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Jeffsounds
12-06-2014, 11:47 PM
I found this a bit interesting. If this is correct, my mixes are a bit high all the way around.

The Copycat EQ Trick (http://www.ultimatemixingformula.com/copycat-eq-trick/?utm_source=ProSoundFormula&utm_campaign=4a850791b3-FL_2_Mix_Buss_Compressor_Infographic12_2_2014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_ca7c82fe56-4a850791b3-57347489&mc_cid=4a850791b3&mc_eid=48748123ee)

nicholas
12-06-2014, 11:54 PM
Good chart, thx for link.

rvman
12-07-2014, 12:12 AM
COOL. Thanks for the heads up.

Fergler
12-07-2014, 12:21 AM
Holy CRAP that was long winded I can't believe I sat thru the whole thing. It almost felt like one of those get money quick 30 minutes teasers to sell a product.

Coulda said all that in like 3 minutes then played the example at the end (Which was quite good though) and be done with it.

dobro
12-07-2014, 01:03 AM
The EQ matching thing is useful, but not as useful as just listening to reference mixes. The chart's a bit goofy. It's just a bunch of names and labels to describe lows, mid and high that are too loud or too soft.

Giano
12-07-2014, 01:47 AM
Interesting tutorial.
It is a commercial for Ozone 6 Eq, isnīt it ?!

"Reference Audio" and "Target Audio" are nice features,
Is Ozone EQ the only EQ with this feature ?
I know one could also do that with a Spectrum Analyzer
and make EQ settings manually, compare and tweak, tweak and compare...
more time-consuming.

DarkStar
12-07-2014, 02:08 AM
^^^^
Meldaproduction too

http://www.meldaproduction.com/plugins/product.php?id=MAutoEqualizer

edkilp
12-07-2014, 02:22 AM
The Mix Buss Compressor video is a lot more informative and useful, imo. Pretty neat.

bluzkat
12-07-2014, 06:05 AM
Voxengo Curve EQ also works for EQ matching...

http://www.voxengo.com/product/curveeq/.


:cool:

pakkuncung
12-07-2014, 08:44 AM
We have ReaFir to capture spectrum profile for references tracks. Using Subtract mode :)

anyway, IMHO exciting music to listen is music which i never heard before song/arrangement-wise and also sound-wise.

'Copycat'-ing commercial mixes will just make my records sounds like everybody else, which is not exciting nor fun to listen.

dobro
12-07-2014, 08:54 AM
Fabfilter ProQ2 has EQ matching as well.

evosilica
12-07-2014, 11:26 AM
I think this technique is hit and miss.
It largely depends on the arrangement of the tracks in question, the key the tracks are in and on how the specific EQ is generating the spectrum.
For example there's a huge difference between peak or rms matching.
Most EQs integrate the spectrum, so the result also depends a lot on which sections you analyse.
It can take just one more or one less bassdrum hit to tell you your track has either too much or too less bass.

Sometimes it works but i don't think it's a reliable method at all.

heda
12-07-2014, 11:51 AM
EQ matching is not always the best solution but, for super refined and more control in EQ matching: har-bal

Tod
12-07-2014, 12:05 PM
I know one could also do that with a Spectrum Analyzer
and make EQ settings manually, compare and tweak, tweak and compare...
more time-consuming.

Yes, and I think ReaEQ and Span work very well for this. :

'Copycat'-ing commercial mixes will just make my records sounds like everybody else, which is not exciting nor fun to listen.

Actually I think a little differently about it, to me it's more of a tool(s) to help get a good balance on your mix. Of course there's a lot more to it than that but then anything that helps in this regard is good. :)

Retro Audio Enthusiast
12-07-2014, 01:14 PM
We have ReaFir to capture spectrum profile for references tracks. Using Subtract mode :)

Hi, what is the procedure for this?
Thanks.

pakkuncung
12-07-2014, 01:39 PM
Hi, what is the procedure for this?
Thanks.

Same procedure with noise reduction. But instead of profiling "noise", profile your Reference Track.


Put ReaFir on Substract mode.
Check Automatically build noise profile...
Play the reference track (create spectrum profile).
When profile created. Un-Check Automatically build noise profile...
With the spectrum profile created. Switch ReaFir to Compressor mode.
Apply the ReaFir the to the target track(s)

Retro Audio Enthusiast
12-07-2014, 01:42 PM
Thank you!

grinder
12-07-2014, 01:47 PM
evosilica has it
Mix to the given tune, too many variables.
No wonder so many modern tracks have no "distinction" about them.

Grinder


https://soundcloud.com/steve-maitland-1/kicking-about

rightonthemark
12-07-2014, 02:01 PM
i liked the video.
gave me another way to look at things.
i can't see myself doing the copycat thing.
but making manual adjustments & check & recheck seems to be a great way to accomplish this.


the chart at the link is similar to this.

http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/images/main_chart.jpg


& i like this chart too.

