Old 02-08-2012, 05:58 AM   #1
Nixon
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Default Item FX Sends

Coming from Samplitude i was very glad to see Take FX in Reaper, now I am wondering if we can extend the workflow with items.


First of all I'd like to call the existing
Take FX = Item FX inserts
because for me it makes more sense to call them this way when talking about item FX sends


What is it:

Item FX sends are for me co-existent to item FX inserts (which reaper has right now). With item FX sends we could send various items to the same or different instance of a reverb, delay or anything you can put on a normal track. It's the same thing than having track inserts and sends but on an item level (but here our item sends are routed to a track housing a plugin)

Examples:

Imagine we have a CPU hungry instance of Altiverb, we work on an item based approach and we cannot afford to load new instances of Altiverb as new item fx inserts (as we wouldn't do on a track approach) we want to do several crossfades between objects to have a cool wet dry ratio.

look how Kraznet, a very active Samplitude and Sequoia guy is using item FX sends in the beginning (here items are called objects ):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjRPH..._Da12UzWfeEMdy

This all is on an item level and can be impressive fast.

Advantages:

This will keep our CPU low, and can be a really quick way to put an send on a single item.

Where to put:

I would put that feature somewhere in the Media Item Properties besides the take FX

Routing:

I think the routing could be better than in Samplitude. If we could see the the receives of the items in the track I/O settings (the track housing our plugin(s) we want to send to) like the normal track receives we have an mighty way of handling things.


Who would use it:

It think this is mostly for Sound Designers, Game Soundies, but will also find place in normal mixing situations as in various situations this is faster than automation curves. (instead of automation we can do a crossfade).


I haven't put it in the issue tracker, just want to hear what you think about it and how we can archive it in the smoothest way. And I have to admit that all this "take fx" "item fx inserts" vocabulary can be confusing but don't judge me too hard

I have asked about this feature before:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...d=1#post900855

Here we go, open for discussion:


Edit: 04-22-2012 Meanwhile I created an fr in the issue tracker at http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=4106

Last edited by Nixon; 04-22-2012 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:02 AM   #2
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Great FR and glad someone else is bringing this idea back again on the table as I did few years back. Hope fully Dev will take a close look at this and integrat it a la Reaper Way, would be very helpful and effective.

+1+1+1+1+1+1trillions YES
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:12 AM   #3
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Right before someone post "put your item in a new track" I'll say it: that's not efficient when you have several FXs in your track which you'd have to duplicate in this case.

A mega +1 on this. One of my most coveted requests since I started using REAPER.
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Old 02-08-2012, 09:27 AM   #4
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yes, yes, yes, yes
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:05 AM   #5
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what do you think ? Should I make a request in the issue tracker? i wonder if there are more who would use this feature.
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Old 03-12-2012, 04:22 AM   #6
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It would get plenty of use.

This would increase CPU use of course if it's automatic for all other tracks, i.e. available automatically.

I'm actually in favour of having this be available only if the user has created a send, and thus the item-send becomes a sort of additional layer of send automation on top of the existing envelope.

Thus, creating sends must be available in the item properties themselves for this to be as quick an operation as possible. Any send created this way must be "-inf dB" by default for the underlying envelope it creates, and a default value specfied in the preferences for the item-send level(which is kind of a trim in this case).

You may wish to include these actions in your request :
Coalesce item send level in to send envelope
This appears in the context menu of the MCP insert entry, FX Chain entry, Envelope Control Panel and in a context menu of the item send in the item properties perhaps.

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Old 04-02-2012, 11:52 AM   #7
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The "Who would use it?" is wrong. This is how I was shown how to work, years ago before unlimited plugs. If your control room only had 3 reverbs, you used 3 reverbs. Send level might be different for each Send. I thought this was the way we were SUPPOSED to work lol. I dont think the user group would be limited in any way. Tons of people should be using sends this way.. regardless if its an item or track.

In Samp it is the ONLY way I work. I dont thorw plugs on a track because I can. 12 instances of the same plug? For what? Crate a new track just for an item? For what? T

This single feature is the biggest reason I have not switched to Reaper. I dont like wasting resources. I have been waiting forEVER for this to be implemented, and am bout to pull the trigger on an upgrade to Samp12, in a few days.. if this is not on the Reaper Radar.

