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StudioDave
01-14-2008, 06:17 AM
Hey Benno, nice to see you here !

How's everything going at LS ? Looks like Alex is keeping you guys busy. :)

sbenno
01-14-2008, 06:46 AM
Aaah, sorry Benno, my poor description. I meant a script that automatically loaded the right template with the saved port layout. So for example Script one would open Qjackctl, with the right port template, Ls would open and load the right template, and Reaper would do the same.

Script 2, etc...
Alex.

You can automate LS setup by sending LSCP commands using a script.

Basically both qsampler and jsampler do save .lscp files which are nothing more than a sequence of LSCP commands.

You can use a unix tool called netcat which basically takes a text file and send its over the network to the given IP address and port.
Since linuxsampler by default listens on TCP port 8888 you can use the following command to automatically to load a setup into linuxsampler.

nc localhost 8888 <myfile.lscp
If LS runs on a different machine just replace localhost with an IP address
for example:
nc 192.168.0.1 8888 <myfile.lscp

Hi StudioDave :)
LS is doing fine, conquering every operating system and platform and which has a CPU and RAM :)
Our priorities are now VST and the new modular engine which will eliminate any kind of boredom for developers and hopefully for users soon too :)

Yes Alex is amazing, he is like a train, he is very motivated and his enthusiasm infects everyone which is a big boon for the community.

S-N-S
01-14-2008, 06:57 AM
im gonna check this sampler your talking about,when i get dyne:bolic installed.

btw anyone who uses hardware(midicontrollers,compressors,and so on)with linux??

i dont think i can use my midi-interface(emagic amt8)with linux(dyne:bolic)if someone knows please tell me if its possible

sbenno
01-14-2008, 07:16 AM
S-N-S:

the EMagic AMT8 is supported by ALSA :)
http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/showdev.php?id=3170

Alex Stone
01-14-2008, 12:42 PM
Linuxsampler update..

After redoing the math, (doh) i've recompiled LS down to a more modest 600 voices. And i hope my folly serves as a wise lesson to others who may be considering an overenthusiastic compile, driven by the taste of real audio freedom :)

Don't toast your gear fellas, please.

I've also had a rethink through the software i'm using, and i'll do a more open report on some other complimentary programmes (imho), that would benefit a Reaper/Linuxsampler/Linux user, fairly soon. 1 so far springs immediately to mind, and that's a revisit of the notation editor Mscore, and see how far Werner Schweer the developer, has progressed with it. I'm thinking about how to integrate this programme with Reaper, and of how much benefit we'd get using Mscore as both a full standalone notation editor, and a Reaper external editor for midi. (There are other notation editors progressing rapidly as well, including Canorus, and Nted, so they'll get a visit too., just to see where they're at.)

And let's not forget the all important utility programmes, like Jackdmp, Wineasio, and Wine. None of this would be possible without them. I've just compiled the latest version of Wine, and will give an update on what works and doesn't for me, and i'll ask Stephane of Jackdmp, if he could kindly give us an update on where JD is going, and what plans he might have for future development. Drumfix, of wineasio fame, very kindly gave us a recent upgrade, and a new version featuring Jackbridge. (Thanks!) Have any of you used it, and how does it perform? I, and maybe others, would be interested to know.

Stay tuned chaps, more to come.

Alex.

p.s I have a quick flag wave for Rui Nuno Capela, the guy who gave us the excellent GUIs to Jackd, LS, and who knows how many other interfaces that we're using these days, in a brave and talented effort to keep us poor picture lovers happy. Thanks Rui, it's appreciated!

Alex Stone
01-14-2008, 12:51 PM
You can automate LS setup by sending LSCP commands using a script.

Basically both qsampler and jsampler do save .lscp files which are nothing more than a sequence of LSCP commands.

You can use a unix tool called netcat which basically takes a text file and send its over the network to the given IP address and port.
Since linuxsampler by default listens on TCP port 8888 you can use the following command to automatically to load a setup into linuxsampler.

nc localhost 8888 <myfile.lscp
If LS runs on a different machine just replace localhost with an IP address
for example:
nc 192.168.0.1 8888 <myfile.lscp



Thanks Benno.

I'd write more, but i'm off to try this out!

:)


Alex.

S-N-S
01-14-2008, 02:18 PM
S-N-S:

the EMagic AMT8 is supported by ALSA :)
http://www.qbik.ch/usb/devices/showdev.php?id=3170

wooow thank you very much sbenno,this is really good news
anyone knows where i can find a list of supported soundcards,im using the usb-card that came with cubase system 4 now

Alex Stone
01-15-2008, 02:12 AM
wooow thank you very much sbenno,this is really good news
anyone knows where i can find a list of supported soundcards,im using the usb-card that came with cubase system 4 now

Michael, there's a list of cards on the Alsa site.

http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Main

Alex.

Shan
01-15-2008, 04:02 AM
Great thread, keep it going. :D

Shan

Alex Stone
01-15-2008, 07:17 AM
Script time!

In the urge to automate as much of the process as possible, i've begun compiling scripts. (Bit of linux lingo there)

So far so good.


Here's the start of a generic auto script, before the variations for templates begin:

qjackctl &
sleep 7
qsampler &



Easy so far. (And a big thanks to StudioDave for getting me started here.)

Now here's the first template so far:

qjackctl &
sleep 7
qsampler &
netcat localhost 8888 </home/alex/Qsamp/soloandpiano.lscp &


And this works. (and thanks to Benno for helping with this bit of the jigsaw puzzle)


The challenge with Reaper is next, and here's the question i have failed (google) to find the answer for so far.

Reaper is in my .wine folder. (~/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/REAPER/reaper.exe)

What's the syntax in the script, to start Reaper?

I've tried a few things, including:

wine reaper &

</home/alex/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/REAPER/reaper.exe

And some variations of these.
None seem to work so far, and when i include this line or variations after the line including netcat, the template script fails to load.

Next question.

If the script fails (because i'm not clever enough yet), how do i kill all processes so i can start again? At the moment LS and sometimes JACK don't release when shutdown straight away, and i get lscp errors, and midi instrument failed to load message, when i run the script again, soon after the first.

