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FadingMusic
10-13-2014, 04:12 AM
Hello,

I'm looking for a professional sound engineer who is willing to freely mix a song of mine.
I've been trying to give it a proper closure, but I seem to lack some technique and proper mediation to do so.

Please listen to a RAW and instrumental version of the song in question: https://soundcloud.com/fadingmusic/shes-the-one-raw-instrumental}
Note that I can't re-record tracks other than drums and piano.

All tracks have been recorded in 24-bit/48kHz format with the AKG c214 stereo pair and the AKG Solidtube microphones and are neatly rendered at proper lengths and arranged in folders.


Thank you for time!

Feverdreamer
10-13-2014, 04:30 AM
I'll give it a go, I'm a bit quiet this month and it's always good to practice.

Do you have a deadline in mind?

FadingMusic
10-13-2014, 09:45 AM
Feverdreamer,

Thank you kindly for your reply, I took some time to listen to your work.
I like your music, it has a 60's analog-ish feel to it.

I appreciate the offer, but please know that I'm looking for a proffesional sound engineer.
Judging on your work and photos of your studio, I don't think we're at the same wavelength.

I've been working on this song for a very long time and I've already been through a couple of mixes before.
I'm looking for someone who has the proper mediation and technique to finish this song.

It has become painfully obvious that an untreated home studio just doesn't cut it.

Feverdreamer
10-13-2014, 10:04 AM
Ah that's just for my solo stuff which I choose to do at home, and has an intentionally lo-fi vibe to it. It doesn't really reflect what I'm capable of in terms of mixing other people's work. For the last 5 years I've worked at this studio:

http://www.shiresheadstudio.co.uk/

Two treated control rooms, live room, Dynaudio monitors, Pro-Tools etc.

You could always let me mix it AND let someone else have a go, then choose whichever mix you like best?

But it's really up to you, I won't be offended if you'd rather not.

FadingMusic
10-13-2014, 11:03 AM
The lo-fi vibe sound fits these songs surprisingly well, you should consider recording some of your work at work!

Thank you kindly for your offer, Shireshead looks amazing.

This song means a lot to me and I've been working on this song for a very long time.
I sacrificed a lot to record this song and I've tried to mix it myself, but I lack technique and proper mediation to do so.

I am very interested in working with you to give closure to this song.
Let me know if you're still willing to do this and I will send you the project files.

I've been waiting to give closure to this song for about 7 years and I'm willing to wait whatever time you need to do this.

HOFX
10-13-2014, 03:18 PM
Hey, I would like to have a go at mixing the song as well.

Take a look at https://soundcloud.com/san-celeste/dirty-magic

It's a different style of music, but listening to the instrumental demo, I already have ideas on where I want place the snare, acoustics and bass.

Do you have vocals on this?

Please don't be put off with my songs being completely different style, who knows, I might take the mix in a different direction you didn't expect?

paulheu
10-13-2014, 03:24 PM
I think the track would be an interesting project to mix and certainly there's ideas. But where do you find the audacity to ask for a free mixing service and then basically completely diss the one person offering you his help? I'm amazed he even came back with his work situation which seems to suite you fine. I guess getting a mix done in a professional studio for free would be a nice gift hen eh..

Your remarks here IMO show a complete disrespect for other people's work environments and a basic cluelessness on the process of mixing. Unlike you he appears to be able to get his work done and at a very decent standard too. Having a fully treated room does not guarantee a solid mix, a good engineer in a basic home studio environment will make the chance of that happening much better. I have heard awesome work mixed on a set of half decent cans and horrific tracks done at a professional multi thousand $$/day studio..

The reason you have not been able to finish this mix seem to be more because you are throwing up excuses and arguments for yourself such as not having a properly treated room (what is that anyway?).

FadingMusic
10-13-2014, 04:50 PM
@paulheu,

Look, I'm not here to disrespect anyone.
So far people have been helping me in a big way and I really appreciate it!

I've let people mix my tracks before and although I appreciate it, it sounded awful.
At one point I even saved up some money for having it done professionally just to find out that this so-called sound engineer doesn't know what he was doing.

I just don't want anyone wasting their valuable time on mixing something that I can never be satisfied with.
In a way, that has become my way of respecting people.

You're right about one thing though, he is able to get his work done at a very decent standard and I don't know the basics of the mixing process very well.
It may very well be true that I'm making up excuses and arguments for myself such as not having a properly treated room.

