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Old 12-03-2010, 01:23 PM   #1
jonespnice
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Default What are your opinions of Reaper 4 so far?

So far I'm not too impressed with version 4, it doesn't seem like a major update and the new features probably won't improve the way that I work. The one feature that I like the most is the media explorer being able to import time selection audio instead of the whole loop, I just wish that you could drag those selections right into your vsti sampler so that I could easily snatch a kick from here and a snare from there and ect.
But don't get me wrong I'm not hating on Reaper 4 but I was just expecting more, maybe reskinned plugins, maybe a feature similar to Reason's block feature, I don't know. It just doesn't have a major update feel to me.
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Old 12-03-2010, 01:47 PM   #2
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I get where you're coming from. But remember that the program is constantly updated, and you're using a behind the scenes version of 4. A pre-release that will evolve quite a bit before the official release. And you can influence what features that official version will have. Cheers.
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Old 12-03-2010, 01:48 PM   #3
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This thread already exists:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=69775
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Old 12-03-2010, 02:03 PM   #4
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Since you can hold alt and control to drag an item straight of the arrange and into a sampler (or folder) I wouldn't be surprised if you could so this with a modifier in the media bay since it really is just a wrapped explorer.

And if you look at reaper 3s development stage you'll find lots of big things were added later in development.
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Old 12-03-2010, 02:06 PM   #5
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I think it's all about making a framework or a foundation. Many users have many differing ideas about mouse customization, and GUI theme and layout. These were two areas which, if cockos had just chosen one best way, it may have taken up more of their development time and then also would have made reaper more restricted to certain people... although there was certainly a lot of hard work put into play with this new version, now they can concentrate on some other things, and tweak these frameworks to allow users to do what they need (assign right click on the mouse please!)...

I think it's great... Reaper also did get some new features, such as the area selection improvements, stereo panning features, and also some other things which are "true" new features.

as far as it being a "major" update, of course it doesn't feel like that right now - it's not finished yet! If you had read the prerelease overview statement, there are things yet to come for reaper 4. The cycle could take month(s)... and therefore, many new features could be added in that time, including some user/dev layouts..
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Old 12-03-2010, 02:07 PM   #6
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Keep in mind that Reaper 4 hasn't been released yet, it's only in alpha. Reaper will only get better from here and like jeffsanders said, it's constantly getting updated.
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Old 12-03-2010, 02:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
and also some other things which are "true" new features
input chains...
huge. absolutely huge

what we've seen so far is the tip of an enormous iceberg.
WALTER changes everything.
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Old 12-03-2010, 02:40 PM   #8
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Walter does change everything, I've never been interested in theme making, but now I am, I personally think it is a unique idea with a bit of love is absolutely destructive.....
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Old 12-03-2010, 02:58 PM   #9
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<semi - rant ..
IMO
Reaper 4 = The EMACS of DAWs

I'm still not convinced the complexity comes with additional power. So far it just seems like, "oh you want to do something simple? just do this really complex setup using these complex/confusing disconnected pop up windows then WHALLA..."

I thought applications were supposed to hide complexity, not add to it.

So, I had some expectation that R4 would get a new UI, no shock there. But, I was hoping for something along the lines of that FR that Brice drew out. Not an extension upon the existing UI that adds another thousand things I have to connect together myself. Obviously, part of my problem is my own "expectation." But, I don't think I'm alone.

