Mastering to < -12 db

[HookedonSonics]

Hi all,
First post on this forum. I started using reaper around a year ago and I am by no means a professional but I do feel like I have a pretty decent understanding of how Reaper works and I love making music so here I am. I come on here quite a bit and really appreciate the people and community.

I have been working on a solo project for quite sometime and finally I have a song I am not entirely ashamed of letting people listen to. My gf has been letting me drive her car as of late. It's been many many years since I listened to the radio, and last time I did it really sucked but there is a new indie/college channel where I live that I would love to submit my song. The only problem is they require all tracks capped at -12db for many reasons.

Well, what with learning how to use the DAW and midi etc. this never occurred to me. I was more just concentrating on not clipping in reaper and making sure my music could play decently on other devices.

Also, I have just been planning to create an LP and having somebody master the whole thing as from what I can tell one's ear gets lost somewhere along the way. But for now I just think it would be really cool to hear my song on the radio.

I know how to render the track and drop it back in as a wav. From here I am sure I can get this thing under -12db. Can I get it sounding as good I am not sure. I would love to hear any advice on this if you are willing to share.

My questions are as follows:

1) Moving forward for me. Should I be capping tracks(using some type of limiter) or compressing or eq'ing from the master track from the outset of my projects so I don't have to deal with this issue further down the line?

2) Are there other common thresholds(as in the -12db) in different industries that I should be aware of?

3) When the time comes to have all of my music mastered will I just be sending wav.'s or should I look for somebody who works in reaper so I can send the reaper projects?

Feel free to have a listen. If you have gotten to this point thanks for reading and thanks for your patience.

https://soundcloud.com/radiator-3/motel-lobby

[Fex]

Originally Posted by HookedonSonics

I know how to render the track and drop it back in as a wav. From here I am sure I can get this thing under -12db. Can I get it sounding as good I am not sure. I would love to hear any advice on this if you are willing to share.

I would advise just pulling the master volume back (or selecting all tracks with a send to the master track, and pulling those tracks' levels back in unison), and changing nothing else. The result should sound much the same as before, when it is played so as to sound equally loud.

Originally Posted by HookedonSonics

Moving forward for me. Should I be capping tracks(using some type of limiter) or compressing or eq'ing from the master track from the outset of my projects so I don't have to deal with this issue further down the line?

I don't think you should be limiting, compressing or EQing just to achieve this, especially if you're not sure what you're doing. Use these tools, if you wish, to get the mix you want, with the dynamics you want. Tailoring the volume level of the mix afterwards for a specific user (eg your radio station) really should only be a simple matter of adjusting the level of the mix. Bear in mind that radio stations add their own limiting and compression, so there's a good argument for keeping the mix as 'open' as possible.

Originally Posted by HookedonSonics

Are there other common thresholds(as in the -12db) in different industries that I should be aware of?

The film industry has its own standards.... 48k, -10dB rings a bell, but I could be as wrong as a very wrong thing.

Originally Posted by HookedonSonics

When the time comes to have all of my music mastered will I just be sending wav.'s or should I look for somebody who works in reaper so I can send the reaper projects?

That's a big question. It really depends on the project, how much of it you want to render, how many parameters you would like to be adjustable by the mastering engineer, and how many parameters the engineer would prefer to be able to change. Working with DAW projects directly has definite advantages for some engineers, in terms of creative freedom.... others don't want so much freedom of choice, preferring freedom from choice.

My best advice? Choose a mastering engineer exclusively on the basis of his rate and his previous work. If you like someone's work sufficiently, and trust that he will get the job done, employ him even if he's an impossible ass working with a garbage DAW running on a hamster powered calculator. Tell him what his options are, and then provide him with the source material in his preferred form.

Edit: Oh.... and hi, and welcome to the forums!

[Sambo Rouge]

Soundcloud link not working.

Welcome to Reaper.

[HookedonSonics]

Originally Posted by Sambo Rouge

Soundcloud link not working.

Welcome to Reaper.

No idea why it wouldn't be working, it sends me straight to it when I click on it.

[Fergler]

They are seriously lazy if they expect -12db max peaks. They can't just throw a gain plugin on it to get it where they need? Pathetic.

[HookedonSonics]

Originally Posted by HookedonSonics

Edit: Oh.... and hi, and welcome to the forums!