But please know this...

I've been struggling for years to write and record two decent songs that I'm not able to finish myself.
I've picked up instruments that I didn't even knew how to play and I bought high-end equipment just to make sure that I get the most out of whatever it is I'm trying to say.

It may not sound like much, but these songs mean everything to me and I'll do anything to give them a proper closure.


@Feverdreamer,

I would like to express my sincere apologies to you if I ever made you feel disrespected.
I do like your songs and your mixes are very decent, I never meant otherwise.

Lawrence
10-13-2014, 05:02 PM
My $0.02 after listening.

What are you looking for? In all honesty, there's not much there in the song to mix.

ponk
10-13-2014, 11:09 PM
Very good groove, nice atmosphere, but - some fundamental problems. We all get emotionally tied to our music, very hard to be objective, so please take these comments to be just my observations. Everything is in the mid freq range - guitar, piano, even most of the drum kit, so it's all kind of muddled. Also, to my ear, there are issues with pitch, as well as out of tempo signatures. Also, very minimalistic to the point of being perhaps too simple.

Realizing that you have had bad experiences with pro help before, you still might want to try track consulting services (http://innerportalstudio.com/track-consulting/) from Erik at Inner Portal Studio - only 30$ US, and he knows how to get things done. Good luck!

zeekat
10-13-2014, 11:31 PM
My $0.02 after listening.

What are you looking for? In all honesty, there's not much there in the song to mix.

I was expecting a clusterfuck of 38 sample layers judging by thread title. This is actually very tidy composition IMO.

Also, to my ear, there are issues with pitch, as well as out of tempo signatures. Also, very minimalistic to the point of being perhaps too simple.

Man, do people here operate on hardcore nitpick mode or am I just half deaf? Can't hear any pitch problems here to save my life, neither can hear jarring tempo problems. Won't comment on minimal amount of required musical complexity, as I think we don't have an ISO standard for that one yet.

Feverdreamer
10-13-2014, 11:40 PM
I think the track would be an interesting project to mix and certainly there's ideas. But where do you find the audacity to ask for a free mixing service and then basically completely diss the one person offering you his help? I'm amazed he even came back with his work situation which seems to suite you fine. I guess getting a mix done in a professional studio for free would be a nice gift hen eh..

Your remarks here IMO show a complete disrespect for other people's work environments and a basic cluelessness on the process of mixing. Unlike you he appears to be able to get his work done and at a very decent standard too. Having a fully treated room does not guarantee a solid mix, a good engineer in a basic home studio environment will make the chance of that happening much better. I have heard awesome work mixed on a set of half decent cans and horrific tracks done at a professional multi thousand $$/day studio..

The reason you have not been able to finish this mix seem to be more because you are throwing up excuses and arguments for yourself such as not having a properly treated room (what is that anyway?).


I understand what you're saying but I didn't take offence. I'm well aware that the music in my sig isn't the best example of a conventionally "good" mix that will appeal to anyone, so I can see why he was concerned. I also get the impression that English isn't his first language, which can sometimes make things sound a little blunter than they actually are!

I would be doing this for my own benefit really. I really want to get more practice in mixing songs that I didn't track. Usually I will record AND mix the song. So I saw it as a good opportunity to improve my skills. It wasn't all altruism on my part, believe me!



@paulheu,

Look, I'm not here to disrespect anyone.
So far people have been helping me in a big way and I really appreciate it!

I've let people mix my tracks before and although I appreciate it, it sounded awful.
At one point I even saved up some money for having it done professionally just to find out that this so-called sound engineer doesn't know what he was doing.

I just don't want anyone wasting their valuable time on mixing something that I can never be satisfied with.
In a way, that has become my way of respecting people.

You're right about one thing though, he is able to get his work done at a very decent standard and I don't know the basics of the mixing process very well.
It may very well be true that I'm making up excuses and arguments for myself such as not having a properly treated room.

But please know this...

I've been struggling for years to write and record two decent songs that I'm not able to finish myself.
I've picked up instruments that I didn't even knew how to play and I bought high-end equipment just to make sure that I get the most out of whatever it is I'm trying to say.

It may not sound like much, but these songs mean everything to me and I'll do anything to give them a proper closure.


