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Old 06-25-2008, 05:49 PM   #1
Art Evans
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Default SWS/Xenakios' snapshot extension [Xenakios' mixer snapshot extension]

http://stash.reaper.fm/v/1417/reaper...xsnapshots.dll is the download location.

I think this is pretty sensational!

View > Extensions: Show mixer snapshots.

Ctrl/click on one of the numbered buttons there to store the snapshot, plain click to recall.

Xenakios said
Quote:
You save the snapshot of the current mixer channels by Ctrl+clicking the number buttons. There are no bells and whistles, plugin parameters don't work (on purpose) and no writing of automation envelopes by recalling the snapshots...Sends are currently a bit broken too...But I thought I'd upload it anyway without a separate announcement since people have been interested in the concept...
I'll move my own comments from another thread in here.

Last edited by Art Evans; 07-06-2008 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 06-25-2008, 05:50 PM   #2
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Before I go and change my underwear, let me explain how I can see this being used.

At the radio station we have a small performance studio where classical or jazz musicians perform live to air. We use Reaper to record them at the same time.

The desk is a Tascam DM3200 (going from memory) and that has 32 (!) channels of firewire out. It has snapshot automation of all parameters. Quite often, the radio broadcast incorporates various groups in quick succession, eg first item = string quartet, second item = cello and piano, third item = piano solo. In between the presenter speaks.

So during rehearsals we get the balance for each act, store it as a snapshot, and also we have the presenter's setting stored.

During the broadcast, I just sit there and recall (using buttons on the mixer) each snapshot in turn, eg

Presenter snapshot
First act snapshot
Presenter snapshot
Second act snapshot
Presenter snapshot
etc etc

What goes to air is the output from the mixer direct. Meanwhile, Reaper is recording the output from all the channels in use and later we remix that for the station library and for the performers' post mortem use.

Now having snapshots available in Reaper means that we could dispense with the mixer. Just have Reaper fed from a multichannel interface, and the output from Reaper goes to air. The balance of each act is set up with snapshots within Reaper, and I suspect different reverb settings could be achieved with imaginative use of send snapshots (haven't tried that yet).

Wow! Much to think about here.

OK - feature requests...

- Ability to name snapshots. Maybe shift/click on the number to open a name edit window. To show the name of the current snapshot would be easy within the window as it stands, but you'd want to see the names of the other snapshots too before you click on the wrong one. Tooltip when hovering above the button? List at the bottom of the window (hmm, that would require a big window).

- Transition time between current snapshot and next one, settable. So when you recall a snapshot, instead of snapping from one to the next, the faders would glide over the prescribed period. (In my usage, you'd not want the studio to snap out and the presenter to snap in suddently).

- For other people, recall a snapshot when a specially named marker was encountered. Eg, when the transport passes a marker named "Snap 5", snapshot 5 is activated.

- Back to me - the ability to set up a sequence of snapshots and recall them sequentially by clicking on buttons marked "next" and "previous", eg 1,2,1,3,1,4 (presenter, act 1, presenter, act 2, etc).

Does that make sense? Is it at all possible?
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Old 06-25-2008, 05:58 PM   #3
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I guess most ideas by Art are possible to do, maybe not so well, though.

There's one glaring omission in the current code that should be added before anything else, that is saving the snapshots to the Reaper project file...But I kinda entertained the idea of having that available for people if they give me a little donation hahah...I dunno, I have to think about that.
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Old 06-25-2008, 05:59 PM   #4
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Yes, this is just so damned handy, thanks Xenakios ...
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Old 06-25-2008, 06:02 PM   #5
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Default Banks of Snapshots?

Xenakios, is there a limitation on snapshots due to the coding involved? Any chance we could get 16 banks of snapshots? (There seems a lot of real estate on the plugin. )

Although 16 seems a lot, I can envision instances where you would exceed it, with banks I could have pans on one bank, mutes on another, maybe different region areas per bank.

In fact it could be used as an alternative to automation, with a pre-defined fade between snapshots you could do a real-time mix render (bounce to disc)...could be quite creative!
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Old 06-25-2008, 06:20 PM   #6
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Is there a reason why the master is not included in the snapshot? Personally I would like that in with the rest.

Have you already set up a donation mechanism?
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Old 06-25-2008, 06:29 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans View Post
Is there a reason why the master is not included in the snapshot? Personally I would like that in with the rest.

Have you already set up a donation mechanism?
No particular reason for omitting the master, should be easy to add support for that.

