First Beta of a Mackie Control Universal csurf plugin modification

[Klinke]

Hi,

i have started to work on my own MCU plugin and think that it has reached a state at which it is maybe also useful for other Reaper users. There is a long way to go till it has all the features i have in mind (which include support of send levels and plugin parameters), but i can't spend much of my spare leisure time for this task. This first version doesn't add a better VPOT/Display support, it mainly adds/changes the transport section and has a lot of new features for selected time-sections/loops.

Please be aware that my MCU support is not just an improvment of the original ones, e.g. it also changes some behauviours like the Select Track mechanism and always uses the function keys for selecting markers (or loops/regions). Only the buttons in the Global View section can be assigned to actions, but you can assign different actions to it, when you press the "Global View"/"Marker" or "Nudge" button while you press a global view button.

I have uploaded the extension to the Reaper stash. The extension is also working with the Mackie extender.

Here is the complete list of functions:

- F1-F8: Select Marker 1-8
- Control F1-F8: Store Marker 1-8
- Shift F1-F8: Create Loop from currect EditCursor position to Marker 1-8
- Shift Option F1-F8: Set Time Selection from current EditCursor position to Marker 1-8
- Shift Alt F1-F8: same as Shift F1-F8
- Option F1-F8: Select Region 1-8
- Alt F1-F8: Set Loop to Region 1-8 (Alt and Option can be combined)
- Control Option F1-F8: Store Time Selection as Region 1-8
- Control Alt F1-F8: Store Loop as Region 1-8
(so Control store stuff, Option has something to do with the Time Selection, Alt with the Loop Selection and Shift set the Loop or the Time Selection from the EditCursor to the Marker)

- Shift Zoom: Zoom out Project

- Shift Rec: Monitor on/off
- Option Rec: Rec Mode Input/None
- The Solo buttons are showing the Monitor status if Shift is pressed (Led is on when Monitor is on) are the Rec Mode if Option is pressed (Led is on when Rec Mode is set to Input and off for all other modes)

- Select: Now similar to mouse behavior:
-- without Modifier, select only one Track
-- with Control, add Track to selected Track
-- (Shift-Modifier isn't implemented yet)
- Option Select: Toggle Hide in Mixer

- Rewind & Fast Fwd (FFwd) Button can be set in Mode "Normal", "Marker", "Nudge" (Nudge Mode isn't implemented yet). If Rewind or FFwd is pressed while a mode button is pressed, after releasing the mode button the MCU will automatical switch back to the mode before.
-- In Normal Mode:
--- Rewind/Forward Edit Cursor 1 Bar (Time Signature changes are ignored)
--- with Shift: Rewind/Forward Edit Cursor 1 Beat
(The Rewind/FFwd button can be hold down for larger changes, the maximal speed depend on Control surface diplay update frequency set in the preferences)
--- Control Rewind/FFwd: Goto Project Start/End
--- Option Rewind/FFwd: Goto Time Selection Start/End
--- Alt Rewind/FFwd: Goto Loop Start/End
--- Shift Option Rewind/FFwd: Set Time Selection Start/End to Edit Cursor
--- Shift Alt Rewind/FFwd: Set Loop Start/End to Edit Cursor
-- In Marker Mode:
--- Previous/Next Marker (the same behavior as before in Normal Mode)
--- with Option: Previous/Next Region as Time Selection
--- with Alt: Previous/Next Region as Loop
--- with Shift + Option: Swap Time Selection to left/right
--- with Control + Alt: Swap Loop to left/right

- Double-click Stop: Set the Edit Cursor to the nearest Bar (Time Signature changes are ignored)
- Double-click Shift Stop: Set the Edit Cursor to the nearest Beat
- Double-click Option Stop: Set Time Selection Start/End to the nearest Bar
- Double-click Shift Option Stop: Set Time Selection Start/End to the nearest Beat
- Double-click Alt Stop: Set Loop Start/End to the nearest Bar
- Double-click Shift Alt Stop: Set Loop Start/End to the nearest Beat

- Stop while Recording:
-- without Modifier: Stop and save all recorded media
-- with Alt: Stop and show Dialog (old default behavior)
- Cancel: Stop and delete all recorded media

- Play while Playing: Stop at current play position
- Alt Play: Create a loop around the Edit-Cursor with the length of 1 bar and play this loop
- Shift Alt Play: Create a loop around the Edit-Cursor with the length of 1 beat and play this loop

- Additional Jog Wheel functions:
-- Shift: move Time Region start
-- Option: move Time Region end
-- Control: move Loop start
-- Alt: move Loop end
The movement depend on the Zoom level and the status of the Scrub button. If Scrub is off, it will jump one Bar or Beat, of Scrub is on, it will move two pixel.

