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09-03-2012, 04:28 PM
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#41
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lxm
23 people are I guess. You are a complete and utter moron. Good luck with all that!
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Heeeehaw...
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09-05-2012, 02:56 PM
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#42
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie
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I think notational scoring would be a great feature.
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09-09-2012, 01:11 AM
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#43
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 123
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Editeur Partition
Votre logiciel est utilisé par des Musiciens.Un éditeur de partition est un outil INDISPENSABLE pour un musicien qui se respecte.
J'ai démarré avec Pro 24 ,Cubase,Nuendo et tous avaient cet outil.
Il n'est pas nécessaire que ce soit très complexe( quelque-chose de semblable à ce que j'avais sur Nuendo me suffit.
J'éspere que ,très rapidement, Reaper possède un Score-edit.
MERCI
Guanilepa
__________________
guanilepa
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09-18-2012, 03:51 AM
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#44
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 8
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I registered just to voice my request for this!
I'm a cakewalk user that's desperate to dump Sonar's sorry ass but what's holding me back is the lack of notation in Reaper.
As a professional musician, I have to be able to read and edit musical notation - I've been doing it my whole life so it's where I'm most comfortable. It would be great to be able to read and write midi as notation.
I just came by to show some support for this idea.
Last edited by ionian; 07-19-2018 at 09:24 AM.
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09-18-2012, 11:09 AM
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#45
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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guanilepa: RAISON!
ionian: Ex Sonar myself so thanks for the support. I am still using my Amiga 1200 ferkrissakes! Didnt like Sonars score edit, either.
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09-18-2012, 03:31 PM
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#46
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guanilepa
Votre logiciel est utilisé par des Musiciens.Un éditeur de partition est un outil INDISPENSABLE pour un musicien qui se respecte.
J'ai démarré avec Pro 24 ,Cubase,Nuendo et tous avaient cet outil.
Il n'est pas nécessaire que ce soit très complexe( quelque-chose de semblable à ce que j'avais sur Nuendo me suffit.
J'éspere que ,très rapidement, Reaper possède un Score-edit.
MERCI
Guanilepa
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Translated via my rusty French
"Your program is used by musicians. A notation editor is an INDISPENSIBLE tool for any self-respecting musician. I started with Pro24, Cubase, Nuendo and all had this tool. It doesnt necessarily have to be very complex, something like Nuendo has would suit me fine. I hope that Reaper will have a score editor very soon. Thanks! Guanilepa"
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09-19-2012, 04:49 AM
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#47
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London
Posts: 1,211
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For many musicians (specially composers) the score view is very important. For me it's the main feature missing now...
In fact I don't want a notation editor, just a notation view, something like in Logic maybe...
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09-20-2012, 07:34 AM
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#48
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 10
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To me this, the score editor and view, is also the thing that is missing in the program, while REAPER is a fine program in the other parts of audio and MIDI. I thought of getting Notion due to its (supposed) superior notation and playback capability and using either a certain DAW I use currently (and which has limited notation capability) or REAPER (if it has good notation capability). As a serious composer, musician, producer and such, standard notation is very important. It could even be beneficial to REAPER users who don't even use it. How? In using it in REAPER to get used to it and learn more about it and eventually use it as a standard. It would even get you better along if it's about talking about music, scores, looking at scores and so on. You would learn even more and be more professional and skilled.
By the way, lately I was thinking that perhaps I could somehow help the developers regarding this score editor matter. Maybe there's another person for that, I don't know. How does one contact them and get going about it?
And by the way, having a superior or very good score editor in a DAW isn't necessarily for printing out scores. A composer who uses a DAW and VST instruments may very well need it and use it because that's simply is the way he thinks. A composer without a DAW may use paper and a pencil. He thinks of the music and he writes it down and uses certain musical symbols to describe how the piece must flow. Why should this be left out of a DAW, a DAW which is these days about making music? Some would perhaps put forth that it is a Digital Audio Workstation. Good, then remove all MIDI capabilities. Notation is even the standard if it's about communicating music visually. Why is such a standard that has been existing for many centuries and has even been proven to be superior left out?
