reaper latency problem

gordyjamz · 06-28-2009, 08:20 PM

I am having an issue with the latency when trying to record. When I speak into the mic, i can see the track signal light up on screen instantly, but then the master signal is almost a full second behind it. I'm running 6 gigs of ram and a 2.66 ghtz quad core processor. I am also using the latest version of asio4all. I've been using sonar, but thought I'd give reaper a try, so pretty new with using this DAW. Is there some kind of settings to use to minimize this? If not, this software seems pretty worthless to track with.

moliere · 06-28-2009, 09:45 PM

I get sub 2ms latency with my system and reaper (in some circumstances, i tend to track around 5ms), so be assured that this is a setup issue/sound card issue.

What hardware (audio) are you running? what have you set your ASIO buffers to? do you have any plugins on the track (or on the master) and what are they?

gordyjamz · 06-29-2009, 04:01 PM

I am running Realtek HD 7.1 Surround audio card. I have attached images of my buffering settings. As far as plugins, its worse with plugins (close to a second real time) either on the track or on the master or both. It still happens noticeably (about a half second or a bit less real time) without any plugins at all. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

moliere · 06-29-2009, 04:08 PM

okay, well with that audio card, I can only suggest making the buffer smaller by increments and experimenting with the 'latency compensation' sliders (ie turn them down to 0). I don't use ASIO4all, so can't be more specific.

gordyjamz · 06-29-2009, 04:09 PM

I just realized that i posted the image for my realtek buffer settings through asio4 all here is an image of the settings through asio for asio4 all. Sorry. thanks

Ollie · 06-29-2009, 04:11 PM

No surprise, your ASIO4ALL settings are totally off. Try this instead:

gordyjamz · 06-29-2009, 04:16 PM

nope, sorry stein, just tried what you suggested, no difference at all. Track is instant, master still lagging.

Ollie · 06-29-2009, 04:21 PM

Are you having any latency introducing plugins (linear phase EQ, read-ahead compressor/limiter, etc) on the master? Or a convolution reverb on a rec armed track? What is the "USB audio codec" device? An USB mic? USB speakers?

gordyjamz · 06-29-2009, 04:23 PM

If reaper is worthless for tracking, thats fine, I just wanted to know if there was some settings that can fix this problem. Like I said, I've been using sonar with no problems with latency. Also, I have used Vegas for voice overs with video and experience no problems at all with latency while using the same setup and soundcard. Maybe reaper needs to work on compatibility with asio4all?

gordyjamz · 06-29-2009, 04:24 PM

The usb audio codec device is a Peavey PV-10 Mixer

gordyjamz · 06-29-2009, 04:29 PM

Stein, as far as plugs, i have disabled and deleted them from the master and track, and I am still experiencing about a half second latency (i.e. say "test" into the mic, while watching the meters. Track meter is instant, master is a half second behind, in both meter and sound.).

Ollie · 06-29-2009, 05:13 PM

Ok, I'm thoroughly puzzled. According to its manual on the Peavey site, the PV-10/14 doesn't have USB at all. But that also means the mixer can't be the culprit.

Since many people here (and me) are using Reaper with ASIO4ALL, it obviously works. Looks like we need some more specs and what is wired to what.

The unknown USB device may still be the problem, if it's not the mixer and you're not using another USB audio device it might just be your webcam mic or similar. You can (temporarily) disable it in ASIO4ALL to check.

gordyjamz · 06-29-2009, 05:25 PM

Thank you Stein, I appreciate you taking the time to help. I currently do not have any webcams or mics hooked up to the computer other than the mic plugged in through the peavey mixer. The peavey mixer IS usb, thats how I have it hooked to the the computer. Didn't come with any drivers or software, just plug and play. Windows recognized it as the Usb audio device. This still doesn't explain why I would get an instant response in the track meter and a lag to the master. It's got to be a setting in reaper that I'm missing. Maybe someone from cockos can actually give me some advice here? Anyways thanks again, stein, I really do appreciate the help.

Lokasenna · 06-29-2009, 05:34 PM

Two questions:

1. Do you have any other DAW software, even a demo, that works without this issue? That would tell us if it's specific to Reaper and/or your settings.