Do i need a 'kill' script for this?

Next Question.

When building scripts, do spaces in file names make a difference in Linux? In the above example Program Files is two seperate words with a space. Does this affect the execution of the script?

Next Question.

Reaper is an exe.
Does Linux auto start this type of file in a script? Or as wine has to start first, does wine handle this instead?

As an adjunct to this, in my script, do i actually have to put wine on a separate line, or will Reaper kick wine into life, when it starts up?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Alex.

p.s. The journey continues............... :)

daverich
01-15-2008, 07:19 AM
Script time!

In the urge to automate as much of the process as possible, i've begun compiling scripts. (Bit of linux lingo there)

So far so good.


Here's the start of a generic auto script, before the variations for templates begin:

qjackctl &
sleep 7
qsampler &



Easy so far.

Now here's the first template so far:

qjackctl &
sleep 7
qsampler &
netcat localhost 8888 </home/alex/Qsamp/soloandpiano.lscp &


And this works.


The challenge with Reaper is next, and here's the question i have failed (google) to find the answer for so far.

Reaper is in my .wine folder. (~/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/REAPER/reaper.exe)

What's the syntax in the script, to start Reaper?

I've tried a few things, including:

wine reaper &

</home/alex/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/REAPER/reaper.exe

And some variations of these.
None seem to work so far, and when i include this line or variations after the line including netcat, the template script fails to load.

Next question.

If the script fails (because i'm not clever enough yet), how do i kill all processes so i can start again? At the moment LS and sometimes JACK don't release when shutdown straight away, and i get lscp errors, and midi instrument failed to load message, when i run the script again, soon after the first.

Do i need a 'kill' script for this?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Alex.

p.s. The journey continues............... :)

the geek radar just went ping

;)

Kind regards

Dave Rich

Alex Stone
01-15-2008, 07:23 AM
the geek radar just went ping

;)

Kind regards

Dave Rich

Haha, that's an oxymoron if i ever saw one.

Me?

Geek?

:)

sbenno
01-15-2008, 07:49 AM
Alex,

between starting qsampler (which automatically starts LS) and issuing the nc command insert a small sleep (2-3secs should be enough) because in some cases if LS is not started when nc tries to send the LSCP commands nc could exit with a connection refused error.

reaper is a windows .exe and cannot be started directly by the shell.
You need to use the command
wine "/home/alex/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/REAPER/reaper.exe"

if your directories of files contain spaces make sure to quote them otherwise the shell will give you an error as it tried to interpret it as they were multiple arguments.

For example
cat "My Songs.txt"
prints the contents of the file "My Songs.txt" on the screen
cat My Songs.txt
tried to print 2 files, "My" and "Songs.txt"
and this is the reason why you need to quote files that contain spaces.
Alternatively you can use backslash+space too.
cat My\ Songs.txt
works as well, no quotes needed. but for simplicity use quotes otherwise you need to add a backspace in front of each space and there are other chars that need to be escaped with a backspace too and you have to remember that list.

To shut down processes under linux you can use
kill processid (basically the number of the process you see when using top,ps or other tools)
Or alternatively
killall processname

killall is easier as it does not require to know the numeric processid.

For example you can use
killall linuxsampler
to force a shutdown of LS
keep in mind that killall kills all instances of a given process name so for example if you have 2 copies of gimp open, killall gimp will kill both.
normally killall sends the SIGTERM (signal 15) to the application that needs to be killed.
SIGTERM is something like politely saying "hey, the user told you should exit right now so please do it".
Normally this signal is honoured by applications and they will then call the clean up routines and exit gracefully.
But in some cases this does not work and this can have several reasons:
1) the application decides to ignore this signal (let's say a server application that must run at any cost)
2) the application froze due to a programming bug or other unforeseen events and do not respond to termination signals anymore.

linux (and unix in general) provides the SIGKILL signal.
SIGKILL (signal 9) simply tells the the application I am going to kill you without asking you first.
This always works and linux cleans up the resources allocated by application, leaving no traces in memory but it should be avoided because if the application was writing something to disk, let's say updated a DB or was writing something to a file the result could become inconsistent.
With SIGTERM the application would first finish to write to the DB or file and then exit gracefully.
SIGKILL just kills the app immediately.

So the advice is, whenever possible always use SIGTERM and using SIGTERM only when there is no alternative and the app does not respond to SIGTERM anymore.

the kill and killall syntax is the following
kill -signalnumber processid
killall -signalnumber processname

if you omit signalnumber the default is 15 (SIGTERM).
so doing
killall gimp
is the same as
killall -15 gimp

to kill gimp using SIGKILL
use
killall -9 gimp
(not recommended)

cheers,
Benno

Alex Stone
01-15-2008, 08:23 AM
Alex,

between starting qsampler (which automatically starts LS) and issuing the nc command insert a small sleep (2-3secs should be enough) because in some cases if LS is not started when nc tries to send the LSCP commands nc could exit with a connection refused error.

reaper is a windows .exe and cannot be started directly by the shell.
You need to use the command
wine "/home/alex/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/REAPER/reaper.exe"

if your directories of files contain spaces make sure to quote them otherwise the shell will give you an error as it tried to interpret it as they were multiple arguments.

For example
cat "My Songs.txt"
prints the contents of the file "My Songs.txt" on the screen
cat My Songs.txt
tried to print 2 files, "My" and "Songs.txt"
and this is the reason why you need to quote files that contain spaces.
Alternatively you can use backslash+space too.
cat My\ Songs.txt
works as well, no quotes needed. but for simplicity use quotes otherwise you need to add a backspace in front of each space and there are other chars that need to be escaped with a backspace too and you have to remember that list.

To shut down processes under linux you can use
kill processid (basically the number of the process you see when using top,ps or other tools)
Or alternatively
killall processname

killall is easier as it does not require to know the numeric processid.