I have a Paypal account, nothing more fancy. My attempts at creating any kinds of webpages have always ended in vain. Otoh, I might want to do that, as it maybe isn't so appropriate to ask for donations for downloadables that are hosted on the Cockos server...(I guess I'll ask Justin's opinion on the matter...) But finding a decent and inexpensive webhost isn't so incredibly easy. Oh well...
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Old 06-25-2008, 07:14 PM   #8
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Ok... well, I think what you are doing deserves donations anyway.

Meanwhile, I can imagine that record-enabled state would be another item handy to have in the mixer snapshot. For instance, in my usage, when the presenter is talking there's no point in having the musicians' tracks recording - I could save a bit of disk space that way.

And maybe track selection as another tickable option? So having recalled the state of the faders, you'd also be able to recall which ones were selected and make an instant fine adjustment to the group.

Just firing off thoughts as they hit me, ignore what seems not worth thinking about!
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Old 06-25-2008, 07:37 PM   #9
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And yes, the ability to save the snapshots with the project file is pretty essential... that'd be worth a $20 donation from me, anyway! And hopefully others would chip in for that and/or your other excellent work. You could PM me your PayPal details.
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Old 06-25-2008, 08:41 PM   #10
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I've got a working exe for controlling all the functions in Mixer Snapshots by keyboard shortcuts, using the Function keys.

http://shup.com/Shup/47540/MixerSnapshots.exe

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/47549/MixerSnapshots.rar

Quote:
Mixer Snapshots.exe:

Double-click the exe to start it, or set a windows shortcut

Capslock & E - exits MixerSnapshots.exe (or right-click the M icon in the tray)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Parameters:


Capslock & S - opens/closes Mixer Snapshots Window

Capslock & V - checks the Volume Parameter

Capslock & M - checks the Mute Parameter

Capslock & P - checks the Pan Parameter

Capslock & L - checks the Send Levels Parameter

Capslock & R - checks the recall Only Selected Tracks Parameter

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Recalling a Snapshot:

Snapshots 1-12 - F1-F12
Snapshots 11-16 - Shift F1-F6


Storing a Snapshot:

Snapshots 1-12 - Ctrl F1-F12
Snapshots 11-16 - Shift Ctrl F1-F6

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Keypad (/) - Sets Focus back to REAPER

NB:Normal Capslock is disabled while this is running ...Use Ctrl-Capslock to turn capitals on and off.


Ok...I hope it works for you! Tested and Working on 2 different setups here...

Last edited by Bevosss; 06-25-2008 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 06-25-2008, 08:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss View Post
I've got a working exe for controlling all the functions in Mixer Snapshots by keyboard shortcuts, using the Function keys. I'll post it up in a bit with instructions.
Oh well, I am planning on including keybindable actions for the snapshots at some point...

It maybe I can't give this snapshot thing very much attention in the near future, though. (Gotta work on some music...) The DLL was provided as a kind of preview beta "as-it-is" for now, since the topic of mixer snapshots tends to come up at the forums regularly and I had already made some screenshot videos a couple of months ago, apparently "teasing" people with the whole thing...
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Old 06-25-2008, 09:20 PM   #12
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That's cool, it's damn useful as it is!

I'd be happy to donate for an upgrade too btw X...
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Old 06-25-2008, 09:57 PM   #13
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Btw why no Solo Parameters? Was that a tough one to code?

Alt-clicking the mute button and storing the mute snapshot gets around that a bit, just not for folder tracks or multiple tracks.
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss View Post
Btw why no Solo Parameters? Was that a tough one to code?

Alt-clicking the mute button and storing the mute snapshot gets around that a bit, just not for folder tracks or multiple tracks.
It should not be too hard to do the solos too, they can be accessed with the same APIs as vol/mute/pan. But it will get inconsistent if/when I add the support for writing automation for the other parameters, as the solos can't be automated. (Well, I could convert the solos to mutes or something, but hmm...) Anyway, automation write support won't be coming until Reaper has support for writing the send automations (would need some new Csurf-stuff to do that), unless anyone really thinks it would make sense to have the vol/pan/mute automations writing working now...?
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Old 06-26-2008, 12:42 AM   #15
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Xen the amount of time you put into making this crud... I think donations are fair.

Just like I think it would be fair if a portion of the LULU manual costs went to account for Nicholas' time penning the manual.

.t
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Old 06-26-2008, 12:49 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
Xen the amount of time you put into making this crud... I think donations are fair.

Just like I think it would be fair if a portion of the LULU manual costs went to account for Nicholas' time penning the manual.

