Old 11-28-2014, 05:26 AM   #1
fantasyvn
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Default Do I need Waves plugins if I have iZotope products?

Could you pls advise?

I have read reviews about how good the Waves plugins are.

Meanwhile I am using iZotope Alloy 2 and Ozone 5 for mixing and mastering. As you know, iZotope is meant to be easy, so I don't know how good they are compared to other more complex plugins.

Will the Waves plugins make your songs sound better than iZotope products?

Thank you
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Old 11-28-2014, 06:32 AM   #2
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Since Izotope dont cover a fraction of the ground covered by the Waves plugs, your question doesnt rally make sense.

If you go look at what Waves offer, you will get an idea of what I am talking about. Izotope's plugs are just a different sort of focus, is all.

But that is why getting demo versions is always a good idea.
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Old 11-28-2014, 06:36 AM   #3
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REAPER stock plugins (both VST & JS) are good enough to mix and master anything. Learn to use them properly, surely it will make your songs sounds better.
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Old 11-29-2014, 12:37 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pakkuncung View Post
REAPER stock plugins (both VST & JS) are good enough to mix and master anything. Learn to use them properly, surely it will make your songs sounds better.
This ^^^
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Old 11-29-2014, 12:53 PM   #5
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Default Waves

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Since Izotope dont cover a fraction of the ground covered by the Waves plugs, your question doesnt rally make sense.

If you go look at what Waves offer, you will get an idea of what I am talking about. Izotope's plugs are just a different sort of focus, is all.

But that is why getting demo versions is always a good idea.
Simple answer, no... Between what comes with Reaper and what you have, you have adaquate tools to do a masterpiece. I am always tempted toward the next new shiny thing too. I rejoined dueling mixes instead and wrote some new stuff.. Best wishes
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Old 11-29-2014, 02:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pakkuncung View Post
REAPER stock plugins (both VST & JS) are good enough to mix and master anything. Learn to use them properly, surely it will make your songs sounds better.
right. exactly that.

what I know about waves plugins is mostly that they are said to give you "color". or they do things like the "vocal rider", that is said to work properly, I have once seen it. I am not sure but I have the feeling that you can that fx with the appropriate Terry West plugin.

anyway, if you dont want clean functioning plugins than maybe Waves is the way to go. I personally am suspicious, because a lot of their plugs have knobs named "saturation" or such. and that is a no-go for me. but thats just me.
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Old 11-29-2014, 02:18 PM   #7
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Plugin effects/eq etc, if folk are being honest when your audio has been recorded correctly they are just taste.
It is far better to get your audio right when you record it than to go chasing after tools to correct your material.
Plugins can add to your sound that is what Demo's are for to find those special plugins to sprinkle a little magic on you well recorded sound.
As has been mentioned use the Reaper ones until you get an idea of what is possible and if you feel the need after gaining some knowledge Demo some outsiders and then purchase them if you like what they do.
I am along the road a bit myself and am only just getting to truly understand it.

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Old 12-30-2014, 10:14 PM   #8
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some fx from waves i would want to keep tho, ns1, vitamin, and cla vocals, easy to use, and great once you get familiar with them.
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Old 12-31-2014, 12:00 AM   #9
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The good thing abot Waves as far as I know is that they have lots of plugins with only little paramters, sliders or knobs - pretty frugal with kinda easy modus and with superb quality.

Some bad things are/were iLok, not CPU friendly and expensive and a lot of (professional) people do use Waves plugins, so maybe your sound will just be the same or similar, so maybe your mixes will have a lack of originality because of this fact ?! ;-)
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Old 12-31-2014, 01:59 AM   #10
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IMO - Ozone and Alloy are great on busses, Waves - single tracks. So having Izotope's stuff on board means you still need some plugins you can use on single tracks, therefore : yes, you need Waves plugins if you have Izotope's products...

BUT - Reaper's plugs do all that stuff, are infinetly more tweakable and add little or no coloration. Plus, they come with the price of the DAW itself.

Having "quality" plugins won't make your songs sound better if you have no idea what you are doing, I know a lot of people that stick by the good plugin=good sound thingy, but it's just a bunch of lies. Plus, most of them didn't even buy the bundles they use, just downloaded the cracked version from whatever site using p2p. Usually, those bastards are musicians ranting about how low their income is because nobody buys music anymore, yet they manage to get the Mercury bundle without paying a dime to people that are actually making a living out of coding software.

Don't be one of those a**holes, buy your plugins...
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Old 12-31-2014, 06:08 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoodee View Post
IMO - Ozone and Alloy are great on busses, Waves - single tracks.
where does that insight come from? its wrong. single or bus or master doesnt matter if you have the CPU to handle iZotope on single tracks. a compressor is a compressor ... so what makes for example the iZotope compressor invalif for a single track? and what about the Waves L-limiters? for single tracks?

you shouldnt oput out such bold statements that are founded on nothing but on some rant at some forums from some guys who are also talking what they have heard. means: dont know nothing about.
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Old 12-31-2014, 01:58 PM   #12
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Here's my hard-won and well payed for advice:

If you have to ask others if you need a plugin, then you don't. Save your money and get the most out of the ones you have.
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Old 01-03-2015, 02:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteaxxxe View Post
where does that insight come from? its wrong. single or bus or master doesnt matter if you have the CPU to handle iZotope on single tracks. a compressor is a compressor ... so what makes for example the iZotope compressor invalif for a single track? and what about the Waves L-limiters? for single tracks?

you shouldnt oput out such bold statements that are founded on nothing but on some rant at some forums from some guys who are also talking what they have heard. means: dont know nothing about.
What makes you think I've read that on the internet? In my case, it's mostly experience, but whatever...