@Feverdreamer,

I would like to express my sincere apologies to you if I ever made you feel disrespected.
I do like your songs and your mixes are very decent, I never meant otherwise.

Don't worry, don't feel disrespected. As I said above, I can understand why my solo music might isn't the best demonstration of my skills.

I'll send you a private message with my details and we can go from there.

FadingMusic
10-14-2014, 12:18 AM
@Lawrence,

Thank you for your feedback, I appreciate it.

I'm trying to get this track mixed so that it sounds full, dark and emotional.
There isn't really much to mix, but I never heard this song in it's full potential. It does however has a vocal and backing vocal tracks.


@Ponk,

When you'd add up all tracks together, it can sound muddy and there are timing issues.
Again, I to picked up instruments that I didn't even knew how to play.

I spend hours to record the guitar and bass to an somewhat acceptable degree.
I needed to somehow hit the record button, rush to my recording room and position myself in front of the AKG C214 stereo pair.

I've tried my best to make sure that the pich is acceptible.
However, both acoustic guitar and acoustic bass have dominant harmonics at around 987.77hz.


@Zeekat

It used have many layers, but in the end I've decided to keep it as simple as possible.

Ponk is right, there are certain issues with the recordings.
These issues are minimal and I've made sure that it is somewhat acceptable.


@Feverdreamer

Your mixes are fine considering you've done it in your own home studio, I can definitely hear that you know what you're doing.
English isn't my first language and I do my best to write everything the best I can.

I'm glad to hear that you don't feel disrespected.

Thank you very much, I appriciate it.
I will reply to your private message as soon as possible.

Right now, I have to rush to make it in time for my job interview.

paulheu
10-14-2014, 09:42 AM
It's good to read your responses to posts made. I get what you are saying but I agree with the notion you are way to attached to your music to be able to take a step back and let it go.

You really need to understand that composing and recording a track is not the same as mixing it, while I have a basic ability to read music and have played several instruments to some degree I'm not a performer in that sense. I do know that I am very capable of capturing what a performer or band is doing and make it sound good and have done so live for a good 15 years. People I have worked with knew what I did and hoe I did it so they were/are able to just do their thing on stage and let me handle the mix for them. Today I am working on getting to grips with doing the same with (pre) recorded music which is very different but obviously has similar traits.

There's a lot of interesting and valuable observations here on your music and IMO it would be well worth it if you try and take a step back and let those who feel they can work with what you have. For me I think I could make it sound better then it is now so let me know if you'd be willing to let me work with it..

For most of us here a track like this (and as we would be doing work for free) would be good practice which in no way means it would not be taken seriously.

FadingMusic
10-14-2014, 10:52 AM
Paulheu,

Feverdreamer is working on "She's the one" but I'm thinking about letting other people mix it too so that they can practice their skills.
That song means a lot to me and I'm afraid of what people might do with it.

I have another song called "Chances" that was recorded in the exact same way.
Please listen to a RAW and instrumental version of > "Chances" https://soundcloud.com/fadingmusic/chances-raw-instrumental

The vocals of this track however, are not as good as "She's the one" and has been regretfully ruined by misusing Melodyne.
I do not have a microphone anymore, so all I can do is try to recover it as natural as possible.

In the meanwhile, I will consider making both songs available for anyone who want to practice their skills.

mikeroephonics
10-15-2014, 02:09 AM
Won't comment on minimal amount of required musical complexity, as I think we don't have an ISO standard for that one yet.


I LOL'ed.

BeeStang
10-15-2014, 02:33 PM
crap people here are willing to freely mix? Man i have some complex songs that I wrote but are way hard for me to mix properly so i give up. never thought about asking, thought i'd have to pay for something like that.
hmmm.... what to do?
not to hijack this but any advice since we are kinda on the subject?

FadingMusic
10-15-2014, 04:27 PM
@BeeStang, It's okay.

I would prepare the project files in a way so that it is pleasant to work with, this is what I did:

1. Check project and adjust volume
2. Match the lenght of each track
3. Export to WAV files at the appropriate format (Mono/Stereo 24-bit 48kHz)
4. Organize the project files neatly in folders
5. Leave a text file in the main folder with detailed information about the project like BPM etc.
6. Double check
7. Highly compress project files with 7zip

Read my topic and learn from my mistakes ;)
Start a new topic in an appropriate forum and ask what you're looking for.

