Old 12-23-2016, 03:15 PM   #1
JoeCreates
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Default Horrible Velocity event editing (FIXED)

A recent update seems to have been pretty harmful to velocity editing. The new behaviour is very unintuitive to me and makes drawing in velocities quite painful. While I would like to see the current behaviour improved, I would also greatly appreciate any suggestions of how I could revert to the old behaviour if there is a way.

In 5.15, you edited the velocity only when your mouse cursor was over the velocity bar, meaning you could easily draw curves as illustrated:

http://i.giphy.com/26FKU66RGbSiYXzEs.gif (Old behaviour)

In 5.30 (I'm not sure when exactly this change came in) it is not only the bar the edits the velocity, but also some amount of space to the right of it. This makes it rather unclear what is going to be edited if anything if you click in some blank space in the CC editor. Furthermore, quickly drawing curves is now basically impossible, because you end up changing events when your cursor is nowhere near the bar.

http://i.giphy.com/l4Jz25WwvSC0MtMzK.gif (New behaviour)

In future, perhaps it would make sense to have the bars extend to the width of their corresponding notes (translucent such as with pitch bend etc.) and this is the area in which you can edit the note? For now, is there any way to revert to the old behaviour?

Thanks.
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Old 12-24-2016, 02:51 PM   #2
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I agree.

I wrote the following post a while ago in the pre-release subforum:

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
I would raise a few concerns regarding large active areas:

* It is inconsistent with how CCs are drawn in REAPER. For example, if a user tries to draw a similar curve in Expression CC vs Velocity:



* When freehand drawing the velocities of a series of notes, a user would typically start slightly to the left of the first note, in the "CC lane" context. If the active area is large, it may lead to inadvertent editing of notes to the left of the mouse - even offscreen notes:



EDIT: In summary, I find that I can draw more precise, controlled curves of the active area is small.
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Old 12-25-2016, 02:03 AM   #3
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I like the new behavior actually. Makes things much easier to edit in one mouse sweep.
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Old 12-25-2016, 06:31 AM   #4
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Currently the velocity editing looks back to the previous snap point or 16 velocity bar widths, whichever is greater. We could change this to be whichever is smaller, or limit it to 2 bar widths, or similar.
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Old 12-25-2016, 07:40 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Currently the velocity editing looks back to the previous snap point or 16 velocity bar widths, whichever is greater. We could change this to be whichever is smaller, or limit it to 2 bar widths, or similar.
Up to a width of a single grid set in grid options and not related to grid visibility would be enough tbh. Same for automation in main view, have it snapping to set grid not related to visibility.
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Old 12-25-2016, 09:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I like the new behavior actually. Makes things much easier to edit in one mouse sweep.
Do you mean if editing one single event at a time? It used to be possible to edit many notes in a single left to right sweep, but now (unless you have tightly packed and equispaced notes) it is not. The result will be nothing like the curve you tried to draw, where as it used to look fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Currently the velocity editing looks back to the previous snap point or 16 velocity bar widths, whichever is greater. We could change this to be whichever is smaller, or limit it to 2 bar widths, or similar.
Well the real issue is the fact that the active area of the bar is greater on the right hand side than the left, leading to asymmetric activation. I.e. if you click just to the left of a bar it doesn't activate, but to the right it does.

If you try to draw a curve from left to right, the result will be very different to if you draw the same identical curve from right to left. Prior to the update, it wouldn't matter how you drew a curve, the resulting velocities would all actually sit on the curve you drew. Tweaking the precise extra width on the right wouldn't solve the issue of drawing curves across multiple events at the same time, because you'll still be activating an event for some time after passing it and never from the left until you are actually over it.

This has been a bit of a performance hit to me as I do so much input with a mouse, and drawing curves rather than tweaking single velocities had been important to my workflow. I might, for example, have a complete piano part with uniform velocities for which I need to change every velocity manually. The ability to draw curves for such a task is pretty essential.

Would it perhaps be possible to get the exact old behaviour back as a setting?
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Old 12-25-2016, 11:09 AM   #7
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@Schwa Please have a look at this. this is Cubase cc editing. It's not complex, and it's not very advanced, but it is way way better then what we have.








Also please notice the verticl helper bar that lets you instantly know where in the horizntal space are you pointing.
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Last edited by MikComposer; 12-25-2016 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 12-25-2016, 02:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Currently the velocity editing looks back to the previous snap point or 16 velocity bar widths, whichever is greater. We could change this to be whichever is smaller, or limit it to 2 bar widths, or similar.
I like the idea of "whichever is smaller", since it would give the user much more liberty to determine the size of the active area: If snapping is enabled, the mouse would affect the CC or velocity in the same grid division. If snapping is disabled, the mouse would only affect the CC or velocity that is directly underneath the mouse.

If I am not mistaken, this is somewhat similar to how CC editing currently works, except that CCs' "active area" cannot go smaller than 1/8, and can go larger than 16 bar widths.
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Old 12-25-2016, 02:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
I like the idea of "whichever is smaller", since it would give the user much more liberty to determine the size of the active area: If snapping is enabled, the mouse would affect the CC or velocity in the same grid division. If snapping is disabled, the mouse would only affect the CC or velocity that is directly underneath the mouse.

If I am not mistaken, this is somewhat similar to how CC editing currently works, except that CCs' "active area" cannot go smaller than 1/8, and can go larger than 16 bar widths.
Honestly, it should just pick nearest to the pointer within range, from left or right regardless. And it doesn't have to calculate blocks vector, just pick from x axis position of the center point of cc block.
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Old 12-26-2016, 06:33 AM   #10
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I am thinking the best thing is an option to either edit only when the mouse is over the velocity bar, or to look back to the nearest snap point.

Last edited by schwa; 12-26-2016 at 06:55 AM.
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Old 12-26-2016, 07:02 AM   #11
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Speaking only for myself, I would be happy with such an option (and hopefully it would also apply to CCs).
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Old 12-26-2016, 08:57 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I am thinking the best thing is an option to either edit only when the mouse is over the velocity bar, or to look back to the nearest snap point.
That would be fine by me. Also, do you think you could make those bars slicker? like 1/3 of current width? Makes it easier to differentiate them.
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