.t
Yes on both the above. I thought the lulu profits went to Nicholas..? That's why I bought the manual and reamix.

Reamix is awsome btw. I have learned quite a few things, the latest being to split my vocal in 4 freq bands, panning and fxing each differently and getting a nice big vocal sound out of it. All on one track, which I doubt I could do on many other daws. Until now I only used the clever routing system for sidechaining, but this is really cool and nice sounding...
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Old 06-26-2008, 12:58 AM   #17
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Quote:
and no writing of automation envelopes by recalling the snapshots...
Works for mute already - which gives rise to some interesting possibilities.

When it comes to writing fader automation, well, the faders that this extension concern itself with are the trim faders (the normal ones) that are not automated within Reaper at all. What are automated in Reaper are the separate pre- and post-fx faders that you only see when automation is enabled. But normally, when those faders are in use you can't get at the "normal" trim faders. However, this extension allows you to change their level even when hidden, if you recall a snapshot that has that effect. Interesting.
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Old 06-26-2008, 04:20 PM   #18
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This is EXACTLY what I wanted. Thank you thank you thank you!!!

Ken
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Old 06-26-2008, 11:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios View Post
I have a Paypal account, nothing more fancy. My attempts at creating any kinds of webpages have always ended in vain.
I will donate a website (design and build it for you) as a donation. Your work is fab

If you like to take me up on my offer just drop me a PM
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Old 06-26-2008, 11:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by technogremlin View Post
I will donate a website (design and build it for you) as a donation. Your work is fab

If you like to take me up on my offer just drop me a PM
I think SWS is going to offer something better on the mixer snapshots front someday in the near future, so I guess no need right now for donations in any form for me for the mixer snapshots thing...
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Old 06-26-2008, 11:44 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenakios View Post
I think SWS is going to offer something better on the mixer snapshots front someday in the near future, so I guess no need right now for donations in any form for me for the mixer snapshots thing...
Actually, I was not talking about the mixer snapshot thingy specific, if I can help you out with setting up a website I'll be glad to do it
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Old 06-27-2008, 02:37 AM   #22
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Quote:
I think SWS is going to offer something better on the mixer snapshots front someday in the near future
Cool. Well, your work has been a great way to help work out precisely what can be done, and what people actually want (which is perhaps the biggest problem when writing code - the writing is the easy bit, but finding out what the end user actually wants can be pretty tough!).
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Old 06-27-2008, 06:25 AM   #23
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Yeah, turns out Xenakios and I were working on it in parallel, same idea though. My window looks like this:


It already addresses some of the FRs above, e.g., naming, unlimited number of spots, persistance with the project. I don't have the nice options to recall only certain params as Xen does (yet). Would you like them as check boxes on the main window, or in a right click menu?
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Old 06-27-2008, 03:32 PM   #24
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Quote:
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I don't have the nice options to recall only certain params as Xen does (yet). Would you like them as check boxes on the main window, or in a right click menu?
Hey sws, sounds great! Thanks for this.

I think the check boxes are faster, and actions to toggle them even more so. If there's a problem adding toggles, it's faster to use ahk shortcuts for boxes rather than right-click menus.

Looking forward to testing it...
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Old 06-27-2008, 04:31 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Evans View Post
http://stash.reaper.fm/v/1417/reaper...xsnapshots.dll is the download location.

I think this is pretty sensational!

View > Extensions: Show mixer snapshots.

Ctrl/click on one of the numbered buttons there to store the snapshot, plain click to recall.

Xenakios said

I'll move my own comments from another thread in here.
This is a feature I was looking for myself. mixer snapshots are super important, but not really for me right now.

Awesome!
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Old 06-27-2008, 04:57 PM   #26
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For anyone wanting big mixer features on a budget for live work, one can imagine using something like a 16 channel Phonic firewire board (or just a normal FW interface with no mixer section), with a modest laptop and Reaper with snapshot extension providing automation and effects, and not necessarily actually recording.

Do other DAWs have this feature, by the way?
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Old 06-27-2008, 11:06 PM   #27
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Quote:
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Do other DAWs have this feature, by the way?
Samplitude has mixer snapshots.
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Old 07-05-2008, 12:07 AM   #28
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Okay, beta is ready to test if there's any brave souls.

Drop reaper_snapshot.dll into REAPER\Plugins.

View->Show snapshots gets you started.

Many keycommands available for storing and loading.


Mucho credit to Xenakios for the original plug!

This is slightly different than Xen's: Instead of dedicated buttons, you have a list which just shows you the snapshots that are currently saved. You can save into the next available "slot" with the New button (or action) or save into a specific slot with Ctrl-click (or action). Right click to set name (or double click).