For example you can use
killall linuxsampler
to force a shutdown of LS
keep in mind that killall kills all instances of a given process name so for example if you have 2 copies of gimp open, killall gimp will kill both.
normally killall sends the SIGTERM (signal 15) to the application that needs to be killed.
SIGTERM is something like politely saying "hey, the user told you should exit right now so please do it".
Normally this signal is honoured by applications and they will then call the clean up routines and exit gracefully.
But in some cases this does not work and this can have several reasons:
1) the application decides to ignore this signal (let's say a server application that must run at any cost)
2) the application froze due to a programming bug or other unforeseen events and do not respond to termination signals anymore.

linux (and unix in general) provides the SIGKILL signal.
SIGKILL (signal 9) simply tells the the application I am going to kill you without asking you first.
This always works and linux cleans up the resources allocated by application, leaving no traces in memory but it should be avoided because if the application was writing something to disk, let's say updated a DB or was writing something to a file the result could become inconsistent.
With SIGTERM the application would first finish to write to the DB or file and then exit gracefully.
SIGKILL just kills the app immediately.

So the advice is, whenever possible always use SIGTERM and using SIGTERM only when there is no alternative and the app does not respond to SIGTERM anymore.

the kill and killall syntax is the following
kill -signalnumber processid
killall -signalnumber processname

if you omit signalnumber the default is 15 (SIGTERM).
so doing
killall gimp
is the same as
killall -15 gimp

to kill gimp using SIGKILL
use
killall -9 gimp
(not recommended)

cheers,
Benno

Benno, thank you, this is much appreciated.


And with help from both you and StudioDave, this is the first successful script:

qjackctl &
sleep 7
qsampler &
sleep 8
netcat localhost 8888 </home/alex/Qsamp/soloandpiano.lscp &
sleep 3
wine "/home/alex/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/REAPER/reaper.exe"
sleep 10
</home/alex/Reaptemplates/soloandpiano1.rpp

It runs full auto from the start to the finish, including loading the Reaper template.

Now the work begins on the next templates, including 3 much bigger templates for Full Orchestra. I will use the & to allow them to load, and i gather Reaper won't start until the last line of these scripts is finished. (I'm tempted to include a little sleep here, lol.)

You'll notice i've put a 'sleep 3' after loading the lscp script. I did this so i could observe the process, so to speak, slowing it down a little. I may remove this, and try jumping straight from the lscp into Reaper, although i suppose it wouldn't bother the process if it stayed.

Now i'm off to see if i can do this putting each component into a designated workspace, within the scripting process.
(I now have 7 workspaces. Admin, Jack and ports, Sampler, DAW, Mixer, Plugins, Accessories. In the default Gnome desktop that comes with UBS, i can't spread Reaper across 3 workspaces but, and i have experimented with this, in E-Gnome, Enlightenment, and E-KDE, this does work, so i might switch window managers, and go from there.)

Many many thanks for the help!

Alex.

The journey continues, no longer alone, but with a colourful caravan of assorted characters, each with his own story to tell......

funkster1
01-15-2008, 09:05 AM
Yeah baby, great stuff Alex, Benno, Dave et all.

@Benno:
Very nice move to joining the reaper forum, most appreciated. Also your way of explaining things is so that even I can understand (most of it anyway).

@Alex:
I have barely the time to even come here and have a look at the threads that interest me, so the things I asked you in private still have to wait. I still have a lot of stuff to sort, work to be done etc. So the next days I won't be able at all to reinstall my Linux box, even less to take the time learning how to recompile, optimize my box etc.

Keep it going guys. I'll still be lurking around from time to time the next days.

Cheers
Raphael ;)

rotylee
01-15-2008, 09:36 AM
have not tested just came across this on distrowatch.

https://forum.startcom.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1415

We are glad to announce a first release candidate of version ML-5.0.7 of the StartCom MultiMedia Edition codenamed "Kessem". This test release introduces a new low-latency 2.6.23 kernel in addition to many, many updated packages and version upgrades.

The desktop is polished and boosts a huge Sound and Video section.

Most audio and video manipulation software has been updated to current versions and others were added. For example this release features Ardour 2, Qsampler (Linux Sampler), Qsynth, VST plug-in support, a new selection of sound fonts and a new low-latency kernel modified with realtime preemption patches to specially support audio production studios. Of course all the other well known programs like VLC, Rosegarden, Muse and the vast selection of midi, synthesizers are still here as well.

S-N-S
01-15-2008, 12:23 PM
hi
can someone help me with what i need to type,if i wanna change the display mode dynebolic boots up in?

the default is 800x600 i would like to try and boot it up in 1024x(cant remember)

what do i need to type??

(im running it as a live cd)(havent placed it on a harddrive yet)


and does wineasio come with wine??or do i need to download that someplace else??

also its only my windows vista that has access to the internet,can i dl (what i need to dl)to a folder in windows,and then copy it to a usb-stick so i can install in linux??

and i read somewhere that modules i can install be drag n drop them to dyne/modules is that correct??

funkster1
01-15-2008, 04:33 PM
hi
can someone help me with what i need to type,if i wanna change the display mode dynebolic boots up in?

the default is 800x600 i would like to try and boot it up in 1024x(cant remember)

what do i need to type??

(im running it as a live cd)(havent placed it on a harddrive yet)


and does wineasio come with wine??or do i need to download that someplace else??

also its only my windows vista that has access to the internet,can i dl (what i need to dl)to a folder in windows,and then copy it to a usb-stick so i can install in linux??

and i read somewhere that modules i can install be drag n drop them to dyne/modules is that correct??

SNS,
for video try 'vga=1024x768 (or 1280x1024) depth=24'.
This should generally do it. If you press F1 (or whatever is indicated for the help), you'll get some examples of how to modify some boot parameters. I remember having tried Dynebolic 3 or 4 times (diff. versions) with the xfce window manager, and only one of the versions worked without a hitch graphics-wise.
The others had a garbled desktop, impossible to use.

Depending on your internet connection/hardware, connection should be quite easy. I have a router configured in DHCP mode, and most any distro I throw at my PC works out of the box, finding and configuring my network adapter all by itself. So I just click on the firefox icon and off I go.

If you still have a modem, I don't know the answer. However it should be relatively easy to figure. Just have a look in the 'Network' column of your window manager's programs menu. I bet you'll find a tool with a quite descriptive name.

