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08-21-2007, 02:54 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,373
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CUE/BIN creation improvements
Okay here is what I got in mind. Use the Region feature to create you CD tracks, fine, but who can you get INDEX 0 markers that way?
Well here is how I think this could be done:
With overlapping regions, like this:
See, e.g. the start of region 2 defines the TRACK 02's INDEX 00, while the end of region 1 defines the TRACK 02's INDEX 01.
Another thing, a option so the gap between regions can be set to become the PREGAP for the following track, would be nice too.
The last thing would be to be able to directly draw in regions in the region lane (and also set markers with one simple click in there), also a faster way to delete them (faster than right click -> delete) would also speed up workflow immensely IMO.
EDIT: A IMO good reference for CUE sheet is here: http://digitalx.org/cuesheetsyntax.php
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08-21-2007, 04:33 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Sydney Oz
Posts: 8,480
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I like your ideas LOSER, regions are such an easy way to set them up.... I'd much prefer this part of Reaper get's some love, so I can do all this in-house. Otherwise I'm going to have to learn Vegas, just for the cd creating (well I suppose I'll need to for video, but I'm not really in need of that yet).
It'd be great if someone could do a full tutorial on the pre-mastering process too, just using Reaper.
+1
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08-21-2007, 06:18 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 1,279
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Yes - Art Evans ReaBurn does this well but its about time Reaper catered for a pro end product seeing how good it is at the rest.
Dare I mention DDP too?
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08-21-2007, 08:44 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 376
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cue/wav as well as cue/bin
And while we're thinking about this - could we have the ability to use a cue/wav combination rather than cue/bin as wav makes much more sense for an audio application.
Forgive me if this has already been implemented but I couldn't see how to do it last time I looked.
Cheers
James.
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08-21-2007, 05:55 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss
It'd be great if someone could do a full tutorial on the pre-mastering process too, just using Reaper.
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I sure would give it a try if you'd be so kind as to send my a file of a mix to be mastered (preferable rock/pop, since it is most common genre). (But don't expect too much, since I'm a horrible explainer ).
P.S. And dude, empty you PM inbox !
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08-22-2007, 04:28 PM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,182
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All ideas: +1 ! I liked them a lot, especially the idea of region lanes, but the "smart" ways of creating indexes is also first class !
Additional thoughts:
+ The quickest method of deleting markers is just drag&drop them off their lane down onto the Arrange area. Old and proved.
+ Also it would be great if one could just click to select markers like any typical item (+shift, +ctrl, double click to rename). It's the most natural way of working with objects.
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08-22-2007, 07:09 PM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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Then the right-click marquee is another good solution. Treat the markers like any item.
A LOT of people also wish to see a marker list window. Selecting markers for deletion would be easy there as well, apart from being able to accurately map out your project. This is paramount for post production, not just CD mastering works or music production.
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08-23-2007, 10:03 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arse end of the earth.
Posts: 2,988
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Id really like to be able to do a complete cd layout in REAPER as well.
Got an idea thats an extention of LOSERs...
>Reigons define the tracks range (index 0 to track end) and track names come from the reigon names.
>Markers define the indexes (ie. first marker within the reigon becomes index 1, second index 2 etc). If there are no markers within the reigon, then the start of the reigon would become index 1.
Heres a pic of an example project...
Track 1 has a "hidden" track before it.
Track 2 has a pregap, a postgap and multiple indexes.
Track 3 has no markers so the start of the reigon defines the index 1 and has a "hidden" track after it.
[IMG]http://img510.**************/img510/6664/cuzs1.png[/IMG]
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08-23-2007, 06:12 PM
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#9
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Mortal
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,654
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I do all my CD layouts in Reaper - well, the edited version of the live stuff I record is the layout, with nothing else required. Markers for track starts, named for CD text, countdown indexes at track ends named "*" (works in ReaBurn), and there you are. But admittedly I don't need other indexes, hidden tracks, etc etc - just normal tracks and normal indexes. And I render as wavpack to save 50% drive space and use Burrrn to burn via ReaBurn.
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08-23-2007, 10:10 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billoon
Id really like to be able to do a complete cd layout in REAPER as well.
Got an idea thats an extention of LOSERs...
>Reigons define the tracks range (index 0 to track end) and track names come from the reigon names.
>Markers define the indexes (ie. first marker within the reigon becomes index 1, second index 2 etc). If there are no markers within the reigon, then the start of the reigon would become index 1.
Heres a pic of an example project...
Track 1 has a "hidden" track before it.
