Go Back   Cockos Confederated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER Q&A, Tips, Tricks and Howto

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-09-2008, 05:00 PM   #1
w00t
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 133
Default [HOWTO] WineAsio + REAPER for linux beginners!!

===============================

wineasio_REAPER:

A guide designed for beginners to linux


=================================

/* preface */


Hello REAPER community! I am blessed with a little spare time today and i would like to give something back to this wonderful movement we call REAPER. There is a lot of talk around here about Linux (mostly audio related) and some of you may be curious about Linux and how it could be used in conjunction with REAPER. You may be thinking to yourself "Hmm seems interesting, but I don't even know WHERE to start!" Well, hopefully this guide will serve as a starting point for people who think just that, and of course anyone who wants a very simple A to B guide to getting up and running with REAPER on Linux.
w00t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 05:01 PM   #2
w00t
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 133
Default

section I: Genesis- in the beginning


Okay since this is a guide aimed for beginners, lets try and get some terminology and what not out of the way. If you start reading this stuff and you get bored or feel you are "above" it, feel free to scroll to more relevant parts




Im not going to dive into a deep history of Linux, but for our sake I will go ahead and define Linux as this:

"...A Unix-like computer operating system. Linux is one of the most prominent examples of free software and open source development; typically all underlying source code can be freely modified, used, and redistributed by anyone."


(this is taken from the Wikipedia article on Linux, feel free to read up on that for more on the history etc...)



Why is this important? well, I feel its important to understand what Linux and its community of users are, and what they stand for. The way some of the things work in Linux won't seem so "weird" when thought about with this knowledge. What I'm trying to say is, a lot of the differences in Linux versus windows or OS X have to do with the fact that the Linux community is an OPEN one, not simply because they want to remain cryptic and obscure and secretive or "different".

At its base, Linux has a Linux kernel. this is what makes everything go. you can Google to find out exactly how this works, but for this guide's purpose we will call it the "Linux brain". as like with almost everything in Linux, you will have choices with the kernel. some kernels are for 64 bit architecture, some are for servers, some are "generic"....we are going to mostly be concerned with what is called a "realtime enabled" kernel or "realtime kernel", as it has to do mostly with low latency operation ala the ones we do with audio in REAPER. dont worry you can get a special kernel like this with a few clicks in our software or "package" manager. (more on this later)


One issue that causes a lot of confusion about Linux is its many [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_distribution]"distributions"[url]. One way to think about distributions is like ice cream flavors. The Ice cream shop has all those ice cream flavors, but that doesn't deter you from going in to get a cone or two does it :P . In Linux there is a lot of "choice", and much can be argued about having too much choice is a bad thing, but is it worse than having no choice at all? We'll leave the philosophical stuff for another day but lets get a basic rundown of what we mean.


Distributions, or "distros" for short, are complete Linux systems based on various styles of Linux. you have different package/software architectures all based around the "Linux" kernel ...dont worry your head about that, but there are a few different architectures: Knoppix, Debian, RPM/RED HAT, Slackware and Gentoo are probably the most common. Think of these as "methods to eat the ice cream" , like cone, cup, over apple pie etc...but the base of a distribution is just one part. The "flavor" typically comes from what a distribution is intended to be used for. Is it for small business servers? Is it optimized for Older hardware? Or maybe it is for Multimedia? Which desktop environment does it use? Which file-manager? This is where the choice in Linux is great. you get tons of different "flavors" to choose from. In this guide, we will be choosing from the Ubuntu flavors )


(note: Our guide basically forces you to use an "Ubuntu" distribution, which is hands down the BEST distro for beginners to Linux in my experience, in particular people coming from windows. The most important part of this guide will be done in Ubuntu so in order to follow it to a "T", you must also use an Ubuntu distribution or at the very least, a Debian based distribution.)






As a long time Windows/Mac user, the first thing you will probably recognize IMHO (would like feedback on this) is the difference in how you typically install a program. This will most likely feel immediately foreign to a Windows users for example. The modern Linux desktop uses what is called a "package manager" which is a utility that keeps your Linux software up to date, and offers you the optional software you may want/need in the future. This may sound weird, but its actually a GREAT concept. a concept that doesnt....really work in the current model for 3rd party/proprietary software on closed source OS platforms. Its immensely powerful, and easy to use whether by command line in the terminalwith apt or the GUI based applications like Synaptic. software is kept in "repositories", which store the "packages" to be downloaded and installed by the Linux system as the user sees fit. You have different kinds of software repositories as well. Typically the install disc is a repository, then you have official repositories for your particular Linux distribution which keep system packages and bundled/official software up to date. then you have 3rd party repositories which can keep other software (which could include some proprietary stuff) that you can manually add to you "repository" list. typically, they come with special "keys" to let you know when you download a new version of something, your downloading from its "official" source. How cool would it be in Windows to open up a "package manager" and search for "programming tools" and have whats available ready to download from secure repositories to test out! Ahh well...maybe one day...probably wouldnt work though...




