Old 04-19-2012, 02:39 PM   #1
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Default I FREAKIN FOUND THE HUI DOCS!!!!!

Hi,

Im probably the only one here that cares^^,,but after a 5 year search, a kind gent named theageman has done it! The most complete ,accurate, beautiful txt files i have ever seen!
Here they are^^

http://stash.reaper.fm/12332/HUI.pdf

http://stash.reaper.fm/12333/HUI_CSET.txt

http://stash.reaper.fm/12334/HUIREFRX.txt

http://stash.reaper.fm/12335/HUIREFRX.txt

http://stash.reaper.fm/12336/HUIREFTX.txt

http://stash.reaper.fm/12337/HUIZONES.txt

And here is where I got them from...BIG THANKS and eternal gratitude^^ to the ageman!!

http://www.ssei-online.de/cms/?q=en/node/36

Now maybe someone at Cockos could finish the Csurf..or let me do it by just making a Reaper osc to midi convertor and Ill take care of all the conversions myself and release it for everyone. PLZ!! Ive waited so long..and tired of depending on the kindness of strangers!^^Im begging..Justin...Shwa..plzzzzzzzz Lou..in a Ted Knight voice^^

EDIT...On second thought I would prefer the osc to midi convertor option. I now have split my hui into 3 different MIDI zones. The faders and bank sel..pan... select..solo /mute...are all done by the Reaper HUI Csurf with full bidirectional communication. The buttons on the right..there's 56 of them..I grab out of the midi stream by the messages they send and convert them to key commands using bomes midi translator pro. Until BMTP me and just about everyone else {that didn't have native hui support in their daw} couldnt even use their daws learn function.
The third and the "zone" I am having all the trouble with is the displays on my board..one a 2*40 character text display..and a smpte/bars beats 7 segment display. My issue is that I cant get osc..what looks like the Reaper standard for what Reaper will SEND OUT....into midi so i can then covert those midi messages into what the displays expect. phew!!! And this way it would benefit many more ppl.

HELP

Guido

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Old 04-19-2012, 03:21 PM   #2
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Awesome, thanks Guido. I hope this leads to something good.
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Old 04-19-2012, 04:25 PM   #3
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Awesome, thanks Guido. I hope this leads to something good.
Hi,
Thx Mr Hughes..me too!!
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Old 04-19-2012, 05:09 PM   #4
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Nice one Guido! Downloaded, and I'll sure have a good look at it - it seems all plain MIDI (SysEx) at first sight. I bet we can do a OSC <--> HUI patch. But I also bet this is still going to be a lot more complicated than wrapping your head around OSC.

Too bad I don't have such a device to play with. Explain again please, is there anything possibly interesting about this protocol for those who don't own a specific (expensive) device?

PS: looks like you posted two identical copies of the file HUIREFRX.txt, and forgot HUICSET2.txt.
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Old 04-19-2012, 05:14 PM   #5
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[...] one a 2*40 character text display..and a smpte/bars beats 7 segment display. [...]
What should be on them? *Exactly* (digit by digit! ) ?
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:08 PM   #6
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Nice one Guido! Downloaded, and I'll sure have a good look at it - it seems all plain MIDI (SysEx) at first sight. I bet we can do a OSC <--> HUI patch. But I also bet this is still going to be a lot more complicated than wrapping your head around OSC.

Too bad I don't have such a device to play with. Explain again please, is there anything possibly interesting about this protocol for those who don't own a specific (expensive) device?

PS: looks like you posted two identical copies of the file HUIREFRX.txt, and forgot HUICSET2.txt.
Hi banned,

Thx for spotting that.sry.And thx for havin a look at the docs.

Any message they use over 3 bytes is sysex..but they use a lot of double 3 byte messages. For ex. button presses/releases are 2..3byte midi messages.Its all midi.

In my op in the edit i describe what i think is the ticket for me. I let the Reaper Csurf handle the basics...my preset for bomes midi translator does all the buttons via Reapers action learn window..all this is covered now. But its just the display. The relevant information in detail is on pages 4-7 on the HUI/pdf.

As far as who would be interested....any one that has a controler that was designed to work with protools. That would include a lot of not NOW so expensive midi controllers. Especialy with the way avid has made them obsolete for current PT {if Im not mistaken} bu dropping hui support. Any HUI speaking controller. And this is old stuff man!the REAL hardware Mackie HUI..the grand father of all daw controllers..came out in 97! these controllers used to be expensive.

