View Full Version : Automation help...please

08-27-2007, 08:12 PM
i'm trying to automate a volume change on a fader but getting different volume levels AFTER the automation then before.

what am i doing wrong? is this a bug?

Here's what I do:

i carefully walk through the whole song - making sure exactly where, in db, the fader should be at the point i want it - then rewind and execute an automate.

click on VOLUME, VISIBILITY and ARM for the selected track, and then set WRITE to on. play the song and make the fader change where needed based on the aforementioned listen - then stop, and change the track back to READ.

Now - when i listen w/ the automation - the volume is actually several db less than what it said it was in the listen before automation. huh? there shouldn't be any errors in where i'm setting it. i'm being very, very careful. tried it at least 6 times tonight.

am i going nuts? what's up?


08-27-2007, 08:32 PM
when you are the volume envelope, it automatically adds a node at 0db. It would be better if it added that node based on where the fader was at - took the fader volume as a starting point.

try setting the fader in the ball park range like you did before arming the track for volume automation. Make a note of what that levels is. The when you arm the automation, right-click the first node and set point value type in the level the track was at.

then put it in write and boogie.

perhaps that will offer a better starting point and produce the results you are looking for.

08-28-2007, 09:11 AM
thanks for the response.

i tried this

armed volume - right clicked on the node at very beginning of track (only one i could see) - set point value to -3.10db - then set the track to WRITE.

the track fader went red - and even though the fader was down at 0 - when positioning the cursor over it displayed -3.10db.

pressed PLAY. when it got to the section i wanted quieter - i simply moved the fader to -7.22db. here's where things go wrong. the level when the instrument starts to play is less then when i don't have automation enabled. in otherwords - it's like automation is trimming a few db off the top even though -7.22db should be, ah, -7.22db.. so while -7.22db sounds great during mixing w/o automation - it's too quiet when using automation. make sense? so how do i know this? well - the aforementioned prior listen to enabling automation - AND it's a stereo track so the other track next to it, while at -7.22db with NO automation - plays louder then it's counterpart with automation.

maybe i have previous envelopes/automation causing trouble? I've tried several times to just simply delete all envelopes/automation on the track by right clicking and choosing 'clear envelope'. looks like it's doing the job - but not sure. am i missing something here? this shouldn't be this hard.

thanks in advance.

08-28-2007, 09:46 AM
Ok, a shot in the dark here...

your reference to the instrument has led me to assume that you are automating the level of a VSTi track:the level when the instrument starts to play is less

I am wondering if the node that you are first arming and modifying via set point value is in fact Track Envelopes -->Volume (pre-FX) in addition or opposed to the top choice Track Envelopes-->Volume. If that is the case, then I believe the node is actually attenuating the midi velocities sent to the plugin - thus the instrument will play softer. Then when you adjust the volume fader, in write mode you are essentially lowering the midi velocity and the track level for a double dose of attenuation.

ensure that you are arming the topmost envelope.


08-28-2007, 10:04 AM
thanks, but no - it's not a VSTI. it's a recorded keyboard.

and, yea, i am setting the VOLUME, not PRE-FX VOLUME.

stumped here. really bummed. have a lot of places this would be handy to have. i'll keep plugging away. i must be doing something stupid somewhere... thanks again.


08-29-2007, 10:00 AM
for the heck of it, i tried this again using the PRE-FX VOLUME and it seemed to work. hmmmmmm..... anybody have an idea why it seems to work as expected on PRE-FX VOLUME and not just VOLUME?


08-29-2007, 10:08 AM
I'll go for another shot in the dark...
Does the track have a compressor on it?
or some dynamics plugin that may be trying to compensate....

mphhhh... I should just stay out of this... over my head.

agreed... weird. broken maybe.

for the heck of it, i tried this again using the PRE-FX VOLUME and it seemed to work. hmmmmmm..... anybody have an idea why it seems to work as expected on PRE-FX VOLUME and not just VOLUME?


08-30-2007, 11:13 AM
sorry for delay in response. busy, busy here...

yes - ReaComp is the only FX on these tracks.

i did a small test. took ReaComp completely off - removed it. Did the automation and it still was several db under where it would be w/o automation.

i can't believe this wouldn't be a bigger issue and someone would have responded to this thread with a similar situation. maybe it's somewhere in my setup?


perhaps a trip over to the bugs forum may be the next logical step.