(synaptic)








So now that you know a little about how linux works, how about some sound? For our intents and purposes, I will talk a little about "Advanced Linux Sound Architecture" or ALSA for short. This is typically how you get Linux to make noise. ALSA is a great project that is continually getting better, and supports lots of GOOD audio cards such as echo MIA, M AUDIO, Hammerfall, lots of "factory" cards and much more....so as you may have guessed, ALSA is more or less a foundation of audio drivers for Linux. you can refer to their web pages for more on that project.
Another audio project to become familiar with in linux (and this has more to do with 'manipulating' audio as we reaperites love to do) is the Jack Audio Connection Kit (JACK) project. A simple way of thinking about this is to think of Propellerhead's Rewire technology. The twist with JACK is, the JACK audio server is the "rewire Master" and when launched, any JACK compatible audio app becomes connectible to any OTHER JACK compatible app that you may launch. most Linux native audio apps are jack compatible which means you can do a lot of interesting, powerful routing. this is integral for "low latency" audio on Linux as well, so even if complex routing doesn't stir you, its there and your gonna need JACK anyway to achieve REAPER on Linux so do yourself a favor and familiarize yourself with it (JACK that is) just a taste.


And lastly lets talk about how we get REAPER (the Windows version) to work with Linux. WINE (Wine Is Not an Emulator) is an Open Source implementation of the Windows API on top of X, OpenGL, and Unix. from the WINE HQ website:

"....Think of Wine as a compatibility layer for running Windows programs. Wine does not require Microsoft Windows, as it is a completely free alternative implementation of the Windows API consisting of 100% non-Microsoft code, however Wine can optionally use native Windows DLLs if they are available. Wine provides both a development toolkit for porting Windows source code to Unix as well as a program loader, allowing many unmodified Windows programs to run on x86-based Unixes, including Linux, FreeBSD, Mac OS X, and Solaris."


Wine is what we will basically be using to run REAPER. The REAPER dev team do a great job of keeping REAPER "Wine friendly". in conjunction with Wine, we use a special ASIO driver, aptly named "WineAsio" which we use within wine to be able to use a true blue windows vst host to use windows-compiled VSTs, and any other great DAW features like midi sequencing, in-house effects etc. There will be more on this as we go through the guide. lots of info on Wine and what it can/cannot do on teh internetz.






Hopefully this can give someone who knew nothing or little about Linux a little background to lean on. I tried to keep the "technobabble" to a minimal and i hope it can benefit someone who reads this, because a lot of stuff written about linux is very "passionate" which is great but sometimes your in tangents that may confuse newer users sometimes. Perhaps watering it down will spark interest in someone who can grow to become an 'expert" themselves! Im certainly no linux "master", just as you don't have to be a "Windows" master and can be perfectly fine....



-------------------------------------------

Last edited by w00t; 01-09-2008 at 05:04 PM.
w00t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 05:02 PM   #3
w00t
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 133
Default

section II: The Game Plan




Okay, so we have gotten the primer out of the way, what exactly do we NEED to do to get REAPER working in Linux? well this guide will give you the play-by-play rundown, and all things needed to make this work. make sure you can cover all criteria or it may not work out in the end....


Hardware requirements
---------------------

-PC with HD space for linux
-ALSA compatible soundcard
-internet connection (the faster the better obviously); attempting to do this with packages alone/internet on another computer is NOT for the beginner, at least without someone who knows what they are doing close by

(hint: to check out hardware compatibility, use a Linux "livecd" the one you plan on installing of course. this will let you know how much of your hardware works "out the box" by loading up the OS in your ram...when you restart the comp witout the live cd in, it boots as normal.)




Software requirements
--------------------
-linux distro (we are going to be using newest (7.10) Ubuntu flavor(s) )
-realtime kernel
-JACK
-qjackctl (gui jack configuration and server)
-newset WINE
-newest wineasio driver for WINE
-and of course REAPER





So it goes like this: we install Linux, get a realtime kernel, install JACK, get "realtime" going, install WINE, install REAPER in WINE, enable wineasio and then...MAKE NOISE!!!!!!! I will go in detailed steps in the HOWTO section, this is just a simple summary of what to do for reference.



first things first: get Ubuntu Linux installed and ready to go. Pick your "flavor"; Ubuntu the normal setup with gnome/nautilus, Kubuntu with KDE; Xubuntu with xfce/thunar (i use this version as i find it much lighter and pleasant than gnome). Please try and get this done on your own. I flirted with writing a part to show you how to do this, but there are {numerous guides on this available on the internet}, and this thing is already a little long winded. So go forth, get linux installed, and once you have that done, come back and go to section III. you can do it!!! lol

---------------------------------------------


new edit: 404NotFound has created an excellent tutorial for getting reaper up and running from a 64studio live cd. so for you 64 bit people I encourage you to try it! remember with a live cd you are just *checking it out*, not actually installing so thats even more incentive just to see whats up.

just follow the link below

http://404notfound.bplaced.net/

Last edited by w00t; 02-22-2008 at 01:30 PM.
w00t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 05:03 PM   #4
w00t
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 133
Default

section III: lets get going (the HOWTO)

Okay now we have a basic Ubuntu desktop install going. now look in your software menu. under "System" you should see a program called "Synaptic Package Manager" (in Kubuntu its called "Adept") ...this was the package manager I mentioned in section I. this will be your best friend in Linux for a lot of reasons. ...but alas we will not be using it (a lot) in this guide! it can easily be used for this guide, but we will be using another utility called "terminal" (Kubuntu's is called "Konsole") to achieve most of this stuff very easily and quickly. In linux you use the terminal to run commands and whatnot while bypassing typical GUI protocol. it is imperative to a good linux experience to familiarize yourself with the terminal at least a little bit.