I wish I could help you out, but I don't think I can.

sammydix
10-15-2014, 07:00 PM
I'd like a crack at Chances for practice, how do I get the stems?

paulheu
10-16-2014, 01:33 AM
crap people here are willing to freely mix? Man i have some complex songs that I wrote but are way hard for me to mix properly so i give up. never thought about asking, thought i'd have to pay for something like that.
hmmm.... what to do?
not to hijack this but any advice since we are kinda on the subject?

Actually, if a song is interesting some of us would be willing to mix it and not charge you upfront, yes. Obviously if you want to eventually release such a track arrangements as far as compensation would need to be discussed. For me I have no problem mixing a track for free but will attach conditions on handing over a full length 'release quality' WAV file (for mastering).

FadingMusic
10-16-2014, 02:14 AM
Hello guys,

Just a little update on my song "She's the one"
User basszilla was kind enough to re-record his version of the bassline.

Please listen to "She's the one (version)" > https://www.dropbox.com/s/emhjfnw55s65jbf/She%27s%20the%20one%20%28version%29.mp3?dl=0
Feedback would be appreciated!

Lawrence
10-16-2014, 06:49 AM
Actually, if a song is interesting some of us would be willing to mix it and not charge you upfront, yes.

Yeah, that's a common thing. I used to do a lot of that but I don't do that anymore, partly because I can't get motivated without being paid so the result of that is never my best effort. Working for free is rarely fun and the genres that really excite me for mixing, classic R&B mostly, think Whitney, Celine, etc, etc, are for the most part completely missing from these kinds of endeavors, which are most often rock or EDM styles.

I mean, anyone that wants to hear 10 different mixes of their song for free so they can pick the best one can just go to MixOff.org and upload it.

paulheu
10-16-2014, 07:23 AM
Yeah, that's a common thing. I used to do a lot of that but I don't do that anymore, I stopped doing freebees in general because I found too much people were basically just fishing for a free mix and then release and keep whatever they make from it. Same thing live, I have helped several starting groups get off the ground only to find them going with some cheap cowboy once I had their gear tuned and the basic mix set up as presets.. And I am not the most expensive engineer you'll find while I feel my quality could bring in more. Nowadays It's a hobby more than a job and that gives me more freedom but I still do not do free stuff unless I keep control over the final product (which I'll gladly release at a modest fee).

Obviously every now and then something comes by which you just pick up for fun or practice, I'll happily give those up once I have done the best I can on them.. But those are free because I choose them to be, not because I'm asked to do it for free.

Lawrence
10-16-2014, 07:52 AM
I guess.

The thing is, 'full time' good mix guys really don't really audition for new work. They already have multiple commercial credits that outline what they're capable of so the "spec" thing is usually a non-starter.

I'm not one of those guys so I will occasionally mix a verse for a new client to give them an idea of what to expect if I don't already have something similar laying around. Mixing good demos isn't that hard, mixing something that amounts to a really competitive commercial record is a little harder.

For the most part, small studios like mine are in the demo business. Even though some of those people go to DiscMakers and get 500 CD's, it's still really a demo. On the chance that a label takes interest in the project more often than not they're going to reproduce / remix the entire thing... unless you've already sold 50k copies or something.

FadingMusic
10-16-2014, 08:16 AM
@Lawrence, @paulheu,

I get what you're saying, but I want to make clear that I'm not here to take advantage of people like that.
I respect other peoples work and I would certainly not release anything without discussing this with the engineer.


@HOFX, @sammydix,

I overlooked your reply, sorry about that.
Thank you for your interest, I appreciate it!

As of now, I found an engineer who offered me to mix "She's the one"
I'm thinking about releasing my project files to anyone who would like to practice their skills.

Lawrence
10-16-2014, 08:21 AM
@Lawrence, @paulheu,

I get what you're saying, but I want to make clear that I'm not here to take advantage of people like that.
I respect other peoples work and I would certainly not release anything without discussing this with the engineer.

Oh, sorry, I didn't think or didn't intend to imply that you were doing that. :)

It was just one of those random off-topic diversions. Sorry about that my friend. Back on topic.

FadingMusic
10-16-2014, 09:24 AM
@Lawrence,

It's okay, you're free to speak your mind. :)
I just wanted to make it clear just as well.

I've worked so long on this, I just want to give it a proper closure so that I can move on.
I will do everything I can do to return the favor.