What is so complex about it and its implementation? Suppose I want staccato, what is so complex about having it? Basically short hits of whatever note has staccato, which, translated to MIDI, would be the shortening of the note length. An accent on a note, what is so complex about having that? Translated to MIDI, something like "play this note harder or louder". Both staccato and an accent, what's so complex about having that? A combination of the two I just mentioned. Hairpins, what's so complex about having that? Basically, the increase of strength of sound, MIDI velocity, some such thing. Musical symbols such as ppp, pp, p, mp, f, ff, fff, etc. Shouldn't be a problem, right?
Elsewhere I stated that DAWs these days are, if it regards audio and MIDI, pretty advanced to put it simple. Why hasn't the notation part of them been improved? Keeping such a standard as standard music notation alive is important. It doesn't just attract to your program those who actually use it, it may even help and attract those who at some point may use it and who aren't using it now. In the long run, it may even improve the music industry, who knows. Imagine those young kids (I don't know what age, maybe even already in elementary) who start to play with your program and they discover musical notation and even that it is a very good and proper notation capacity in the program. They would learn and see what this thing does and what that thing does. Imagine what a job a company has done then. It'd be a good thing.
And look at the price-quality ratio of REAPER! Just a couple o' bucks and already such power? Just put in some serious notation capability and your program is superior and better and more ahead than the rest if it's about price-quality ratio.
Last edited by Bren Gun; 09-20-2012 at 07:37 AM.
Reason: found a typo, and grammatical error
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09-20-2012, 12:54 PM
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#49
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 340
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This...
Is musescore, a freely downloadable scoring app.
http://musescore.org
I sent about sixty students there to download it last week so I could give them listening examples with accompanying musical notation (my job is to train them to be professionals; professional musicians are expected to read music like professional electricians are expected to read wiring diagrams). I'll do this with every new batch. Because of the ways the courses here are structured that'll be about 100/year.
I'll send them to http://reaper.fm instead when Reaper has a useable score editor.
I can't know how many licenses thatll translate to. There's no doubt that it will be more than if they hadn't seen and worked with Reaper.
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10-26-2012, 04:09 PM
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#50
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 316
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Same argument here. I am a music teacher.
In first place I need notation for my workflow. I still use an old Logic version, just to have the possibility of score editing.
In second place reaper could be used by my pupil (instead they use logic fun, same reason as above).
I guess it will change something, when this door opens, so that many new users will be attracted for similar reasons. I guess many teachers would use reaper so that newbies would get in contact with reaper in first place.
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10-26-2012, 05:10 PM
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#51
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
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Here's something interesting:
apparently '23' people have voted for a notation based editor in REAPER. [edit - just checked that, in fact now it is 159]
while on this thread 80 people have viewed someones attachment of a picture of the old 'powertracks' editor (which I agree, was basic but quite handy as an editor). Are the FR's for real? are there straw man FR's here? Why the 'move along'? This matters quite a lot to quite a few users.
I have had to change paradigm from notation to piano roll just because I need REAPER for its many other benefits, I don't mind personally, but let me tell you how this can hurt REAPER in general -
Like some of the above posters have said, when in a general music classroom we have to use MuseScore. If REAPER had a multi-part notation view, especially if MIDI could be exported to MusicXML, no matter how rudimentary that was, then REAPER could be the core app in a music class, and MuseScore just the printing app, where it is great. These two are great apps for the classroom as they are both inexpensive, easy to install and cross-platform. Giving REAPER MusicXML export would help them play together even better.
ATM, MuseScore becomes the core app (sequencer) and this sucks, because even without notation editing, REAPER is a far better sequencer.
Over.
Hamish
Last edited by hamish; 10-26-2012 at 05:19 PM.
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10-27-2012, 01:16 PM
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#52
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lxm
total waste of time IMO. REAPER has far more important(EXISTING) things to work on.
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Why is implementing something that will improve my workflow and allow those of us using notation far more power and flexibility a waste of time? Because you don't use notation?