(terminal)





....for now lets go into our package manager and under the settings menu look for repositories.... make sure under "ubuntu software" we have the "main" "universe" and "multiverse" repositories checked. you may also want to enable the "multiverse" and "restricted drivers" as well because they may come in handy for codec issues and other things. once this is done close the repositories dialog window and hit the "refresh" button. this will refresh your package manager's index and will prepare us to get all the software we will need to make REAPER work. After this, you can close Synaptic and we will turn to the terminal. (should be under accessories in your program menu)



first lets download/install some stuff we will need. in order to do this, you will need "administrative privileges" aka your "password"; we prefix commands that need this with a "sudo" flag in Ubuntu and most Linux environments.


in the terminal copy and paste this command:


Code:
sudo apt-get install linux-image-rt jackd jack-rack qjackctl wine

what does this do you ask? its basically a package manager shortcut that will download and install the realtime kernel, jack audio and its gui, and the wine we talked about earlier. If you used "Ubuntu Studio" you should already have a "realtime' kernel and perhaps the jack stuff. thats okay, because our command will just tell us if we have the newest versions installed and not do anything in that case.


when this is done, you will need to restart and reboot into the "realtime" kernel. you will want to use this kernel for realtime everytime you wanna make music.


okay now back on the ubuntu desktop running the realtime kernel, lets open up the terminal again.

(and for beginners, if you are not sure if you picked the right kernel use the command "uname-r" in the terminal without quotes. this will print which kernel you are currently using. it should have -rt at the end or else you picked the wrong one and have to reboot)



Okay know we are going to do a little "studio preparation". most of this is shamelessly taken from the ubuntu guide, so please refer to it for issues such as firewire cards, multiple sound card issues, other linux audio applications and a few other specific inquiries. I tried to take only what was relevant to the guide as setting up REAPER on linux. We will be using the terminal for this portion. copy/paste the commands one by one until finished. i will briefly describe what each command is doing. and also, If you chose UbuntuStudio as your ubuntu version, you should not have to do this. this is specifically for the 'normal' ubuntu distros.


1. Making sure ALSA stuff is kosher

Code:
sudo apt-get install alsa-firmware-loaders alsa-tools alsa-tools-gui
This will make sure you have all the alsa stuff...in particualr the alsa-tools gui will proably come in handy for adjusting various properties of your soundcard.



2. Enabling realtime support

Code:
 
 sudo su -c 'echo @audio - rtprio 99 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'
 sudo su -c 'echo @audio - memlock 250000 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'
 sudo su -c 'echo @audio - nice -10 >> /etc/security/limits.conf'

in order to bypass the technobabble, this basically gives your 'audio' group permissions to access realtime functionality. You may notice that the commands look a little different, thats because of the nature of what they are doing. Linux beginners just need to know to use these commands with caution, and to copy/paste them. DO NOT go around using sudo su everywhere! you will regret it!! now lets keep moving...


3. ALSA sequencer module
Code:
sudo modprobe snd-seq

we are going to need this for alsa midi, the midi protocol currently used with wineasio. typically this is not a module that is loaded on boot up, but the above command loads it when entered. to have it persistently load across boot ups, we have to add it to the etc/modules file. Its actually very easy to do with a simple terminal command:

Code:
sudo su -c 'echo snd-seq >> /etc/modules'

and now we dont have to worry about that anymore!




4. Timer resolution

Code:
sudo sysctl -w dev.rtc.max-user-freq=1024
Code:
sudo su -c 'echo dev.rtc.max-user-freq=1024 >> /etc/sysctl.conf'

this ensures that the kernel has a proper timer resolution for midi. the default is 250 hz and these commands change it to 1024. (the second command gives you this resolution every time you boot)



5. Secondary USB keyboard/soundcard fix

Code:
sudo su -c 'echo options snd-usb-audio index=-2 >> /etc/modprobe.d/alsa-base'
this should help if linux confuses a usb keyboard or secondary audio device as he primary device. this usually happens when you leave the usb device plugged in and on while booting up.



addition (5.5 wineasio/jack simlink)

Im going to add this step in because im not sure if you have to do this still or if wineasio already looks. If it already does it it wont hurt to try this command. What it does is create a symlink between wineasio in jack so so jack is activated everytime wineasio in used:

Code:
sudo ln -s /usr/lib/libjack-0.100.0.so.0 /usr/lib/libjack.so.0

that should take care of that




6. setting up JACK


For setting up JACK, ymmv [Your mileage may vary] with a lot of things, but this guide should get you going. make sure you can launch jack control (the terminal command is "qjackctl" without quotes, or look in your program menu under multimedia for "jack control". hit the setup button and make sure realtime is checked, and softmode is checked. here is a picture of what mine looks like for my audiophile 2496 card.





Also refer to the guide previously mentioned for more info and troubleshooting. BEFORE CONTINUING, make sure from jack control that you can start the server with realtime and have no problems...if it times out shortly after starting, ten you have some troubleshooting to do. I will help here where i can, but again, this will very significantly between hardware. once you can verify that the JACk server can run in realtime with no problems, you can close JACK control and move on in the guide.




Alright! our studio preparation is done. lets move on to the wine stuff now.









In the terminal, type this command:

Code:
winecfg

This is the command we use to setup wine. It should bring up a config dialog for wine.




Now to setup a few things.....under the 'applications' tab, with 'default settings' highlighted, you will see a drop down menu where you can pick the "windows" version. it defaults to windows 2000, but switch this to XP. now go to the 'audio' tab. It will give you some driver options here. what we want to pick is ALSA and only ALSA. make sure NOTHING else is checked, or midi will NOT work.

Do not worry about/mess with DirectSound settings.