Cheers
Raphael ;)

If you have some time, I'll boot into dynebolic to see what I find, as I have a CD at hand.

funkster1
01-15-2008, 07:31 PM
@S-N-S:

In dynebolic, to use diff. display resolutions use the following commands:

linux vga=xxx

replace xxx with one of the following numbers (without the brackets and what's inside them):

16bit:
791 (1024x768) 794 (1200x1024) 798 (1600x1200)

24bit:
792 (1024x768) 795 (1200x1024) 799 (1600x1200)

You can create a 'nest' on a USB stick or any partition of your HDD's (must be FAT32 orext2/3, otherwise it won't be writable), which can be of any size you wish. With this nest you can create your peronal settings, install additional software packages etc, which will all be saved for you so next you boot up Dynebolic it will find the nest and apply your settings.

If you have trouble with the correct resolution, boot in whatever mode is possible for a start, then go to '/etc/X11/' in the file-manager and open the file 'xorg.conf'.

Look for the section 'Screen' which looks something like this:
Section "Screen"
Identifier "Default Screen"
Device "Radeon 7000/VE"
Monitor "F730"
DefaultDepth 24
SubSection "Display"
Modes "2048x1536" "1920x1440" "1856x1392" "1792x1344" "1600x1200" "1280x1024"
EndSubSection
EndSection

Make your prefered resolution the first number in the 'modes' line.
Save file and logoff to restart the xserver. If you can't login in back to the distro,
restart, let Dynebolic find the nest, confirm the use of it when it found it, and all should be well.

Cheers
Raphael ;)

Shan
01-16-2008, 02:17 AM
Script time!

Alex.

p.s. The journey continues............... :)

...and keybindings? AHK style that is. Hint. :D

Shane

S-N-S
01-16-2008, 04:22 AM
thak you very much funkster1,will try this,i really think i will be happy with dynebolic

Alex Stone
01-16-2008, 04:32 AM
...and keybindings? AHK style that is. Hint. :D

Shane

I'm still a way to go before i get there Shan. Trying to learn as much as i can, before taking that one on.

But it's on the list!

:)

Alex.

Alex Stone
01-16-2008, 06:36 AM
I've done a quick trip sideways today, wondering if Linux works on an old PPC G4 laptop.

Only distro i can seem to find is penguinppc.

Does anyone know if there are others that work, are reliable and ongoing in development? (From a personal experience?)

Time to give the lap a makeover, I think.



Alex.

Edit: Just found Ubuntu does ppc as well. Doh.

lowkey
01-16-2008, 07:08 AM
Alex try Linux Mint. Its built on Ubuntu and it has a brilliant community. It even has a PDF manual!
I cant past the url it'll come up on Google.

Edit: Just re read your post. I dont think there is a ppc version. You could ask Clem (the main Honcho) if he could help. He's very approachable and cool.

Alex Stone
01-16-2008, 07:59 AM
A quick heads up in this enjoyable journey.

To those that know, how are the fellas from JAD progressing?

It would be interesting to get an update.

For those that don't know, JAD is another specialist audio production distro that is built on Suse.

Certainly worth a look.


Alex.

Alex Stone
01-16-2008, 08:00 AM
Alex try Linux Mint. Its built on Ubuntu and it has a brilliant community. It even has a PDF manual!
I cant past the url it'll come up on Google.

Edit: Just re read your post. I dont think there is a ppc version. You could ask Clem (the main Honcho) if he could help. He's very approachable and cool.

Thanks Lowkey, i'll keep an eyeout for this, although i may try it at a later stage in a spareboot on the pc.

Alex.

The journey continues......

S-N-S
01-16-2008, 09:48 AM
i tried out linux mint,but i kept getting errors,it couldnt find my computer hardware,so my version of choice still is dynebolic

sji
01-16-2008, 03:40 PM
Hi all,

I've been following this thread (and similar ones) with much interest, being a linux user myself. I have to say that my linux audio experiences have been very positive.

I've used Ubuntu and SuSE in the past, I'm currently on openSuse 10.2 with the jacklab additions. REAPER runs a treat on my system - it installed fine, and I haven't had any major problems with it (until recently when the virtual keyboard has been playing up, but no great loss there- I prefer linux's vkeybd via JACK anyway!)

My only computer hardware is an old laptop which is in need of upgrading - it's physically falling apart! But at least it still works, and there are no huge performance issues.

Aside from running REAPER and a bunch of windows VSTs there's still plenty of options in the linux world too - some great synths, the hydrogen drum machine and others all work nicely alongside REAPER, simply through JACK connections and wineasio.

Hope I haven't rambled on too much, I just wanted to show that linux is definitely worth checking out if you're thinking about it.

Alex Stone
01-17-2008, 02:43 AM
A quick couple of screenshots with Drumfix's Jackbridge Wineasio version. Works here, and well.

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/18634/Screenshot-Connections-JACK-Audio-Connection-Kit.png

And with the channels icon open:


http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/18635/Screenshot-Connections-JACK-Audio-Connection-Kit-1.png


Thanks Drumfix!


Alex.

Wombat
01-17-2008, 04:52 AM
Having got Reaper running well with Jack and wine-asio, I've been looking around for native Linux synths and have come across ZynAddSubFX. It has some excellent sounds but I simply can't figure out how to run it in Reaper and/or connect it up to my controller keyboard. The documentation is incomprehensible to me. It insists, for example, that there's a VST version with a dll file, but that doesn't seem to be the case - there's only a batch file or an exe. So there's nothing to put into the VST folder. Also it repeatedly tells me to "go to Makefile.inc and make some adjustments." Huh? What/where is Makefile.inc and what adjustments do I have to make? I've spent hours on the web trying to find out, but I'm not getting anywhere. Can anyone help? I'm running plain Ubuntu 7.10, by the way. It's the only distro I've found that supports my printer/scanner/copier.
Thanks

sji
01-17-2008, 05:33 AM
Hi Wombat,

Zynaddsubfx is indeed a superb synth. It is available as source code (so you have to compile it yourself) or as a binary (just install and run). You should be able to install it from your ubuntu package manager, or do an apt-get. Try googling for zynaddsubfx ubuntu.