sorry, to be negative but the alpha seems to be heading in the wrong direction IMO. I could be wrong and all the loose threads will get tidied up as we go and the R3 methodologies will be hidden, but it doesn't seem that way right now.
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nym View Post
input chains...
huge. absolutely huge
What are you using them for? I can't imagine how it's any different than monitoring through effects and then just leaving them on.
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Old 12-03-2010, 04:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonespnice View Post
So far I'm not too impressed with version 4, it doesn't seem like a major update and the new features probably won't improve the way that I work. The one feature that I like the most is the media explorer being able to import time selection audio instead of the whole loop, I just wish that you could drag those selections right into your vsti sampler so that I could easily snatch a kick from here and a snare from there and ect.
But don't get me wrong I'm not hating on Reaper 4 but I was just expecting more, maybe reskinned plugins, maybe a feature similar to Reason's block feature, I don't know. It just doesn't have a major update feel to me.
Having been a software developer myself in the past, I'm guessing that there are a lot of changes 'under the hood', and that the new internals need to be of known stability before new features can be implemented. That's the way I'd do things, anyway. In fact, in past projects that I've been involved in sometimes features were deliberately removed from a program while the underlying engine was being reworked.

I have to say I like what I've seen so far, but I've only looked at v4 very briefly.
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Old 12-03-2010, 05:07 PM   #12
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Walter seems i guess interesting, but will that allow skinning of plugins?

idk, i don't think i'm ever gonna use WALTER. i might for one or two things potentially. it's too much work to make a theme, i'm not into making themes really, i'm into making music. it's cool others could do things, and i'm sure some cool things will be done, but in my experience themes and skins and stuff that others do i usually don't find super attractive (i see differently a bit too cause i'm slightly colorblind so maybe that has something to do with it) but also and more importantly i find useability and stuff like that takes a back seat when i do find beautiful skins. usually only in one or two spots, but one or two spots for me is too much when it comes to using a tool.

i didn't check WALTER out though, only kind of deciphered what it was from posts. i gather its a way to skin and not only change the images but change things around as well?


it seems to me that also mixing and matching skins together won't be easy either and might create conflicts so i won't be using that much i don't think.


although it is cool that reaper kept along the lines of customizability, i think alot of people like that and it's a strength of reaper so its cool the skinning got more customizable, and the mouse behaviour as well. that's quite awesome, and THAT i think i will use, it's just a matter now of figuring out the best way to take advantage of that feature.

as for skinning? what do i want different? well not much. only not having the toolbar change size when i move track pane size, and sticking my widening pan under my other pan instead of beside. appart from that my skin is locked in and quite awesome for how i use reaper.

and ya, i don't think there have been many huge game changers in r4 but i didn't expect any or many really. i mean i like reaper how it works. just some things kind of suck and could be improved upon. that's all really i want. i'm not a bells and whistles kind of guy, i like quick efficient simple and lacking unexpected problems, which reaper does have at times. it does crash on me, and takes sometimes do weird stuff. it has cost me data before and that sucks. i'd rather never have it do that then have some new kind of feature available.
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Old 12-04-2010, 04:18 PM   #13
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+ 1,000,000 to the above post.
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Old 12-04-2010, 04:33 PM   #14
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I'm really excited about Reaper 4. Anybody that was around for 3's alpha phase has to remember the huge amount of improvements and features that came over the months during that period.

I've been reading a lot of negative posts from disappointed users and I'm baffled by that. If this alpha process is anything like 3's, there will be plethora of new features and enhancements that will be added over the next couple of months.

By no means do I think everyone will be pleased, but I'm pretty sure the majority will be happy.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louie View Post
I've been reading a lot of negative posts from disappointed users and I'm baffled by that. If this alpha process is anything like 3's, there will be plethora of new features and enhancements that will be added over the next couple of months.

By no means do I think everyone will be pleased, but I'm pretty sure the majority will be happy.
+1111111111111111

the amount of negative comments about an early alpha version makes me wonder why people keep ignoring the alpha aspect of this early release. its not like they said "...these are the only features we are adding." this process will continue and more things will be added iwht each alpha and beta.

honestly, none of the major features i had personally hoped for have appeared in this alpha but i'm still blown away at what they are giving us. regardless of whether or not my specific features ever get added, my thanks and appreciation for what they are doing cannot be expressed enough.

everyone is of course entitled to their own opinions, but it'd be nice to at least wait till a prerelease is thrown up before mentioning how disappointed you are that feature x,y, and z have not been added.
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Old 12-04-2010, 06:23 PM   #16
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Agree totally with the above.