Thanks! and Thanks for the advice. Pulling back the volume is probably what I'll have to do. I experimented a bit in audacity with their normalizer but my concern with what came out of that and with pulling back the volume so that the whole thing sits under -12 db's is that then the intro volume is so low its almost inaudible, but I guess that's what the volume control is for right? Next time I get a chance I'll toy with this, busy night for me here so it might be a little before I get to it.

[HookedonSonics]

Originally Posted by Fergler

They are seriously lazy if they expect -12db max peaks. They can't just throw a gain plugin on it to get it where they need? Pathetic.

Not to speak on their behalf but for a not for profit submission based radio station, it might be a bit much if they have to start mastering everybody's work just so they can play it. It's the type of station that you could listen for weeks and not hear the same song twice and you'll never hear commercials. I know what your talking about might only take a few minutes but so does a song itself.

[Fex]

Originally Posted by Fergler

They are seriously lazy if they expect -12db max peaks. They can't just throw a gain plugin on it to get it where they need? Pathetic.

I guess they have to deal with a lot of files at a lot of different levels. If they have hoards of artists clamouring for their approval, they get to call the shots.

Originally Posted by HookedonSonics

I experimented a bit in audacity with their normalizer but my concern with what came out of that and with pulling back the volume so that the whole thing sits under -12 db's is that then the intro volume is so low its almost inaudible, but I guess that's what the volume control is for right?

The radio peeps compression might take care of it. However, you might want to consider that people will be listening in less than ideal circumstances.... maybe you should raise the level of that intro just for the radio version?

[ashcat_lt]

Are you sure they're talking about -12dbfs peaks? That's just absurd! I'm guessing that what they want is better than 12dbfs dynamic range, crest factor, whatever. Like, the RMS level should be -12dbfs or less. Might be wrong, but...

[JHughes]

Yes, it is absurd so we must not have all the info.

Every radio station is used to handling CDs, which stay at 0dbfs a lot of the time. I'm not aware of a -12 spec for anything. I'd love to learn about one though!

Also radio stations have all kinds of limiting and processing in the signal chain so something doesn't sound right.

[dub3000]

Originally Posted by ashcat_lt

Are you sure they're talking about -12dbfs peaks? That's just absurd! I'm guessing that what they want is better than 12dbfs dynamic range, crest factor, whatever. Like, the RMS level should be -12dbfs or less. Might be wrong, but...

that was my first thought as well. -12dB RMS is starting to get pretty slammed; -12dB peak would be nonsense, though.

[Sambo Rouge]

Originally Posted by HookedonSonics

No idea why it wouldn't be working, it sends me straight to it when I click on it.

Tried later and link worked.

Interesting song === nice to hear something that is fairly unpredictable and fresh. Nice work.

[HookedonSonics]

Originally Posted by Sambo Rouge

Tried later and link worked.

Interesting song === nice to hear something that is fairly unpredictable and fresh. Nice work.

Thanks!

[HookedonSonics]

Originally Posted by dub3000

that was my first thought as well. -12dB RMS is starting to get pretty slammed; -12dB peak would be nonsense, though.

My apologies. I was totally wrong. They want it leveled at -12db. Does anyone know what this would entail? Sorry to make this thread longer than it has to be.

[hamish]

I also agree it sounds a bit absurd 'levelled to -12 dB', as JHughes says the majority of indy/college bands CD's hit 0dbfs in the first second of the first track and then stay there.

Hate to say this, and you may have just talked to a specially incompetent person, but I heard of apprentice electricians getting sent into the depot to ask for a packet of 300 volts.

[Fergler]

Originally Posted by hamish

I also agree it sounds a bit absurd 'levelled to -12 dB', as JHughes says the majority of indy/college bands CD's hit 0dbfs in the first second of the first track and then stay there.

Hate to say this, and you may have just talked to a specially incompetent person, but I heard of apprentice electricians getting sent into the depot to ask for a packet of 300 volts.

Variety of bolts = volts! Mix and match :P

[ashcat_lt]

There's got to be a misunderstanding somewhere along the line. I wonder if they're not trying to talk about something like LUFS or the K system.

K12 Is (supposed to be) a pretty good standard for broadcast. If the peaks hit 0dbfs, then the RMS sits at -12.