I hate the idea that people are going out of their way to shit on other requests, as I get the impression they think it somehow elevates their own requests. All it does is make you look like a jerk.
Go haunt the requests that will improve your experience, and stay out of ones that won't effect you. Get over the "if they work on this they won't work on what I want" mentality.
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10-27-2012, 01:33 PM
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#53
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowHead
Why is implementing something that will improve my workflow and allow those of us using notation far more power and flexibility a waste of time? Because you don't use notation?
I hate the idea that people are going out of their way to shit on other requests, as I get the impression they think it somehow elevates their own requests. All it does is make you look like a jerk.
Go haunt the requests that will improve your experience, and stay out of ones that won't effect you. Get over the "if they work on this they won't work on what I want" mentality.
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I can have my opinion. I couldn't possibly care less what you think. Its a waste of resources IMO.
I can pretty much guarantee I could read music before you even started playing.... jerk
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10-27-2012, 04:31 PM
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#54
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lxm
jerk
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Boy, you sure know how to win friends and influence people, don't you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowHead
All it does is make you look like a jerk.
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Both of you, apparently
P.S.
Quote:
I hate the idea that people are going out of their way to shit on other requests
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Me too.
Last edited by ivansc; 10-27-2012 at 04:37 PM.
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10-27-2012, 06:49 PM
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#55
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lxm
I can pretty much guarantee I could read music before you even started playing.... jerk
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So you're old as shit, or a know-it-all making a shit-ton of assumptions.
Which is it? Grandpa? Or dipshit?
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10-27-2012, 06:50 PM
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#56
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
Both of you, apparently
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Not really looking for friends or enemies. Just looking to improve my workflow as I create music. The idea that hostility would be necessary for such a thing baffles me.
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10-27-2012, 08:46 PM
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#57
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowHead
So you're old as shit, or a know-it-all making a shit-ton of assumptions.
Which is it? Grandpa? Or dipshit?
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i guess 25 people BAFFLE you. cool storys brahhh. have a golden night.
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10-27-2012, 08:48 PM
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#58
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
Boy, you sure know how to win friends and influence people, don't you?
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thanks!
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11-03-2012, 02:19 PM
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#59
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 130
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All egos aside, the lack of notation editing has been the #1 reason why I haven't used Reaper regularly in my work. I still work mainly in Cubendo.
For someone who reads notation, nothing is faster: finding bad notes, working out harmony lines, correcting voice leading, harmonic analysis and construction, improvising to a complex a harmonic context...
If you don't read notation, then of course it's meaningless.
There are fundamentally two uses for me: correction, and playing in or improvising new material while I read an existing structure. I don't need to hard copy and transpose on export. It would however be useful to overlay multiple tracks on the same double staff. But I don't need the fancy stuff available in Sibelius or Finale, and I've mentioned this before.
I had started to compile a list of basic requirements as well as the rules for display for Cockos to look over; I'll try to dig that up and finish it. I had some original ideas on the subject that I haven't seen implemented anywhere else.
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11-03-2012, 04:51 PM
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#60
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,301
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Install the free cross-platform Musescore.
Set it as the external midi editor in Preferences.
Done.
Asking the devs to write a very complex program like notation
is llke saying 'just throw together an airliner with these Cessna parts'
The solution is already sitting there, is free, and doesn't lock
us into a single notation solution that most everyone will complain about.
__________________
iMac i5quad/12gbRAM/1Tb Glyph drive/1Tb samples drive > Motu828mkII ---- Still run my GatewayM520 2.8ghz XP laptop. Video editing, 3D work and audio with zero problems.
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11-03-2012, 04:57 PM
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#61
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,860
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Maybe Cockos should snatch up one of those Sibelius people.
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11-03-2012, 07:17 PM
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#62
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
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I used to believe the 'too hard' or 'blow out the installer' argument until I thought about this a few times...
One guy wrote Power Tracks, a sequencer (MIDI only) that had a useable notation editor (see http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...2&postcount=27, it had a unique system to show velocity.)
I used it back in about 2000-2005 a couple of times. I'm going to find the installer and see how big it is.