BeeStang
10-16-2014, 02:23 PM
cool guys, thx so much for the off topic but very informative responses.

urednik
10-17-2014, 02:02 AM
gosh - last time I was asking for help with mix and almost no responses, here everyone wants to mix, and he don't want any help :)

Ok, ok, I know my recordings were not in a studio, but anyway interesting to see this.

FadingMusic
10-23-2014, 03:45 AM
Just a quick update on the mix.

Feverdreamer did a nice job on the mix for "She's the one"
Have a listen to his work on the mix > https://www.dropbox.com/s/ngsf3gyky2q4jvw/SHES%20THE%20ONE_MIX01.mp3?dl=0

Unfortunately, it wasn't what I was looking for.
We've decided to let someone else try to mix this song.

I'm looking for a professional sound engineer who gets what this song is about and is able to give closure to this song.

bladerunner
10-23-2014, 04:02 AM
Hi FadingMusic :) Is there a particular reason you don't want to pay for a pro engineer? Is it a trust thing or have you had a bad experience in the past? You say that you've put a lot of hard work in and you want to give it closure but you're willing to hand it to other amateur mixers? Seems like a strange decision to me - not trying to be disrespectful at all with that comment to you or anyone else in this thread - I just would have thought that if the track is very important to you then hiring a pro would tick all the boxes and allow you to move on. Also, you are highly unlikely to find any pro engineers who are willing to do it for free. I would very happily mix (and master) this but it would be for the going rate.

I like the track a lot btw - it sounds very much like Boards Of Canada (specifically 'Dayvan Cowboy' - very similar chord progression although in a different key) if they had taken a more 'raw', less produced approach.

whiteaxxxe
10-23-2014, 04:34 AM
Just a quick update on the mix.

Feverdreamer did a nice job on the mix for "She's the one"
Have a listen to his work on the mix > https://www.dropbox.com/s/ngsf3gyky2q4jvw/SHES%20THE%20ONE_MIX01.mp3?dl=0

Unfortunately, it wasn't what I was looking for.
We've decided to let someone else try to mix this song.

I'm looking for a professional sound engineer who gets what this song is about and is able to give closure to this song.

hm. I have listened to all what this thread is about.

I think, you, FadingMusic, dont know really what you want. that is taken from your vague explainings and you mentioning that you worked "years on mixing two songs" but never got to it. so you are lost in that 2 songs and you dont know what you are heading for?!

I assume, you want something soooo great that cant be delivered by the song. "shes the one" is a nice little tune, but you should have noticed after all this years, that its the song, that is served by the mix and not vice versa.

that much time and effort and expenses on 2 songs ... man, I would assume, that you have really lost your way and you stuck head over heels into this songs and cant see nothing of the problem you have from the outside.

no, I dont want to try mixing it, for I would make it only something brighter and clearer than the original. and that would be done in 15 minutes. ok, 20 minutes.

but thats not the point, so Ill leave it out. the point is: I bet, never ever will someone come up with a mix that only satisfies you halfway. because you want your songs unfinished - and here comes the psychology - because they are so important for you. if they should be mixed to your satisfaction, they were finished. a most important thing to you would be finished.

think about it ... you dont want them to be finished. you want them to stick around and be part of your life, they have to be unfinished. but if finished, you would have a really big hole in your life.

I bet, they will never will be finished.

FadingMusic
10-23-2014, 05:02 AM
@bladerunner,

There are a couple of reasons why I don't want to pay for an audio engineer anymore.

This is my first recording and I consider it as a demo.
I once paid for a self-proclaimed professional sound engineer and had a very bad experience.

Above all, it's for personal use only.
I don't aim to be a commercial artist and make money from it.

I really don't want to hand it over to amateur mixers, but I've become quite desperate to finish this song once and for all.
That's why I'm asking if a "professional" audio engineer is willing to make an exception.

@whiteaxxxe

Actually, I do know what I want and I do know how I want it to sound.
I'm realistically aware of its potentials and limitations.
I'm aware that mixing this song doesn't mean it will magically make this song better.

Yes, I pretty much lost my way, but isn't that what making music is about?
If I do something, I want it to be the best it can be.

I was satisfied with a mix once >https://soundcloud.com/fadingmusic/shes-the-one
I made a couple of last minute fixes and even re-recorded some tracks, so that's why I feel like it needs to be mixed again.