- Cycle: Toggle Repeat
- Drop: Toggles Record Mode
-- LED off: "Record mode: normal"
-- LED on: "Record mode: time selection auto punch"
-- LED blink: "Record mode: auto-punch selected items"
(please be aware that this modifikation resets the record mode to normal at the initialization of the MCU and that changed of the record mode, that are done with the mouse or keyboard, are not reflected by the MCU and will be overwritten when the record button on the MCU is pressed)
- Click: Toggle Metronom
- Solo: Unsolo all Tracks
- Flip: Flip fader and encoder function
- Global View: Show the mixer channels as shown in the Reaper mixer


Best,
Klinke

[airon]

Nice work. I'm an MCU user, as is Justin btw.

I'll be watching this very closely and will test any downloadable release.

Rest assured that we all support this effort.

[Banned]

Very interesting... not a MCU user yet, but willing to do almost anything to make remote controllers work better with reaper and vice versa. So i'll be keeping an eye on this thread too.

[Mercado_Negro]

I own a M-Audio Projectmix and it's based on same protocool... you should release it globally and those who doesn't want troubles just don't download it. Upload it please, I'll test it for sure... you know recently some skillful people here has been talking about implementing some "plug-in manipulation" improvement to MCU, what about if you get into that boat too?

[semiquaver]

if there's any way - down the road or whatever - to port to mac that would be fab

[Klinke]

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

you should release it globally and those who doesn't want troubles just don't download it. Upload it please, I'll test it for sure...

Okay, i have just uploaded it to the stash.

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

you know recently some skillful people here has been talking about implementing some "plug-in manipulation" improvement to MCU, what about if you get into that boat too?

I have seen the thread and wrote a comment today.

[Klinke]

Originally Posted by semiquaver

if there's any way - down the road or whatever - to port to mac that would be fab

When the project is in a more grown state, i will check it. I have access to a MacBook and OS X programming experience, so a mac port should be possible. But don't expect that this will happen in this year.

[JosMuysers]

I copied the reaper_csurf.dll in the Reaper plugin-folder, replacing the old one. When I try to add the mcu in reaper (with the add button in preferences > Control Surfaces) I should get a list of available control surfaces, but this list is empty.
Am I doing something wrong?

[sws]

Originally Posted by JosMuysers

I copied the reaper_csurf.dll in the Reaper plugin-folder, replacing the old one. When I try to add the mcu in reaper (with the add button in preferences > Control Surfaces) I should get a list of available control surfaces, but this list is empty.
Am I doing something wrong?

Klinke, are you compiling with /MD instead of /MT? Check your build properties under C++/Code generation/Runtime Library; make sure it's set to "Multi-threaded (/MT)". Deric had this problem before and that was the fix.

[Klinke]

Yes, the project setting was /MD, i changed it to /MT and uploaded the plugin to the stash again (this time in a version that also has the extender mode enabled). I hope that will fix the problem. Thanks SWS.

Btw.: It's not necessery to replace the old reaper_csurf.dll, just add the "reaper_csurf_klinke.dll" additionally to the plugin folder. I think if you rename my plugin to reaper_csurf.dll, it will be overwritten the next time you run the reaper installer.

[Mercado_Negro]

klinke... thanks a lot for this .dll, i'm using it right now with my m-audio projectmix and it works almost flawlessly... alt and shift ain't working...

[Dr Bob]

Hi

What I want/need is a generic csurf which I can select to send and receive the control data over the network (or fudge it via midiyoke and reastream). It would be nice to have the output able to go directly to the net and in again, because the reastream fudge of course sends at the audio sample rate, which for midi is plain silly, max is 31.5K anyway - and who sends midi at this rate anyway!

By doing this on 2 machines connected over the network you can have remote collaborative mixing. Simply arrange for each end to have the same audio files and project loaded, connect up, use a Skype or similar to "natter", and mix away. Of course, network latency will get in the way of truly smooth working, but by talking to each other (remember this method of communication????), that can be sorted to some extent.

Using a dedicated network connection can remove those problems, and then we only have the speed of light to worry about (and any latencies introduced by the routers etc en-route).

The code would have to be a bit smarter than simply connect A to B, and B to A though, some nasty feedback loops could happen (hmmm, remember feedback? Howl!), but it's midi this time.

Any thoughts? Justin, Christophe (oh reaper networking guru!)

