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Old 08-16-2015, 02:58 PM   #1
ericzang
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Default Reaper 5 - undo history is logging FX envelope changes (FIXED)

I'm on Win7x64 Reaper x64.

During playback, the undo history is picking up FX parameter envelope changes. (Fortunately, it is not logging Volume and Pan envelope changes, and perhaps other primary type envelopes.)

In the Undo History it lists:
Edit FX parameter: Track......

for each node that is played through on each track in the project, which may create many log entries.

Of course this is making undo difficult to use in some situations.

Thanks for checking it out and thanks for R5!

Last edited by ericzang; 08-16-2015 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 08-16-2015, 04:35 PM   #2
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Hi,

What plugins are you seeing his behavior with?

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Old 08-16-2015, 08:07 PM   #3
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Hi Justin, thanks very much for the reply.

I've done some more testing and so far found the problem only happens on three plugins I have (see below) - 2 Melda EQs and Nebula Pro. I see now that it does not happen every time the project plays over an envelope point. For Melda EQs, It seems to happen when the parameter value at play start is different than the previous' play start position. For Nebula there is a different behavior, as noted below.

video captures:
http://ericzang.com/tmp/env_undo_melda.gif
http://ericzang.com/tmp/env_undo_neb.gif

In the Melda video capture I am triggering start twice (except for the first time) for each cursor position. It can be seen that there is properly no undo entry created the first time.

Playing from the next cursor position (on the ramp down), the parameter value is different than before and an undo entry is created (the bug). Play is started a second time from the same position and no undo entry is created.

The next cursor position (the flat bottom) the same behavior is seen.

The ramp up position is different in that the second play trigger also creates another undo point.

The right most position (same value as the first position = .50) shows the same behavior as expected - creating a single undo point for two play starts.

The last position in the video I start play before the envelope changes, and as expected there is no undo entry created, I suppose due to the previous start position was .50.

------

The second plugin with a similar issue is Nebula Pro 3 x64. One big difference here is that a new undo entry is created also when the cursor is moved to a different value of the envelope, even when the transport is stopped.

Another difference is that the above hypothesis doesn't hold up in this example, in that even when the previous start position value was the same .50, such as at the end of the envelope curve, when start is played from before the envelopes changes, there is still an undo point created.

Also when it plays through the curve the first time in the video, there is an entry created near the first envelope change, and also after the last change.

(In video, ignore the undo entry for the melda eq, that was from the previous melda test's envelope still being active. Also, the entry Focals Monitor appears so that the scrolling of undo entries can continue to be seen.)

------

All plugins x64.
Using Melda latest version 9.08
and Nebula latest version 1.3.903

[Bug] Logged fx envelope parameter change during playback:
Melda MDynamic EQ
Melda MEqualizer (in the free bundle) (just tested with vst3 version = same behavior)
Nebula 3 Pro x64

[No Bug] No undo point logged:
Melda MFlanger
Melda MRhythmizer
Melda MBandpass
ReaEQ
JS 4 EQ
Voxengo MSED
Voxengo GlissEQ
Blue Cat Chorus
TDR Slick EQ
TB FLX (Tone Boosters)
Hornet SW34

PS The red rocks say hi

Last edited by ericzang; 08-17-2015 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 08-17-2015, 05:48 AM   #4
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Are the plugins that have this issue VST2 or VST3?
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Old 08-17-2015, 07:41 AM   #5
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All Vst2
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Old 08-17-2015, 11:50 AM   #6
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It turns out this behavior is not new with REAPER 5.0. These plugins, for whatever reason, send occasional asynchronous parameter change notifications to REAPER while being automated.

In other words, REAPER sends the automation information, the plugin says OK, REAPER goes and does something else, and a short time later the plugin says "the user moved a knob." We will try to figure out some workaround for it.
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Old 08-17-2015, 11:55 AM   #7
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thanks, perhaps it'd be helpful if I send a message to ask the plugin developer to look at this thread?
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Old 08-17-2015, 02:14 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericzang View Post
thanks, perhaps it'd be helpful if I send a message to ask the plugin developer to look at this thread?
do it, dude... it couldn't hurt. 2 heads are better than one
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Old 09-08-2015, 03:51 AM   #9
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I'm getting this constantly with Kontakt ... it's REALLY annoying.

Often after a take I hit Ctrl Z to undo ... but now it's undoing the knob positions and then wants to reload the samples each time I undo and redo and isn't easily letting me undo the recording.

Is there a way around this?