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachments/so-much-gear-so-little-time/44058d1194162043-note-frequency-chart-you-ss-freq-chart.jpg

karbomusic
12-07-2014, 02:42 PM
So I'm going to ask a stupid question, or rather offer a suggestion. Learn what the frequencies sound like then the chart isn't needed. I do mean start learning what 220 Hz sounds like or 1kHz and so on. An engineer should be able to hear a particular frequency (or set of) and know what that is regardless of instrument or chart. :)

As far as capturing an EQ curve from something else, I've never found any value in that, it's like overlaying a picture of a cat over a dog and pretending it's a cat. You "EQ" with instrumentation and composition, micing, recording and so on to fill the space and with any luck, then smooth the rough edges with EQ if needed. You don't instead, copy paste curves because nothing matches (oboe in one song, screaming guitar in the other). EQ should be something you don't typically "want" to do unless you have to.

Don't get me wrong, I think there is good academic use to studying one of those charts; I'd just get a good mental overview and a few aha moments from the academic side of things then move on.

rvman
12-07-2014, 03:37 PM
I'm studying eq now, trying to get better at hearing the frequencies. I'm a firm believer in how important it is to have that as a skill.

These days I try really hard on just using eq, comps, panning, and vol levels on my mixes. Only after I've done that do I add as little reverb/delay as needed.

karbomusic
12-07-2014, 03:53 PM
I'm a firm believer in how important it is to have that as a skill

TBH I always thought I was good at it but only because I had a very specific training... It's called FEEDBACK in live situations. The shock factor alone makes you remember frequencies at an accelerated rate. :D

When I first started, not so good, I'm diving for the 31 band EQ and grabbing the wrong slider. After awhile, I could just listen to stuff and know 320 needed to be cut for example but I wasn't really born with it, it was learned albiet the hard way.

rightonthemark
12-07-2014, 07:18 PM
charts are just meant to be a tool as one learns.

Fergler
12-07-2014, 09:25 PM
I'm studying eq now, trying to get better at hearing the frequencies. I'm a firm believer in how important it is to have that as a skill.

These days I try really hard on just using eq, comps, panning, and vol levels on my mixes. Only after I've done that do I add as little reverb/delay as needed.

You've just made the best decision in your career/hobby :)

rvman
12-07-2014, 09:39 PM
You've just made the best decision in your career/hobby :)

Well thank you. I absolutely love mixing and have only recently been getting serious about it.

Magicbuss
12-07-2014, 10:33 PM
I think this technique is hit and miss.
It largely depends on the arrangement of the tracks in question, the key the tracks are in and on how the specific EQ is generating the spectrum.
For example there's a huge difference between peak or rms matching.
Most EQs integrate the spectrum, so the result also depends a lot on which sections you analyse.
It can take just one more or one less bassdrum hit to tell you your track has either too much or too less bass.

Sometimes it works but i don't think it's a reliable method at all.

Not 100% reliable but very often useful. And yeah, unless the reference track is VERY similar to your track it can be misleading.

I like to match reference mixes by ear and then try use match eq to see if there is something I missed. often theres a frequency buildup or a deficiency that i missed. I don't apply the match EQ in these cases i go back and EQ busses or instruments to correct the problem.

Retro Audio Enthusiast
12-08-2014, 07:00 AM
The copy EQ method is not of course 100% reliable for entire tracks but can give a ballpark result and also be a great study tool.

Where EQ profiling really works is on isolated tracks. If you have access to solo tracks or stems then you can learn a lot from analysis.

I used EQ profiling on solo vocal tracks of Lennon and McCarney, and isolated guitar, drums and bass tracks. If you take into account instruments used, compression and microphones, it goes a long way to deconstructing how tracks were recorded.

dobro
12-08-2014, 09:34 PM
The copy EQ method is not of course 100% reliable for entire tracks but can give a ballpark result and also be a great study tool.

Where EQ profiling really works is on isolated tracks. If you have access to solo tracks or stems then you can learn a lot from analysis.

I used EQ profiling on solo vocal tracks of Lennon and McCarney, and isolated guitar, drums and bass tracks. If you take into account instruments used, compression and microphones, it goes a long way to deconstructing how tracks were recorded.

How does knowing how tracks were recorded help you? You already know how to record tracks. And where do you get solo vocal tracks for Beatles tunes?

Retro Audio Enthusiast
12-09-2014, 05:17 AM
How does knowing how tracks were recorded help you? You already know how to record tracks.

I'm referring to what mics, instruments, desk, preamp etc was used to record the track. These add significant and unique timbre and eq to their repective tracks that have an overall aggregate effect on the entire track -an effect that is not easily reproduced simply by whole-mix EQ profiling.


And where do you get solo vocal tracks for Beatles tunes?

If you have the hard-panned mixes of classic tracks you can often isolate these (on 'Girl' the vocal is coming out of one stereo channel, for example).
A lot of old 50's - 60's tracks are like this.

If you also have the Beatles Rock Band game, I've heard it is possible to isolate the 4 track / 8 Track recordings.

Magicbuss
12-09-2014, 08:39 AM
How does knowing how tracks were recorded help you? You already know how to record tracks. And where do you get solo vocal tracks for Beatles tunes?

There are solo'd tracks for many songs on Youtube.

There are also multitrack stems available for free online from various artists. Nine inch nails is one.

In the less than legal department you can find all of the .mogg files used for the video games rock band and guitar hero online.

No matter where you find these solo'd tracks they are IMMENSELY educational about the way commercial tracks are mixed. For modern tracks be prepared to be stunned at the amount of compression and (intentional) distortion.