There are also native linux and windows VSTs of zynaddsubfx. To get it running in REAPER you need the windows VST version, and use it like a regular plugin. I don't think the preset banks are bundled with the VST, but you can download them separately - they are the same ones you would use in native linux.

I think the zynaddsubfx windows VST is available from Jucetice or check with KVR Audio. Sorry I can't be more specific right now, I'm at work.

Alex Stone
01-17-2008, 05:39 AM
Having got Reaper running well with Jack and wine-asio, I've been looking around for native Linux synths and have come across ZynAddSubFX. It has some excellent sounds but I simply can't figure out how to run it in Reaper and/or connect it up to my controller keyboard. The documentation is incomprehensible to me. It insists, for example, that there's a VST version with a dll file, but that doesn't seem to be the case - there's only a batch file or an exe. So there's nothing to put into the VST folder. Also it repeatedly tells me to "go to Makefile.inc and make some adjustments." Huh? What/where is Makefile.inc and what adjustments do I have to make? I've spent hours on the web trying to find out, but I'm not getting anywhere. Can anyone help? I'm running plain Ubuntu 7.10, by the way. It's the only distro I've found that supports my printer/scanner/copier.
Thanks

Wombat,

There's the KVR link for the VST. (running in Reaper in Wine.)

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/1187.html

hope it works, and you enjoy yourself.

It's worth noting here, that i've had a great run with the JS plugins in Reaper,( in Wine, In linux, in Moscow, in Russia, In Europe......)

They might not be so pretty, but they work a treat.

(Coopers...Blergh.)


Alex.

:)

404NotFound
01-17-2008, 06:25 AM
The link on the KVR page seems to be down, try this one:

http://www.dontcrack.com/freeware/downloads.php/id/3582/software/ZynAddSubFX/#

EDIT: Sorry, it's only the standalone, not the VST version...

manning1
01-17-2008, 06:27 AM
404NotFound .
oh crikey 404....
just wanna say your avatar gave me a good morning giggle.
spewed up my cornflakes laughing.
v cute mate.

S-N-S
01-17-2008, 07:13 AM
hi
im having a problem when i try doubleclicking on file manager in dynebolic 2,5,2 i get this error message

FAILED TO OPEN FILE MANAGER PREFERENCES
either the xfce filemanager was not build with support for D-BUS or the D-BUS service was not installed properly

anyone who knows how i get this working??

i run it on a fujitsu siemens amilo 1,70ghz with 2gb ram

StudioDave
01-17-2008, 07:30 AM
Zynaddsubfx is indeed a superb synth.

Agree++.

If anyone's interested, here are two short pieces specifically composed for the sound of the electric piano on my TX802, but in these recordings the sound is from a Zyn DX Rhodes patch :

http://linux-sound.org/prelude.ogg

http://www.archive.org/details/PromenadeForEPiano

Much as I like the synth it does have a problem or two. It's not entirely JACK-safe in Linux, and it shows some stability problems even when running with plain-vanilla ALSA. I haven't tested the VST version at all, so I can't say anything about it. Someday I'll try it with the Wine/wineasio/Reaper combo. The project is apparently no longer maintained by the original author (the superbright Paul Nasca), but a separate development group is trying to fix the current major problems. Also, the Zyn codebase is being used as a rich source for developing some synths for the emerging LV2 Linux audio plugin spec. Sometimes ya just gotta love the GPL. :)

S-N-S
01-17-2008, 10:34 AM
hi
i finally got linuxmint 4,0 to work on my laptop as a live cd,and i must say at first glance i like this,it finds the correct screen resolution(which dynebolic dont)and i dont have problems when i close it down(as i have in dynebolic)

i just took a look in the packages manager in linuxmint so heres the question

i dont have a internet connection when i run linux(as my modem dont support linux)so can i install the programs i see in the packages manager without using the internet??(or is there a way i can download them in vista and move them to usb switch and use them in linuxmint??

Wombat
01-17-2008, 03:03 PM
Thanks for all those helpful replies. I'll launch into them when I get home. As a general principle, then, native Linux synths won't run in Reaper - there has to be a Windows version. Is that right?

funkster1
01-17-2008, 07:34 PM
hi
i finally got linuxmint 4,0 to work on my laptop as a live cd,and i must say at first glance i like this,it finds the correct screen resolution(which dynebolic dont)and i dont have problems when i close it down(as i have in dynebolic)

i just took a look in the packages manager in linuxmint so heres the question

i dont have a internet connection when i run linux(as my modem dont support linux)so can i install the programs i see in the packages manager without using the internet??(or is there a way i can download them in vista and move them to usb switch and use them in linuxmint??

Hi S-N-S,
of course you can download packages to a USB stick, burn it to CD or whatever. In each distro you'll have a possibility to install packages from a local place.
Whenever you run into trouble, you should first and foremost go the website of the relevant distro and look for a wiki or forum. Many times you'll find the answers to your questions by just brosing them. No need to register and post.

Another thing I'd look for is the package manager of your distro. Whenever there's something missing, or you get an error popup (like the dbus problem in dynebolic) just open the package manager and type those names into the search field. They don't even have to match 100% with the name of the needed package.

Hope this helps

Raphael ;)

404NotFound
01-18-2008, 12:38 AM
Thanks for all those helpful replies. I'll launch into them when I get home. As a general principle, then, native Linux synths won't run in Reaper - there has to be a Windows version. Is that right?

They won't run IN Reaper, but you can connect them to Reaper if they use Jack. Just activate the synth's midi input as an output in Reaper and connect its Jack outputs to Reaper's Jack inputs.

Alex Stone
01-18-2008, 01:14 AM
A very quick heads up for those of you who may be trying Drumfix's excellent jackbridge version of wineasio.

Jackbridge needs to start first, and a little script does this just fine.

A simple two lines:

jackbridge &
qjackctl &

...in a text editor.



As StudioDave kindly passed on, you can make this executable with:

chmod a+x <filename>

(without the arrows)
I named this file jackstart, so the line to type in a terminal to make this executable is:

chmod a+x jackstart


Stick it on your desktop, and you're good to go.

Alex.