I get the annoying reloading of Kontakt samples in other cases of undo/redo in Reaper too, e.g. if I move a MIDI part onto another track and then hit undo, it reloads samples ... also if I delete a track and hit undo it reloads the samples of ALL tracks in the project, this is a nightmare when you've got 16GB of samples to load.
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Old 09-29-2015, 06:54 PM   #10
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I wanted to bump this as I am having this issue as well with DMG EQuilibrium. I never saw this behavior in Reaper 4
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Old 09-29-2015, 07:02 PM   #11
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Melda EQs are fixed for me now with Reaper 5.03 and Melda 9.10
Nebula still same problem. Changing nebula to "save minimal undo states" in Reaper did not change it. (found in Reaper's fx browser and then right click the plugin).
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Old 09-30-2015, 04:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melodeath View Post
I wanted to bump this as I am having this issue as well with DMG EQuilibrium. I never saw this behavior in Reaper 4
I'm not seeing this behavior with DMG equilibrium on Windows VST2, and the latest build of REPAER (5.04pre2). Could you be more specific about when the unwanted undo points occur?
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Old 09-30-2015, 12:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I'm not seeing this behavior with DMG equilibrium on Windows VST2, and the latest build of REPAER (5.04pre2). Could you be more specific about when the unwanted undo points occur?
I'm on OSX 10.6.8 with Reaper 5.03. Maybe that's the difference? It often happens right when I open the offending project, but it occurs throughout its time being open. I am not automating DMG; just some pre-FX volumes, and a few other non-DMG plugs.
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Old 10-02-2015, 06:57 AM   #14
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The problem seems to have been eradicated with Reaper 5.04
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Old 10-02-2015, 08:39 AM   #15
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5.04 Nebula still has the issue. The developer of Nebula tested it and found the same behavior, but he also tested Blue Cat Gain and found a similar problem, therefor felt it to be a Reaper issue. Contrary to his test, Blue Cat and all others I have tested do not have this problem.
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Old 10-04-2015, 06:03 PM   #16
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It seems since updating to 5.04 the issue is only present right when I open the project. I get three or so "Edit FX Parameter" immediately upon opening the project (I have at least three instances of DMG in the project), but haven't seen it happen after that initial loading.
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Old 10-05-2015, 07:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Kennedy View Post
annoying reloading of Kontakt samples
I have experienced this sometimes also, but I don't know yet how to reproduce it. Just today I remembered to set Kontakt to "save minimal undo states":
in Reaper's Add FX browser right click the plugin.

I need to test more to see if it will happen again.
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Old 10-09-2015, 06:01 PM   #18
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Ok, I take it all back. The issue is still present in 5.04 as before.
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Old 10-10-2015, 02:00 AM   #19
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Confirm on VST2 x64 Ample Guitar G II and Musiclab RealRick in Reaper 5.04 x64 PC.

Some midi controllers events are logged as Undo states. And the more important Undo steps are clouded by these non-sense VSTi undo states when the VSTi are numerous.

Similar projects never suffered such undo bug in Reaper 4 x64.

Last edited by vicnest; 10-10-2015 at 02:07 AM.
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Old 10-11-2015, 02:08 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicnest View Post
Confirm on VST2 x64 Ample Guitar G II and Musiclab RealRick in Reaper 5.04 x64 PC.
Confirm also... Reaper x64,AmpleGuitars.
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Old 10-29-2015, 03:44 PM   #21
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Is this being looked into? It is my one and only problem with Reaper 5, but it sort of makes me want to go back to 4. Thanks
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Old 11-05-2015, 01:19 AM   #22
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I have similar issues with izotope RX (Denoiser, Dialogue Denoiser) where every time where there is no audio and then there is audio again during playback, Reaper will log an undo. Affects both vst2 and 3 it seems. One good option (I think) would be to be able to "disable undo" on plugin by plugin basis. "save minimal undo states" doesn't help here.
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Old 11-06-2015, 06:49 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicnest View Post
Confirm on VST2 x64 Ample Guitar G II and Musiclab RealRick in Reaper 5.04 x64 PC.
Can you confirm REAPER v5.1pre4 fixes Ample Guitar G II undo point issues? (and probably Musiclab RealRick issues too, didn't test though...).
Quote:
Originally Posted by vicnest View Post
Some midi controllers events are logged as Undo states. And the more important Undo steps are clouded by these non-sense VSTi undo states when the VSTi are numerous.
I can't duplicate... Can you elaborate a bit more please? Reproductions steps?
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Old 11-16-2015, 07:36 PM   #24
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GuitarFxBox 3 also logs an undo for program change commands, at least for patch changes [which is all I've tested]

S-Gear eg otoh doesn't.

GuitarFxBox 3 is Vst2 Im all but certain. Says in the specs its 64 bit processing. It runs as "bridged 86" in Win 7 Reaper 64 and there's no separate 32 and 64 bit download of GuitarFxBox 3, so I guess its 32bit Vst2.

Last edited by morgon; 11-16-2015 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 12-01-2015, 06:36 AM   #25
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I'm also encountering this with SampleTank 3, using the VST 2 version. Loads of "Edit FX parameter:" entries are appearing in the undo history. I think it started when I added some automation to SampleTank instrument parameters.

It is really quite disruptive to workflow, any pointers to help would be much appreciated. I'm ticked "Save minimal undo states" in the FX browser for SampleTank 3 but it hasn't done the trick.