There's even a guy who first posted here looking for mackie info a while ago named khorus who has done a mod that he sells.that..get this..takes the old Mackie d8b digital board..came out in 2000 i believe..., and turns it into 25 faders of full mcu ..meters and everything! It no longer functions as a digital audio console..no audio in out..just 3 mcus's! for the price of 1 used d8b. about $1400 including his mod. Now this does nothing for me because the protocol is mcu,but i use it to say ...cut the reverse gear snobbery!^^^^joking I will compile and post some more info in a moment....

thanks also for all the helpful advice uve been giving..thx

Guido

EDIT I have a working mackie d8b digital board. In Version 5 software they added a HUI emulation layer.Just thought my post sounded confusing. I will post some links in a meoment..again thx..

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Old 04-19-2012, 10:10 PM   #7
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[...] I let the Reaper Csurf handle the basics...my preset for bomes midi translator does all the buttons via Reapers action learn window..all this is covered now. But its just the display. [...]
That concept seems fundamentally flawed to me. If you need something besides BMT to handle the display, and need to use MIDI (SysEx) for it (as you seem to do), then I suggest ditching BMT completely. It's way too kludgy to use two separate processes to handle a part of the MIDI stream / device. And the same probably goes for the Csurf plugin. I suggest picking *one* tool/platform to handle the entire problem.

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As far as who would be interested....any one that has a controler that was designed to work with protools. [...] these controllers used to be expensive. [...] just 3 mcus's! for the price of 1 used d8b. about $1400 including his mod. [...]
I may be wrong, but none of this sounds interesting to me yet, actually. Avid, ProTools, Mackie, MCU, HUI: to me they're more like swear words than anything to get excited about. "Incredibly expensive stuff that still doesn't work right - while my cheap ass gear works perfectly" is all I keep thinking. I'm still not hearing anything that I couldn't do *much* cheaper than $1400. Am I wrong? Seriously, I want to find out what it is that makes people pay so much money. Meters? VCA groups? Parameter feedback? Automapping? (Check, check, check, check... REAPER+OSC is pretty neat, I tell ya. )
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:13 PM   #8
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Hi,

Here are some links to my board..the d8b..and the original unit..the HUI hardware unit...that first implemented the HUI protocol.

http://www.mackie.com/products/d8b_v5/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfddVVIxDnE

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=mackie+hui

http://www.bluaudio.org/d8bridge/info.html#whatis

that last one is superbad! If my mixer ever fails im going to do it!

Thx for ur interest banned,

Guido
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:44 PM   #9
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Hi banned

..look man im not trying to say u or anyone else should ditch their ipads and bcf's and go get what i have. It took every dollar i had{at the time} and put it into my project/home studio..That was in the 90's..made almost all my money back by now.... 20 years! 13-16 hour days at one time...but with the way the biz has changed and my severe hearing loss..shh dont tell what clients i have left^^ my current studio budget is like 0. And what i got is what i got. And Im gonna drive it till the wheels come off or until it;s no longer a viable production asset!

I envy u guys with the bcfs..i mean Its all there for ya..working for ya.Couple that with a decent ipad display in the right position..sweet!

So good luck in ur endevours and nm.

btw..I never had protools..always logic..swore along time ago i would never give them my money. This was in the day,when if u said u were running a program from germany called logic..they laughed and said u NEED pro tools..sound famiiar Reaper user?

Guido

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Old 04-19-2012, 10:59 PM   #10
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Hi,

Here are some links to my board..the d8b..and the original unit..the HUI hardware unit...that first implemented the HUI protocol.

http://www.mackie.com/products/d8b_v5/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfddVVIxDnE

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=mackie+hui

http://www.bluaudio.org/d8bridge/info.html#whatis

that last one is superbad! If my mixer ever fails im going to do it!

Thx for ur interest banned,

Guido
That last one seems very kludgy compared to using OSC:
Quote:
[...] the software converts the commands into a more modern universal control protocol. This protocol is the "Mackie Control Universal" and it's compatible with most DAW software available on the market.

The Mackie Control hardware units have 9 faders total, 8 channels plus one master fader. To be able to use all of the D8B's 25 faders, we are emulating 3 complete units.
With REAPER's OSC configuration you would just set the number of tracks to 24 (as the master track is available separately).

So, what's the relation between Mackie's MCU and HUI exactly; is HUI the newer, more advanced protocol?
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:31 PM   #11
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That last one seems very kludgy compared to using OSC:

With REAPER's OSC configuration you would just set the number of tracks to 24 (as the master track is available separately).

So, what's the relation between Mackie's MCU and HUI exactly; is HUI the newer, more advanced protocol?
Hi banned,

the Hui came first in 1997.It was a co deal between then didgidesine and Mackie to control Protools. First itb hands on controller .Human Device interface.^^

Then Mackie cut a deal with then non apple logic guys and came out with the Logic Control.Looks just like a mcu,but differnt midi messages.Developed by Emagic and mackie. Then came the mackie control..still looking the same and available as a firmware update to the older models...and then finaly came the mcu and the mcu midi protocol. I would think that the mcu protocol is more advanced. Although the hui spec was no slouch...it did use faders with much more precision than 127. I think its 1024 or more.