Points - It was not designed for printing, it was minimal. If that same code (or similar) was added to the current REAPER installer it would add (I'm guessing) 5-10% of the size.
Last edited by hamish; 11-03-2012 at 07:32 PM.
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01-11-2014, 07:47 PM
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#63
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Air croit
Posts: 6
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I would also love to have a built in notation editor in Reaper the more fully featured the better.For me notation is one of the most desireable features.
The way Logic does it is pretty good I prefer it over the competition.Sonars notation is next to useless imo so I wouldn't want to have that kind of an implementation of it in Reaper.
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01-28-2014, 02:26 PM
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#64
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bosnia/Belltown
Posts: 80
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More then wonderfull idea,voted.
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01-28-2014, 06:56 PM
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#65
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lxm
23 people are I guess. You are a complete and utter moron. Good luck with all that!
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In more than one year the 'nays' have gone up a whole 1 person to 24. The 'ayes' are now more than 190 from 159.
A basic notation editor will not mess up anything else in REAPER or add too much to the installer. If it can export MusicXML then sequences can be handballed off to someone with MuseScore or something to create your high quality scores.
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01-29-2014, 03:52 PM
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#66
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bosnia/Belltown
Posts: 80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hamish
In more than one year the 'nays' have gone up a whole 1 person to 24. The 'ayes' are now more than 190 from 159.
A basic notation editor will not mess up anything else in REAPER or add too much to the installer. If it can export MusicXML then sequences can be handballed off to someone with MuseScore or something to create your high quality scores.
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Yes,probably I assume also.
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01-30-2014, 03:30 AM
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#67
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 499
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The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a "hybrid staff":
The main reason being relative ease of implementation. Actually, bars are more suitable for editing actual performances. Notation's biggest shortcoming is that it expresses musical ideas, not how they are performed. For instance, legato may imply slight overlapping of notes, the extent of which depends on specific instrument, loudness, tempo, etc., none of which is reflected in the written music. Not that I'm against full featured score editor, I propose hybrid staff as an easier to implement and sometimes more convenient alternative.
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01-30-2014, 06:35 AM
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#68
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bosnia/Belltown
Posts: 80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.lt
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a "hybrid staff":
The main reason being relative ease of implementation. Actually, bars are more suitable for editing actual performances. Notation's biggest shortcoming is that it expresses musical ideas, not how they are performed. For instance, legato may imply slight overlapping of notes, the extent of which depends on specific instrument, loudness, tempo, etc., none of which is reflected in the written music. Not that I'm against full featured score editor, I propose hybrid staff as an easier to implement and sometimes more convenient alternative.
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No to me me this idea is rather confusing than it helps really.We need regular notes,it is way much simpler to work if you using them.If we need hybrid I think contrary idea of this will be quite interesting to put notes and articulations directly into piano roll midi editor.
To me that shall do the trick,of course in my opinion.
Cheers to all.
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01-30-2014, 09:05 AM
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#69
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul intruder
No to me me this idea is rather confusing than it helps really.We need regular notes,it is way much simpler to work if you using them.If we need hybrid I think contrary idea of this will be quite interesting to put notes and articulations directly into piano roll midi editor.
To me that shall do the trick,of course in my opinion.
Cheers to all.
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Yeah, that would basically destroy the score editor for the needs of some of us (for example mine are teaching traditional notation) before we even start. Since that hybrid contains functionality already included in the piano roll it might be better to plan to provide a hybrid view by say allowing it to be docked as a transparent layer over the piano roll.
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01-30-2014, 10:54 AM
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#70
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bosnia/Belltown
Posts: 80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryg
Yeah, that would basically destroy the score editor for the needs of some of us (for example mine are teaching traditional notation) before we even start. Since that hybrid contains functionality already included in the piano roll it might be better to plan to provide a hybrid view by say allowing it to be docked as a transparent layer over the piano roll.
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Totally agree,hybrid view as additional optional mode without sacrifizing the score editor.I myself using it on other softwares very often,epsecially for movie/trailer orchestra`s,or composing classical or jazz music is much easier to do.