It seems the constant impatient requests for V4 lately are now turning into is this really all topics. No, it isn't, this is just the start.

But that in no way means the final V4 will be a recording revolution either...some people seem to put way too much weight and unrealistic expectations into new version releases. Especially from Cockos, where a steady flow of improvements over the whole cycle of any release is more of a norm, rather than just once a year paid surprise like from some others.
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Old 12-04-2010, 06:56 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slops View Post
+1111111111111111

the amount of negative comments about an early alpha version makes me wonder why people keep ignoring the alpha aspect of this early release. its not like they said "...these are the only features we are adding." this process will continue and more things will be added iwht each alpha and beta.
Most of comments I've read that had a negative slant are complaining because the UI is still cumbersome and overly complicated. I don't want to write themes or actions or macros or JS scripts etc.. just to do stuff that is a basic editing 101. I don't want to drill down through endless menu select combinations that work in conjunction with some other arcane setting somewhere that gives me an indecipherable result. The interface is just too damn convoluted. Maybe I'm being an idiot, but I don't see how WALTER fixes that no matter how much work WT and the rest of the guys put into a base theme.

I don't have any problem at all with the Alphas rolling out features a bit at a time. That's what they are for. Reaper seems to be getting several of the features I wanted, like proper pan and pan law. However, from what I've seen so far, it suffers from the same obtuse implementation that the rest interface already has.

At it's core Reaper is awesome. Trying to flip the right switches to get it to do what you want, when you want is a chore.
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Old 12-04-2010, 07:35 PM   #18
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Personally the main problem I have is that in that article I read the cockos guys were saying the new update was going to be big, and so far it just doesn't seem big. When I think of "big" I think of things that will drastically change/improve my workflow, things like timestretch, vari-speed, Reaper's great routing, ect.
Reaper 4 has some nice improvements, and it's still a great daw, but no show stopper features in the new update. Everyone keeps saying that this is just the alpha and more feature will probably be added but isn't the beta-testing just to improve features and not so much for adding features?
I'm still a die-hard Reaper user though.
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Old 12-04-2010, 07:42 PM   #19
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The good thing is that whitetie is trying to put together the ultimate default theme by the time 4 is actually out so if you haven't already it's worth getting involved in the two threads in this forum that are all about getting it right

As for being convoluted, there's a lot of "detailed stuff" in reaper that can be a bit like that yes but no more I find than say Nuendo which also deals it's fair share of "stuff".

That's not to say we can't take the menus further towards the excellent set up of "reamenus" (which I might start a thread for) BUT I have found that some of the menus seem to have been made a little better already.

Anyway, It really is hard to please us all (including me) but I'm glad there's a dev team (team? seems out of place for 2/3 guys) behind reaper that are trying hard to get things right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcecil View Post
Most of comments I've read that had a negative slant are complaining because the UI is still cumbersome and overly complicated. I don't want to write themes or actions or macros or JS scripts etc.. just to do stuff that is a basic editing 101. I don't want to drill down through endless menu select combinations that work in conjunction with some other arcane setting somewhere that gives me an indecipherable result. The interface is just too damn convoluted. Maybe I'm being an idiot, but I don't see how WALTER fixes that no matter how much work WT and the rest of the guys put into a base theme.

I don't have any problem at all with the Alphas rolling out features a bit at a time. That's what they are for. Reaper seems to be getting several of the features I wanted, like proper pan and pan law. However, from what I've seen so far, it suffers from the same obtuse implementation that the rest interface already has.

At it's core Reaper is awesome. Trying to flip the right switches to get it to do what you want, when you want is a chore.
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Old 12-04-2010, 07:53 PM   #20
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Read the amount of stuff that was added in the development stage of reaper 2 to 3 (it's here http://www.reaper.fm/whatsnew.txt), It's not a bad size list and that was when lots of basic stuff was still needed so we should see more stuff added soon.