I have everything working bidirectionally with Reaper except the displau.I just would like to have the display for plugin parameters at the mix position.
Thx

guido
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Old 04-20-2012, 02:28 AM   #12
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Hi banned,

the Hui came first in 1997.It was a co deal between then didgidesine and Mackie to control Protools. First itb hands on controller .Human Device interface.^^

Then Mackie cut a deal with then non apple logic guys and came out with the Logic Control.Looks just like a mcu,but differnt midi messages.Developed by Emagic and mackie. Then came the mackie control..still looking the same and available as a firmware update to the older models...and then finaly came the mcu and the mcu midi protocol. I would think that the mcu protocol is more advanced. Although the hui spec was no slouch...it did use faders with much more precision than 127. I think its 1024 or more.

I have everything working bidirectionally with Reaper except the displau.I just would like to have the display for plugin parameters at the mix position.
Thx

guido
Thanks for elaborating Guido, very informative.

The HUI docs mentioned 9-bit precision for the faders, and 1024 discrete steps would be 10 bits (2^10); btw, the BCF-2000 also has 10-bit, so I couldn't help chuckling when I read that. But 9 bits would probably be good enough for my purposes, I think.

It would be quite doable to display all kinds of stuff, but what do you mean with "at the mix position"?
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Old 04-20-2012, 12:38 PM   #13
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Thanks for elaborating Guido, very informative.

The HUI docs mentioned 9-bit precision for the faders, and 1024 discrete steps would be 10 bits (2^10); btw, the BCF-2000 also has 10-bit, so I couldn't help chuckling when I read that. But 9 bits would probably be good enough for my purposes, I think.

It would be quite doable to display all kinds of stuff, but what do you mean with "at the mix position"?
hi banned
thx for ur time..

About the precision...thx for doin the math for me.^^ Ive found the precision allright in the automation sessions i have tried.

By mix position i was just talking about being in the "sweet spot" between my speakers. I think ill get one of my kids iphones^^ and take a picture of my situation from an ergonomic perspective.

One thing came to mind tho..lets say i get osc commands converted to midi..and since im really interested in just the display section....they would probably be converted to sysex. But i would would take any midi sysex..of reasonable length....and ill do the conversion. You {or any one else that can help} would not have to even know what the correct values are.

For example,u could send me a translation of an osc to midi command that is...F0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F7. I could handle the rest.

But, how would one make reaper SEND the proper info to the disply..

e.g I hit a button to insert plug on selected track..no problem it calls up my Add FX window in Reaper.But does that automatically send the list text out as osc as definded in Reaperosc config file? Is the only way to do that is to be able to access Reaper s API? My God ..i hope not.

And again thx for takin an interest.

Guido
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Old 04-20-2012, 02:59 PM   #14
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This is something potentially exciting to me. If the REAPER devs could finally get HUI protocol working properly in REAPER, I could FINALLY start to use my CMLabs gear again. This has been my single biggest wish list for REAPER development since I started using REAPER.

At the moment, this is sitting in a box in my store room doing nothing.

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Old 04-21-2012, 10:07 AM   #15
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[...] At the moment, this is sitting in a box in my store room doing nothing. [...]
What a shame. Now if you'd ship that thing to me as a loaner, I'd have an incentive to make it work with REAPER asap. Too bad you're down-under and it probably weighs a ton, or two.

More seriously: if anyone in a similar situation and a bit closer to the Netherlands, let's talk.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:11 AM   #16
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This is something potentially exciting to me. If the REAPER devs could finally get HUI protocol working properly in REAPER, I could FINALLY start to use my CMLabs gear again. This has been my single biggest wish list for REAPER development since I started using REAPER.

At the moment, this is sitting in a box in my store room doing nothing.

Hi Dannii,

Good to hear from u again!

Short answer..get Justin to support Running status in the Reaper Csurf.
I have some good and not so good news and some ironic news.

The good news is ur now alot closer than ever to using MINIMUM 1 of those beautiful devices wuth Reaper with most all features except a non guarantee on the display feed back {other than what the Reaper Csurf now supports.And also good is I think i know EXACTLY why it doesmt work in Reaper but SHOULD.

I am putting together a more detailed and clearer exact details on the whys right now..but i wanted to tell u about this all quickly.

I have looked at the spec u sent me years ago off and on for ages..and could never understand y ur data looked different than what I was seeing coming out of my "HUI". This whole HUI secret code thing...u cant get the SDK from mackie without mob participation^^YUCK>>> And also I was ignorant about some key factors in the specs implementation.Not anymore.