Now under the 'graphics' tab, un-check 'allow the window manager to control the windows' ...this will give all wine windows the default windows look, versus using your linux window manager. this gives improved performance. Once you get your feet wet a little bit, you may play around with this to see what works best for you.

Last edited by w00t; 01-11-2008 at 10:52 AM.
w00t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 05:03 PM   #5
w00t
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 133
Default

Okay now that we have done that, we are very close! now lets get WineAsio sorted m'kay?
wineasio.0.72


Here is an alternative method mentiond by xtd, thanks! This is like installing via synaptic with a little twist because the Jakclab wineasio patches are RPM packages, designed natively for SUSE/REDHAT iirc. so If the link doesnt work try this method. Or if your comfortable with it. if not dont worry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtd
Nice post.

Little addition for the wineasio part :

instead of d/l the .dll, you could have a nice .deb to (un)install using alien and the wineasio suse rpm.

This part would then looks like :

Install alien binary package converter using
Code:
sudo apt-get install alien
D/l the last wineasio rpm from the ftp using e.g.
Code:
wget ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/jacklab/SUSE-10.2/RPMS/i586/wineasio-0.7.3-3.1.i586.rpm
Transform the package using alien :
Code:
sudo alien --to-deb wineasio-0.7.3-3.1.i586.rpm
Then install the package newly created :
Code:
dpkg -i wineasio-0.7.3-3.1.i586.deb


this links to the newest wineasio.dll.so (0.72) hand rolled by me on Xubuntu 7.10 this should work for everyone using newest Ubuntu versions. download this and put the file on your desktop (if its not already there)

(anyone who needs more info on how to roll your own (compile) wineasio, just drop a line....also if someone has a more permanent means of storing the file, please let me now...I'd appreciate it...)


Fire up the terminal again, and type this in

Code:
cd Desktop
This will take the terminal to your desktop path (cd afaik stands for 'change directory')

Once you've done that, type this command:

Code:
sudo cp wineasio.dll.so /usr/lib/wine
this will copy the wineasio dll to the win lbirary, and will take care of permissions for you. without some sort of admin access (aka 'sudo') you cannot modify system files.

now, once thats done, type this command:

Code:
regsvr32 wineasio.dll
You should see a return of something like "wineasio.dll successfully registered." once you see that....well, we can see that proverbial light at the end of the tunnel!
Now we get into some stuff your probably familiar with. head over to Reaper.fm and to downloads and grab a hot copy of the newest build, or whatever build you wish i guess. download the .exe to the Desktop.

Now, once again from the terminal navigate to the Desktop:

Code:
cd Desktop
Now enter this command to run the reaper installer

Code:
wine reaper2030-install.exe
* you might need to adjust the build number, respectively.


(alternatively you can usually right-click the file and "open with wine" , but this is a more precise method and stays uniform with the rest of the guide...also, it helps n00bs get used to the terminal a little bit more, and of course the terminal returns errors that may help in troubleshooting...DO NOT close the terminal while installer is running or whenever you run REAPER or jack from the terminal)



you should get the install dialog as you normally would under Windows. I usually uncheck rewire and cd burning, but i dont think it REALLY matters. then just install as you normally would. I bet you wanna know where this mysterious "C:" is for wine, huh? Well its simply in your home folder inside a folder called ".wine"

(the full path is /home/userName/.wine)


Once its all installed, do not run REAPER right away. We have some stuff we need to go over first. let's go ahead and navigate to the ".wine" directory in your home folder. If you don't see it, that means "hidden" folders are not in view. hit ctrl+H and that should solve that. Inside the .wine folder, you should see a folder called "drive_c". Think of this as the c drive in any normal windows install. Once in there, make a folder that sits along with the windows and Program Files folders called something like "vstPlugins" we will use this as our [primary] vst plugin folder. i would encourage you to go grab some freebie "dll-only" style vsts and plop them in there. we will use these to test out our wineasio reaper! (im going to be using {xoxos' "sounds of nature" }thunder module for this guide)






Okay, now that we have done that, lets fire up REAPER. if you put the icon on your desktop, double clicking it should open REAPER. I personally like to run from the terminal, becuase i can see any errors or "missing dlls" that give me trouble (more on this later).

To launch from terminal, use this command:

Code:
wine /home/YourUserName/.wine/drive_c/Program*Files/REAPER/reaper.exe

replace "your user name" with ...your user name

(hint: the terminal keeps a log of your previous commands. to run reaper at a later time, you can just use the "up" arrow to browse old commands used, and find the reaper one.)



Once in there lets do a little configuring. Ctrl+P to bring up preferences, and go on down to Audio->devices. change driver type to asio, and it should automatically bring up wineasio. it should basically look like this:




okay lets go down to "vst" preferences, and add our vstPlugin path we created (you did put a dll or wo in there..right?) click the "browse button, and go to the "my computer" and "c:" paths. You should see the folder we created, just select that. Also before you are done if you have a midi controller hooked to your soundcard, make sure to check it in the midi tab preferences. If you have a usb midi controller....well it's probably gonna be a little more difficult to get it working, but i cant go into that in this guide. sorry.







okay go ahead and scan the plugins, save/apply all changes, create a track and add some fx by hitting the fx button of course. pull up the vst you want to load.





then click it. If all goes well it should load the vst like it does in Windows. try using your midi. Its wonderful isnt it? you are NOW using REAPER in Linux with wineasio! check your latency in the upper right...pretty sweet eh?

