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03-04-2011, 05:55 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,554
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Pooled items suggestions
Pooled items (aka ghost items/copies) is one of the major new MIDI features in v4. And it's awesome. But I have some suggestions after working with it a bit. Pooled items can come and bite you in the back if you're not very careful. Because you may spend a lot of time working on a specific part of the arrangement, while unintentionally changing another (pooled copy) without realizing.
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(1) pooled items need to be made very obvious, even in minimal track heights.
Εxample with pooled vs grouped items:
Here are four selected items in the arrangement. The items on the right are grouped, and the red border around them makes it pretty obvious.
The items on the left are pooled, but there's no obvious indication.
Suggestion: A special border (e.g. dashed) for pooled items when selected. Visible at all track heights.
Ideally, and this is just my opinion, pooled items should not look exactly like regural items.
Support this in the Issue Tracker: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=4347
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(2) FR: split pool group (or 'make unique'). To allow you to select some pooled items (of the same group), and make them a separate pool group.
Example: Say you have a MIDI loop, pooled (repeated) over your arrangement. And you decide that it should sound a little different over the chorus. What if you selected the pooled copies in the chorus, do a 'split pool group' and these copies become a separate set of pooled items.
Support this in the Issue Tracker: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=4348
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(3) FR: New mouse modifier for arrangement left-drag: Draw MIDI item, obey pool mode preferences.
In Preferences->Media->MIDI
There's a switch for pool mode. Unfortunately this setting doesn't apply to the mouse modifier actions, which need to be set separately. This creates dichotomy (relevant settings split in different places).
Please provide the mouse modifier action to obey that global setting when drawing items. Turning pooled items on/off on all mouse/keyboard/item operations should be determined by a single option!
Support this in the Issue Tracker: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=4349
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(4) It is too easy to unpool an item by a single-click on the item button.
Make it more difficult to do so... e.g. Double-click and/or Alt+click on the button to unpool.
Single-click could simply select the item.
(Extra usefulness: Ctrl or Shift click could select all items in the pool.)
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(5) Pooled items should be clearly indicated in the MIDI Editor.
For example clear notification on the title or menu bar. And pooled item symbols in the track/item list in the filter window.
This has become even more important now when MIDI editing can be done almost entirely inside MIDI editor without looking/using arrange view.
Last edited by Evan; 01-09-2015 at 09:16 AM.
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03-31-2011, 02:48 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,554
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Bump for pool love
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05-06-2011, 02:02 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,554
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bump for the beta phase... very important stuff for rounding off pooled items, especially point (1) can lead to accidents very easily. Please support (and discuss) these.
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05-06-2011, 02:13 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,296
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Sound excellent.
+1
__________________
I am a universal adaptor.
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05-06-2011, 02:18 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan
(4) It is too easy to unpool an item by a single-click on the item button.
Make it more difficult to do so... e.g. Double-click and/or Alt+click on the button to unpool.
Single-click could simply select the item.
(Extra usefulness: Ctrl or Shift click could select all items in the pool.)
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This is good stuff. Although personally I think single-click is ok. A bit caution is always advised
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05-06-2011, 04:07 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 372
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Agreed on all points
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05-06-2011, 05:18 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 89
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(1) yes, color is great but it's not enough.
(2) it's a really pain to do that actually, we have to duplicate one of the pooled item, to unpool it, and then recreate all the sequence with the new pooled item.
The ability to select different pooled item (I mean different colored pool item) at the same time, duplicating them, and create a new set of new pooled item for each pool would be a must.
A way to manage pooled item from the project bay would help too.
(3) would definetly make things more coherent.
(4) is not a big problem for me, it's like mute and lock buttons.
One problem about unpooling that is that you cant (or maybe I dont know how to) "repool" items after unpooling (even without modification) the item are the same on the bay, but they cant be "repooled" together ...
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05-06-2011, 05:41 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,554
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Thank you all for the discussion so far!
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikael
[b](1)
(4) is not a big problem for me, it's like mute and lock buttons.
One problem about unpooling that is that you cant (or maybe I dont know how to) "repool" items after unpooling (even without modification) the item are the same on the bay, but they cant be "repooled" together ...
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The problem, as you pointed out, is that this is a 'destructive' operation. Unlike mute or lock buttons. Unpool is not a toggle, it's a permanent change of state.
I am being extra cautious with pooled items, because there's great potential for accidents. Editing a single item could screw up the arrangement several measures later, and go unnoticed. It has to be as much safe, as it is powerful a feature to have.
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05-06-2011, 07:02 AM
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#9
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Italy
Posts: 4,327
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Agreed on all points, especially 2) and 4)
Well put!
- Mario
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06-28-2011, 05:02 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,554
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bump for further discussion+attention
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06-28-2011, 05:14 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,111
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Pooled items should be clearly indicated also in MIDI Editor.
For example clear notification on the title or menu bar. And pooled item symbols in the track/item list in the filter window.
This has become even more important now when MIDI editing can be done almost entirely inside MIDI editor without looking/using arrange view.
jnif
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06-28-2011, 05:22 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,554
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great point jnif, added to the original post
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08-01-2011, 05:48 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,554
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bump for some RC love...
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08-01-2011, 05:57 AM
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#14
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Italy
Posts: 4,327
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Extra bump, especially for points 1) and 4).
