Why doesn't Reaper put bar one at time zero...?

[Fabian]

I know this issue has been raised again and again, I simply cannot understand why it has not been fixed. It bugs the hell out of me, and to me the fix seems so easy...

My default project is set up with project start time at -0:02.000, which (by experimentation) gives me a nice layout with some space to the left. It looks like this:


As you see, the default project is at 120 BPM 4/4. And then time 0 lines up with bar 1, which is to me the sensible thing to have.

If I change from 4/4 to 5/4, I get this:


To me, this is all messed up, and there is no easy way (that I have found) to re-align time 0 with bar 1.

If instead I change the BPM, I get this:


Which I again think is messed up, with no (easy) way to fix.

Why is it so hard for Reaper to keep time 0 and bar 1 at the same place?
And does anyone really not want it that way? Nothing else makes sense to me...

Suggestion for what seems to me a nice and easy fix is in my signature. Please vote so we can have this mess sorted out.

[Vendetta V]

damn tried, and I'm facing the same issue. So far it seems like there's no easy fix for this?

[Nip]

I never fiddled with it - but there is a setting what bar project starts on.

And I often forget to rewind position when recording or when importing media - but I guess that is not your case here.

[Fabian]

Originally Posted by Nip

I never fiddled with it - but there is a setting what bar project starts on.

You can only set that at whole numbered bars, and as you see in the pictures, this won't help. In any case, I think Reaper should handle this sensibly by itself. It is such a fundamental thing.

[billybk1]

+1
This issue has irked me for a while as well. I set my default project the same with a -0.02.000 start time as well. Everything is lined up perfectly @ 120BPM & 4/4. As soon as you change the tempo and/or the time signature the pre-roll and time line numbering gets screwed up and there appears to be no way to fix it. It seems to only work correctly when the project is set @ 120 BPM & 4/4. This issue has been around for as long as I can remember (many years).

I am glad you brought this up as it is one of the few things that really bother me about REAPER.

Cheers,

Billy Buck

[ripgtr]

That is weird. Tested and verified. I don't use negitive time on the default template, I change it later so I never noticed this before.
Is this reported in the bugs forum? Or at least a request for a button for "keep time zero locked to bar 1" or something.

[Fabian]

Originally Posted by ripgtr

Is this reported in the bugs forum? Or at least a request for a button for "keep time zero locked to bar 1" or something.

It is well-known, been around forever. As for being reported, at least there's my FR http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?...4371#note18464

[ivansc]

Had somehow missed voting YES on this. Done. Shame that there are only 17 votes so far....

Suspect a lot of people have somehow glossed over this like me.

What we need is a trendy, eye-catching message header!

How about "Naked women offer free money and beer to start Reaper on negative bar number"?

[Andy Hamm]

Does this still happen without the two seconds of negative preroll?

It seems to me from your description that everything works as one would expect, and what you want is some kind of protective place holder from -2 seconds to 0 to prevent any changes to that section of the project.

[Quest The Wordsmith]

Originally Posted by Andy Hamm

Does this still happen without the two seconds of negative preroll?

It seems to me from your description that everything works as one would expect, and what you want is some kind of protective place holder from -2 seconds to 0 to prevent any changes to that section of the project.

I don't see any negative values on my project. I changed to 5/4 timing like the OP and the timeline starts at one. I know nothing of pre-roll, so does this problem only happen when someone's using pre-roll?

[Andy Hamm]

Originally Posted by Quest The Wordsmith

I don't see any negative values on my project. I changed to 5/4 timing like the OP and the timeline starts at one. I know nothing of pre-roll, so does this problem only happen when someone's using pre-roll?

They original poster has inserted an additional 2 seconds of project time before the zero time mark, for ascetic reasons - which is fine. The problem is that project time based functions are performed on the entire project, not just from the zero mark on. He doesn't want the project to use that two seconds of preroll, so I think some form of locked place holder in that region is the appropriate fix.