Last edited by w00t; 01-24-2008 at 09:20 AM.
w00t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 05:09 PM   #6
w00t
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 133
Default

section IV: FYI and closing statements


FYI: other things you should know

- When installing stuff to wine, its very important to to use the terminal for troubleshooting. a lot of times the terminal will tell you that a .dll is missing when an installer goes weirdo on you. try downloading the .dll mention in the terminal and putting them in your /.wine/drive_c/windows/system32/ folder (no need to register them like with wineasio.dll)...you'll find that after a few common dll are sorted, stuff works more often than not!

-there will always be an "overhead" when using wine when compared to running it natively. this is because the wine api is running OVER the linux, so while JACK may give you some crazy good latencies, dont expect to be able to function as smoothly as native Windows just yet....for most its just fine though. some of the major issues mostly have to do with the gui (being slower or slightly choppy at times). So on that note, turn off all 3d/compiz effects when using REAPER with wineasio, it keeps your cpu stress to a minimum. In fact, once you get your feet a little wet, I sugggest setting up an alternative lightweight linux desktop (fluxbox,blackbox.openbox etc) for use when you are making music. That way you know you resources aren't being ate up by the pretty desktops. This will be my next linux/REAPER guide...look for that soon



-vsts are not always going to work. whether its some weird library it needs or some copy protection, some just dont work. this has more to do with wine, but just be prepared to test and see what works. most free dll only plugs will work. If your having issues with a plug you think can work, let me know and we'll see if we can get you sorted.

-you do not need to run "jack control" whenever you want to use reaper. it [wineasio] will run the jack server without the control gui. you WILL need to use the gui to configure your settings, and make sure the server runs realtime without problems. Also wineasio apps show up in the jack control connections, so use that if you want to chain reaper with other JACK compatible apps, whether they are wineasio or not! Pretty friggin' sweet huh?


-There are tons of other audio apps to explore with linux. this guide really only focuses on what is need to run REAPER. I encourage you to sit in papa google's lap and ask what else is out there


( i may add more here)







Well we have come to the end of the road for my guide. It is very long it seems so, i will be scanning it thoroughly for errors and erroneous crap, I hope it can be functional for you guys. if you have problems, issues, complaints, praises whatever post them in this thread. I would like to thank first Cockos for the incredible REAPER, and their support for wine use, hope this can serve as a small token of my appreciation for what you guys are doing . without that this wouldnt be possible. Then next i would like to thank the Jacklab community, for forging the way of WineAsio. You guys rock so hard! and that means you: Edogawa, Drumfix, "Lump" and the lot of ya!!! see you guys in #jacklab as usual when im begging for help (lol)



now get going you linux musicians, and make me a "dont fear the reaper" cover song!!!! with even MORE cowbell!!!!!


peace yall,
w00t
w00t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2008, 05:11 PM   #7
w00t
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 133
Default

[saving this space for additions] please feel free to post questions

Last edited by w00t; 01-11-2008 at 10:54 AM.
w00t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2008, 05:04 PM   #8
Alex Stone
Human being with feelings
 
Alex Stone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Reaper Fine Arts Department
Posts: 1,607
Default

Woot, good stuff. This will help a great deal.

Thanks!

Alex.
__________________
www.openoctave.org
Alex Stone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2008, 10:15 PM   #9
xtd
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3
Default Little addition

Nice post.

Little addition for the wineasio part :

instead of d/l the .dll, you could have a nice .deb to (un)install using alien and the wineasio suse rpm.

This part would then looks like :

Install alien binary package converter using
Code:
sudo apt-get install alien
D/l the last wineasio rpm from the ftp using e.g.
Code:
wget ftp://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/linux/misc/jacklab/SUSE-10.2/RPMS/i586/wineasio-0.7.3-3.1.i586.rpm
Transform the package using alien :
Code:
sudo alien --to-deb wineasio-0.7.3-3.1.i586.rpm
Then install the package newly created :
Code:
dpkg -i wineasio-0.7.3-3.1.i586.deb
xtd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2008, 10:56 PM   #10
Wombat
Human being with feelings
 
Wombat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: South Australia
Posts: 119
Default

w00t, please see my PM for effusive thanks. Quick question:
when I fire up Reaper I get the thin, anaemic looking Wine fonts in the various windows headings. In Wine config. I've un-checked 'allow the window manager to control the windows' but that didn't help. Also tried copying Windows TTFs to the Wine folder. The font changed in Reaper, but it's still tiny and looks dreadful. What's the arcane secret, if you please?
Cheers.

Last edited by Wombat; 01-12-2008 at 11:42 PM.
Wombat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 07:14 AM   #11
Drumfix
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 31
Default

I copied (on Suse 10.3) all windows tt fonts into
/usr/share/fonts/truetype

This way they can be used with all X applications, not only
with wine.

For other distros this directory could well be located under
/usr/X11R6/lib/fonts or something. Have a look.
Drumfix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 07:37 AM   #12
Alex Stone
Human being with feelings
 
Alex Stone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Reaper Fine Arts Department
Posts: 1,607
Default

Drum, you just solved the same problem for me too. Thanks!