Features:
- Unlimited slots
- Naming of snapshots
- Project file storage
- Window resizing

Notes:
- GUI updating isn't quite right.
- Only updates parameters of sends and FX that are still in the project. If you delete sends/FX, they're not added back when you recall.

Coming:
- Fades of numeric params
- Next/prev (for Art )
- ???
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Old 07-05-2008, 12:55 AM   #29
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Quote:
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Okay, beta is ready to test if there's any brave souls.
Cheers!
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Old 07-05-2008, 01:23 AM   #30
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SWS,
Testing so far is good. Everything works. (running Reaper in Wine in Linux in Moscow.)

I only ask if we can reassign delete, save, etc keystrokes, in a later version.
I'm trying to take the mouse out of it altogether, and not use 'click', or 'rightclick' for anything.

Thanks for this, highly useful!

A suggestion. In the action set, you have snapshots 1 to 12.
Can i suggest you think about timestamped snapshots, where a snapshot keeps it's sequential spot by time, when created, as a default progression from the previous snapshot.
For example:
mix 1 (14.00)
mix 2 (14.02)
mix 3 (14.05)

and so on.

That way we could have unlimited snapshots, and they would appear in order.

My appreciation goes to you and Xenakios for these excellent new innnovations.

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Old 07-05-2008, 01:30 AM   #31
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A strange bug...when I click on snapshot #4 in the rpp I have linked too, I get no audio. Closing and reopening the project without saving it, same result.

If I save it and then reopen it, or toggle a mute button to change it, it does play from then on.

I couldn't work out any reason for this, so I'm posting it in case you can figure it out.

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/49313/B...ous_LOSER2.RPP

Edit: whoops, you probably need the snapshot .ini for that, which is permanently changed now ( I didn't realize if you delete a snapshot, you couldn't undo that).

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Old 07-05-2008, 01:35 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Stone View Post

I only ask if we can reassign delete, save, etc keystrokes, in a later version.
You can save and recall snapshots 1-12...but not delete with a keystroke (yet).
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Old 07-05-2008, 01:35 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss View Post
A strange bug...when I click on snapshot #4 in the rpp I have linked too, I get no audio. Closing and reopening the project without saving it, same result.

If I save it and then reopen it, or toggle a mute button to change it, it does play from then on.

I couldn't work out any reason for this, so I'm posting it in case you can figure it out.

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/49313/B...ous_LOSER2.RPP
nice call, Bevoss. I got down to mix 3 and assumed the rest were ok. Same result here with mix 4.

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Old 07-05-2008, 01:37 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss View Post
You can save and recall snapshots 1-12...but not delete with a keystroke (yet).
Yep, got that, Bevoss.
But if we could save snapshots by timestamp, why, we could have hundreds!




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Old 07-05-2008, 01:40 AM   #35
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To clarify what I said earlier...the snapshots are saved with the project (when you save), but don't undo in the active project.

Clear as mud?
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Old 07-05-2008, 01:42 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bevosss View Post
To clarify what I said earlier...the snapshots are saved with the project (when you save), but don't undo in the active project.

Clear as mud?
Clear as mud. I think Xenakios said earlier there was going to be a challenge with undo, but maybe he could clarify this.

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Old 07-05-2008, 01:42 AM   #37
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Quote:
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Yep, got that, Bevoss.
But if we could save snapshots by timestamp, why, we could have hundreds!
By keystroke?
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Old 07-05-2008, 01:48 AM   #38
Alex Stone
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By keystroke?
Sure. Alt+up/down,for just one example. Find the one you want, hit enter, away you go.

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Old 07-05-2008, 01:51 AM   #39
Bevosss
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A suggestion. In the action set, you have snapshots 1 to 12.
Can i suggest you think about timestamped snapshots, where a snapshot keeps it's sequential spot by time, when created, as a default progression from the previous snapshot.
For example:
mix 1 (14.00)
mix 2 (14.02)
mix 3 (14.05)

and so on.

That way we could have unlimited snapshots, and they would appear in order.
I must be a little thick today...doesn't hitting 'new' (or it's keystroke) keep adding snapshots in order of time added? Or do you just need to know the snapshot time?
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Old 07-05-2008, 01:52 AM   #40
Alex Stone
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I must be a little thick today...doesn't hitting 'new' (or it's keystroke) keep adding snapshots in order of time added? Or do you just need to know the snapshot time?
Adding a visible timestamp would be useful for me, B.

Alex.
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