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09-28-2011, 11:17 AM
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#41
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Scotland, The Noo
Posts: 278
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That's basically what I'm asking for. Reaper should render the project as per usual, and once it's complete it should then normalize it as specified. In theory it should only take a couple of extra seconds.
I'd prefer it if Reaper could do the normalization before writing the file into it's final bit depth (normally 24 bit), so that the normalization takes place at Reapers own internal bit depth (64 I think), but for 24 bit WAVs it's not essential, just better.
Just to be clear, the normalization would take place before encoding/compressing of the audio file, not afterwards. (normalizing an mp3 wouldn't sound great :-( )
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09-28-2011, 11:19 AM
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#42
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Miami
Posts: 2,298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftoid
That's basically what I'm asking for. Reaper should render the project as per usual, and once it's complete it should then normalize it as specified. In theory it should only take a couple of extra seconds.
I'd prefer it if Reaper could do the normalization before writing the file into it's final bit depth (normally 24 bit), so that the normalization takes place at Reapers own internal bit depth (64 I think), but for 24 bit WAVs it's not essential, just better.
Just to be clear, the normalization would take place before encoding/compressing of the audio file, not afterwards. (normalizing an mp3 wouldn't sound great :-( )
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Not my area of specialty but...is this possible? I would have thought that having to round down from 64bit to whatever would introduce potential rounding that could possibly make a normalized file go higher than its desired ceiling.
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09-28-2011, 11:25 AM
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#43
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Scotland, The Noo
Posts: 278
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Not my speciality either, but that's what currently happens every time you press render at the moment anyway, reaper scales the 64bit depth down to 24bit. Basically, all I'm asking for is to be able to alter that scale instead of having it fixed.
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09-28-2011, 11:29 AM
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#44
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Miami
Posts: 2,298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiftoid
Not my speciality either, but that's what currently happens every time you press render at the moment anyway, reaper scales the 64bit depth down to 24bit. Basically, all I'm asking for is to be able to alter that scale instead of having it fixed.
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Gotcha. I was being obtuse, anyway: it could easily write it to a temp file (maybe even just available RAM in some cases), do the normalize, and then write the real file, that's not much of a challenge. So I guess the answer is: yes, it is indeed possible to scale the bit depth lower and still normalize before the final file is written.
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09-28-2011, 11:30 AM
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#45
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Scotland, The Noo
Posts: 278
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Yep, that's what I thought to. I'm sure the genius devs could master it no mater how complex it was anyway.
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09-30-2011, 12:27 AM
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#46
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 3,000
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Interesting how the Batch File/Item Converter does something somewhat similar by giving you the option to apply an FX chain, dither, and noise shaping to the output.
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09-30-2011, 09:32 AM
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#47
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Scotland, The Noo
Posts: 278
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It's pretty similar to just adding FX to the master track. The problem is, you can't add normalize as an FX, as it has to scan the whole track.
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10-18-2011, 05:58 PM
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#48
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,860
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To whom it may concern, I voted for this just because I want regular vanilla normalization for renders, and I wouldn't mind if Cockos were to add that and get to the complex stuff later.
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10-19-2011, 01:28 AM
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#49
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Scotland, The Noo
Posts: 278
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Just basic normalize would be fine for me too. The other stuff would be nice... but I could live without it for a whole.
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10-19-2011, 05:52 AM
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#50
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 3,000
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^^^
that
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11-05-2011, 02:13 AM
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#51
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 3,000
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Normalize to selection
would also be nice to be able to normalize an entire item to a selection
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11-05-2011, 06:14 AM
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#52
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2006
Location: NA - North Augusta South Carolina
Posts: 4,294
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I would think to be implemented Reaper would have to first be able to render to the point where clipping occurs, then make an adjustment - which could create a chasing-your-tail programming conundrum if the clipped section contains a triangularly increasing cross section. You couldn't render at a higher bit depth and throwaway bits without taking more time or truncating, I would think this would be an impossible FR?
ON THE OTHER HAND...
A "Volume Gamut Warning" would be neat, ala PhotoShop: in the mix window, it would be nice if Reaper highlighted on the timeline where clipping occurs. That way you could check it out quickly visually, and determine whether it's an overall mix level condition or an errant peak on one track.
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11-07-2011, 05:51 AM
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#53
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Scotland, The Noo
Posts: 278
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As far as I can tell, it would be entirely possible. I mean we can currently do this manually by importing a rendered file, normalising it then rendering it again. I just want reaper to automate that, but to do it before its compressed down to mp3/WAC etc.