Alex.
__________________
www.openoctave.org
Alex Stone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 08:57 AM   #13
w00t
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 133
Default

Yeah thanks Drumfix I was just going to talk about the fonts...thanks for dropping in!


xtd: I like the idea of using deb/alien, so I will add this to the end notes as a way/option to keep up with newer versions of the wineasio dll. I personally prefer to roll my own wineasio, but this method once setup may be easier for a beginner. thanks for checking out the post!
w00t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2008, 09:20 AM   #14
404NotFound
Human being with feelings
 
404NotFound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Berlin, GER
Posts: 199
Default

There is also a package named msttfcorefonts (or similar) which you can install via Synaptic.
404NotFound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2008, 01:43 AM   #15
Wombat
Human being with feelings
 
Wombat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: South Australia
Posts: 119
Default

Thanks here, too. There's also a package I found called Display Set which seems to work really well. Sorry, I've lost the web address, but it should be easy enough to track down.
Wombat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2008, 10:04 AM   #16
w00t
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 133
Default

updated links and some of the guide...so I's be bumpin teh thread
w00t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2008, 02:08 AM   #17
eternal
Human being with feelings
 
eternal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40
Default Sweet Guide, 1 Problem

hey great guide... especially gettin the wineasio part installed!

Slight problem fo me however, any help would be MUCH appreciated.. when i start reaper using wineasio, reaper just shuts itself off. I can use directout not too bad without asio, however often when I hit play it just sounds like really loud fuzz/noise and damages my ears when using headphones.

Another note... Jack control seems to show 100's of these same errors regardless of setup parameters:

"delay of 21594.000 usecs exceeds estimated spare time of 21274.000; restart ..."

Pls help!!

Thanks
eternal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 10:48 AM   #18
w00t
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 133
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal View Post
hey great guide... especially gettin the wineasio part installed!

Slight problem fo me however, any help would be MUCH appreciated.. when i start reaper using wineasio, reaper just shuts itself off. I can use directout not too bad without asio, however often when I hit play it just sounds like really loud fuzz/noise and damages my ears when using headphones.

Another note... Jack control seems to show 100's of these same errors regardless of setup parameters:

"delay of 21594.000 usecs exceeds estimated spare time of 21274.000; restart ..."

Pls help!!

Thanks

Hi. can you give me some info on your setup? soundcard, ubuntu version and whatnot? also, do you have a midi interface setup with jack?

sorry for responding late, so many things going on...



I used to get an inssue with wineasio that would cause reaper to slow down to a crawl when i enabled midi in...but i think thats been eliminated at least here for me (i think it was a wine problem more than anything) so let me know a little more about your setup and the issues and ill do the best i can to help
w00t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2008, 11:42 PM   #19
juanito
Human being with feelings
 
juanito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 196
Default

Bravo! w00t Bravo!
juanito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2008, 01:50 AM   #20
eternal
Human being with feelings
 
eternal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40
Default my probs

Quote:
Originally Posted by w00t View Post
Hi. can you give me some info on your setup? soundcard, ubuntu version and whatnot? also, do you have a midi interface setup with jack?

sorry for responding late, so many things going on...
Hey man. Certainly no need to apologize for replying a day after my post! I don't let any support go by unnoticed!

Anyways, my setup is as follows...

-Vostro 1400 Notebook running UbuntuStudio7.10 (ditched microshaft completely however still hunting for a decent Linux timecode vinyl setup which is kind of depressing, but another story all together!)

-C-Media '3DSound' USB Sound plug (built-in audio refuses to work on my laptop w ubuntu so I use this...way better sound and latency than my ac97 w windows)

-Using newest wine that just came out, w Wineasio 0.72, No Midi enabled...(I can turn the buffers and latency up max and still get same errors)

Should I just assume WineAsio doesn't like my soundcard? I own a maya44usb interface however its not currently in my posession, I have not tried it with this setup yet, but I do really like the portability of makin beats on the go without luggn it around...

thanks!!
eternal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2008, 09:01 AM   #21
w00t
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 133
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal View Post
Hey man. Certainly no need to apologize for replying a day after my post! I don't let any support go by unnoticed!

Anyways, my setup is as follows...

-Vostro 1400 Notebook running UbuntuStudio7.10 (ditched microshaft completely however still hunting for a decent Linux timecode vinyl setup which is kind of depressing, but another story all together!)

-C-Media '3DSound' USB Sound plug (built-in audio refuses to work on my laptop w ubuntu so I use this...way better sound and latency than my ac97 w windows)

-Using newest wine that just came out, w Wineasio 0.72, No Midi enabled...(I can turn the buffers and latency up max and still get same errors)

Should I just assume WineAsio doesn't like my soundcard? I own a maya44usb interface however its not currently in my posession, I have not tried it with this setup yet, but I do really like the portability of makin beats on the go without luggn it around...

thanks!!


Do you know what basic chip this soundcard is? Is it listed in the Alsa page? it could be the card, but Im not familiar with this card so much. In contrast, how did the '3d sound' work in windows? did it have its own asio drivers? or asio4all?



on an acer laptop i had its HDA intel card gave me the most problems in linux...I couldnt get realtime going on it in a "duplex" manner, which basically means if i wanted to do "realtime" i had t pick either recording or playback, but not both. that was a while ago so Im not sure whats been fxed since then but from what i can tell certain stock type cards are still having issues.


okay, see if you can google which 'chipset' you are. here are the ones listed in Alsa as being supported.

http://www.alsa-project.org/main/ind...Vendor-C-Media


google is a good place, ubuntu forums are a good place to search for this as well. soemthing like C media [your card model] alsa compatibility etc....


if your one of those chipsets [that are supported] we should be good to go, with maybe a little config'ing to get it working properly. dont give up! let me know what you dig up, this thread can always use a bump lol



peace
w00t


ps it also seems alsa has support for Audiotrack usb cards (maya44?) so maybe that other card works well...but lets focus on the 3dsound since that is what you prefer.... at least for now
w00t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2008, 04:47 AM   #22
eternal
Human being with feelings
 
eternal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 40
Default alsa

hey thnks.

the model number says PD552 on the actual device, however all I can see is 'USB Sound' everywhere in software. I think alsa must support it because I can control it with the alsa mixer.