Cheers,

db

[fab]

klinke, could you post a table of the midi messages associate to the MCU buttons? this way we could program things like the bcr2000 to play with your cs plugin!

would be cool - thanks for your work so far!
fab

[d. gauss]

any hope for HUI? i have several cm motormixes i'd love to integrate better than just faders/mutes/solo.

[Klinke]

Originally Posted by fab

klinke, could you post a table of the midi messages associate to the MCU buttons? this way we could program things like the bcr2000 to play with your cs plugin!

You can find a table with the midi messages here:
http://members.aol.com/mhigrules/MCMap.htm

But the button labels in the DAW specific area doesn't match with the labels of the MCU, but you can take a big picture of the MCU from http://cachepe.zzounds.com/media/qua...97c318e609.jpg and combine it with "Position left/right" and "Position up/down" columns of the table.

Best,
Klinke

[fab]

great info, cheers
f

[duojet]

the mackie extenders do not seem to work with the plug in. are they supported? i see an entry

[Klinke]

As i mentioned in the Upload info on the stash, the Extender functionality is untested, so its highly likely, that the Extender doesn't work. But maybe you can combine it with the original Extender plugin.

I will remove the Extender version from my plugin in next upload to avoid confusion.

[JosMuysers]

The extender works with your plugin. Only the LCD screen doesn't show the track names/meters. Let me know if I can help with the extender part

Great work!

[Klinke]

I have just uploaded a new version, the changes are documented in the first post of this thread.

I big thanks to SWS, who helped me with code for storing of Time Selections or Loops as Region. And also to Jos for testing the plugin with the Mackie Extender.

[duojet]

Originally Posted by Klinke

I have just uploaded a new version, the changes are documented in the first post of this thread.

I big thanks to SWS, who helped me with code for storing of Time Selections or Loops as Region. And also to Jos for testing the plugin with the Mackie Extender.

does it now work correctly with the extender? Thanks!

[Klinke]

Originally Posted by duojet

does it now work correctly with the extender? Thanks!

As far as i know the level meters doesn't work, but the display is showing the track names.

[pollux]

Hi,

I've been playing with this MCU plugin, and I'd like to share with you some "simple" ideas that I found could be useful:

1) trigger media "split" from the "enter" button (currently unused)

2) "group + track select" could be a very nice complement to the new grouping features on V2.5

3) "ctrl + enter" triggers "create measure from time selection"

4) "replace" (currently unused) opens Render stem dialog

I'd be glad to hear your comments on it, and give a hand on this if you find these features useful.


Cheers!

[Alsion]

Great work!
I will test it this evening!

[Klinke]

Originally Posted by pollux

1) trigger media "split" from the "enter" button (currently unused)

2) "group + track select" could be a very nice complement to the new grouping features on V2.5

3) "ctrl + enter" triggers "create measure from time selection"

4) "replace" (currently unused) opens Render stem dialog

I'd be glad to hear your comments on it, and give a hand on this if you find these features useful.


Cheers!

I have assigned "Split" to a Global View key and i think this is also a good place for "create measure from time selection" and "open Render stem dialog".

At the moment the API doesn't allow access to the new grouping features, i will take a look at it, when this has changed.

Best,
Klinke

[Klinke]

Originally Posted by Klinke

As far as i know the level meters doesn't work, but the display is showing the track names.

In the meanwhile i got feedback that the level meters are working, so the plugin works with the Extender without any (known) problem.

[flipotto]

Originally Posted by fab

klinke, could you post a table of the midi messages associate to the MCU buttons? this way we could program things like the bcr2000 to play with your cs plugin!

would be cool - thanks for your work so far!
fab

I am working on an bcr2000 mackie preset, I have already done the Live preset and am the creator of Genmce.
If you want the listing of commands check the forum at my website, however, I do not have a listing for reaper.... yet.
http://shoshin.110mb.com/genmce

I also have an ableton live preset for mackie emulation on the bcr2k there as well as links to many other presets and very good editors (not the company java editor).
http://shoshin.110mb.com/genmce/bcr2000/

[cdoerman]

Hi Klinke,

Thanks for the great utility. I am new to Reaper and experimented a bit on it running XP 32-bit with a BCF2000 in MCU emulation mode and it worked great. However, I actually just got a real MCU and have upgraded my PC to 64-bit Vista and am running the 64-bit version of Reaper. When I copy the DLL folder into C:\Program Files\REAPER (x64)\Plugins, it doesn't show up. Is this not compatible with 64-bit? If not, do you know if/when it may be?