2. Can you post a screenshot of the Recording preferences page? There are a couple of latency compensation options in there, which might be getting in the way, though I'm pretty sure it isn't them.

karbomusic · 06-29-2009, 05:34 PM

What audio device details are listed in the top right of the TCP menu bar (Arrange Screen). Just under the minimize button?

Karbo

gordyjamz · 06-29-2009, 06:11 PM

Lokasenna
1. Do you have any other DAW software, even a demo, that works without this issue? That would tell us if it's specific to Reaper and/or your settings.

Yes, Sonar, and Vegas have worked fine in the past without any issues.

2. Can you post a screenshot of the Recording preferences page? There are a couple of latency compensation options in there, which might be getting in the way, though I'm pretty sure it isn't them.

See recordingopts.jpg below

karbomusic
What audio device details are listed in the top right of the TCP menu bar (Arrange Screen). Just under the minimize button?

See device.jpg below

gordyjamz · 07-01-2009, 03:41 PM

Ok, so I've played around with the settings, and the best latency I can get is 39ms with plugs, 16ms without, still not like sonar or vegas. Looks like reaper techs have some work to do, for comparison. It's the old cliche you get what you pay for, I guess. Thanks for the help anyways guys, I'll stick to what I got. Cheers. Gordy.

Lokasenna · 07-01-2009, 05:38 PM

Before you leave with the wrong idea, let me say it again - this is not a general issue with Reaper. This appears to be a problem with your particular hardware, setup, settings, and Reaper.

It would be just as inaccurate to say "Reaper still has some work to do... you get what you pay for" as if I were to take a friend's issues getting Cubase to play nicely with his audio interface and conclude that Cubase is complete garbage that doesn't deserve the label "Pro".

Computers are finicky things, and it's impossible for programmers to make sure their software is 100%-bug-free on every system out there. Why? Because there are millions of unique systems out there. Even two computers sold as the same model will frequently have different brands of RAM inside them because the manufacturer has a bunch of different brands of 1GB memory sitting around.

Back in the days of DOS, I literally couldn't find a computer that would run several of my games even though they all met the specs listed on the box. To this day, I have no idea what the problem was.

Anyway, I don't have a clue what your issue might be. Since it's obviously an obscure problem (in that none of us have a clue where to look, so far), I'd suggest posting it as a Bug in the "Track Bugs/Feature Requests" thingy up top. That is, I gather, what it's there for.

Good luck.

Ollie · 07-01-2009, 05:47 PM

+1,000 on what you said, Loksenna but...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lokasenna

Since it's obviously an obscure problem (in that none of us have a clue where to look, so far), I'd suggest posting it as a Bug in the "Track Bugs/Feature Requests" thingy up top. That is, I gather, what it's there for.

This is exactly what the issue tracker is not there for. It's there for posting and tracking consolidated and reliably reproducible bugs within Reaper and not the place to check whether or not it's a bug at all or maybe a problem with a specific computer like this case. That's what the Bug Reports forum is there for - we are supposed to check these things and lay out meaningful bug reports for the tracker there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordyjamz

The peavey mixer IS usb, thats how I have it hooked to the the computer.

Ah I looked for the PV-10 manual and not the PV-10 USB manual. In this case, the problem might be ASIO4ALL - the Peavey apparently doesn't come with an ASIO driver and ASIO4ALL might have the wrong settings or problems with its generic USB audio driver. I can't imagine what though since it apparently works and if you turned off the "latency compensation" and especially the "buffer offset" (both responsible for lots of additional latency), there's almost no way to end up with this kind of latency you report.

karbomusic · 07-01-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Track meter is instant, master is a half second behind

I didn't notice if you had tried creating a new default project with a single default track (zero effects loaded anywhere in reaper) and still the same problem? Track meter on time and master later sounds suspiciously familiar.