Automated scripts aren't difficult, and if i can do it, then you fellas are in with a great chance. I've just built a test script that starts 7 progs in a row, including loading a big sample set.
Hit the button, choose run, and get the coffee. Easy.... :)

(Ubuntustudio, Gutsy 7.10 build.)

The journey continues....

Alex Stone
01-18-2008, 01:53 AM
In addition to the above post, i've built a full orchestra script.

And it's the load time for qsampler that needs the most careful timing. for a full load, it takes 240 seconds, and i do that with a sleep 250 line in a script. (Give it some space with a few extra seconds)
As a further tip, the sleep command has proved really useful at making sure everything loads properly before the next programme in the sequence starts.

Here's the script:

jackbridge &
qjackctl &
sleep 7
qsampler &
sleep 10
netcat localhost 8888 </home/alex/Qsamp/Full_Orchestra_1.lscp &
sleep 250
wine "/home/alex/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/REAPER/reaper.exe"
sleep 10
</home/alex/Reaptemplates/FullOrchestra1.rpp &


Fairly straightforward, and works well.

From start to finish, it takes about 5 mins to load.

time to get the coffee and toast.

Alex.

S-N-S
01-18-2008, 05:13 AM
whats the latest version of wine and wineasio??and can i download it in vista,and move it to my linux partition as my modem doesent support linux??

lowkey
01-18-2008, 07:11 AM
Do you have a usb stick?

S-N-S
01-18-2008, 08:23 AM
Do you have a usb stick?

yes i got a 512mb usb memory stick

lowkey
01-18-2008, 10:07 AM
I cant past the link's (Im on my PS3) but if you do a search on this site for w00t's (Cheers Dude :D) Reaper/Wine walk through. I posted the link on the "Linux Mint" thread at KVR.

scum
01-19-2008, 03:13 AM
ubuntu studio, jad, kubuntu, mint, pain in the arse..i am writing for the 5th time - give PCLINUXOS a try.
rock solid working easy linux distribution with all audio packages you need available.
Save your time and nerves like me.

daverich
01-19-2008, 03:16 AM
ubuntu studio, jad, kubuntu, mint, pain in the arse..i am writing for the 5th time - give PCLINUXOS a try.
rock solid working easy linux distribution with all audio packages you need available.
Save your time and nerves like me.


Conversely I tried it and it wouldn't even get through the install process....


Kind regards

Dave Rich

Alex Stone
01-19-2008, 03:21 AM
ubuntu studio, jad, kubuntu, mint, pain in the arse..i am writing for the 5th time - give PCLINUXOS a try.
rock solid working easy linux distribution with all audio packages you need available.
Save your time and nerves like me.

I'll add it to the notes , thanks for the tip.

Incidentally, i thought i'd do a quick search for your previous reminders, and put 'Scum' in the search box.




It came up with a list of politicians.

:)


Alex.

The journey continues.....

scum
01-19-2008, 03:23 AM
ok, excuses, work hard!

Alex Stone
01-19-2008, 03:30 AM
ok, excuses, work hard!


Hahaha, good answer, Scum.
I hope things are well with you in beautiful Bulgaria. Magnificent coastline there, to rival many others in splendour, and charm.

Regards,

Alex.

Alex Stone
01-19-2008, 05:26 AM
A quick question for Drumfix, and maybe others that know.

Are we likely to see a 64bit version of Wine, in the near future?
I'm not sure i'm up to compiling one, as frankly, i wouldn't know where to start.

I've shed nearly all the vst's off my system, and that's pretty well the last of the 32bit stuff, as i've replaced nearly all of it with JS, and Cockos plugs.

Alex.

Alex Stone
01-19-2008, 05:35 AM
A quick heads up, if you have startup issues with the Jackbridge version of Wineasio-x.

When my computer starts up, it automatically instigates the network server. Unless i turn this off first, or disconnect, then jackbridge will not load, claiming the audio HW device is in use already. I simply disconnect, start jackbridge, then reconnect to the internet no problems.

Easy.


Alex.

StudioDave
01-19-2008, 06:13 AM
A quick question for Drumfix, and maybe others that know.

Are we likely to see a 64bit version of Wine, in the near future?
I'm not sure i'm up to compiling one, as frankly, i wouldn't know where to start.

Alex, if you have the Wine sources, go to that directory and enter:

./configure --help

That will reveal this option:

--enable-win64 build a Win64 emulator on AMD64 (won't run Win32 binaries)

So you'd start with :

./configure --enable-win64

Remember, this build will not run 32-bit apps at all.

I'm having a different problem. I want to build a 32-bit Wine for my 64-bit system, but I keep failing with errors regarding some in-line assembly code. I've tried various fixes, got no joy, and have reverted to an older package (0.9.34) from a Debian multimedia apps repo. Alas, I'm still having trouble building wineasio-x. I shall persevere.

Speaking of perseverance: I recently succeeded in building and running IRCAM's Open Music 5.2.1 on my wonderful JAD box (with its new fanless video card!). The process was crabbed enough to warrant writing an article about it. :)

S-N-S
01-19-2008, 07:28 AM
hi
as my modem isent supporting linux(its a usb modem)i was recommended getting the ubuntu repo dvd

i have started downloading it (in vista)from this link

ftp://kambing.ui.edu/pub/ubuntu-repository/gutsy


has anyone tried this??

when its done i then will need to burn the .iso to dvd

daverich
01-19-2008, 07:33 AM
hi
as my modem isent supporting linux(its a usb modem)i was recommended getting the ubuntu repo dvd

i have started downloading it (in vista)from this link

ftp://kambing.ui.edu/pub/ubuntu-repository/gutsy


has anyone tried this??

when its done i then will need to burn the .iso to dvd

I had a usb ADSL modem working fine in ubuntu but it did take a little code (which I copied/pasted from somewhere) - I wouldn't give up on it.

Search the forums..

Kind Regards

Dave Rich

Alex Stone
01-19-2008, 07:40 AM
Alex, if you have the Wine sources, go to that directory and enter:

./configure --help

That will reveal this option:

--enable-win64 build a Win64 emulator on AMD64 (won't run Win32 binaries)

So you'd start with :

./configure --enable-win64

Remember, this build will not run 32-bit apps at all.