Still kinda green with alsa/jack etc... whenever I use jack I think somehings gonna explode or somethin.. lol

Also yea.. hda intel no realtime in ubuntu, only generic works. But in windows on my book its squeely and noisy and straightup shite to listen to anyways.

Last edited by eternal; 02-05-2008 at 04:52 AM.
eternal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2008, 06:05 AM   #23
jimmer
Human being with feelings
 
jimmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 74
Default jack error

hello w00t. I am very grateful for this guide, however i seem to be having a problem at the end of setting up jack with the rt kernel. I followed all the directions but at the end i start jack again and it throws the following error:

Could not connect to JACK server as client.
Please check the messages window for more info.

then the messages window says this:



please help... i would really like this to work...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
REAPER - Its in There
jimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2008, 10:52 AM   #24
LateStarter
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 107
Default

This sort of stuff should go in the User Guide or in the wiki or somewhere. I think my next OS stop will be Linux rather than the current Vista.
LateStarter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2008, 03:41 PM   #25
StepOne
Human being with feelings
 
StepOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 950
Default

How does Linux performance using Wine compare to native XP performance in Reaper? Will I be able to monitor in real-time at low latencies as efficiently as in Windows?
StepOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2008, 09:49 AM   #26
w00t
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 133
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmer View Post
hello w00t. I am very grateful for this guide, however i seem to be having a problem at the end of setting up jack with the rt kernel. I followed all the directions but at the end i start jack again and it throws the following error:

Could not connect to JACK server as client.
Please check the messages window for more info.

then the messages window says this:



please help... i would really like this to work...


hi jimmer...sorry for the delayed response, can you please post your setup info? audio card, ubuntu version etc? I cant really help you without these things. I will tell you i do get exit status 256 a lot, so its probably just a setting here or there.


when you narrow down what card you have, a quick search of the ubuntu forums oro even google will usually turn up the info you need. Im always glad to help, but would at least need to know this information first. that goes for anyone that needs "help"



thanks
w00t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2008, 09:58 AM   #27
w00t
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 133
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StepOne View Post
How does Linux performance using Wine compare to native XP performance in Reaper? Will I be able to monitor in real-time at low latencies as efficiently as in Windows?


audio wise, its right on par. it performs very well as asio in windows and in some cases the latency is much lower. However with that said, due to its nature, its more of a strain on the cpu because of the wine having to be an extra layer of instruction to be interpreted. the sympotms usually are slower gui, and slower gui redraw. (if you have trouble with the gui, usually minimizing then restoring the window will fix it)...never anything much more than that. remember to NOT use compiz when doing huge projects to conserve all cpu, and remember in winecfg to uncheck "let linux decorate the WINE windows"....this should maximise performance.


you can experiment and i encourage it, ultimately different settings will be picked in different scenarios. some have even reported that running a fixed virtual desktop in WINE for REAPER makes it work a lot better, although i havent tested that theory much.




the best thing to do is try it! i dont have concrete science on the performance, but its really good and i wouldnt have slave over the guide if i felt nobody could enjoy it! i get good performance, and im on a pentium 4 3ghz box! thats aging, so anything better and it will probably be better.
w00t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2008, 02:08 PM   #28
StepOne
Human being with feelings
 
StepOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 950
Default

Ubuntu doesn't have any OOTB support for RAID, so I can't really use it
StepOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 05:51 AM   #29
jimmer
Human being with feelings
 
jimmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 74
Default

thanks w00t,

i'm using Ubuntu 7.10 with the rt kernel installed like you outlined above
and the built in sound-card on a mac mini,
hmm, it just occurred to me, that SC is probably not ASIO equipped...
could that be a problem?

if this doesnt have a prayer of working, i have an M-Audio moble-pre that i could move from my PC to make this work...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
REAPER - Its in There
jimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 08:06 AM   #30
w00t
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 133
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmer View Post
thanks w00t,

i'm using Ubuntu 7.10 with the rt kernel installed like you outlined above
and the built in sound-card on a mac mini,
hmm, it just occurred to me, that SC is probably not ASIO equipped...
could that be a problem?

if this doesnt have a prayer of working, i have an M-Audio moble-pre that i could move from my PC to make this work...


well it may be that its not gonna get good realtime with that card, I have a macbook and im not sure if its the same card but those factory grade cards definitely dont work like cards designed for asio. Funny I actually have a m audio mobilePre that i use for macbook lol lemme know if you try it how it goes



also for the built-in card, go into your jack control settings. go to the right hand side and change the "duplex" setting to playback only or record only. if it works then, it's probably the card is not good enough. you may also want to try "force to 16 bit" setting on the left.
w00t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 08:10 AM   #31
w00t
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 133
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StepOne View Post
Ubuntu doesn't have any OOTB support for RAID, so I can't really use it


have you tried jacklab? its not ubuntu its SUSE based, which imo is still really user friendly and in our case is actually easier because yo dont have to do much except register wineasio driver with wine, they build this howto in. i'd google and see if you can dig some stuff up, or alternatively you can go to their irc channel and see if they build RAID support in.