It would probably involve rendering to two files (or perhaps one in ram then the final onto the HDD). It would render your entire mix with a massive overhead in reaper's native 64bit to ram, then normalize it while doing the final render to whatever settings you selected. In total I doubt it would take much longer than a standard render, no longer than it takes to copy the file from ram to HDD really (as normalizing is basically just multiplying/dividing the data by a pre-set amount, and as we all know, multiplying is one of the most basic operations a pc does).
Would love to get some feedback from the devs though.
Last edited by swiftoid; 11-07-2011 at 06:06 AM.
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11-10-2011, 04:23 AM
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#54
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 3,000
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I can imagine different ways it might be done and implemented. but it seems like a pretty simple thing.
I can imagine it being done with a macro.
Do render with 'add to project' enabled... post render, go to that item, normalize, render to new take, then something like delete the item (to release the sources) then do some kind of file name change and delete routine. Which is pretty much what I do by hand. If I bother. (Could a macro actually do that? A question maybe for the SWS forum.)
In practice, it's not worth it for quickie mixes that can turnover often. In practice, I play these renders in Reaper anyway (my default for all formats) so normalizing is nothing.
But a normalize on render option would still b nice 2 have.
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11-10-2011, 05:01 AM
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#55
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Scotland, The Noo
Posts: 278
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Yup, but it would be nice to normalize before saving to the final file format or bit depth (which currently we can't do). But 24bit wav is good enough for now.
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06-05-2014, 05:42 PM
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#56
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: France
Posts: 9,874
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Sorry for bumping an old thread :P
I think that feature is great and I voted.
Last edited by X-Raym; 06-05-2014 at 07:18 PM.
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06-05-2014, 08:39 PM
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#57
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 509
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i think it should only be done as a script since it's easily done manually or in any standalone editor which can also be launched from reaper. The devs should keep their work focussed on other stuff like bug fixing or still yet improving midi stuff which has always lagged behind.
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08-25-2015, 09:08 PM
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#58
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nystagmus
i think it should only be done as a script since it's easily done manually or in any standalone editor which can also be launched from reaper. The devs should keep their work focussed on other stuff like bug fixing or still yet improving midi stuff which has always lagged behind.
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sorry for the bump, but just installed Reaper 5 and I still don't see the normalize function in the Rendering dialog
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09-23-2015, 12:16 AM
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#59
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 23
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bump
bump bump)
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10-03-2015, 03:16 PM
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#60
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 798
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*bump*
I'm sick of having to normalise in soundforge after each render...
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10-03-2015, 08:40 PM
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#61
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 509
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no need for normalisation
Why not use a transparent limiter and just limit a little bit (like less than a single dBfs) if you need some boosts to get there, do some EQ on your master. Set your limiter output to -0.1 dBfs.
Here's a good limiter for the job: http://www.vstplanet.com/News/09/Loo...%20Limiter.htm
set it to dual mono
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10-04-2015, 02:19 AM
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#62
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Lower Rhine Area, DE
Posts: 964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nystagmus
Why not use a transparent limiter and just limit a little bit (like less than a single dBfs) if you need some boosts to get there, do some EQ on your master. Set your limiter output to -0.1 dBfs.
Here's a good limiter for the job: http://www.vstplanet.com/News/09/Loo...%20Limiter.htm
set it to dual mono
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bad idea. that doesnt normalize but alters the dynamics and the frequency-balance of the mix. normalizing is done to exactly avoid these alterings and touch only the levels.
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10-04-2015, 04:22 AM
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#63
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: home is where the heart is
Posts: 12,096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LightOfDay
bad idea. that doesnt normalize but alters the dynamics and the frequency-balance of the mix. normalizing is done to exactly avoid these alterings and touch only the levels.
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While you're technically correct my take on this is if it's done as described by Nystagmus (using the limiter just to prevent overshoots, just 'kissing the needle' occasionally) nobody will hear anyway. (Which would have to be proven or not in a blind listening test though )
Last edited by nofish; 10-04-2015 at 04:49 AM.
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10-04-2015, 04:49 AM
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#64
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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Lower Rhine Area, DE
Posts: 964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nofish
While you're technically correct my take on this is if it's done as described by Nystagmus (using the limiter just to prevent overshoots, just 'kissing the needle' occasionally) nobody will hear anyway. (Which would have to proven in a blind listening test though )
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yes. no. dont know.
yeah, if you do it the soft way nobody will hear it. given you have normal songs or pieces.
where normal normalizing has its boundaries of usefulness. you wouldnt want to normalize songs like the average Slipknot-piece and a song like Shine On You Crazy Diamond Part I within the same batch. in these cases you would have to come up with another idea. so normalizing to -23db LUFS (RMS) would be the really better way to go.
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10-14-2015, 02:01 AM
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#65
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 7
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I voted, this would be great.
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02-09-2016, 06:50 AM
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#66
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 41
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bump
I'm going to also throw my hat in the ring for this. Would be great to be able to normalise to LUFS or RMS in the batch file/item converter. Big time saver.