On the flip side, if someone was to add musical content in the negative time region, they may very well want it to be treated the same as positive time for time functions - so this isn't a bug, just annoying for those that have that preroll in the negative region. Locking sections of time, making them immune from time functions seems like a reasonable solution for everyone.

[karbomusic]

Originally Posted by Andy Hamm

They original poster has inserted an additional 2 seconds of project time before the zero time mark, for ascetic reasons - which is fine. The problem is that project time based functions are performed on the entire project, not just from the zero mark on. He doesn't want the project to use that two seconds of preroll, so I think some form of locked place holder in that region is the appropriate fix.

On the flip side, if someone was to add musical content in the negative time region, they may very well want it to be treated the same as positive time for time functions - so this isn't a bug, just annoying for those that have that preroll in the negative region. Locking sections of time, making them immune from time functions seems like a reasonable solution for everyone.

It is a bug. Zero should mean zero and display zero/bar x at all times and all zoom levels. The only time it started meaning otherwise is when Reaper appeared and did it wrong due to rounding issues etc. Pick any location in the project, set that as the start time, zoom in and watch what happens. Additionally, I and many prefer 0:00 to be where the song actually starts not where the project starts, seems like that accuracy would be a nobrainer.

[Vendetta V]

not sure if this has been suggested yet but hey, with 120bpm and your marker 1. Beginning at 0 second bar 1, why dont you create a time signature marker (Shift+C) and then change the bpm from there, you'll have the 2 sec and 0bar before the beginning and whatnot. should work all fine!

[mwe]

In Reaper's defense, I suspect preroll is another case where the coding hasn't caught up to the intent. It's sort of doing the right thing, as far as it can anyway. The project timebase has to be either beats or time. The OP's example happens to be where time and beats coincide. The 2 sec preroll works out to exactly 1 measure so everything lines up nicely. When you change it to 5/4, a measure becomes 2.5 sec which is the new location for measure 1 (as reflected on the timeline). But the preroll is still set to 2 sec so time 0 is still in the same place. Confusion ensues. The only way to fix it (as it currently works) is to adjust the preroll to be the actual time duration of one measure. In the OP's case, if you drag a time selection of one beat within the preroll and then insert empty space it will make things line up again.

[famous beagle]

I know this is an old thread, but I just found it, and it's something that's always bothered me as well. I'm not entirely positive I'm on the same page here, but I think I am.

What's always bothered me is that Reaper always starts bar 1 right away at the very beginning of the song. In my opinion, this shouldn't even be the default because, if you want your Reaper project to match a chart, let's say, it doesn't allow for any pickup notes before measure 1.

This is silly to me. Surely there has to be a way to change this????

Thanks

Edit: Ah! I found out how to do it after all.

[nickstomp]

there's an option on the first page of the project settings

to set the bar number and the time at start

i set theproject start measure to -3 -> to have 1 on the fifth bar

and I set the project start time to edit cursor (on the same measure, depends on the time of the song)

[Fabian]

Originally Posted by nickstomp

there's an option on the first page of the project settings

to set the bar number and the time at start

i set theproject start measure to -3 -> to have 1 on the fifth bar

and I set the project start time to edit cursor (on the same measure, depends on the time of the song)

This is known, of course, see above.

The problem is that as soon as you change BPM or time signature, you again have to manually set the start time. I wanted (in 2012), and still want (in 2021), a way to set bar 1 and time 0 so that these are at the same place even after changing BPM or time signature.

[mr.cello]

I just ran into this myself. What I am seeing is while Reaper (v6.78!) is OK having arbitrary negative time offsets it appears to need a "whole" value for beats (not some arbitrarily small time division).

I whole heatedly agree that time zero should be settable to the start of a measure; it shouldn't be driven by the project start. Looks like the FR that Fabian created (http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?...4371#note18464) over 10 years ago has been completely ignored.

[TonE]

Bar counting only needs to be done -1, rest keeping same. Too simple for Justin, probably.
Here is better not to think like a programmer/coder.