Also, Reaper seems to be updated once a year with a "major" update BUT in the months I have been with them there has been some pretty big things added overall so I think over this year most of the things that don't make the pre will at some point.

Quote:
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Personally the main problem I have is that in that article I read the cockos guys were saying the new update was going to be big, and so far it just doesn't seem big.
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Old 12-04-2010, 07:54 PM   #21
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Ok, if you don't like the menus that come with reaper, vote here.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=69990
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:06 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonespnice View Post
Personally the main problem I have is that in that article I read the cockos guys were saying the new update was going to be big, and so far it just doesn't seem big. When I think of "big" I think of things that will drastically change/improve my workflow, things like timestretch, vari-speed, Reaper's great routing, ect.
Reaper 4 has some nice improvements, and it's still a great daw, but no show stopper features in the new update. Everyone keeps saying that this is just the alpha and more feature will probably be added but isn't the beta-testing just to improve features and not so much for adding features?
I'm still a die-hard Reaper user though.
This is an Alpha not Beta. Like I said in my previous post, it took several months to get through 3's alpha and there were significant additions throughout the whole process.
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:15 PM   #23
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Love Reaper , but this programmers mentality makes me frustrated at times.
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:22 PM   #24
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Generally cockos only releases alphas to irc or privately, in this case releasing it semi-publicly will speed up the whole bug-fixing and feature-tuning stage a huge amount. It's also a hell of a lot of work for them at once fixing it, so you have to feel for them at this stage, I guess they expected some negative comments anyway, but please try to remember it's very early days yet.

I expect new features to be added even after it goes beta, so I will refrain from complaining about MY features not being in there until we're nearly at the finish line...which is probably at least a few months off.
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Old 12-04-2010, 08:29 PM   #25
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Ok, if you don't like the menus that come with reaper, vote here.

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=69990
It isn't the menus, it's the entire interface. It's setting a preference, that is overridden by a another preference which is modified by a menu selection, which is modified by a different preference, which is controlled from a different button.

things like the combinations for loop recording, takes and free item positioning. It just isn't that hard. You bring up Nuendo... loop recording takes if VASTLY easier in Nuendo. It's VASTLY easier in Samp. The settings are all together and what they do makes sense.

Arming and monitoring is another example. The number of steps and menu options just to monitor an input is ridiculous. What's funny is that currently in the 4 theme, instead of removing the unnecessary parts, they've added most or all of the options for recording/monitoring to several menus. Having the same drop down on three controls within 1/4" of each other on the same track, is an indicator that something is amiss.

Here's the deal though. I'm just ranting in the hopes that it will improve. IMO the under the covers part of Reaper is better than Cubendo and Samp, both of which I own. I complain because I care.

I'm also a USER when it comes to audio tools. I've farted around writing VSTi and such, but I really don't want to code things for my DAW. I want it to work intuitively out of the box. For me, Reaper fails that test up till now. As I said in a previous post Reaper is like the Emacs of DAWs. It's very, very powerful if you have the patience and time to configure, script and extend the shit out of it.
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Old 12-04-2010, 09:04 PM   #26
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Love Reaper , but this programmers mentality makes me frustrated at times.
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Old 12-05-2010, 09:45 AM   #27
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I complain because I care.
Wow - my wife must care about me a lot!
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Old 12-09-2010, 05:16 AM   #28
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Hi,

if you do serious audio recording/mixing/production, you spend most of your time editing. Reaper is quite good at it, but the main feature I missed from version 3 is a streamlined way of multitrack drum quantizing. Beat Detective IOW. There are ways of doing this in Reaper, and they work, but they're a bit of a PITA, I'd love to have something more streamlined. Plus, the tab-to-transient function (essential) doesn't seem to work flawlessly - it basically misses many transients, no matter how you set the sensibility.

That's from Reaper 3. I'm not downloading the Reaper 4 Alpha because I sincerely don't have the time. Has this been taken care of?