To make it even more simple, just give an item all the same features / options that aa track has, and be done. (Like in Samp) Problem solved, and many Samp users will probably consider making the swtich.

Last edited by jrides; 04-02-2012 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 04-21-2012, 06:41 AM   #8
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Well, finally : http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=4106

feel free to vote
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:54 AM   #9
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Voted!
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:20 PM   #10
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+1 from KZ
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Old 05-04-2012, 04:27 AM   #11
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yeah, +1
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Old 05-04-2012, 05:59 AM   #12
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Surprised only 12 people have voted! +1 from me.
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Old 05-27-2012, 09:09 AM   #13
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+1 , it would be great !
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Old 06-26-2012, 09:37 AM   #14
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+1, it was supposed to be in 4.22? did I miss it?
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Old 07-11-2012, 12:01 AM   #15
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i suggested it in 4.22
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:14 AM   #16
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If this is also introduced for MIDI and hardware MIDI out sends per item (so, basically just copying the I/O window that's currently at track level, to be used at item level!), this would be mind-bogglingly powerful. We could have something like Patterns in FL, basically, this way!

Voted!
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:31 AM   #17
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We could have a new item button to help us with this! See mockup:



Easy, no?
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Old 06-26-2013, 11:12 AM   #18
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BTW question (Mercado, feel free to answer): would this item I/O basically ignore the track I/O routing and use item I/O routing instead, for the duration of that item? I feel that this is the most sensible way to go about this.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:26 AM   #19
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If you disable anticipative FX the receive track, and probably Media buffering on the sending track, you can use JS: Loser gmemSend and gmemRecieve. (you may have to manually delay compensate one of the tracks)


I've been working with gmem on a number of JS plugs. I'll see if I can put together a JS that can handle this better than the Loser one (adjustable PDC, and maybe I can figure a way to let it work well with anticipative FX)

@Evil Dragon
for MIDI or Audio hardware outs, I think you can just use ReaInsert. How well that works in practice, I couldn't say.
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:40 AM   #20
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hmmm... I'm traveling at the moment, so can't really test this.

using Loser gmemSend/Receive it might be better to send item to item as far as sample accuracy and avoiding problems with PDC.

So basically your reverb track will contain an empty item, and the reverb will be in that item/take. (Loser/gmemReceive before the verb.)

You can test for sample accuracy with a null test. (In my tests, track FX to track FX, the gmemSend and Receive do null if anticipative fx is off for the track)
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:47 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James HE View Post
@Evil Dragon
for MIDI or Audio hardware outs, I think you can just use ReaInsert. How well that works in practice, I couldn't say.
Too complicated + ReaInsert is bugged.


This would be much better - I/O button on item, which would basically override track I/O if anything is set in item I/O. Just makes sense.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:58 AM   #22
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Did manage to do a little test re: JS gmem

item to item, you still need to disable media buffering on the tracks those items are on, but once you do, the send and receive will null when you reverse the polarity of one of the tracks. (it might be possible to work around this via compensation)

this is preferable to having to disable anticipative FX.

An "Empty Item" does not work oddly enough, you can't put take FX on it. An empty MIDI item does work though. Make it the full length of the timeline, or use it's boundaries as on/of. This has interesting implications, having an item as a container for FX sends seems useful. I can't recall if item crossfades are pre or post take FX. if they are pre, well, you could do some interesting things crossfading receive items together. Not certain where take volume pitch and pan fall into the chain either. Crossfading sending items will certainly have an effect.

OK so before I get another "too complicated" response, let me just say. use your creative brain. If you find something interesting to do with this information, use it. If not, it doesn't hurt to know.

If items sends are a FR you think you really need, it might be worth it to set this up via gmemSend/Receive on a project, just to see what your workflow might be like and to make suggestions for the FR.
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Old 06-27-2013, 12:15 PM   #23
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Actually I'm way more interested in MIDI/hardware MIDI out per-item sends than audio, because this will enable Reaper to have pattern-like structures like FL Studio has, where each item could point to any arbitrary track that holds whatever plugin we want (pointing to different instances of Kontakt, for example).