The CM motor mix's implementation of the HUI spec uses RUNNING STATUS.
that is an early midi way of reducing "traffic".

I will provide links later, but from memory^^,,for example,if u send 3 midi messages in a row of the same STATUS {the first byte in a midi message}...e.g. note ..CC..Sys EX...after the end of the first message u skip the next two "redundant" status bytes and just use the rest of the 2 message's data.{and this is the short explanation or this Motor Mix issue.^^} The problem is ..not every midi program or even hardware supports running status. Obviously ..The reaper HUI Csurf doesnt'. Pro Tools does.

The other issue COULD be..based on ur answer to a question. When u try and hook up the box to Reaper using the Reap Csurf, does the MM's display say "online" or look like it should function? The reason I say that is another big difference I see in the MM's doc and what I see in the "new" HUI docs the op describes ...or that comes out of my HUI, is in the Sys ex. The Headers are different.....but we KNOW it works with protools and mine works with pro tools using different headers and the same HUI spec.

Sorry I have to go scoop up whats left of my 58 year old brain off the floor.....ok ....

I may have a solution if we cant get Cockos to support running status.{Thar would be the ticket}..but my possible solution depends on ANOTHER developer implementing Runnin status. SHEESH.

Or maybe some superior intellect {banned} could Pure data a thing that would take ur messages and insert a status byte. The good news here would be that this intellect wouldnt have to do all the messages individually I dont think. I beleive it could be done with..im goin out on the stretches of my knowledge here....global variables? e.g when xxxxx comes insert B0 in fourth byte?

to sum for now..ur box is hui..u already knew that^^.it just skipped a few bytes in the implementation to optimize performance {less midi traffic} If u ever talk to Mr Malone again, ask him...why??^^

I will return after my frontal labotomy..er...bottle in front of me...nm

Oh ...The ironic news...I had the HUI docs all along...yours!!!!! And {I don't mean to be blasphemous} I guess I really HAVE been on a mission from God...to help you!^^^ BB... phew

Guido
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:17 AM   #17
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One thing came to mind tho..lets say i get osc commands converted to midi..and since im really interested in just the display section....they would probably be converted to sysex. But i would would take any midi sysex..of reasonable length....and ill do the conversion. You {or any one else that can help} would not have to even know what the correct values are.

For example,u could send me a translation of an osc to midi command that is...F0 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 F7. I could handle the rest.

But, how would one make reaper SEND the proper info to the disply..

e.g I hit a button to insert plug on selected track..no problem it calls up my Add FX window in Reaper.But does that automatically send the list text out as osc as definded in Reaperosc config file? Is the only way to do that is to be able to access Reaper s API? My God ..i hope not.[...]
The example of getting all the text of the add FX window out is a poor one, unfortunately. REAPER has no way of sending that type of information anywhere afaik. You need to phrase what you want to do in terms of supported OSC message patterns (including all REAPER actions, which can be triggered by their action ID number). Within those restrictions, you can do a *lot* of interesting stuff. For example, for the last touched plugin parameter, it can show you current value in 0.0-1.0 range, (often) in human readable formats (like in dB for volume/gain, Hz for EQ frequency, etc.), parameter name, plugin name, track name, track number, and plugin slot number. Or it can show you the names of the plugins on the selected track. Or the plugin parameter names for a plugin. Etc. That's perhaps more than fits on your single display already?

Basically, what I suggest we do, is this:

[REAPER] <--(OSC)--> [Pure data] <--(HUI SysEx)--> [HUI compatible device]

- All OSC traffic uses a bidirectional UDP connection on localhost (i.e. on the same computer).
- All HUI SysEx traffic uses a bidirectional MIDI connection, using whatever MIDI I/O hardware you have.
- Pure data can be exchanged with Max/MSP or some other capable platform. A clever coder could perhaps roll a super efficient dedicated little app for it. I propose we use Pure data for the example because it's free and great for prototyping (compiled code may be more efficient, but it isn't as easy to change functionality on-the-fly, which is what we'll need during experimenting until we have all the OSC<-->HUI SysEx conversion right).

In this setup, Pure data is 'middleware': it can extract the necessary information out of OSC messages and (I assume, but have no reason to doubt) the SysEx messages sent by the HUI device, and make such messages itself putting the necessary information in. Whatever conversion or intelligence is required, we can just put into the Pd patch. (And you can also use it for all that other stuff, and ditch two out of three required tools, as I suggested before).

I'm using this basic concept, although not relying heavily on SysEx but 'plain' MIDI to my BCR-2000 (although it doesn't need SysEx for most stuff, for some more advanced things like changing a controller from 7 bit to 14 bit resolution or changing its lower/upper range limits on the fly, it does), and the Roland Alpha Juno/MKS-50/PG-300 (relying heavily on SysEx) and Access Virus will probably follow at some point.