For other side hybrid mode will give releaf to guitar based musicians.I also composing a lot in that manner when I doing rock/hard rock/metal based music.
Best regard.
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01-30-2014, 02:03 PM
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#71
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul intruder
Totally agree,hybrid view as additional optional mode without sacrifizing the score editor.
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That's what I had in mind. Anyone who has programmed synth parts knows how important it can be to fine tune note starts/ends -- totally impossible in notation mode. Still I would like to have the benefit of clefs, key signatures, etc. while doing this. Hybrid staff would be just another option along with piano roll, event list and score editor.
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06-10-2014, 10:04 PM
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#72
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 6
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No hybrid.
Basic notation +1.
Only I would request a few symbols like accents, staccato, etc... only after the basics were done of course. Just the basic ones. If basic notation was finished the addition of symbols is really just linking the "pictures" to the midi control.
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06-10-2014, 10:11 PM
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#73
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,923
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there is something very special and useful about traditional rhythmic notation - you can see very quickly in a *non-proportional* way what the ryhthms are.
it can be hard to tell by looking whether a note is a quarter or a third of a beat - appropriate flags make this instantly visible.
Consider a full implementation of notation
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06-11-2014, 03:41 AM
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#74
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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I would accept JUST standard notation as better than nothing, but I am with the other Ivan on this.
Hybrid stave gives you a huge amount more flexibility.
Plus of course in Bars n Pipes Pro you can select either.
I am a total non-coder, but it does seem superficially that hybrid would be an easier step initially, ideally leading eventually to full-on score editing support.
But there again we have yet to see much in the way of response from the devs on this subject, after several years.
Maybe if Justin gets more into MIDI and in-depth sequencing???
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06-13-2014, 06:36 AM
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#75
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 14
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+1 on standard notation. For me, the hybrid stave would not be much of an improvement over just using the piano roll. What I do in Sonar, which still has a basic notation editor, is jump back and forth between the notation view and the piano roll to view the score but still edit note lengths/velocity/etc. It works pretty well for me.
Dan
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10-02-2014, 11:45 PM
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#76
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 316
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Still working with good old logic 5.5 on PC to have notation. Its perfect for me, but would be so nice to do notation in reaper, because I do all composing in reaper. Muse Score is no real option for me, as long as editing the notes is the way it is right now.
I like the idea "best of both worlds" - just dragging notes like in a pianoroll, like logic does for over 10 years ...
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12-24-2014, 06:18 AM
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#77
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Bosnia/Belltown
Posts: 80
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Users who would use this feature 220
Users who would not use this feature 25
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01-15-2015, 09:23 PM
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#78
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,153
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The only thing holding me up from buying Reaper is its lack of a staff view. Sonar has one, and you can even print out a score. I do a lot in the staff view, such as transpose notes, move parts of musical phrases around, etc. For me it is indispensable. This may be because I first learned to compose with pencil and paper, and never really got into the piano roll way of doing things. But would it be so hard to have a basic staff view? IMO, it's the only thing keeping Reaper from being a true professional DAW.
Michael
Admin, Composers' Forum
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01-15-2015, 09:44 PM
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#79
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,153
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To expand on this: I believe that Reaper may be uniquely positioned to capture a larger share of the DAW market, if they were to implement a basic staff view. With DAW's like Sonar and Cubase becoming increasingly bloated, and now going to the subscription model, which many find loathsome, it's a perfect opportunity. Somebody will do this. If not Reaper, probably Notion. I would think it would be easier for Reaper to do it than Notion, since you're only adding a staff view, where Notion would need to implement much better sequencing. There is a need for an affordable, streamlined and fully-functional DAW. Reaper is at this point closest to being that DAW. Just one small step away!
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01-16-2015, 09:53 PM
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#80
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
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Hi michael, are you aware that Notion is a product of presonus who also make the 'Studio' DAW? I don't think that they will be combining the products, they are really two different markets.
This is not any argument against REAPER having a basic score editor though. I believe that it could be done as an extension using the musescore libraries, if someone in the SWS team was sufficiently motivated.
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