The best thing about this is that the item would not be limited to the track it's located on - item I/O would override any I/O already present on whatever track that item is found.
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Old 06-27-2013, 12:25 PM   #24
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What a great FR!


Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
BTW question (Mercado, feel free to answer): would this item I/O basically ignore the track I/O routing and use item I/O routing instead, for the duration of that item? I feel that this is the most sensible way to go about this.
I'd say so. The routing for this item would be set on top of the track's routing and switch to its setting, the track's routing would (or should) be ignored or maybe in the I/O window there could be a button or fader to choose or set where the signal goes.

I just now saw the thread and beginning to think about the possibilities seems to be like opening a can of worms (in a most positive way).

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Old 06-27-2013, 12:41 PM   #25
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For an "Aux" send, you wouldn't want the item/take I/o to override the track routing. So a switch would need to be there. i.e like the track master/parent send.

This does open a can of worms I think as far as pdc is concerned. each send path would potentially have to have a different pdc.
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Old 06-27-2013, 12:50 PM   #26
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I definitely WOULD want it to override track I/O, for reasons stated above. So yeah, a switch would be necessary.
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:27 PM   #27
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+1000 to every kind of routing per item, both audio and MIDI.
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Old 12-16-2013, 04:42 PM   #28
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Voted +1
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:40 AM   #29
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Has this been implemented yet? Its probably the feature that keeps me from using Reaper as my main DAW, as opposed to random utility DAW. (Batch convert, quick gear shootouts. quickly auditioning stems, etc) I don't even bother to update Reaper, and havent in at least a year, now that it gets so little use.

It really is the most efficient way to utilize resources. Studio One is dragging their feet on this as well so I am considering going back to Samplitude, and moving on from Reaper and S1.
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Old 03-03-2014, 02:22 PM   #30
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A few pres ago, the devs added the ability to use a multi in/out plugin on a mono or stereo item and actually use the item's plugin fx as a way to send it to other channels rather than just 1 and 2

Using some of the cool JS routing plugins you can now have certain items come out of say 3 and 4 instead which could be then sent to a reverb etc on the main channel.

You can also use this for doing things like vocoders only on one track.

Not exactly what was asked for but works all the same
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Old 03-08-2014, 11:25 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
We could have a new item button to help us with this! See mockup:



Easy, no?
Wow, I could really use exactly THIS right now.

Hope this becomes a reality soon!
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Old 03-08-2014, 01:04 PM   #32
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Hell, yes!
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Old 03-10-2014, 04:27 PM   #33
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i updated the request with evil dragon's mockup, hope this gets some attention of the devs. Besides thanks for voting
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Old 09-22-2014, 05:23 AM   #34
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Yes please! after this i could move all my post work to reaper. could finally drop sequoia.
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Old 10-19-2015, 07:20 AM   #35
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anything on this, has this been ignored?
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Old 10-19-2015, 08:37 AM   #36
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Looks like.
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Old 12-22-2015, 11:04 AM   #37
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We need ITEM SENDS!!

Why no any answer from 2012?
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Old 12-24-2015, 04:34 AM   #38
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I guess tracks are special because they are handled by the scheduler which does the multi-processing capabilities in Reaper. It's not as easy as it looks, which is why even workarounds like that JS mentioned loses latency compensation etc. These JS 'hacks' don't work properly not because they are JS hacks but because of the underlying logic.

Basically, you can't expect the same thing from items as from tracks unless they rewrite the audio processing core, I think.
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Old 12-24-2015, 09:15 AM   #39
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Another one I missed! Voted today.
And yes lets hope it gets the devs attention.
Some of these little things could make so much difference to usability.
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Old 02-23-2016, 01:17 AM   #40
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Bump. I don't necessary think of this as "FX Sends" but as general item-based audio sends. Route your item signal to any tracks you'd like!

This one would complete the suite of features on items in Reaper. I really miss this from Samplitude – like item-based FX & automation, it opens up whole new worlds for routing & mix creation.

It could be added as a simple dropdown on the right-click menu, or as a one-line matrix with the take on the left and all the send options in a row of boxes.

Last edited by MonkeyBars; 02-24-2016 at 01:10 AM.
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