Izotope tends to create more "all-in-one" tools, quite CPU-hungry, might I add, so using them on single tracks is just wasting ressources, while Waves' plugs are simply a compressor, an eq, etc. Some computers can accomodate such need for power, others don't. Mine happens to belong to the latter type, so I've learned to work this around by not overusing Ozone or Alloy, just for that extra polish. There's also the complexity of the product : Waves offer a lot of plugins with fixed values, while Ozone's or Alloy's compressors are powerhouses, highly configurable. My bold statement as you named it is based solely on MY experience and is valid for MY workflow, never have I said that the other way around those plugins would suck.

No offense, but before you judge someone's post on ANY forum, be sure it's based on something more than just rants on the internet... You might end up sounding "douchy"...
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Old 01-03-2015, 07:58 AM   #14
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He's confused by your question.

Usually the question is more specific. Like this:
"I'm inserting a compressor on this vocal track. The stock Reaper one sounds like I put a pillow in front of the speakers when I dial it in. It's working but loses the sparkle to the point that I'm just going to automate the volume myself. Would one of the Waves or iZotope comps do a better job?"

My general opinion on plugins as far as level of sound quality is that first, this only really applies to compressors and eqs. This is where you're either altering/correcting frequency balance of a signal or automating the volume of a signal and you want to avoid damage to it during the process.

Everything else is either adding ambient sound or messing sounds up and anything goes if it sounds right. Restoration work like noise reduction is a separate topic.

I use the ReaEQ for my general channel eq. Cuts only. I almost never boost an eq in general. If I didn't have the UAD compressors (1176, LA-2A, 670), I might settle for the Waves versions. They're pretty far from the quality of the UAD versions but they still are the NEXT best choice that I'm aware of. I'll still use one in a pinch when I run out of UAD card and I'm too impatient to render a stem.

Izotope has the noise reduction and restoration magic. Their broadband nr is the most useful I've ever heard and used. The spectral editor lets you magically remove sounds with no artifacts left in the rest of the content. (Just pulled that up last night to remove 3 timing stick clicks from the OHs,hat,snare,floortom mics while leaving the cymbal fade and tom fade perfectly artifact free. Try that with tape! )
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Old 01-03-2015, 08:54 AM   #15
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It's my belief that the Waves plugins are not inherently special. I don't think there is anything they do that can't be done with many other VSTs.

BUT,

They have their act together when it comes to presets. If you don't know what you are doing, you can probably fake it with their presets.

But that's a pretty expensive set of parameters...
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Old 01-03-2015, 09:06 AM   #16
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Some Waves plugs I don't mix without. Doubler, supertap, RenComp, to name a few and X-Noise and X-Hum are handy.

I know people say "You can get that done with other plugs.", which is true, but unless I missed something ReaDelay doesn't have modulation does it? Is ReaVerb on par with Waves Verbs? But you can say that about any plugin really. No mfg plugs are truly irreplaceable.

Kinda like FabFilter EQ. A good EQ is a good EQ but it's UI is better than most, certainly better than ReaEq imo and if workflow matters anywhere, it matters everywhere.
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Old 01-03-2015, 02:02 PM   #17
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Rencomp is their best product IMO, they nailed the interface and most importantly, how the controls interact from a linear standpoint with what it does. A bazillion alternatives for free though, IMO.

Delay 8 by Tonecarver does what Super Tap does, albeit a slightly trickier interface.

I think Valhalla sounds better than any of Waves reverbs, YMMV.
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Old 01-03-2015, 02:19 PM   #18
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Yeah. I never use Waves verbs tbh.

But anyway, Waves gets a lot of negativity because of who they are and the price point. Most kinda relatively expensive things do and yeah, there's a lot of great inexpensive plugs out there now for sure.

Love the free Thrillseeker LA. Probably the only free plug I always use. There's also a couple of plugin gems in every good host. In S1 TriComp is a nice no muss no fuss bus comp.
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Old 01-06-2015, 06:25 PM   #19
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Default Waves Gold

Bought the Waves Gold bundle recently, at a sale price of 199 USD. Though there are many VSTs both freeware and purchased ( I've got quite a few) that pull off the same thing, not many have the stability and bug free performance that Waves has. That is their reputation. These plugins do impart a colour which I can only describe as full, clear, and impactful. I use these plugins now to impart character to my mixes and use the Reaper plugins for their transparency and precision. Yes, I still use some of the freeware/low cost stuff ( DdMF channel strip, and DaSample Glaceverb. I'll never leave home without them ). Frankly, if it wasn't for the sale, I wouldn't have bothered buying into Waves ( 800 USD regular price ). Oh.. and I have Isotope RX 3 and the mix/master bundle. Never had a stability issue with the mix/master stuff, and RX 3 is invaluable, albeit rarely used swiss army knife ( check out Acon if your not in need of spectral editing ). All these products mean nothing if you can't do a decent, professional mix with just Reaper alone. With that in mind, check out graham@therecordingrevolution.com for his video tutorials and free Ebook on this subject.
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