Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER Music/Collaboration Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-20-2016, 04:33 PM   #1
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default Ant Sex For Music People (Adam And The Ants Remix)

Hello fine people and everything else!

This is a remix in progress of the Adam And The Ants' album Kings Of The Wild Frontier. I loaded each track off the album into Reaper, found a bunch of loops and messed about from there. This took a couple of days, and I'd like to finish it quick and move on to something else.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to add more to the bassline in the second half, and add some panned guitar chords just to add chunk to the track, then leave it there.

But this got me wondering what suggestions may come from you fine folk? Is there anything that stands out as 'broken'/desperate glaring errors, or something you feel the track is in need of?

Any suggestions welcome, good/bad/indifferent

Hope you find something in there to enjoy

https://soundcloud.com/ear/antsex

Also, I grabbed a video off archive.org and slapped it with the track for a youtube video -

https://youtu.be/4y6zEcet8yo

Last edited by maxdembo; 06-21-2016 at 12:43 PM.
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2016, 09:38 AM   #2
TheMaartian
Human being with feelings
 
TheMaartian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Arcachon, France
Posts: 434
Default

I'm liking it so far!

I don't know anything about "broken", except my own work, of course.

That said, I think it would be fun to hear this run through Eventide's Blackhole reverb. Check out the Artist and Factory Presets Soundcloud demos. Not your Daddy's 'verb!

https://www.eventideaudio.com/produc...verb/blackhole

Thanks for sharing!
__________________
Intel i9, 32 GB RAM, 7 TB SSD; Win 11 Pro; PreSonus Studio 1810c
Studio One 6 Pro; MuseScore 4; Melodyne 5 Studio; Acoustica Pro 7; Reaper 7
Gig Performer 4; NI S61 MK3; Focal Shape 65; Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro, DT 770 Pro
TheMaartian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2016, 09:59 AM   #3
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default

Hey! Thanks for the reply!

I dont know that reverb unit. I'll do some research. Thanks for your input. You'd like to hear the Eventide on the whole mix? I'd like to understand what you're suggesting
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2016, 02:30 PM   #4
TheMaartian
Human being with feelings
 
TheMaartian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Arcachon, France
Posts: 434
Default

Not on the master buss...on whatever instrument tracks you feel like. Watch the videos and take a listen to the audio demos. Uses will suggest themselves. Subtle to mangled. Much fun!

I like to play with it: take something I like, and keep messing with it until I like it again!
__________________
Intel i9, 32 GB RAM, 7 TB SSD; Win 11 Pro; PreSonus Studio 1810c
Studio One 6 Pro; MuseScore 4; Melodyne 5 Studio; Acoustica Pro 7; Reaper 7
Gig Performer 4; NI S61 MK3; Focal Shape 65; Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro, DT 770 Pro
TheMaartian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2016, 03:58 PM   #5
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default

Nice one. I shall give it a whirl

Thanks!

EDIT: Yep

Im listening to the examples and can get an idea of why you suggested the eventide blackhole. I usually use Lexicon vst reverbs, but the blackhole definitely presents a different flavour but still sounds in theme with the track.

EDIT 2: Having a reverb with a bpm setting is pretty cool. I dont understand the controls fully yet but the Richard Devine setting called Automate with tempo lock and set as a send is a pretty great starting point over here.

Last edited by maxdembo; 06-21-2016 at 07:12 PM.
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2016, 08:15 AM   #6
sammydix
Human being with feelings
 
sammydix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 2,892
Default

I can understand the verb suggestion. Mix sounds good in general, but rather flat. Doesn't quite jump at you (wo going overboard with effects or compression). The Eventide (or any good verb) might pop out some more life and give it some depth--again wo overdoing it in the opposite direction.

Now where does one get some of that Gold Ant?
sammydix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2016, 08:23 AM   #7
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammydix View Post
I can understand the verb suggestion. Mix sounds good in general, but rather flat. Doesn't quite jump at you (wo going overboard with effects or compression). The Eventide (or any good verb) might pop out some more life and give it some depth--again wo overdoing it in the opposite direction.

Now where does one get some of that Gold Ant?
Excellent. Yeah, these are good critiques Thank you.

I'd only got a light lexicon plate verb as a send and a subtle delay send. An extra verb has improved things already.

Gold Ant was the first result in a google image search for Ant Sex
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2016, 08:44 AM   #8
TheMaartian
Human being with feelings
 
TheMaartian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Arcachon, France
Posts: 434
Default

Let us know when you post an update!
__________________
Intel i9, 32 GB RAM, 7 TB SSD; Win 11 Pro; PreSonus Studio 1810c
Studio One 6 Pro; MuseScore 4; Melodyne 5 Studio; Acoustica Pro 7; Reaper 7
Gig Performer 4; NI S61 MK3; Focal Shape 65; Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro, DT 770 Pro
TheMaartian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2016, 07:27 PM   #9
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMaartian View Post
Let us know when you post an update!
I'm letting you know I've posted an update!

https://soundcloud.com/ear/antsex

The main questions on my mind are "Have you I pushed this too far into constant annoyingly high frequency range?" and "I need to add bass. That Adam Ant sample doesnt really have any".