The GUI: WALTER seems like a good idea, but actually I don't care much about it. Reaper's GUI is fine already - I use Reaper to produce music, so as long as it works and doesn't make me waste my time looking for things I'm fine with it.

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Old 12-09-2010, 05:33 AM   #29
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I like the new improvements, but to me, they're sort of minimal. I was honestly hoping for the session/matrix view to make it to this version. I really wonder if they're ever going to add this to Reaper, it's my biggest wish regarding features for Reaper.
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Old 12-09-2010, 06:16 AM   #30
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"Needs more Cowbell"
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Old 12-09-2010, 07:07 AM   #31
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I'd be very surprised if the devs released an Alpha version for general download again, it must be very discouraging for them..
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Old 12-09-2010, 07:28 AM   #32
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I'm just an average user myself. I find no need/inclination to write code for anything or dabble with WALTER. as was mentioned by numerous posters above I just need a DAW that needs to work 'out of the box' so to speak. To bounce a mixdown from a time selection I don't wanna have to read the SWS manual and make an extension so that the item on the dialog isn't greyed out or when instantiating an EQ, I don't wanna have to figure out why it's panning as I increase the HPF. The old adage of more not necessarily being better comes to mind.

BUT...
At the same time though, I'm loving this whole geeked out trip and am on a new learning curve that will probably be useful in the future(not WALTER!) plus, the fact that I'm able to suggest features to the constantly updating machine which is the reaper cycle is out of this world. It's probably comparable to defecting from red Russia or jumping over the Berlin wall during the 70's. Think about it for a sec, the democracy which cockos offers us is just something really fresh. Nothing even distantly similar can be said about any other DAW I know of. This is why I'll continue to use reaper despite me being a computer Neanderthal.

P.s. WALTER?? c'mon!
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Old 12-09-2010, 07:42 AM   #33
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I just want to thank A LOT to the developers for releasing the alpha and let us participate in the beta testing experience.
I'm not sure about the complaints. Reaper is a solid and amazing program. It is only 60 bucks, the devs are really nice with the user base (if you happened to own stenberg you should know what I'm talking about).
C'mon!
Are the complainers really serious?
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:00 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonespnice View Post
So far I'm not too impressed with version 4, it doesn't seem like a major update and the new features probably won't improve the way that I work..
I have to say I agree with this but yet again as been said, it is only an Alpha?

I have no experience of alpha's betas etc, but with Reaper I jumped right in!

Im hoping Cockos will pull alot of tricks out of the bag for the finals of v4
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:07 AM   #35
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Default I agree with digux

It is exciting to be able to watch the progress of the new version from an alpha and to post my ideas (if I have any).

Also it seems that reaper finds its niche more and more because of it is highly cusomizable. But you have to be of a certain mindset to use such an application. No DAW is good for everyone.

But maybe it would be a good idea to have certain standard customizations provided with each install. With documentation this could be great for users at any level.

Every day there is a new alpha. It already feels like christmas
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:13 AM   #36
pgoelz
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Originally Posted by diegux View Post
I just want to thank A LOT to the developers for releasing the alpha and let us participate in the beta testing experience.
I'm not sure about the complaints. Reaper is a solid and amazing program. It is only 60 bucks, the devs are really nice with the user base (if you happened to own stenberg you should know what I'm talking about).
C'mon!
Are the complainers really serious?
I have been patiently waiting for some simple but very useful project management features since I bought Reaper six months ago. Like was said above, Reaper is wonderful for recording, editing and mixdown. But in my opinion it falls flat on its face when it comes to helping me efficiently and accurately assemble a project and burn it to a master CD (or to individual MP3s for interim approval uses). Yes, I can get it done. But it is far too manual. C'mon, what is so hard about putting a bunch of clips / projects on the timeline, hitting a button, and having the software space them, add track markers, name the track markers for the clip / project names, optionally burn them to MP3s named for the clip / project name and spit out a CD? A completely up-to-date CD incorporating all to-date modifications to all clips / projects without having to remember whether you really re-rendered clip 18 (for example).