Maybe I don't want them to be finished in a psychological point of view, I really can't tell.

Look, I'm just asking if a professional audio engineer is willing to make an exception and mix this one for free.
I don't see the point in explaining myself over and over again.

bladerunner
10-23-2014, 05:25 AM
Why not submit your track to somewhere like this?

http://discussion.cambridge-mt.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=184

or perhaps start a thread at Gearslutz? You might get a few takers.

Or you could try going back to the mix yourself. The main problem with what I'm hearing in the mix you linked in your last post is that it sounds very muddy - look at the 200 - 800 Hz area in each instrument and try pulling out some frequencies where there are conflicts. Use a good analyzer (like voxengo span) to really pinpoint things.

Fex
10-23-2014, 05:34 AM
Just wondering if OP or BeeStang have considered crowd-funding a mixing project? Throw something like this on Kickstarter (www.kickstarter.com), or similar, and offer a free download to sponsors.
I'm good for 1.68.... no, wait.... 1.72!

technogremlin
10-23-2014, 05:51 AM
This is my first recording and I consider it as a demo.

This says it all. Just declare it 'being done' and move on. If not, then you are not in agreement with yourself about it being a demo.

Fictional Substance
10-23-2014, 06:51 AM
Is this a joke? I mean the title of this thread "Mixing the Unmixable" tells me this:

1: You need help mixing this song.
2: This song is viewed by you as not being able to be mixed.
3: Repeat from the beginning.

You need to break this cycle. You're caught in a loop, a two year loop. You're driving yourself crazy.

My suggestion is to move on and write a song that you like more than this one. Your obsession is hindering the better work to come.

Feverdreamer
10-23-2014, 06:57 AM
Just a quick update on the mix.

Feverdreamer did a nice job on the mix for "She's the one"
Have a listen to his work on the mix > https://www.dropbox.com/s/ngsf3gyky2q4jvw/SHES%20THE%20ONE_MIX01.mp3?dl=0

Unfortunately, it wasn't what I was looking for.
We've decided to let someone else try to mix this song.

I'm looking for a professional sound engineer who gets what this song is about and is able to give closure to this song.

I'd be interested in hearing what anyone else thought of my mix (linked above)

OP wasn't pleased with it, but I think a lot of that came down to clash in tastes rather than lack of ability on my part. I think I perhaps have a tendency to impart character on a mix, and that isn't really what he wanted.

I'm not pissed off or anything, I'd just be keen to hear what other people thought.

Fex
10-23-2014, 07:20 AM
I think it's a very good mix, but I think there's room for improvement.
I do like a dark piano, but this piano is just a little too dark for my taste.

FadingMusic
10-23-2014, 07:30 AM
@bladerunner,
What can I say?
Reaper is awesome, people using reaper are awesome! ;)

@Fex,
That's an interesting idea.

@technogremlin,
I should move on, and I do.

But I feel like this needs to be addressed, it's something I'm proud of.
I'm working on alot of other tracks, which I write in another state of mind.

I'll post an instrumental of one of those, soon :)

@Fictional Substance
The title was kind of a joke, of course it's mixable.
It is driving me insane, but it also taught me alot abound sound engineering.

@Feverdreamer
You've done a good job, I appreciate it! :)
I just think you misunderstood the sound I was aiming for.

tspring
10-23-2014, 06:08 PM
Feverdreamer has done a professional quality mix for you.

The problem is exactly as you state it - he does not know what you want, and therefore did not provide a mix that gave it to you. Any number of professionals will come up with an equal number of variants of a first pass mix, none of which are likely match what you have in your head. There is no single "professional mix" that all engineers would be working toward. Here are some suggestions:

Pick a couple of recordings that have the sound that you want. Send these recordings (or links to them) to the engineer with notes pointing out specific reasons why you have selected these recordings. Think hard about what it is that you want and do your best to articulate this. But as you are learning, it is not easy to communicate ideas about how recordings sound.

Given the apparent attention to detail that you express, even if the engineer manages to nail the sound of your example recordings, you are bound to want his initial mix tweaked further, most likely in an iterative fashion. If that is not a part of the deal then don't waste your time, because you will never be satisfied with the first pass. Perhaps Feverdreamer could get very close to what you want if you are willing to work with him in this way. Right now all you know is that he cannot guess what details of the mix are important to you.