I can show you some of the basics of this setup, so you can adapt them accordingly. It's still very much in a state of flux, so you'll have to give me some time to extract some useful bits, clean up the mess, and perhaps even document it a bit. But do think of another (less unfortunate) example in the meantime, as I don't know *what* OSC message you wish to convert to (HUI) SysEx. How about last touched plugin parameter number + name, and its value in human readable format? (You have 2 lines of 40 characters, right?)
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:22 AM   #18
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[...] The CM motor mix's implementation of the HUI spec uses RUNNING STATUS. [...]
Are you saying that perhaps all that is required is a conversion of MIDI messages that use running status into MIDI messages not using it, and vice versa?
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:26 AM   #19
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hi

All i can still type for now banned is ..Thanks! bb

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Old 04-21-2012, 11:28 AM   #20
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Are you saying that perhaps all that is required is a conversion of MIDI messages that use running status into MIDI messages not using it, and vice versa?

yes...the HUI spec is all about two messages at a time..the Cm mm skips the second stays byte..go banned ..go banned ..go banned


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Old 04-21-2012, 12:13 PM   #21
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yes...the HUI spec is all about two messages at a time..the Cm mm skips the second stays byte..go banned ..go banned ..go banned


Guido
That should indeed be pretty arbitrary for Cockos to fix then.

BTW: here' a quick screencap (153 kB .mov) of a small detail of one of my BCR-2000 SysEx patches: it shows snippets of text being changed to raw ASCII (which the HUI format also seems to use, at least for the relevant range of alphabetic/numeric characters that we really care about) bytes, then wrapped in a SysEx message with appropriate head and tail. Something like that could be a building block for a OSC/HUI SysEx conversion patch supporting the display on your device.
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Old 04-21-2012, 02:26 PM   #22
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That should indeed be pretty arbitrary for Cockos to fix then.

BTW: here' a quick screencap (153 kB .mov) of a small detail of one of my BCR-2000 SysEx patches: it shows snippets of text being changed to raw ASCII (which the HUI format also seems to use, at least for the relevant range of alphabetic/numeric characters that we really care about) bytes, then wrapped in a SysEx message with appropriate head and tail. Something like that could be a building block for a OSC/HUI SysEx conversion patch supporting the display on your device.
Hi,

that is one cool rig u got there partner!

I looked at it a few times and I THINK I can see what ur doin.kinda^^..I think that could work..You are correct that the sys ex message uses the ascii order of lettters and characters, i am going to look now at danniis docs...herr banned..http://stash.reaper.fm/12357/MotorMi...per%20pkg3.pdf

a quote,,,,

Recieved Messages....
......

L.C.D. Display Note: HEADER = F0 - 00 - 01 - 0F - 00 - 11 - 00 -
L.C.D. Text Display HEADER-10-ADDRESS-V0-V1-V2-V3-V4-.....F7

ADDRESS is starting address of LCD
Character from 00 to 4F. Vx is ASCII
Character value.


For example: to put “Kick ” on display starting in Channel 4 at top row of LCD:

F0-00-01-0F-00-11-00-10-0F-4B-69-63-6B-20-F7

For example: to put “Bass1” on display starting in Channel 1 and “Snare” in Channel 2 at top row of LCD:

F0-00-01-0F-00-11-00-10-00-42-61-73-73-31-23-53-6E-61-72-65-F7..............

..its funny bannned the op docs and Danniis docs both are presenting the same info..minus the running status and header thing...in an entirely different way. The op docs come from what seems like a strategic overall developers strategy..like he figured out the overall plan....albeit with all the details there...and danniis present it in a more line by line,switch xxxx pushed ..sends aaaa.

wow ..what were we takin about again?^^

btw..is there any way to use Reascript to help us reach deeper Reaper api?

No knock on osc..so take it easy^^...hell I dont even know yet enufff about the osc side..but im learnin..kickin and screamin^^ Thanks yet again for ur insight and help.

Guido

On the display u can page..so its usually 4 parameters per page,with the parameter names on top and the values underneath .Along with the required 4 switches an 4 rotary vpots.

btw..this kind of conversion would benefit not only me but dannii..and every other controller that was designed to work w PT. There should be a few others out there..and...since this is osc/xxx to midi it could possibly benefit ANY midi controller with a display. I know u knew that banned^^

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Old 04-21-2012, 03:23 PM   #23
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@Dannii, do you have a link to those docs you made somewhere? I'd like to have a copy as well, mainly out of curiosity.
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[...] btw..is there any way to use Reascript to help us reach deeper Reaper api?
Probably. I know about as much about ReaScript as you do about OSC. I never got around to playing with it, yet.