I'm using Reaper 5.1.

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Old 12-01-2015, 06:53 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endorka View Post
I'm also encountering this with SampleTank 3, using the VST 2 version. Loads of "Edit FX parameter:" entries are appearing in the undo history. I think it started when I added some automation to SampleTank instrument parameters.
Can't reproduce. Which parameters are you automating?
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Old 12-02-2015, 12:55 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Can't reproduce. Which parameters are you automating?
Volume of each instrument via MIDI channel 7, with track volume knob selected to control MIDI rather than audio.

I've attached a cut down example that demonstrates the problem, it's the Cellos track that is the culprit.
Attached Files
File Type: zip sampletank-undo-history.zip (87.5 KB, 38 views)
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Old 12-03-2015, 06:11 PM   #28
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Also encountering this problem with OS X 10.10.5, Reaper 5.1 (rev 4ff7e5). Mainly happening with Izotope RX 4 Denoiser, I think because of the automation (automating "Reduction Amount"), but haven't played around too much with other fx. Every time I start and stop playback it logs another action in Undo History ("Edit FX parameter: Izotope RX Denoiser") even though I made no such changes to the parameter. Makes it hard to use the undo function anymore. It does not appear to be happening in Reaper 4.77.
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Old 01-09-2016, 08:11 PM   #29
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Have any of you tried a clean install? I wiped my drive and reinstalled everything, now my problem went away.
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Old 01-10-2016, 03:46 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teeramusic View Post
Have any of you tried a clean install? I wiped my drive and reinstalled everything, now my problem went away.
Thanks, I haven't tried this. It would be a lot of work to rebuild all software on my main machine, but I did a clean install of windows 10 on my laptop so could give it a go there. I'll let you know the outcome when I do.

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Old 01-21-2016, 09:24 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teeramusic View Post
Have any of you tried a clean install? I wiped my drive and reinstalled everything, now my problem went away.
I've just tried this on my Windows 10 laptop. Fresh install of SampleTank 3 and a portable install of Reaper 5.12/x64.

Unfortunately the problem persists - I've set the volume envelope in the midi tracks to link to the volume setting in SampleTank 3. When the volume envelope changes, the volume parameter in SampleTank 3 changes, and the undo history logs it as an event. If the track is left running for any period of time, these events mount up. There could be 20 or more of these in a couple of bars of playback, and I actually have to eyeball the undo history to make sure I go back to the correct bit.

It's a real workflow killer, and I'd love to sort it out, or see it sorted out. If there is anything I can do to help, sending example files etc., just let me know.

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Old 01-22-2016, 07:49 AM   #32
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Potential fix coming in 5.15pre1 soon (check the pre-release forum later today)
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Old 01-22-2016, 11:12 AM   #33
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I just put in a FR which IMO would solve this issue (and one I've been having myself):
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=171750
Please check it out and let me know what you think.

But now I see this!
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Potential fix coming in 5.15pre1 soon (check the pre-release forum later today)
Fingers crossed.
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Old 01-22-2016, 11:40 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Potential fix coming in 5.15pre1 soon (check the pre-release forum later today)
It works - thank you! :-)

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Old 01-23-2016, 04:14 PM   #35
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Not related to FX envelope changes, but I just noticed a VSTi which produces lots of undo entries by just loading it (and me not doing anything).

http://i.imgur.com/l2rjsaA.gif

http://samcycle.blogspot.de/2011/01/...1-virtual.html

(Synthedit/-maker, I'd guess, dunno if that's relevant)

R5.15pre2 x86, Win 8.1 x64
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Old 02-11-2016, 08:35 AM   #36
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Hello Guys. I'm still noticing this with Soundtoys' Echoboy only. When I hit play, the undo history is logging parameter changes on every tempo change. I guess with tempo changes, Echoboy must adjust its internal Syncing timing so these are probably the parameter that are registered.

Is there a preference somewhere to tell Reaper what we want included in the Undo logs?
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Old 02-11-2016, 09:10 AM   #37
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Still getting this kind of thing with iZotope RX Dialog DeNoiser in Auto Mode.
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Old 02-11-2016, 09:47 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lexaproductions View Post
Hello Guys. I'm still noticing this with Soundtoys' Echoboy only. When I hit play, the undo history is logging parameter changes on every tempo change. I guess with tempo changes, Echoboy must adjust its internal Syncing timing so these are probably the parameter that are registered.

Is there a preference somewhere to tell Reaper what we want included in the Undo logs?
What version of Echoboy are you using? I can't duplicate here, using 5.0.1.

Last edited by Justin; 02-11-2016 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 02-11-2016, 06:33 PM   #39
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Ah it might it. I'm still on EBoy 4

I'll try the demo of EBoy 5 to see...

Thanks!
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Old 02-19-2016, 10:56 AM   #40
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same problem here with u-he diva (AU)
is there any workaround?
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