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Old 02-11-2015, 06:20 PM   #1
babag
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Default internet collaboration and file size advice, please.

i'm collaborating with someone, both using reaper, via the internet. he's got my tracks and is laying down some of his own to send to me. the tracks he's recording are guide tracks not intended for inclusion in the audio mix. as such, we're thinking it would be convenient to exchange files in a compressed format like flac or even mp3. the first go 'round we used wav at 48/16 and it took forever to upload. is there any downside to recording these tracks in a compressed format? could it affect sync? how do i set it up? i mostly edit/mix and don't do a lot of recording.

oops. should add that he's recording on a mac and i'm on a pc.


thanks,
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:58 PM   #2
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you can use flac, but you can also take the tracks and compress them to .rar files and transfer those....

don't know if this will help you but it might... look into Team Viewer... the free one...

it runs on both pc and mac so you guys could have a real time connection... it has a file transfer function as well....
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:47 PM   #3
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Or get a Dropbox or Copy free account. Then both of you can upload and download files.

Enjoy.


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Old 02-12-2015, 02:44 PM   #4
babag
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thanks for the replies.

how much does rar compress wavs? haven't used rar myself and doubt my collaborator has either. trying to avoid asking him to do too much setup and installation on his end (mac).

we both have box accounts so that's how we're sending files. it's not the sending that's the issue, as far as that goes. it's the upload time. first piece we're doing is 25 minutes. multiple 25 minute wavs take forever. that's why i want to go compressed.

my big concern with compressed files is that, never having worked with them, i have no idea if file compression could affect sync. does removing bits risk altering sync relationships.

thanks again,
BabaG
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Old 02-12-2015, 03:00 PM   #5
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splice.com
is absolutely amazing.
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Old 02-12-2015, 03:12 PM   #6
babag
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reaper's not on the supported daw list. looks interesting but we're already into the project and working ok via box. the exchange medium is not the issue.

thanks,
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Old 02-12-2015, 03:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babag View Post
my big concern with compressed files is that, never having worked with them, i have no idea if file compression could affect sync. does removing bits risk altering sync relationships.
Well, for mp3 there's this old post by Ollie

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=35578

But I *think* this is now no longer an issue because Reaper at some got this which prevents this (edit: that is, if all collaborators are using Reaper. Don't know how this is handled in other DAW's).



But indeed at some point (long ago or with another DAW, don't remember) I have also experienced that mp3 sync problem he mentioned, that's why I changed to wavpack meanwhile and never noticed a problem with syncing so far.

edit2:
Wavpack is also pretty good at detecting silence imo, which could be also a plus for internet coops.

From this thread it seems rar might also detect silence.
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=83368

Maybe do some tests which method gives the best results.

Last edited by nofish; 02-12-2015 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 02-12-2015, 03:34 PM   #8
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I consolidate the entire project to .ogg. Zip and transfer via <your favorite upload site> to the collaborators. Never had an issue with sync or quality.
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Old 02-12-2015, 03:36 PM   #9
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is the ogg consolidate option native to reaper or does it require add-ons? how much compression do you get?

thanks,
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Old 02-12-2015, 03:39 PM   #10
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nofish,

sounds like mp3 works, just has to be compensated at the start of the file. that seems to be the worst case scenario. does that sound right? i can live with that for the major file size savings. remember, these are guide tracks, not to be included in the audio mix.

thanks,
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Old 02-12-2015, 03:39 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babag View Post
is the ogg consolidate option native to reaper or does it require add-ons? how much compression do you get?

thanks,
BabaG
Native. I never calculated the compression. Just alway do it lik this because it's easy and manageable. But it's WAY smaller than .wav and WAY easier to sync than mp3 stems (IMO).
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Old 02-12-2015, 03:41 PM   #12
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thanks, shemp. i'll look at that tonight.

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Old 02-12-2015, 03:56 PM   #13
babag
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actually, found an evaluation copy of reaper here and tried ogg and flac.
ogg compressed a lot more than flac. i noticed it defaulted to vbr encoding.
do you use it at the default, or do you use cbr? might cbr be better for
sync? curious.

thanks again,
BabaG
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Old 02-12-2015, 04:03 PM   #14
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I use VBR 1.0 (Best quality). I never did a comparison to CBR so I can't comment.
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Old 02-12-2015, 10:29 PM   #15
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Jamming over Ninjam is a really good way to develop collab ideas and it all gets recorded in multitrack ogg or wav. Downside is that public server jams become creative commons material and setting up a private server is a bit of a pain. I doubt too many people are digging through 24/7 streams to steal your gems, but I guess it depends.

You get more "energized" material if some of it is live improv in my experience.

Oh and if you're worried about sync, you can embed your project markers and tempo when you render, and then import them from the file so you can verify everything is lining up.
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