For communicating with devices using the HUI protocol such as yours, my preference would be to not rely on anything that depends on a particular DAW. I'd want to use any conversion layer for it (or at least as much reusable elements from it as possible) with any app that I feel like (not just REAPER), which presumably eliminates ReaScript from the most interesting options right from the start. I prefer to avoid any lock-ins if possible, even when I'd be tied to Cockos rather than Avid. Still, as I said, I don't know enough about it to say anything conclusively - it could well be the perfect REAPER-specific solution for all I know.
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Old 04-21-2012, 03:31 PM   #24
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Hi,

One last time for now.Sry,

I was thinking I might wait a bit on my display.let the Reaper osc world settle a bit. Im very interested in seeing what happens with Silents Reaosc....He SEEMS he may be your "clever developer". I am not giving up. I will never give up,well ...because Im on a mission...

I am now going to try and get bomes to support running status. Thnx banned.

btw that is a good plan u described in that flow chart.would love ro include someway to the Reaper api tho.enuff^^

Guido

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Old 04-21-2012, 03:41 PM   #25
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@Dannii, do you have a link to those docs you made somewhere? I'd like to have a copy as well, mainly out of curiosity.

Probably. I know about as much about ReaScript as you do about OSC. I never got around to playing with it, yet.

For communicating with devices using the HUI protocol such as yours, my preference would be to not rely on anything that depends on a particular DAW. I'd want to use any conversion layer for it (or at least as much reusable elements from it as possible) with any app that I feel like (not just REAPER), which presumably eliminates ReaScript from the most interesting options right from the start. I prefer to avoid any lock-ins if possible, even when I'd be tied to Cockos rather than Avid. Still, as I said, I don't know enough about it to say anything conclusively - it could well be the perfect REAPER-specific solution for all I know.
LOL

Hi,
ueah i know about as much about it as I know about osc also^^.
But in my research I saw its based on Python. there's even an old python script I found that converts osc to midi usin touch osc...touch osc natively does that now..right?
Ill investigate this more..thx

guido

btw also in my research I found aabelton live web project that uses python to do alot of this stuff.But it seems like it died because Abelton didnt support osc.
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Old 04-21-2012, 03:45 PM   #26
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@Dannii, do you have a link to those docs you made somewhere?

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i am going to look now at danniis docs...herr banned..http://stash.reaper.fm/12357/MotorMi...per%20pkg3.pdf

a quote,,,,
lots to read i know...^^
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Old 04-21-2012, 04:01 PM   #27
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But in my research I saw its based on Python. there's even an old python script I found that converts osc to midi usin touch osc...touch osc natively does that now..right?
Ill investigate this more..thx [...]
I do like Python, if only because it's a Dutch invention (although it extensively uses dry British humor). But my py-fu sucks, to say the least. Another thing on my near infinite (and growing) to-do list. Thanks for reminding me of it.

I haven't seen that script, so please share a link if you find it again, but I *guess* it's not of much use (other than perhaps for illustrative purposes): it probably converts the OSC messages that TouchOSC sends/receives to/from MIDI to/from REAPER. What we need here is going the other way around, and should be based on the OSC configuration of REAPER - not whatever some TouchOSC layout happens to be configured to do.

And those scripts for Ableton Live may simply have died because Max for Live can now be used both for digging into the Live API and for communicating with the outside world using OSC.

Btw, from what I can tell, I don't think ReaOSC is designed to solve this particular problem. But it is indeed half the solution I described: a native app communicating with REAPER via OSC.

Fwiw, adding OSC support to an app probably isn't very hard, in comparison to getting the entire logic of the desired functionality correctly implemented. At least, that's my experience so far: using OSC commands: 1%. Logic: 10%. Making stuff look and feel slightly less ugly, more intuitive, more user friendly: 90%. Cleaning up, documenting: whatever time/energy/brain power remains. Oops, already gone past 100%...

(It's probably my own fault that I end up with 90% for for look/feel/usability: like JS, Pd may be powerful, but is notoriously ugly. Using Max would make it at least twice as easy to make things look slick. )
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:05 PM   #28
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Hi,

Dannii.. I got it...!!!!!

I m making u the preset now in bomes midi translator.It does support running status. I had mistyped in my test of yr dara b4 and it was saying invalid midi.. i tried again..POWWW!! I a m going to set up some test tranlators..convert your running status HUI commands to regualr HUI.While im making the test bomes midi tranlator preset ..go download the demo..it works for 20 minutes..we'll get his thing runnin! Dam im getting goosebumps!

Guido

ok here is a test preset for bomes midi translator.I took a stab at the sysex header..and fader 1 touch and movement sent.Also solo 1 sent.Install the demo of BMT. Run it and File open my preset. If it says open ports just say no. then set up the used bomes midi ports as per guide. Run Reaper and set up a hui control with the BMT ports u selected.Set surface offset to 1.