I'm having a different problem. I want to build a 32-bit Wine for my 64-bit system, but I keep failing with errors regarding some in-line assembly code. I've tried various fixes, got no joy, and have reverted to an older package (0.9.34) from a Debian multimedia apps repo. Alas, I'm still having trouble building wineasio-x. I shall persevere.

Speaking of perseverance: I recently succeeded in building and running IRCAM's Open Music 5.2.1 on my wonderful JAD box (with its new fanless video card!). The process was crabbed enough to warrant writing an article about it. :)

Excellent. Thanks Dave, i'll try this a bit later on.

Sorry to hear you're having probs with wineasio-x. It installed really easily here, so maybe a bit of beginner's luck.

Either that, or changing my socks left for right did the trick!

I looked at open music, but the install looked really convoluted, so i bailed out at this stage in my linux knowledge development.

:)

Alex.

w00t
01-19-2008, 07:56 AM
any good links to LinuxSampler libraries that are freely available? Was hoping to give LinuxSampler a real look today, If I find some I'll post here as well


w00t

sbenno
01-19-2008, 08:01 AM
Keep in mind that Wine cannot yet fully run win64 64bit binaries.
http://wiki.winehq.org/Wine64

I hope wine64 will soon be completed as it will allow to use Reaper and 64bit VSTs using the excellent memory managament of Linux in 64bit. I think that compared to Vista it will provide a big boost in terms of performance, stability and latency.

We are working on LinuxSampler VST and we will release both a 32bit and a 64bit version as LinuxSampler itself already is fully 64bit capable.

BTW is Reaper already a fully fledged 64bit application ?
For example if you run it on Vista64, can you load a 64bit VST (for example the new VSL VST player) and access all the available memory ?

Can anyone confirm this ?

Woot:
some free samples in GIG format:
http://worrasplace.com:
http://www.alchemystudio.it/FreeSamples/FreePiano.zip

but IMHO none of those samples is particularly good as they are too small. But give them a try! So the alternatives are to resort to commercial samples, or convert your samples into .GIG or build your own.

cheers,
Benno

Alex Stone
01-19-2008, 08:02 AM
any good links to LinuxSampler libraries that are freely available? Was hoping to give LinuxSampler a real look today, If I find some I'll post here as well


w00t

http://worrasplace.com/?

Woot, this guy's fairly well known for building his own small gig files.

Here's another:

http://www.boldersounds.com/

Alex.

StudioDave
01-19-2008, 09:54 AM
Keep in mind that Wine cannot yet fully run win64 64bit binaries.
http://wiki.winehq.org/Wine64

Okay, I tried building Wine 0.9.53 with --enable-win64. I had to comment out a number of #error messages that halted the compiler, but eventually my effort failed at dll/rpcrt4/cstub.c with an error about a fill_table function. It's beyond my ability and ambition to repair, so for me at least there's still no true 64-bit Wine.

Sorry, Alex, I tried. :(

I agree with Benno, it would be nice if 64-bit Wine would get real.

Alex Stone
01-19-2008, 03:46 PM
Okay, I tried building Wine 0.9.53 with --enable-win64. I had to comment out a number of #error messages that halted the compiler, but eventually my effort failed at dll/rpcrt4/cstub.c with an error about a fill_table function. It's beyond my ability and ambition to repair, so for me at least there's still no true 64-bit Wine.

Sorry, Alex, I tried. :(

I agree with Benno, it would be nice if 64-bit Wine would get real.

Dave, a big thanks for trying, and if you're struggling with it, then i'd be lost. Good to know it's not ready yet, so the energies can go in a more fruitful direction.

As a complete aside, i tried the latest build of Musescore, and it's bigger brother today. Werner has done a lot of work on both.
All credit to him. The muse family is really starting to mature.

Alex.

StudioDave
01-20-2008, 08:32 AM
Just a quick OT message to let Reaper Linuxen know that Renoise will soon be available in a native Linux version. I'm testing a pre-release now, it seems very cool so far. And yes, it supports JACK and the LADSPA plugins (and also native Linux VSTs).

So maybe just maybe I *will* live to see some of the major manufacturers produce native Linux versions of their applications.

404NotFound
01-20-2008, 09:01 AM
Sorry for bothering you, but I ran into serious performace issues:

My setup:
- Laptop: HP nx7400 w/ Intel Core Solo 1,66 GHz, 1GB RAM
- Interface: RME Mutiface I w/ cardbus card
- System: Ubuntu 7.10 w/ Kernel 2.6.22-14-rt, Desktop: XFCE
- ALSA 1.0.14
- Jack 0.103.0
- the usual tweaks (limits.conf, rt-clock)

I used to have latency set to the max (4096 samples) for extreme stability - no probem with recording and playback. I tested lower buffer values and ran into problems: At 512 samples and lower I get xruns from time to time even without running any app. CPU usage in qjackctl is around 1%, top lists jackd with 1.7% CPU. This is quite unusual because i had no such probems on an older machine with M-Audio soundcards.

This stderr message of Reaper might point to the problem:

JACK tmpdir identified as [/mnt/ramfs]
cannot lock down memory for RT thread (Cannot allocate memory)

Any ideas of what might be going wrong? I appreciate every kind of help. Thanks in advance!

StudioDave
01-20-2008, 10:49 AM
This stderr message of Reaper might point to the problem:

JACK tmpdir identified as [/mnt/ramfs]
cannot lock down memory for RT thread (Cannot allocate memory)

Any ideas of what might be going wrong? I appreciate every kind of help. Thanks in advance!

404,

Google for "cannot lock down memory for RT thread", you may find the answer in one of the threads referenced there.

marce
01-20-2008, 11:08 AM
An interesting news is on the Garritan website. They have developed an advanced sample player that will be available for linux too, called ARIA. The interesting is that this Sample engine will use SFZ as standard format, and read soundfonts too.

StudioDave
01-20-2008, 11:21 AM
An interesting news is on the Garritan website. They have developed an advanced sample player that will be available for linux too, called ARIA. The interesting is that this Sample engine will use SFZ as standard format, and read soundfonts too.

Thanks for that tip, marce.