T

Feverdreamer
10-23-2014, 10:59 PM
Feverdreamer has done a professional quality mix for you.

The problem is exactly as you state it - he does not know what you want, and therefore did not provide a mix that gave it to you. Any number of professionals will come up with an equal number of variants of a first pass mix, none of which are likely match what you have in your head. There is no single "professional mix" that all engineers would be working toward. Here are some suggestions:

Pick a couple of recordings that have the sound that you want. Send these recordings (or links to them) to the engineer with notes pointing out specific reasons why you have selected these recordings. Think hard about what it is that you want and do your best to articulate this. But as you are learning, it is not easy to communicate ideas about how recordings sound.

Given the apparent attention to detail that you express, even if the engineer manages to nail the sound of your example recordings, you are bound to want his initial mix tweaked further, most likely in an iterative fashion. If that is not a part of the deal then don't waste your time, because you will never be satisfied with the first pass. Perhaps Feverdreamer could get very close to what you want if you are willing to work with him in this way. Right now all you know is that he cannot guess what details of the mix are important to you.

T

I agree with you here. Although to be fair to the OP, he did give me some specifics and a reference. The reference stuff didn't have live drums, guitars or vocals though. It was mainly piano and synth (Trent Reznor's Social Network soundtrack), so I also referenced some other Trent Reznor stuff that had similar instrumentation to this song, which was a couple of songs from The Fragile by Nine Inch Nails.

THere were also a lot of stereo tracks in this, which I reduced to mono almost right away. I didn't the the stereo information was necessary on all of the instruments, so I kept it to the piano and drums, reducing the acoustic and some of the pads to mono, and panning them. He specified that he wanted the mix wide and clear, and I know that having a lot of stereo tracks in a mix will make it anything but. So I was pretty brutal in cutting some stuff out for the sake of the song.

I suggested that he posted my mix here, and get some feedback on it. Maybe get someone else to mix it too. Just to give him some perspective on it. I think he needs to distance himself somewhat from what was recorded, so he can concentrate on what serves the song and the mix. It's all very well having nicely recorded stereo parts, but if this doesn't serve the mix then I would ultimately lose that. That's how I work.

FadingMusic
10-24-2014, 03:26 AM
@Feverdreamer

Perphaps I do need to distance myself from what has been recorded so I can concentrate on what serves the song and the mix.
That doesn't mean that I need to distance myself from the sound in my head, right?

I like a wide dark strumming acoustic guitar that tickles my ears.
I like a warm sounding pad that blends and melts the song.
I like the piano to sound dark, emotional so that I can feel it.
I like the intro piano blending with the intro pads.
I like my version of the bass to be centred and thick.
I like having a wide and clear backing vocals that tickles my ears.
I like my voice to be honest and upfront without the use of flanger/phasing or echo.
I like a (soft) ping-pong delay configured 1/4 that mach the BPM of the song for the last last refrain lead vocal.
I like the drums to sound upfront, thick, centered while the toms are wide and not being over processed.
I like the song to built up from being quiet to a full sound.
I like the instruments and mix to be coated with a soft reverb so that it glues the mix.

I was influenced by "Still" from Nine Inch Nails.
Now add a little magic from the soundtracks that Trent and Atticus wrote for "The Social Network", "The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo" and "Gone Girl".

I don't like a hard panned track that is focussed on metal which typically has alot of "Thumb", "Snap" and buring pads and pianos.
Anyone can tell that this doesn't fit the song, right?

A lot of what I want highly depends on the recording, a mix can't make the way it was recorded better, I know that.
But I know that it's possible to achieve the sound what I'm looking for, for the most part.
There are a lot of ways to achieve this, there are a lot of ways to preserve the stereo tracks.

I want this song to sound like how I discribed it and I want the song to technically sound right.
I can't do this because I lack the knowledge and mediation to do so.

paulheu
10-24-2014, 04:18 AM
Unfortunately, it wasn't what I was looking for.
We've decided to let someone else try to mix this song.


What happened is that you were given a perfectly good and solid mix, especially for a 'first draft' and feel it does not meet your expectations/needs. You then seem to move straight to the 'let someone else do it' approach.

To me it seems you have not been willing or able to explicitly define what you are expecting, you also seem unwilling to put your trust in anyone else to do what you feel you can't.