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05-02-2016, 07:29 AM
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#67
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 41
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Normalize on Render!
This would be so useful. As it is, every track I render then needs to be separately normalized in Audacity. Should be able to set the normalization level, too!
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05-02-2016, 07:35 AM
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#68
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 41
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Wow, can't believe this still hasn't been added. "Fixed" would be a better word for it. It's such a basic feature, I'd call lack of normalization on rendering a bug. Come on guys, you're constantly adding new cool features, how about getting this basic one in there!
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05-02-2016, 08:13 AM
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#69
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: South, UK
Posts: 14,214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timatkins
I'm going to also throw my hat in the ring for this. Would be great to be able to normalise to LUFS or RMS in the batch file/item converter. Big time saver.
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That would be useful!
(since we are asking.. My big wish for is "2nd pass rendering" whereby reaper will first play back the piece to be rendered once so that reverbs/delays etc will be "excited" and then bounce it down on the 2nd loop as then reverbs will sound right.
This also works well for looping issues you can get when adding things like minimal phase EQ to loops that then shift the phase in such away that you get a click unless you have the loop start before the render.
__________________
subproject FRs click here
note: don't search for my pseudonym on the web. The "musicbynumbers" you find is not me or the name I use for my own music.
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07-10-2016, 06:56 PM
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#70
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshs
Wow, can't believe this still hasn't been added. "Fixed" would be a better word for it. It's such a basic feature, I'd call lack of normalization on rendering a bug. Come on guys, you're constantly adding new cool features, how about getting this basic one in there!
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Yes, can't believe its not added.
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08-09-2016, 01:36 PM
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#71
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 41
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Oops, I forgot this already existed and posted a whole new thread. It deserves it though... also, to clear up the confusion on this thread. Normalizing in this sense means you find the loudest peak in the recording and then you raise or lower the volume of the recording so that the peak matches the target level. It's not rocket science and it's very useful. It means you can easily mix with a bunch of headroom and then render as loud as possible without clipping. Reaper already has a normalize function for items so most of the functionality is there. In fact, you can already do the normalization using Reaper, it just takes extra steps. Other DAWs (Mixbus for example) include this feature.
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12-18-2016, 01:43 PM
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#72
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 115
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Voted.
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12-21-2016, 04:28 AM
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#73
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 798
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Voted, please add user defined LUFS normalise option too
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12-21-2016, 05:59 PM
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#74
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 7,271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travesty
Voted, please add user defined LUFS normalise option too
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...and do what to peaks that would exceed 0dbfs? I suppose that only matters when going to fixed-point formats, but do you just want it to clip off hard? Soundforge has a way of compressing those peaks, but that gets complicated.
This really would be pretty cool, but it will tend to take longer since it'll have to render to floating point first, then normalize and then render to fixed point with whatever dither settings have been chosen. Still quicker than render>look at final peak value>adjust master>render again which is what I've been doing since I decided to stop going over to SoundForge. It would also be more accurate since any randomization and much modulation in the mix will cause those peak levels to be different each time it's rendered.
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04-27-2017, 06:17 AM
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#75
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Scotland, UK
Posts: 56
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Normalize on Render
It agree that it would be very helpful to have the option to normalize on render. As others mention this isn't the same as running a limiter plugin. For normalizaton, it is necessary to scan the output from the entire track to establish the optimum gain factor before saving to the requested bit depth. At the moment I render from a project, then import the rendered audio into a new project, then normalise the item, then render again. This should be a built in as an option to save time (as it is in Logic's Bounce feature for instance).
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04-28-2018, 02:09 PM
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#76
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 187
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In the year 2525...
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04-28-2018, 04:36 PM
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#77
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: France
Posts: 9,874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heda
Render LUFSis a script that helps automatically rendering a file to the desired target integrated loudness (LUFS)
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https://reaper.hector-corcin.com/app/render-lufs
Maybe you could also ask for peak / rms normalization too ?
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04-28-2018, 06:48 PM
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#78
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X-Raym
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It re-renders it? I hope at most it only does it twice. Still not very effective if it has to re-render because I generally render several hours worth of audio per day.
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04-29-2018, 09:55 AM
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#79
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: France
Posts: 9,874
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@InfiniteDimensionality
The most reliable way to calculate by how much it has to push the volume to normalize is to do it on a rendered file itself. That's is what is asked: post render normalization :P
Note if the second render is based on the new created audio files, it will be more efficient (no FX to calculate, one single track etc).
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10-09-2019, 02:25 PM
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#80
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Scotland, The Noo
Posts: 278
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Wow, hasn't the least 8 or 9 years flown by. I'm still alive by the way.
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