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Old 03-15-2007, 03:39 PM   #1
d. gauss
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Default weird looping /grid behavior

can anyone else duplicate this?

-put an audio file into a track.
-set the grid to read bar/beats.
-tempo 66 bpm
-zoom in ALL the way and split the audio file EXACTLY on the start of bar 2.
-delete the event to the right of the split
-with zoom ALL the way in, copy the remaining event and paste it at the EXACT start of bar 2
-repeat this paste a ton of times. i.e. hit CTRl + V 50 or 60 times.
-now notice where the cursor and the end edge of the event are.

are they still EXACTLY on the bar line? or are they past it and getting a bit further with every paste?

Last edited by d. gauss; 03-16-2007 at 04:58 AM.
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Old 03-16-2007, 04:34 AM   #2
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bump. no one else?

i also found similar results in grabbing the end of a 1 bar audio event to repeat as a loop. over a large number of repeats, they don't match the grid and the timing will be off.
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Old 03-16-2007, 05:06 AM   #3
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confirmed. bug.


FIXED

Last edited by Dstruct; 07-17-2007 at 02:57 AM.
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Old 03-17-2007, 06:42 AM   #4
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hopefully this will be corrected as it makes timing a bit of a mess over the course of a song.
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Old 03-22-2007, 05:44 AM   #5
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bump. pretty nasty thing.
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Old 03-22-2007, 06:09 AM   #6
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This is the end of the third loop of a 24bar section i split out and looped...

[IMG]http://img264.**************/img264/6659/gluegt8.png[/IMG]

Its only a little bit but MIDI items dont do this.
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Old 03-22-2007, 06:27 AM   #7
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Does this still happed if you glue the event after you've cut it?

MC
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Old 03-22-2007, 06:43 AM   #8
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Yeah...the pic is of "glued" wav files. Takes and auto-punch is the same.

If import a wav or just record normally and do "copy loop"...it works fine.

Someone suggested that "auto adjust for recording latency" was involved i think???
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Old 03-22-2007, 02:40 PM   #9
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i dunno. i'm having LOTS of weird issues with this. right now, for me, there is no way to have a 1 bar drum loop be bar line correct throughout the length of a song. perhaps in the current math, the width of the cursor isn't taken into account in the pasting/looping?
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Old 03-22-2007, 05:07 PM   #10
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I've noticed this too and it really bugs me. I'd like to be able to paste loops and chunks of audio WITHOUT having to always check for accuracy. Don't know why Reaper does this.

Pasting loops end to end like this doesn't seem to be an issue when using minutes:seconds as the ruler.
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Old 03-22-2007, 10:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basement-music View Post
Pasting loops end to end like this doesn't seem to be an issue when using minutes:seconds as the ruler.
Tried that, doesnt work here...
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Old 03-23-2007, 06:43 AM   #12
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i hope we get to the bottom of this soon 'cause it is quite serious if you use any looping in your recording.
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Old 03-25-2007, 07:21 PM   #13
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bump so this isn't forgotten.
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Old 03-25-2007, 10:21 PM   #14
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OK, this is working fo me now....the problem seemed to be that the original item was just longer than the bar, so if you split the right edge of the item and zoom in, there was a very tiny item left over, and it was pasting to the right edge of that small item instead of the bar line.

...so, if you split at the right edge then press delete(cause it leaves the items on the right selected), then do copy/paste it works, here at least.

Heres some pics of a 16 bar item that i split out from a longer file then copy/pasted out for over an hour...spot on.

[IMG]http://img182.**************/img182/1000/fullca6.png[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img176.**************/img176/8500/edgejv5.png[/IMG]
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Old 03-26-2007, 08:07 AM   #15
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not working here.

see picture.

http://www.betteroffdead.com/loopnowerky.png

also here's the project file (under 3 megs)
first track is segment intended to be looped.
2nd track is a rendering of that loop via stem.
3rd track is a rendering of that loop via master.

http://www.betteroffdead.com/renderedloop2wav.zip
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Old 03-26-2007, 02:26 PM   #16
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OK, checked out your project, your right, the loops dont sync...the problem appears to be tempo based...if you change it from 66.256 to 67 and copy/paste, it works.
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Old 03-26-2007, 02:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billoon View Post
OK, checked out your project, your right, the loops dont sync...the problem appears to be tempo based...if you change it from 66.256 to 67 and copy/paste, it works.
yeah, and the ONLY reason the tempo is at 66.256 is to align the grid EXACTLY to the loop point.
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Old 03-26-2007, 03:11 PM   #18
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OK, well id suggest setting the tempo to 66(or whatever is best), then alt-drag to stretch the item to fit the bar, then copy/paste...works here.
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Old 03-26-2007, 03:29 PM   #19
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nope. not here.
-changed tempo to 67bpm.
-alt+drag 1st track item to fit bars. (playback rate now shows 1.011 for the item)
-copy item and paste CTL+V repeatedly.
-by measure 71 they are getting further n further off grid.

also. render mix of the above loop and choose add to tracks. the rendered loop is longer than the original.
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Old 03-26-2007, 03:57 PM   #20
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Yeah, sorry..i didnt zoom in far enough to see it. I cant get this to work either so hopefully Justin will take a look at your project or point us in the right direction.

One thing could be the loop doesnt start at 0:00 in the source???
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Old 03-26-2007, 05:03 PM   #21
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OK, ive got a workaround for now...i opened a copy of the item in Goldwave and saved it as a new file, then imported that file into an empty project with the tempo set to 96, copy/pasted, zoomed in...all good...then it looks like you can change the project tempo and it stays in sync.