Frankly speaking, I think your track is interesting and I think I get what you are asking for but the fact you seem unwilling to actually work with a mix engineer to get to where you want to be and if you were the process would probably be long and take a lot of effort and time I would not be willing to get my finger in it in this case. Not because I think I would not be able to deliver but because I fear you will never be satisfied and thus I am basically wasting my time.

paulheu
10-24-2014, 04:23 AM
@Feverdreamer

Perphaps I do need to distance myself from what has been recorded so I can concentrate on what serves the song and the mix.
That doesn't mean that I need to distance myself from the sound in my head, right?

I like .... (you like a lot!)


I want this song to sound like how I discribed it and I want the song to technically sound right.
I can't do this because I lack the knowledge and mediation to do so.

You are basically asking for a professional production of your music, without the option of overdubs or re-recordings and you are asking for this to be done at no cost to you..

I suggest you start reading up on this, teach yourself and maybe sign up for classes to become a professional engineer so you can do this yourself.. Although, properly paying a pro to do this for you will probably be faster and cheaper.

FadingMusic
10-24-2014, 04:56 AM
@paulheu,

It was a decent mix, I just don't like it.
I asked Feverdreamer if he was interested in doing a revision on his mix, but he insisted to let someone else mix it first.

Yes, I like alot, I don't care what other people want it to sound like.

I have nothing against some input from the audio engineer, he needs to be satisfied as well.
In the end, I need to be satisfied with the mix.

I don't expect a professional audio engineer to fix its shortcomings.
I'm simply asking for a professional audio engineer who can get the most out of this song.

If I could, I would do the same for someone else.

It's not a hard question, don't you think?
Either go with it, or let this thread rest in peace.

Feverdreamer
10-24-2014, 05:35 AM
Yes, I thought it best for FadingMusic to get some input from others on my mix, and possibly a mix from someone else, before I had another go at it. Because I feel that would give him some perspective.

Also, if someone else did the mix and got it closer then there's no point me doing it again.

The things he wanted to change about the mix would require me starting it again, near enough from scratch. It wasn't just a few tweaks here and there (as is usually the case when I submit a mix). If I'm going to start again from scratch for work I'm not being paid for, I'd rather he get some outside perspective first so that none of us are wasting our time.

FadingMusic
10-26-2014, 03:55 AM
I've decided to try and mix it myself.
Thank you all for your help, I appreciate it.

When it comes down to taste, I guess we differ too much.

Mink99
10-26-2014, 04:01 AM
Just my humble opinion, having returned from a very relaxing holiday in the sun...

Fadingmusic, i am sure you are caught in the trap of wanting everything, the guitar like in ..., the drum like somewhere else, the vox from here and and and....

Mixing a song is not making every track or instrument sound perfect, but to work out the essence of the song. And that is obviously what feverdreamer did. please be aware that others will hear your song not like you will hear it. I will hear your Song as one line of music, a melody supported by a beat and lots of other stuff.
I will not hear i as a bunch of tracks running in parallel. I will not hear the perfect guitar, supported by the perfect piano as you will hear it.
You invested a huge amount of work into each track, and therefor you will suffer from every little change on every single element, if it is not making this element even bigger .

In some simple words, you have to find the distance to your works, not looking at every detail, but at the overall tune. Like (i think it was Holger czuckay who said) the most important key in mixing is the delete key.

When i am stuck in the same trap (happens far too often) i try to rework this track, by muting everything, and then enable the 3-4 most important tracks again. Simplifying the drums, removing everything that is not absolutely needed, remove extensive reverbs and delays, just cut it down.

Then i will create a mixdown of this, so that it sounds as it should be. These are usually only 4-5 tracks so altough i am Not a professionally trained producer/engineer i can handle that. 2 days break.

Then i can add all the other tracks that were muted before. One by one. Often those tracks then are not required anymore and were only left because it was so much effort to create them. This is then a rebuilding process on clear priorities. I will hear when the song is complete, and when i hear this, still a lot of muted tracks will be there.

OpIvy
10-26-2014, 04:44 AM
@Feverdreamer

Perphaps I do need to distance myself from what has been recorded so I can concentrate on what serves the song and the mix.
..........
I want this song to sound like how I discribed it and I want the song to technically sound right.

Perhaps you need to stop being a tight ass, pull some $$ out and go to a pro studio. This is unmixable......