Track 2 has a pregap, a postgap and multiple indexes.
Track 3 has no markers so the start of the reigon defines the index 1 and has a "hidden" track after it.
[IMG]http://img510.**************/img510/6664/cuzs1.png[/IMG]
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I like that even better. (Even though your illustration wasn't as great as mine ).
We could have CD text in the regions and markers as well, but that would make them a bit cluttered. However this won't happen if the marker/region boxes would include more boxes (maybe dedicated CD track regions/markers?) to hold the additional info.
That would then have all features neccesary, right?
Regarding ReaBurn, I have nothing against it, but it just would be sooo much convinient to have it right there in REAPER, don't you agree Art?
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08-23-2007, 10:41 PM
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#11
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Mortal
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,654
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Indeed, it would be nice to have more functions built in (and working in regions as an option would be good) - ReaBurn (via the programs that it front ends) does other stuff which I personally find handy, but then I would, wouldn't I?!
If you are working with a project where the project file in essence is the CD master, then using regions as tracks becomes really an unnecessary step - no need to define the end of a track if that's the same as the beginning of the next. But where you have non-required stuff between the regions then working in regions makes a lot of sense.
I think the dialog would have to ask you whether you wanted tracks by regions or tracks by markers, and there's something to be said for retaining the simple but effective convention that tracks should be regions or markers named #.
So if you chose tracks by regions, the render would contain everything that was within a region only, and regions named # would denote the beginning of a new CD track (thus enabling you to have two or more regions all being part of one track, if you wanted). Indexes could remain any marker within a region that was named "*".
If tracks by markers, the whole project would be rendered as if it were a CD master, with CD tracks beginning at markers named # and indexes being markers named *.
In either case you should be able to specify cue/bin, or cue/file, or cue/files (one file per track, for those wanting to drag individual files into Nero or whatever).
CD text would be anything after the # in the region or marker name.
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08-23-2007, 10:53 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,373
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Art, IMO what you are telling sounds complicated ... anyways I think regions are good because you see on one glance where tracks start and where they end.
Why shouldn't the "#" just be replaced with a "CD index/track" checkbox in the marker/region properties? Plus maybe a special color that indicades whether a marker/region is a CD index/track. Sounds like a good idea? ('Cause that way even people that aren't aware of the "#" can easily create CD tracks/indexes.)
EDIT: The CUE/File(s) thing is also a "must" have IMO.
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08-24-2007, 01:32 AM
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#13
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Mortal
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,654
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I guess I'm thinking in terms of minimum change (to increase likelihood of implementation!) and maximum choice/flexibility (work by ranges or markers according to circumstances and personal workflow). But I certainly agree that dedicated marker and range types would be ideal - together with dedicated actions to drop the kind of marker you needed with one keystroke.
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08-24-2007, 01:35 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans
I guess I'm thinking in terms of minimum change (to increase likelihood of implementation!) [...]
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I'm also for likelihood of implementation, but I'm also for do it right now before redoing it later .
We'll see what Justin's take on this will be...
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08-24-2007, 08:34 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arse end of the earth.
Posts: 2,988
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Yeah, there probably should be a method for including CD Text....maybe all text after a separator in the reigon text (eg. : or ; ) would be CDText???
Couple of other related FRs....
A "cue compatability" check box that would convert spaces to _ in the bin/cue name. eg. "my disc.cue" becomes "my_disc.cue/my_disc.bin"...because some burning apps dont like spaces.
A method for burning bin/cues within reaper so you could mount the cue with eg. DTools to check with a media player before buring using reaper, so you dont have to bother with other software.
Ability for reaper to open cue(bin/cue and wav/cue) files, stair-stepping the tracks in like in the example project pic above or all on one track as seperate items for each track.
Ability to "render all reigons to seperate files" with selectable render format,...so that its possible to easily create a DVD-Audio disc (at eg. 24/48 using other software) with exactly the same format as the bin/cue that reaper renders for CD....or just so you could easily create mp3s/oggs etc. of the disc.
Ability to "create reigons from selected items" for speed/ease of use, if cd has lots of tracks eg. sound-fx discs.
Mentioned elsewhere...ability to render "cues in wav" format.
That should do it.
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08-26-2007, 07:59 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arse end of the earth.
Posts: 2,988
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With Arts permission, ive made a modified version of ReaBurn to allow inclusion of Index 0s in a REAPER created bin/cue. Can also be used to create a cue file from a project file for wav/cue if needed.
Instructions (and source) are included in the zip. Any bugs are mine, not Arts.