Just a test.plz tell me of any reaction anywhere when u hit ok in the Reaper control surface adder. Add 1 channel in Reaper.Move the CM fader 1..and hit solo..if good were in bizness. If not it just means I have to learn my bomes better because I can almost guarantee its doable.Let me know!

guido


http://stash.reaper.fm/12358/CMmotor%20mix.bmtp

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Old 04-22-2012, 10:53 AM   #29
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Guido, you may want to give this one a try.

You only need to:

(1) Open the Pd patch (with Pd-extended, which includes all the required OSC stuff - and best keep the .pd files in the same folder) and select the MIDI output port going to the MotorMix (Preferences > MIDI Settings), or better: add something like "-midioutdev 1" to Pd's startup flags, so you don't have to select it on each launch (Preferences > Startup).

(2) Launch REAPER (4.20+) and set up an OSC control surface to *send* (using default port 9000, you may have to change this both in REAPER and Pd but chances are it works out-of-the-box; receiving data isn't supported/necessary in this patch), using the default OSC config, or the reduced version in the package (which *greatly* reduces the amount of data to only that what is actually used in the patch, but the default config should also work just fine);

(3) There is no step (3). Go mix stuff!

Let me know if it works.
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Old 04-22-2012, 11:00 AM   #30
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Hi,
thx man..trying now!..Convergence going on here?^^

Guido
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Old 04-22-2012, 11:31 AM   #31
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Hi banned,

Thx. I setup like u said and ran the Motor Mix pd. I see the eight name fields,And it updates as i change names in Reaper. I didnt get a reaction on my d8b, and i thought ..ha he musta used running status or somethin..based on the motor mix docs.
im going to rig a midi monitor after i eat, Thanks banned!

Yes i set the midi out in pd directly to my d8b{HUI}^^

question.did u use the header specified in the Motor mix docs..or the op{HUI} docs? bb

Guido
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:26 PM   #32
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Hi banned,

Thx. I setup like u said and ran the Motor Mix pd. I see the eight name fields,And it updates as i change names in Reaper. I didnt get a reaction on my d8b, and i thought ..ha he musta used running status or somethin..based on the motor mix docs.
im going to rig a midi monitor after i eat, Thanks banned!

Yes i set the midi out in pd directly to my d8b{HUI}^^

question.did u use the header specified in the Motor mix docs..or the op{HUI} docs? bb

Guido
No running status stuff, just using SysEx, I was using info from the specs in the MotorMix manual.

But, err, so that is *not* your mixer? Lol.

Ok, I guess then the SysEx header in the Pd patch should be changed a bit, and the addressing scheme simplified (I guess we can just delete a bit of maths and use the raw track number).

Try this package instead (I left the previous up, for anyone with a MotorMix - @Dannii, is that you? Give it a try!).

Open the subpatch [pd convert2SysEx] to see where I changed the part that read

[0 1 15 0 17 0(

into

[0 0 102 5 0 16(

I deleted the address calculation stuff there as well.

There's also slight modification to the [track-parameters] subpatch, to truncate the track names to 4 characters (instead of 5).
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:59 PM   #33
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Hi,

Man, zuupaa hackaa!!!!

I was just about to post about the headers..and u already fixed it.!I think^^

One thing thing i see in ..lets call it danniis^^ header... maybe there should be a $10 after the $11?

Trying the new..Go banned..Go banned

Man u djs from the continent..sheesh!

thanks for taking time from ur own thing,,to help others...huh.. you're not so mean^^

Guido

PS why the truncation to 4?
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:29 PM   #34
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Lo.

Just to clarify ..so u dont do any extra work for nothin,,

My issue is the dispaly onlu for any thing other than track names. I have that now.

Danniis issue is ..i think ..is that her mixer..the motormix..doesnt do anything in response to from Reaper Hui csurf.

My hui emulator..the d8b..works with the ReaperHUI csurf..

Danniis HUI emulator..the motormix..does not. It should.I believe her prb lies in either/both the header..or the running status..because..by the docs now,only she can tell us what it really sends when u push a fader... they are identical. i believe.^^

Guido
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:40 PM   #35
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[...] ..lets call it danniis^^ header... maybe there should be a $10 after the $11? [...] PS why the truncation to 4?
Because of your tiny little LCD displays. You have only 2 lines of 4 characters per track, it seems. And you need the second line for VU meters and such fun, no?

But of course feel free to experiment, change a bit of stuff like adding a byte where you think it may make sense. I don't think I used such a $11 value anywhere though? I did leave some stuff in there as notes/comments so you can understand what's going on; not everything is connected/active. Note that the $1, $2 etc. are for value substitutions, and also note that I didn't use any hex values but plain decimal ones (both me and Pd like displaying them this way much better).