I still need to sort out some panning on some tracks too, too much mono!

Anything else stand out as needing work to anyone?
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2016, 09:32 AM   #10
TheMaartian
Human being with feelings
 
TheMaartian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Arcachon, France
Posts: 434
Default

Coming along nicely, sir! Not sure how much more you really need to do. I'll let you deal with the stereo width, but one little thing to try might be to auto-pan (bpm-sync'd) the background vocal "ahs" to add a little more movement to my already biddley bopping side-to-side snake charmer thing my body does when listening to v0.8. Looking forward to v0.9! And then, OMG, can't be...you mean an "official" release? v1.0! Woot!
__________________
Intel i9, 32 GB RAM, 7 TB SSD; Win 11 Pro; PreSonus Studio 1810c
Studio One 6 Pro; MuseScore 4; Melodyne 5 Studio; Acoustica Pro 7; Reaper 7
Gig Performer 4; NI S61 MK3; Focal Shape 65; Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro, DT 770 Pro
TheMaartian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2016, 11:33 AM   #11
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMaartian View Post
Coming along nicely, sir! Not sure how much more you really need to do. I'll let you deal with the stereo width, but one little thing to try might be to auto-pan (bpm-sync'd) the background vocal "ahs" to add a little more movement to my already biddley bopping side-to-side snake charmer thing my body does when listening to v0.8. Looking forward to v0.9! And then, OMG, can't be...you mean an "official" release? v1.0! Woot!
Thanks!

As is always the way, as soon as I rendered this version last night, I started noticing more things to change/fix/alter. The amount that AHHH appears is one of them, I hadnt even considered its lack of movement though. So nice one, thanks for the suggestion, I may have forgotten about that.

Im still not sure about the lack of any other bass notes, if I really should just leave it as a one note bass line, or even if that bass currently in the track has enough low end. Damn the 80's and their lack of bass! Damn vinyl rips and their low end rumble too!

Thanks again for the feedback. I'm hoping to jump straight from version v0.8 to a final release but we'll see. Maybe an RC first
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2016, 12:56 PM   #12
TheMaartian
Human being with feelings
 
TheMaartian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Arcachon, France
Posts: 434
Default

I really don't think you need much more in the low end. I've been playing it through my BX8 monitors, not my home theater system, without a sub, and it sounds full spectrum to me. It takes low end to get me moving, and I'm grooving to it a lot more than in the beginning, so if anything, you're just down to tweaks and things.

That said, I don't know what your target listening demographic is. If you're just doing this for yourself, then all good. If you've got a demographic that demands MORE LOW END (MORE COWBELL!), you do make a Fat-bottomed Girls low end remix of it!

EDIT: By the way, I like your avatar!

Attached Images
File Type: jpg Affen mit einem Daumen hoch.jpg (18.8 KB, 331 views)
__________________
Intel i9, 32 GB RAM, 7 TB SSD; Win 11 Pro; PreSonus Studio 1810c
Studio One 6 Pro; MuseScore 4; Melodyne 5 Studio; Acoustica Pro 7; Reaper 7
Gig Performer 4; NI S61 MK3; Focal Shape 65; Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro, DT 770 Pro
TheMaartian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2016, 02:02 PM   #13
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default

My aim has always been 'If I bought this music, would I happy with my purchase?'.

Im a harsh critic, and more than that, I like to think I've spent my money wisely (hello Reaper!)!

No demographic in mind other than myself, but I'd love it if all my tracks worked on all speaker types like 'real music' does

Thanks for the feedback on the bass. If its got you moving thats definitely a great sign!
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2016, 05:16 PM   #14
sammydix
Human being with feelings
 
sammydix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 2,892
Default

Sounds like it got a shot of some that Gold And now.
sammydix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2016, 11:14 PM   #15
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammydix View Post
Sounds like it got a shot of some that Gold And now.
I hope thats a good thing?
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 08:05 AM   #16
sammydix
Human being with feelings
 
sammydix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 2,892
Default

...meaning more lively.
what's with the suspicions???
sammydix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 01:21 PM   #17
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammydix View Post
...meaning more lively.
what's with the suspicions???
Just my misplaced sense of humour being weird, no harm meant
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 04:35 PM   #18
TheMaartian
Human being with feelings
 
TheMaartian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Arcachon, France
Posts: 434
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxdembo View Post
I hope thats a good thing?
No clue in this post that it was in jest?
__________________
Intel i9, 32 GB RAM, 7 TB SSD; Win 11 Pro; PreSonus Studio 1810c
Studio One 6 Pro; MuseScore 4; Melodyne 5 Studio; Acoustica Pro 7; Reaper 7
Gig Performer 4; NI S61 MK3; Focal Shape 65; Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro, DT 770 Pro
TheMaartian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 04:50 PM   #19
sammydix
Human being with feelings
 
sammydix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 2,892
Default

i asked because it was done twice, in two different posts to my comment. I believe anyone else would have wondered also.
once wouldn't have garnered the question...which was answered, so all is fine.