...which leads to a simple FR.
>Implement the * as Index 0 to complement the current # as Index 1 functionality and allow render to wav/cue combination.
...which would make this redundant.
Download ReaBurn BinCue.
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01-29-2009, 09:53 AM
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#17
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,676
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billoon
Implement the * as Index 0 to complement the current # as Index 1 functionality and allow render to wav/cue combination.
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That would be enough
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
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01-29-2009, 09:55 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOSER
We'll see what Justin's take on this will be...
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That is, if he notices...
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01-30-2009, 06:15 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 2,248
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Good stuff for improvements... ++1
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01-31-2009, 02:52 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 1,279
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Yes this is so important.
Got to be able to playback the CUE sheet before burning Justin - Bin is no good at all!
Cheers
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03-02-2009, 09:19 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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Btw, don't forget that you can make yourself a template, or use this: https://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/125120/Audio-CD.zip
The project runs on a 75 frame grid with an offset of 2 seconds and a marker at timecode 00:00:00 .
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07-11-2013, 01:55 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 1,279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billoon
With Arts permission, ive made a modified version of ReaBurn to allow inclusion of Index 0s in a REAPER created bin/cue. Can also be used to create a cue file from a project file for wav/cue if needed.
Instructions (and source) are included in the zip. Any bugs are mine, not Arts.
...which leads to a simple FR.
>Implement the * as Index 0 to complement the current # as Index 1 functionality and allow render to wav/cue combination.
...which would make this redundant.
Download ReaBurn BinCue.
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Is this available anywhere?
Cheers,
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07-11-2013, 02:28 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arse end of the earth.
Posts: 2,988
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There should be a version on the stash but i think there may be a little bug in it but i can't exactly remember what it is.
I think i've got a fixed version on a hard drive somewhere, i'll take a look.
Haven't used it in ages, been using Wyatt's DDP to Cue tool here...
http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...&postcount=294
I know it involves an extra step but its probably the simplest way ATM.
__________________
Fortune favours the prepared...
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07-15-2013, 02:09 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arse end of the earth.
Posts: 2,988
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__________________
Fortune favours the prepared...
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07-15-2013, 03:25 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 1,279
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Thanks for your quick response!
Seems to be some invisible charaters in the title.
I used a RPP with # markers but no text. Foobar refuses saying:
Code:
Unable to open item for playback (Error parsing cuesheet: invalid TITLE syntax (line 5)):
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07-15-2013, 04:11 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arse end of the earth.
Posts: 2,988
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OK, I'll take a look.
__________________
Fortune favours the prepared...
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07-15-2013, 04:34 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arse end of the earth.
Posts: 2,988
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I'm not getting that error here. Can you attach the cue file and rpp?
__________________
Fortune favours the prepared...
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07-15-2013, 06:41 AM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 1,279
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Ok - both attached . . . .
Sorry - the cue file wasn't accepted. I replaced it with a ZIP of both
Last edited by maa; 07-15-2013 at 08:38 AM.
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07-15-2013, 08:22 AM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 1,279
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I tried with Track names and pauses - all is well.
I think in the case of no names you're adding a space or two.
Last edited by maa; 07-15-2013 at 08:29 AM.
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07-15-2013, 01:44 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arse end of the earth.
Posts: 2,988
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What version of Reaper are you using?
Seems like its caused by the project file. Yours has...
MARKER 1 0.00000000000000 "#" 0
...but if i save it here, i get...
MARKER 1 0.00000000000000 "#" 0 0
...then it works fine.
Does anyone know what that second 0 is for?
__________________
Fortune favours the prepared...
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07-16-2013, 12:59 AM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arse end of the earth.
Posts: 2,988
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That second number is for the markers colour, did you do anything with that?
I think the error is with the project file but i can't seem to repro it.
__________________
Fortune favours the prepared...
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07-16-2013, 01:23 AM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arse end of the earth.
Posts: 2,988
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__________________
Fortune favours the prepared...
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07-16-2013, 10:37 AM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 1,279
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Ok, thanks again.
This is getting difficult now.
The one project with no names was saved from Reaper Ver2.55 but Art Evans Reaburn 2.5 works fine with that.
Your new version does not - it leaves the last quote off according to notepad. BUT - according to 'CDRcue 2004' the second quote is there but there are two spaces between.
If I save the project with Reaper Ver4 everything works as expected. So its strange why Reaper 2.55 should do that but probably not worth delving into any further. My bad for not using the current version.
Thanks again.
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