Thanks again!
Chris

[Klinke]

Yes, the plugin works only with the 32bit version. I don't plan to build a 64-bit version in the near future, i'm even not sure if this is possible at the moment. But if someone wants to tried it itself, i will send him the source code.

Are you sure you need the 64-bit version of Reaper? As far as i know the main (and nearly only) advantage is that Reaper can allocate more memory, but if you don't work with a lot of big sample libraries 2 GB should be enough.

Best,
Klinke

[sws]

cdoerman: I echo Klinke's sentiment that you probably don't need to run Reaper x64, the 32 bit version is likely just fine.

That said, Klinke, I'll happily volunteer to compile in x64. I've got everything setup for that, just send me the source.

[cdoerman]

Klinke & SWS - thanks for the input. I agree that the 32-bit version is probably fine. Of course, if you end up building a 64-bit release, that would be cool.

I have since switched to the 32-bit Reaper release as I think Klinke's MCU interface is worth it alone. I have also started using the SWS plug-in and love that one as well. If you end up building a 64-bit version of that also, I would be very interested to try them both out in Reaper x64.

Also, any word on when a new release of the MCU plug-in may happen? I know you have a lot of features you were hoping to add and I'm sure they will take some time. I was just curious how close you may be.

Thanks again guys for all the hard work. I certainly appreciate it!

[fab]

Originally Posted by flipotto

I am working on an bcr2000 mackie preset

thanks! that would be uber-excellent !!

[sws]

Originally Posted by cdoerman

I have also started using the SWS plug-in and love that one as well. If you end up building a 64-bit version of that also, I would be very interested to try them both out in Reaper x64.

Thanks, here's a 64 bit version of my plugin. I don't have means to test here, let me know if it works for you.

[cdoerman]

Originally Posted by sws

Thanks, here's a 64 bit version of my plugin. I don't have means to test here, let me know if it works for you.

Will do. If Klinke takes you up on your offer to compile an x64 version of his MCU plugin, I'll test them both at the same time! I hope to have some time this weekend to get my hands dirty...

[Klinke]

Originally Posted by cdoerman

Also, any word on when a new release of the MCU plug-in may happen? I know you have a lot of features you were hoping to add and I'm sure they will take some time. I was just curious how close you may be.

The project is postponed till end of the month, i have a first gig with my band on 28.2 ;-) And still a lot to do for this. But afterwards it's high on my priority list.

Regarding the 64bit version: As long as you can live with the 32bit version i would prefer to wait with the 64bit version till i will do the next development break.

[Klinke]

Originally Posted by sws

That said, Klinke, I'll happily volunteer to compile in x64. I've got everything setup for that, just send me the source.

Thanks alot for your offer, as written in the last post i will come back to it (hopefully) soon.

[cdoerman]

Originally Posted by Klinke

The project is postponed till end of the month, i have a first gig with my band on 28.2 ;-) And still a lot to do for this. But afterwards it's high on my priority list.

Regarding the 64bit version: As long as you can live with the 32bit version i would prefer to wait with the 64bit version till i will do the next development break.

Sounds good. Good luck with your gig!

[AlienInfix]

Sorry to be so dumb but this stuff is complicated (been searching forums, still confused).

Can this be used with nocturn (with midiyoke)?
You control the DAW, not the VST plugins with this, right?
The nocturn needs USB cable, whereas the big thing here is wireless connect?

Thanks, this stuff has steep lurning curve, answers to these would help me get it.

(p.s. I also seen MidiLab apps for iPhone I guess that is similar, being wireless and midi and such)

[pollux]

Originally Posted by AlienInfix

Can this be used with nocturn (with midiyoke)?

You should.. If it doesn't work out of the box, you can try using genmce to map the nocturn to a "virtual" MCU.

Originally Posted by AlienInfix

You control the DAW, not the VST plugins with this, right?

Right. There's no plugin conrol yet. I started working on it, but since the plugins currently don't work on the 3.X alpha version, since I didn't got any answer from the Cockos team about wether it's a bug, but the current plugins will work with 3.X, or if there will be major changes on the plugin API, and the plugin will need to be rewritten, I put the project on hold waiting for more information.. I also wanted to code the Mackie C4 support, but won't start until the plugin stuff is finished.

Hope that will happen before I get too tempted on going back to tracktion...

Originally Posted by AlienInfix

The nocturn needs USB cable, whereas the big thing here is wireless connect?

????

[AlienInfix]

ok, that clears up some stuff for me.

Thanks for working on this extension/add-on (whatever it's called). Some other dude wrote something for the nocturn a while back that helped a lot too.