Last edited by sammydix; 07-02-2016 at 04:58 PM.
sammydix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-02-2016, 04:58 PM   #20
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammydix View Post
i asked because it was done twice, in two different posts to my comment. I believe anyone else would have wondered also.
once wouldn't have garnered a question...which was answered, so all is fine.
Better to ask than wonder, for sure!

Nothing to see here, move along

https://media3.giphy.com/media/Yl5aO3gdVfsQ0/200_s.gif
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2016, 10:07 PM   #21
Punk Duck
Human being with feelings
 
Punk Duck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 138
Default

I liked it, but I'd like to hear some other beats a bit more, as well as the "Los Rancheros" one.

Dog Eat Dog, "Kings" and the sticks at the start of Antmusic would be good!

And there's some great B sides of the Ant's singles that aren't on the KotWF album official (maybe on the reissues) Red Scab, Beat My Guest and Kick! have some great guitars that are own there own in at least some places that could be well used I think.

Anyway I like it, but maybe making it "harder" with less verby ness. That album was actually pretty raw, so I think it dissapates some of the energy if you over process it.

I have a track of my own that uses the "Kings" beat, sped up a bit. The more I processed it the less impact it had!

Punk Duck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2016, 08:02 AM   #22
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punk Duck View Post
I liked it, but I'd like to hear some other beats a bit more, as well as the "Los Rancheros" one.

Dog Eat Dog, "Kings" and the sticks at the start of Antmusic would be good!

And there's some great B sides of the Ant's singles that aren't on the KotWF album official (maybe on the reissues) Red Scab, Beat My Guest and Kick! have some great guitars that are own there own in at least some places that could be well used I think.

Anyway I like it, but maybe making it "harder" with less verby ness. That album was actually pretty raw, so I think it dissapates some of the energy if you over process it.

I have a track of my own that uses the "Kings" beat, sped up a bit. The more I processed it the less impact it had!

I wanted to add more samples from Adam, certainly those sticks but it just wasnt working for me. And with remixes, I've become pretty harsh in the 'if i cant get it to work pretty quick, then get rid of it and move on'. So in the interest of 'taking care of business' things get jettisoned pretty quickly. Also, because of the way I work, I cant really afford to care about keeping whatever I'm remixing sound too much like the original. No reverence for the reference! The remix goes whereever it wants to go so I end up with what I end up with and just have to work along its own path. I've really pissed of a few local bands over the years, remixing their songs and ending up with something that sounds NOTHING like the original

I started to try and replace the bassline with my own last night, and the kick drum, but no, fuck it, its too much work to get it to work! If I replace the bass, I have to get rid of the Los Rancheros sample, if I do that, I've gotta replace the whole beat. I cant be arsed! Its just a side project, I've got albums of my own work to finish!

Thanks for listening, and thanks for commenting! I think I'm finishing this track up today, or at least getting it to RC1 status anyway
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2016, 10:33 AM   #23
jason_442
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 311
Default

You do a great job on these remixes. Love this eerie vibe it has to it.
jason_442 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-04-2016, 04:25 PM   #24
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_442 View Post
You do a great job on these remixes. Love this eerie vibe it has to it.
Very kind, thank you. I'll update the video once I've finished the track
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-05-2016, 09:06 PM   #25
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default

I'll probably change my mind later today but at this moment, I'm at RC1 status with the remix

https://soundcloud.com/ear/antsex
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-06-2016, 09:32 AM   #26
TheMaartian
Human being with feelings
 
TheMaartian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Arcachon, France
Posts: 434
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxdembo View Post
I'll probably change my mind later today but at this moment, I'm at RC1 status with the remix

https://soundcloud.com/ear/antsex
Not sure what all you did, but a lot of little background sounds seem more articulate or forward or noticeable. Maybe it was backing off the chorus aahhs, IDK. But whatever, I quite like it now. Good RC!
__________________
Intel i9, 32 GB RAM, 7 TB SSD; Win 11 Pro; PreSonus Studio 1810c
Studio One 6 Pro; MuseScore 4; Melodyne 5 Studio; Acoustica Pro 7; Reaper 7
Gig Performer 4; NI S61 MK3; Focal Shape 65; Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro, DT 770 Pro
TheMaartian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2016, 10:29 AM   #27
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMaartian View Post
Not sure what all you did, but a lot of little background sounds seem more articulate or forward or noticeable. Maybe it was backing off the chorus aahhs, IDK. But whatever, I quite like it now. Good RC!
Thanks!