It's easy to miss little details (I do so all the time!), and it's hard to debug without having the actual machine around. So it's up to you to do some debugging now. Let me hear it if you can't get it working!
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:49 PM   #36
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My issue is the dispaly onlu for any thing other than track names. I have that now.
Cool. Now perhaps try to modify the patch do do whatever it is you want it to display instead?

To get started, use the default OSC config so it sends all sorts of messages, monitor the incoming messages in Pd, and look at all the outlets without anything connected to them in [OSCroute /device /track /send /receive /fx /fxparam /fxinstparam] )

It's just about adding much more of the same kind of patching that you now have a working example of.

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Danniis issue [...] I believe her prb lies in either/both the header..or the running status..because..by the docs now,only she can tell us what it really sends when u push a fader... they are identical. i believe.^^
It would make sense that a device from a different manufacturer uses a different SysEx header - they're supposed to identify manufacturer/machine.

Let's wait until we hear back from her to see how we can help her get that thing working.
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:02 PM   #37
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Wow! You guys have really been busy on this!!! I've been tied up (not literally!) with editing and mixing work over the last few days and haven't had much time to check things out here but it looks like you've both got some interesting things that we can try with my CMLabs gear.

My c surfs do work with the REAPER HUI protocol but not properly and REAPER starts to do some very strange things pretty quickly when I try to do anything with the CMLabs gear connected.

OK, so what exactly do I need to install to test this work out that you guys have been doing?

This is all just a tad exciting to me!! It looks like there's hope for my CMLabs gear yet!
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Old 04-22-2012, 02:22 PM   #38
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[...] OK, so what exactly do I need to install to test this work out that you guys have been doing? [...]
Apart from the BMT patch Guido made, my contribution involves an attempt to have track names displayed on the control surface, and requires that you download and install Pure data-extended (free), and follow the instructions in post #29. I have no idea if it works yet, since I have no such machine here. But I guess we're not far off anyway, so please do check it out.

You're probably new to using REAPER's OSC support? Just take it one step at a time, it's not that hard at all, and of course feel free to ask for help. Success!
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:06 PM   #39
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Apart from the BMT patch Guido made, my contribution involves an attempt to have track names displayed on the control surface, and requires that you download and install Pure data-extended (free), and follow the instructions in post #29. I have no idea if it works yet, since I have no such machine here. But I guess we're not far off anyway, so please do check it out.

You're probably new to using REAPER's OSC support? Just take it one step at a time, it's not that hard at all, and of course feel free to ask for help. Success!
Hi Dannii and thx banned!.

Theres a lot on the plate here..but in a good way.
First

I would like to know some info from u dannii , if i could. U have 1 motor mix and 2 extenders?I mean is this a one piece unit? or is it 1 master and 2 extender deals? which would have three midi out jacks.

Can u hook up just one ..for now...the one with the jog wheel i gueess..and tell me if that works with the Reaper Csurf? Or maybe for u its all 3 or nothing?

and what is your level of midi expertise..i mean are u comfortable with setting up say midi ox with some virtual cables? crap..are u on windows 7?
I only ask because this would alter how detailed i have to get.

Second.

THE OVERALL between me and banned==

I only have one 'HUI'.It works great with the basics from Cockis Csurf. No bittons tho. I fixed that using bomes midi translator..the last thing is the display..showing plug in names and plug parameters on the Hui display. And to get that info from Reaper.Thats what we..banned..has been working on.

Now if 1 CMMM csurf of urs works correctly with the Reaper hui csurf ..than i have totaly misinterpeted ur problem. I believe its not supposed to suppport multiple Huis..but i could be wrong.

I guess ..could u be more explicit in the description of ur exact prob with the Reaper Csurf. phew..coulda just said that in the beginning.sry
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Old 04-22-2012, 03:21 PM   #40
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[...] showing plug in names and plug parameters on the Hui display. And to get that info from Reaper. [...]
That is easily done, starting from the example with the track names. But you will need to think of how you want to navigate plugins and their parameter names/values across many 'pages', since you have just a tiny amount of characters that you can display. Seriously, *4* characters for a parameter name or value isn't gonna cut it. It seems designed more for stuff like SND1 <--> SND8, RCV1 <---> RCV8, FX1 <-->FX8, PAR1 <--> PAR8 for changing function names, not much more. So that leaves you with even *less* than 8 parameters that you can display simultaneously, if you'd want more extensive info (i.e. display only last touched plugin name + slot number + parameter number + name + value). That's your *UI design* problem (not so much a technical one, imho). You'll need to answer questions like what buttons are still available? What layout makes most sense? Etc.
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