Karbo

dub3000 · 07-01-2009, 06:48 PM

in case it hasn't come up yet in this thread, the bottom left of the fx chain window shows latency introduced by plugins, and the top-right of the main window shows latency introduced by reaper.

sounds like you have ozone on your master bus or something introducing loads of latency. try disabling all plugins and seeing what happens.

gordyjamz · 07-02-2009, 03:50 PM

Thanks for sticking around guys. I have 16ms latency with a new project before I even insert a track to get started, so plugins are not the culprit. Although, I suspect, adding plugs would bring a whole new ball of dung into the picture LOL. I have asio4all latency compensations set at zero, no buffer offsets. This did make an improvement from when I first started this thread. I cannot go lower than 512 samples on ASIO buffer size on asio4all without introducing annoying pops and crackles to the input signal. I suppose I could deal with slight hesitation/echo that 16ms brings while tracking, but I could be using Vegas which gives me 8ms, which is barely noticeable, even with multiple tracks and a few plugs. I will say that Reaper does look promising, but maybe a few updates from being great?

Fritz · 07-02-2009, 04:08 PM

edit post after testing again

You should do a loopback test with centrance to test the actual latency of your system. Myself with vegas 4.0 the latency is identical to reaper. My asio configuration window reports it as 5ms, while reaper reports it as around 8ms, with my firewire interface set at 64 samples. The actual latency is 10ms as I am using an external converter through the adat interface on the firewire box. This is as reported by centrance. My latency in reaper is the same as reported in centrace

http://www.centrance.com/products/ltu/

Ollie · 07-02-2009, 04:41 PM

+1 on what Fritz said, plus

- did you run the DPC latency checker (http://www.thesycon.de/dpclat/dpclat.exe) yet? (Don't confuse "latency" with "audio latency" here, DPClat.exe checks the realtime capability of your system.)

- can you also post a screenshot of your prefs->audio->buffering settings and related to this, some detailed system specs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordyjamz

I will say that Reaper does look promising, but maybe a few updates from being great?

I really want to keep on ignoring this.

There are certainly hundreds of people running Reaper with ASIO4ALL instead of a real native ASIO driver and professional hardware attached. Their mileage varies depending on the soundchip/driver ASIO4ALL has to cope with but in general, the problem has never been on the host side AFAIK (you will find people with ASIO4ALL related problems on every host's forums) and the results are great for many (running 256spls /6.5ms here all the way up to 100% CPU load). Like Loksanna indicated, there is no such thing as "runs on every computer with every driver and every hardware attached equally good" in the DAW world.

dub3000 · 07-02-2009, 04:46 PM

syncronous fx multiprocessing on my machine gives me bad crackles, try turning that off. also push the anticipative rendering back up to 200ms.

gordyjamz · 07-02-2009, 06:09 PM

OK Here goes:

Fritz, I tried centrance, and it kept telling me it could not measure the latency. I tried hooking the cables like it states in help, but no dice.

Stein,

Quote:

- did you run the DPC latency checker (http://www.thesycon.de/dpclat/dpclat.exe) yet? (Don't confuse "latency" with "audio latency" here, DPClat.exe checks the realtime capability of your system.)

see DPC.jpg below

Quote:

- can you also post a screenshot of your prefs->audio->buffering settings and related to this, some detailed system specs?

see buffering2.jpg below

As far as specs, I am running an HP m9340f computer, Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit, Intel Core2 Quad CPU Q6700 2.66 Ghtz, 6 GB Ram, Realtek High Definition 7.1 surround audio card, Peavey Pv-10 USB, Asio4all ver. 2.9, Reaper ver. 3, if there's more you need, let me know.

Thanks again...Gordy

Ollie · 07-02-2009, 06:19 PM

You have "Synchronous FX multiprocessing" checked and "Anticipative FX processing" unchecked. It should be vice versa or both checked (you gotta test what works better). This could take care of the crackling issues already. Your DPC latency looks ok so far. Have you ever tried disabling the onboard audio chip (just to check if that helps)?

gordyjamz · 07-03-2009, 06:01 PM

Yeah, I tried messing with the processing settings before to no avail. I tried disabling the realtek card, also, still showing (and hearing) 16ms latency. Tonight, I just recorded some voiceovers in vegas (video project), with the same peavey usb mixer and no prob, still 8ms latency there, even with a compression plug on the track.

ieso · 07-03-2009, 06:56 PM

It's not a reaper problem

realtek?

peavy usb mixer?

asio4all?

"I guess you get what you pay for"? The irony is so thick you could cut it with a chain saw

I'm getting 0.7 ms latency with a professional quality sound card.