irc.freenode.net

#jacklab


hope you can find something that supports RAID properly for you...if its some other derivative and you have problems post here or start a new thread ppl will try to help
w00t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 10:50 AM   #32
jimmer
Human being with feelings
 
jimmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 74
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by w00t View Post
well it may be that its not gonna get good realtime with that card, I have a macbook and im not sure if its the same card but those factory grade cards definitely dont work like cards designed for asio. Funny I actually have a m audio mobilePre that i use for macbook lol lemme know if you try it how it goes



also for the built-in card, go into your jack control settings. go to the right hand side and change the "duplex" setting to playback only or record only. if it works then, it's probably the card is not good enough. you may also want to try "force to 16 bit" setting on the left.
thanks, i tried changing the settings however it still doesnt work, it quits in the same way. I suppose i will try the mobilePre... what do i need to do for that? can i just plug it in? do i need to change settings to tell it to use the MP?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
REAPER - Its in There
jimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2008, 11:15 AM   #33
StepOne
Human being with feelings
 
StepOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 950
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by w00t View Post
have you tried jacklab? its not ubuntu its SUSE based, which imo is still really user friendly and in our case is actually easier because yo dont have to do much except register wineasio driver with wine, they build this howto in. i'd google and see if you can dig some stuff up, or alternatively you can go to their irc channel and see if they build RAID support in.


irc.freenode.net

#jacklab


hope you can find something that supports RAID properly for you...if its some other derivative and you have problems post here or start a new thread ppl will try to help
thanks, I'll check out jacklab.
StepOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 06:17 AM   #34
jimmer
Human being with feelings
 
jimmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 74
Default

Hmmm... I finally got jack working fine but the playback from reaper is garbled... like if you had the buffer too low, but i change the buffer in jack and the playback stays garbled. what can i do to fix this?

when i render though it sounds perfect
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
REAPER - Its in There

Last edited by jimmer; 02-12-2008 at 06:20 AM. Reason: extra info
jimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 07:19 AM   #35
404NotFound
Human being with feelings
 
404NotFound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Berlin, GER
Posts: 199
Default

Try changing the Periods/Buffer value in Jack. It really depends on your soundcard - my Multiface requires 2 buffers, my on board soundcard doesn't play properly if it's not set to 3.
404NotFound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 07:24 AM   #36
jimmer
Human being with feelings
 
jimmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 74
Default

404: i love you (in a very figurative way)

IT WORKS!!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
REAPER - Its in There
jimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2008, 08:38 AM   #37
norbury brook
Human being with feelings
 
norbury brook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London UK
Posts: 1,979
Default

Hi Guys,

LIke you I've also taken a keen interest in Linux these past few weeks.I have found though that the performance hit running under wine kind of makes it a bit of a dissapointment.W00ts remarks abiut the GUI are spot on in my experience and are a real PIA. I think ideally a Linux native app will be the way to go.

For me part of the reason for using Linux is to get better performance from a customised OS and using wine makes performance worse so what's the point.


MC
norbury brook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2008, 06:54 AM   #38
roman
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 48
Default

Some additions:

[edit]Misinformation ahead, see post below![/edit]

I think you missed that you need to select the "Jack Driver" in the winecfg audio tab if you want to run it through Jack. Running it through ASIO works fine too though. OSS is probably not the best option.

To start it in a terminal you can create a new launcher on the desktop and select "Application in terminal, then copy and paste the command from the launcher tab of the reaper icon properties.
Alternatively you could create an sh file
Code:
"echo [command] > reaper.sh"
Code:
chmod +x reaper.sh
It might be worth mentioning that Jack won't start if there is another program currently using the audio server. A simple youtube video in firefox - even when it's stopped uses the audio server.
Also, if Jack is running, it won't let other programs that are not Jack compatible use the audio server. (won't produce output)
The jack server might also refuse to start after you've activated realtime.
Logging out and in again after changing the settings should resolve that.

Last edited by roman; 02-18-2008 at 12:54 PM.
roman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2008, 10:36 AM   #39
w00t
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 133
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by roman View Post
Some additions:
I think you missed that you need to select the "Jack Driver" in the winecfg audio tab if you want to run it through Jack. Running it through ASIO works fine too though. OSS is probably not the best option.

To start it in a terminal you can create a new launcher on the desktop and select "Application in terminal, then copy and paste the command from the launcher tab of the reaper icon properties.
Alternatively you could create an sh file
Code:
"echo [command] > reaper.sh"
Code:
chmod +x reaper.sh
It might be worth mentioning that Jack won't start if there is another program currently using the audio server. A simple youtube video in firefox - even when it's stopped uses the audio server.
Also, if Jack is running, it won't let other programs that are not Jack compatible use the audio server. (won't produce output)
The jack server might also refuse to start after you've activated realtime.
Logging out and in again after changing the settings should resolve that.


Hi Roman I'm not sure i get you. "wineasio" is not compatible with jack midi, it uses alsa midi, so thats why in my tutorial you choose "alsa only" If you DO NOT do this you CAN NOT use alsa midi with wineasio and reaper. no need to choose Jack in winecfg because we symlink jack to the wineasio driver. what benefits does choosing jack in wineasio give YOU exactly?


as for the other tips thanks
w00t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2008, 12:53 PM   #40
roman
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 48
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by w00t View Post
no need to choose Jack in winecfg because we symlink jack to the wineasio driver. what benefits does choosing jack in wineasio give YOU exactly?
I missed that one.
I did not symlink jack to wineasio, so the benefit for me to choose jack in winecfg is so that it works in the first place .
roman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.