The complainers are customers, right? The ones that buy the product. While this forum feels very much like a "club", we are all in the end customers for a product called Reaper. Telling customers that they shouldn't complain about features they want / need seems a bit short sighted.

In my case, at least, the total lack of those kinds of features in 4.x or any other useful major improvement over 3.x (so far) fuels the "complaints". Like I have always said, I LOVE Reaper. I bought it and I am glad I did. But I am still waiting for it to mature into a well rounded application that allows me to easily and accurately (IOW, not manually) get the job done from original recording to final CD.

I should add that I also own a copy of Vegas, which DOES have at least some of the "project management" features I want and I STILL use Reaper. I prefer its interface.... just feels easier to use.

Paul

Last edited by pgoelz; 12-09-2010 at 08:18 AM.
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:23 AM   #37
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Also it seems that reaper finds its niche more and more because of it is highly cusomizable. But you have to be of a certain mindset to use such an application. No DAW is good for everyone.
Don't forget that it is barely 10% of the cost of other applications like Wavelab. It already does about 80% of what Wavelab can do and with a bit of work that could be boosted to 99%.

I've been trying to justify the purchase of a copy of Wavelab for years and just couldn't make myself do it. Along comes Reaper and it was a total no-brainer.

Paul
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:56 AM   #38
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It beats the shit out of my $600.00 4 track I bought in 1983.
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:23 AM   #39
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I don't think the developers care that much about the complaints really. i mean obviously nobody likes complaints, but i think they realize that most people live in a kind of dream world, where they want and want and want, but don't really understand or realize what it takes to develop those ideas and features and stuff, nor what features that were made. so they hope and dream for stuff there gets tons of hype, like ooooh reaper 4 maybe it will have this or this or this, and it all gets built up and in the end reaper is not some huge team, not some huge enterprise, it doesn't cost an arm and a leg, and because of that, it gets i'd say quite cleverly designed and created in a simple fashion with alot of flexibility.

i think the devs expect this sort of behaviour, and i think they will release alphas to the public always because they save a bunch of cash on testing it themselves. it's really quite awesome. to some degree all of us here are creators of reaper, and even more so when you consider how different our versions are in functionality and design, and will become even more so with the new updates in R4.

I personally so far, see R4 as being exactly the sort of thing i thought it would be. and i'm glad about it.

i don't want a matrix view and a this view and a that view and this window and that one. what is matrix view really?

just make grouping available to group items accross tracks. activate slip eiting, and if i'm not mistaken, that's matrix view, minus an extra window.

but the action to make cross track grouping available does not yet exist. i do think that would be cool though.

I mean we could sit here and dream up of all sorts or fantastic ideas, and then expect to pay 60$ for the software and get constant updates, and nearly instant reaction on our own comments for new features at any time during a release, and all this customizability, and very quick bug fixes and feedback of support, but that would just be unrealistic.

there are good points and bad points to everything. when you decide what software, or what car, or what computer, or whatever that you're going to buy, you need to take all the points into account, and ya if you pay enough you can usually get the ultimate in what you want. I mean at the very maximum you could buy your own team of developers and have them make you your perfect DAW.

reaper is no different it has good points and bad points. one thing that might be considered a bad point is there won't be many huge extravagant completely different areas of the program. i mean when you think about it something like matrix view is a program within a program. lots of other things are very complicated and long to code as well. the developers have limited time and need to choose what to change and what to fix and what to improve on, and ya, they listen to us for those.

but they can't give all of us every feature we want. but they can make more customizability, and give us the power to make many of the features we want for ourselves. and that's what they've done. this release i think reflects that.

it's a very reaperish update imo.
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Old 12-09-2010, 09:32 AM   #40
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I'd be very surprised if the devs released an Alpha version for general download again, it must be very discouraging for them..
I think they know "people" well enough to live with the complaints

I have never seen a DAW forum or any forum without them but this forum has never fell into the "depths of despair" any where near the level some of the other forums have.
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