Hope ive got it right this time...

Heres the file i made...

https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/15681/T...20copy%204.zip

And heres the project file...

Its not perfect but it seems to work.

Last edited by Billoon; 09-24-2008 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 03-27-2007, 09:01 AM   #22
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hmmm, sorry to keep bitchin', but i'm out of ideas on this one. copy the loop event multiple times and the length is off. render it and the length is off differently. render it as a stem and the length is off even more different! glue it to a copy of itself that looks aligned, and the resultant length is off. VERY weird.

looks like i'm back to nuendo for this project.

i can't believe no one else is at a standstill on this. if a loop isn't in time to the grid over the course of the tune, the grid is mostly useless.

anybody else?
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Old 03-27-2007, 09:12 AM   #23
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yeah fix needed.
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Old 04-01-2007, 07:23 AM   #24
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BUMP. Justin?
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Old 04-01-2007, 08:04 AM   #25
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Are we talking about the same thing?

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7687.
-------------
And there is also the oddity of the way clips are split if the recording start in the middle of a loop area. Very weird, but can easily be worked around by starting loop recordings before or at the start of the loop.

But not recording the end of the clips in a looped area is a Major problem.

Thank you
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Old 04-01-2007, 08:06 AM   #26
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Yeah, seems to be a related issue.
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Old 04-01-2007, 10:03 PM   #27
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has justin weighed in on this at all? just curious where it stands.
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Old 04-01-2007, 10:08 PM   #28
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1.835 may fix the OP's issue
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Old 04-01-2007, 11:01 PM   #29
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still not fixed in 1.835!
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:03 AM   #30
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OK, i managed to get this to work...

Theres a little issue in the original project(renderedloop2wav.zip) that has to be fixed then it works in v1.835...here anyway.

In Tk1, the file isnt exactly 1 bar, if you grab the right edge and drag it so its exactly 1 bar...then copy/paste, it syncs.

The other 2 tracks just need to be trimmed to 1 bar, then copy/pasted and they sync as well.


Can someone confirm this please, ta.
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Old 04-02-2007, 07:28 AM   #31
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indeed. really seems to be fixed. maybe some mistake happened in my test.
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Old 04-02-2007, 08:40 AM   #32
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not so fast kids. while the copy/paste seems to be on the money now(using track 1 'original loop')... the rendering is still off.

try this:

render the master mix of the project with only track 1 active and the loop selection length of 1 bar. check the option to add new file to project.

zoom in and you'll see that the new file is LONGER than 1 bar.
same thing happens if you render it as a stem. the new files are 23ms longer than the original.

can you confirm?
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Old 04-02-2007, 08:58 AM   #33
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yeah, confirmed. that's bad!
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Old 04-02-2007, 10:19 AM   #34
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So, in a general manner, there seem to have weird stuff with loops and lenghts (as recorded lanes/takes have also a loop issue).
It is important to be able to rely on loops and to be confident into lenghts. Mainly if the DAW doesn't have destructive editing and that you make a lot of loop rendering.
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Old 04-02-2007, 10:25 AM   #35
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yeah! maybe it's because the engine isn't seamless yet?
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Old 04-02-2007, 10:36 AM   #36
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I'm trying to follow this thread as I often use repeated loops of audio (samples of snippets of my recordings) in songs.

Are we saying that you can't set the snap to on, resize an audio part down to a perfect bar... snap it to the bar, duplicate that part over and over again without it changing length? Is the audio length actually changing or is the grid off somehow?

But yeah, they need to fit within the 2-4-8 bar or whatever space perfectly or it all goes to hell.

Last edited by Lawrence; 04-02-2007 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 04-02-2007, 11:09 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
I'm trying to follow this thread as I often use repeated loops of audio (samples of snippets of my recordings) in songs.

Are we saying that you can't set the snap to on, resize an audio part down to a perfect bar... snap it to the bar, duplicate that part over and over again without it changing length? Is the audio length actually changing or is the grid off somehow?
this is fixed in 1.835!

but: rendered files (loop-selection) don't match properly (they are bit too long). so you "can't" loop them (via drag) immediately.
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Old 04-02-2007, 11:18 AM   #38
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The more I think about Loop Recording, the more I think the recording should be one long file.
Make everything look the same in the Interface. The Takes are handled by the program automaticly non-destructively splitting the Long Recording and arranging them vertically in the Loop area.

This would mean Zero lost data at the end of each take.
If the clips are set to loop, the program automaticly applies an auto-glue in the background. they would loop at the expected length.

A side benefit of one Long Recoding, is if the results of Takes were Not set to be Loop Clips, just normal clips, would be the Takes could be stretched revealing the next or previous take, as they are really just a region of the Long recording.
Example, This would make it possible to place Take 2 after Take 4. Then drag the ends of the takes to a more perfect cross over point, and crossfade would be possible.

Hope I made that understandable.

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Old 04-02-2007, 11:52 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xackley View Post
The more I think about Loop Recording, the more I think the recording should be one long file.
...
Like this ?


(a long file, but only the 2 first bars are looped, adn the start point is at bar 1)



(the same long file, but the start point is at bar 4, and the loop points are bar 3 to 5)
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Old 04-02-2007, 12:16 PM   #40
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IMO recording takes in loop-mode as one file should be optional. writing each take to a new file though has to be fixed. so if you place each take after the other and then glue them => this would give the same result as writing all takes into just one file.
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