- Mario
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08-01-2011, 06:17 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: dusty hot place
Posts: 1,492
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Yes, this pooling functionality needs a bit of love before prime time /me thinks. At least in v4.0x
__________________
... yOu aNd mE are ...
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08-01-2011, 06:24 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere Between 120 and 150 BPM
Posts: 7,968
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I totally agree but really think it's idea is a great advancement for MIDI fools like me.
Little MIDI tricks can blossom under the right circumstances, and this being one of them...
Thank You...
__________________
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09-21-2011, 01:12 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,554
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12345.... (aka bump)
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09-21-2011, 01:27 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sweden.
Posts: 1,610
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Totally +1. I've had several situations where I had to go back a revision or two because I changed the wrong things. Sure, this is somewhat of a user error on my behalf but it could be clearer.
__________________
REAPER was made for you and me
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10-19-2011, 01:41 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,554
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bump...
now that R4 is official, maybe this thread belongs to the Feature Requests?
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10-19-2011, 07:41 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The Reflection Free Zone
Posts: 3,026
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan
now that R4 is official, maybe this thread belongs to the Feature Requests?
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Do It!
It's these problems that make me so cautious that I don't even use pooled MIDI, I just don't trust myself with it the way it is ATM.
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10-19-2011, 10:13 PM
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#21
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Caracas, Venezuela
Posts: 8,687
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan
bump...
now that R4 is official, maybe this thread belongs to the Feature Requests?
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Hey Evan, I can move it there, just let me know
__________________
Pressure is what turns coal into diamonds - Michael a.k.a. Runaway
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10-19-2011, 11:52 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,554
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Please do Merc, thank you
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10-20-2011, 08:47 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 3,000
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Yes.
Is there an official FR for this?
Very frustrating to need to zoom, scroll, etc, just to see if there are any pooled items.
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01-17-2012, 05:02 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Here
Posts: 3,000
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sorry wrong thread nevermind.
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03-18-2012, 07:24 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,554
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bump!..... and some dots....
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03-18-2012, 04:14 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan
The problem, as you pointed out, is that this is a 'destructive' operation. Unlike mute or lock buttons. Unpool is not a toggle, it's a permanent change of state.
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Technically it's not difficult to check whether MIDI items are identical. In fact, there could be a 'Repool to...' menu with the list of all possible 'parents' for a given item.
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06-19-2012, 10:27 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,296
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Whooo!
Brilliant stuff!
__________________
I am a universal adaptor.
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08-28-2012, 03:33 AM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,554
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bringing this back to attention....
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09-09-2012, 06:43 AM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,554
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bump... points 1, 2 and 3 are now in the issue tracker. Please vote/discuss if you care. Thanks!
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09-09-2012, 08:52 AM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hungary
Posts: 3,129
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__________________
panda in the desert
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09-09-2012, 12:31 PM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 9,073
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i haven't used pooled items much yet, because i only just realized what it was, and haven't done much midi yet since, but, for me, i need for the color of all pooled items to be the same, and change randomly. single items should be easy to unpool and repool. also, to be able to pool portions. so say you have 2 pooled items for a chorus, of say 4 bars, you should be able to cut the fourth bar, unpool that, and still have the first 3 bars pooled with the rest of your pooled items.
also, identical items should be able to be pooled together. not sure exactly how is best this could be done, might be really tough, but i do agree that is important.
maybe an extra indicator for pooled items would be good as well. to me, how reason works is very close to what i'd want for this.
__________________
Slava Ukraini
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04-19-2013, 12:37 AM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: canada
Posts: 3,396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan
(2) Another feature that would be very useful to have is: split pool group (or 'make unique'). To allow you to select some pooled items (of the same group), and make them a separate pool group.
Example: Say you have a MIDI loop, pooled (repeated) over your arrangement. And you decide that it should sound a little different over the chorus. What if you selected the pooled copies in the chorus, do a 'split pool group' and these copies become a separate set of pooled items.
Support this in the Issue Tracker: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=4348
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has anyone heard any news on this, or a development I might have missed? The lack of this almost makes pooling more of a hinderance than help at certain times
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02-18-2014, 02:50 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 241
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WTF, how old is this shit? Why don't the developers care about this old problem? Can't be THAT difficult to fix....
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01-09-2015, 09:17 AM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,554
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bump for 2015.... here's hoping this feature set gets fixed this year....
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08-25-2015, 12:46 AM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 5
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I just came across this, and its sad that Reaper 5.0 still hasnt at LEAST improved the discrepancy between the Preferences/Options checkbox and the mouse modifier actions for Ctrl+LeftDrag(Copy) and Ctrl+LefDrag(Draw) not obeying this checkbox. The other requests to me are secondary but I wouldnt mind all of them. The good thing is that these fixes won't bother anyone.
please someone care.
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11-16-2015, 02:54 AM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Greece
Posts: 3,554
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End-of-2015 bump.... preparing for 2016
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11-17-2015, 02:42 PM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,173
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These are good ideas. +1
Bug:
Auto coloring for pooled takes overridden by track color.
(Um, it says "color ... items" but pooling is a take property.)
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=168942
edit- Where is #5 request?
Last edited by FnA; 12-04-2017 at 04:50 PM.
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11-20-2015, 09:32 PM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Yekaterinburg, Russia
Posts: 400
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+++++
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