Does it still make you move?
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2016, 10:05 AM   #28
TheMaartian
Human being with feelings
 
TheMaartian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Arcachon, France
Posts: 434
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxdembo View Post
Thanks!

Does it still make you move?
Yeah, it does, but it's a LOT more interesting.
__________________
Intel i9, 32 GB RAM, 7 TB SSD; Win 11 Pro; PreSonus Studio 1810c
Studio One 6 Pro; MuseScore 4; Melodyne 5 Studio; Acoustica Pro 7; Reaper 7
Gig Performer 4; NI S61 MK3; Focal Shape 65; Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro, DT 770 Pro
TheMaartian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2016, 10:20 AM   #29
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMaartian View Post
Yeah, it does, but it's a LOT more interesting.
Ah ha! Now I fully understand

Thanks! Very much appreciated.
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2016, 08:45 PM   #30
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMaartian View Post
Not sure what all you did, but a lot of little background sounds seem more articulate or forward or noticeable. Maybe it was backing off the chorus aahhs, IDK. But whatever, I quite like it now. Good RC!
In the interest of potentially passing on knowledge to anyone who might read this, I figure I could give more information about what I did.

I'll try and be brief tho (uh huh)...

I backed off the aaahhhs, gave them some pan, but also took a bunch of them out as it repeated too much. I also stretched a few backing aaahhs here and there, to keep things changing, however slightly, over the course of the track. I've backed up Adam's singing by adding a tiny bit of my own to double track him, add an octave lower/higher, and a distorted kind of whispered shout.

I also stereo'd out a bunch of the guitars, tightened up the timings of various guitar parts that I'd added.

I think I reduced the bass a tiny amount with a shelf eq.

(I'm starting to lose track of what I did when now, on which version)..

Anyway, the version I'm uploading next (which I'm pretty sure is the final version) has some guitar parts with the following tutorial applied...



The guy there is using it on vocals to add subtle width. Some of my guitar parts had lost their mono compatibility and disapeared in mono so I've used that trick to bring them back but keeping the width.

I've also been mixing with my monitors at ridiculously low volume levels due to me being a good neighbour. I think its maybe helped me notice what wasnt coming out in the mix in places. I have to admit that my saffire dsp's Virtual Reference Modelling is quite a help in headphones.

Oh and LOADS more automation going on!

On top of that, theres a couple of plug ins on the master bus... a little compression, waves REDD console, waves j37 tape and a limiter).

Remixes are great practice tracks to test ways of improving/destroying my own tracks!
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2016, 08:18 AM   #31
TheMaartian
Human being with feelings
 
TheMaartian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Arcachon, France
Posts: 434
Default

I knew it wasn't just one little thing.

Edit: Interesting tip. Gotta love Melodyne!
__________________
Intel i9, 32 GB RAM, 7 TB SSD; Win 11 Pro; PreSonus Studio 1810c
Studio One 6 Pro; MuseScore 4; Melodyne 5 Studio; Acoustica Pro 7; Reaper 7
Gig Performer 4; NI S61 MK3; Focal Shape 65; Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro, DT 770 Pro

Last edited by TheMaartian; 07-09-2016 at 08:27 AM.
TheMaartian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2016, 08:30 PM   #32
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default

RC2 is up!

Little tweaks here n there.

Maximised with Izotope Ozone.

I'll listen to this at a friends later, but I think this is done now, or at least as much as I can be bothered

https://soundcloud.com/ear/antsex

Still, if anyone has any opinions, I'd love to hear them, good or bad!
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2016, 03:49 PM   #33
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default Final!

Final version added to the youtube video!

I still think this mix has very slight mono compatibility issues but I'm done with it. Time to move on!

Video sourced from archive.org

maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2016, 08:54 AM   #34
TheMaartian
Human being with feelings
 
TheMaartian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Arcachon, France
Posts: 434
Default

Two thumbs up!

__________________
Intel i9, 32 GB RAM, 7 TB SSD; Win 11 Pro; PreSonus Studio 1810c
Studio One 6 Pro; MuseScore 4; Melodyne 5 Studio; Acoustica Pro 7; Reaper 7
Gig Performer 4; NI S61 MK3; Focal Shape 65; Beyerdynamic DT 880 Pro, DT 770 Pro
TheMaartian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2016, 09:41 AM   #35
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMaartian View Post
Two thumbs up!

Thats amazing
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.