More good news. :)

404NotFound
01-20-2008, 12:10 PM
404,

Google for "cannot lock down memory for RT thread", you may find the answer in one of the threads referenced there.

Thanks, but unfortunately the answers only said
a) install a kernel with realtime patch - already running on my box
b) limit the grapics adapter's memory and/or disable DRI - didn't help
c) - [means: post simply ignored]

I'll be checking some live distros while waiting for answers on several other message boards, maybe Ubuntu is not exactly the best choice for my laptop...

daverich
01-20-2008, 12:10 PM
An interesting news is on the Garritan website. They have developed an advanced sample player that will be available for linux too, called ARIA. The interesting is that this Sample engine will use SFZ as standard format, and read soundfonts too.

cool.

There's alot of benefit for developers to focus on linux more, and I predict that the uptake of linux will be a lot faster than many would expect.

Kind regards

Dave Rich

Alex Stone
01-20-2008, 06:27 PM
Thanks, but unfortunately the answers only said
a) install a kernel with realtime patch - already running on my box
b) limit the grapics adapter's memory and/or disable DRI - didn't help
c) - [means: post simply ignored]

I'll be checking some live distros while waiting for answers on several other message boards, maybe Ubuntu is not exactly the best choice for my laptop...

I'm not smart enough 404, with linux, to contribute much here, but i do remember in one of the read me's for jackdmp, there was line to put in a terminal concerning the definition of Jack/tmp.

I'll see if i can find it, among the debris and destruction of multiple newbie compiling.

Alex.

Alex Stone
01-20-2008, 06:28 PM
Just a quick OT message to let Reaper Linuxen know that Renoise will soon be available in a native Linux version. I'm testing a pre-release now, it seems very cool so far. And yes, it supports JACK and the LADSPA plugins (and also native Linux VSTs).

So maybe just maybe I *will* live to see some of the major manufacturers produce native Linux versions of their applications.

I'm younger than you, so there's even more hope for me.

Just trying to cheer you up!

:)

Alex.

404NotFound
01-20-2008, 07:33 PM
Thanks, Alex. I've already tried Jackdmp with the very same poor performance. It seems to me that I'd have to dig quite deep into the system this time, but I don't have any motivation to fix it.

---

I've downloaded the 64studio (http://www.64studio.com) 2.0 live cd and tested it for about two hours, here's what I discovered:
- Jack runs flawlessly out of the box. I could start it with 64 samples - no xruns :)
- Wineasio + Reaper took 5 minutes - had to activate the testing repository and install wine + wineasio - hell yeah, it's even in the repos!
- Reaper runs fine, I could play Making Me Nervous at 128 samples without any glitches
- My Dualhead config took me 15 minutes - had to include the Debian testing repo, update Xorg to the latest version, add a line to xorg.conf and run xrandr.

If you're looking for an alternative to Ubuntu you should give it a try!

lowkey
01-20-2008, 08:00 PM
Just a quick OT message to let Reaper Linuxen know that Renoise will soon be available in a native Linux version. I'm testing a pre-release now, it seems very cool so far. And yes, it supports JACK and the LADSPA plugins (and also native Linux VSTs).

So maybe just maybe I *will* live to see some of the major manufacturers produce native Linux versions of their applications.

Cant wait to try this. I realised lately I spend alot of time zoomed in to edit no matter which DAW I use. ReNoise will make a good editor for LinuxSampler and Reaper. Both Reaper and ReNoise are very keyboard focused so I'm hoping my work flow will benefit once Ive learned them.

malcolmj
01-20-2008, 10:56 PM
Just a quick OT message to let Reaper Linuxen know that Renoise will soon be available in a native Linux version. I'm testing a pre-release now, it seems very cool so far. And yes, it supports JACK and the LADSPA plugins (and also native Linux VSTs).

Works like a charm on Ubuntu 7.10. It's also an amazingly easy install - just download the .tar, extract, then double-click on the program and it's up and running. :)

Cheers,

Malcolm.

StudioDave
01-21-2008, 04:38 AM
I've downloaded the 64studio (http://www.64studio.com) 2.0 live cd and tested it for about two hours, here's what I discovered:
[snip]
If you're looking for an alternative to Ubuntu you should give it a try!

As you probably know, I run two systems here at Studio Dave, a 32-bit box with the JAD 1.0 distro and a 64-bit machine running 64 Studio. I love both systems.

64 Studio is as solid a Linux distro as I've ever used. Highly recommended.

StudioDave
01-21-2008, 04:42 AM
I predict that the uptake of linux will be a lot faster than many would expect.

Some of us have been waiting a long time already. ;)

I say that somewhat facetiously. I believe it was the Linux audio software stack that needed greater maturity before serious Win/Mac music people would consider it.

JACK has certainly changed the playing field, ne c'est pas ?

afecelis
01-21-2008, 08:20 PM
Hi Guys,
I haven't posted a lot but I find this thread to be very interesting. I've been using reaper on windows for the last 6 months and I'm very admired by its evolution. Now I'm dual-booting with Xubuntu64 and tonight I gave it a try to run it via wine and it ran great!
http://files.wildspad.com/afecelis/reaper/reaper_linux.jpg
Now, I haven't gotten into the fine testing some of you are already doing, but this motivates me to experiment some more.
I just hope there were linux drivers for my m-audio fasttrack USB (which workd great in windows with reaper), and I also hope a native Linux build may see the light some day! :D

regards,
Alvaro
PS. More Linux64 testing on its way.

Wombat
01-21-2008, 11:16 PM
As you probably know, I run two systems here at Studio Dave, a 32-bit box with the JAD 1.0 distro and a 64-bit machine running 64 Studio. I love both systems.

64 Studio is as solid a Linux distro as I've ever used. Highly recommended.

That encourages me to persevere, but I've got problems.
After a bit of a struggle I managed to get the 32 bit version of 64Studio installed but something's amiss. When I fire up Rosegarden or any other program or synth Jack won't start and reports it can't find the server and I can't get any sound unless I use OSS instead of ALSA. The sound under OSS is terrible - growly and distorted. No matter what I do (and I really don't know what I'm doing!)I can't get a peep out of Jack with ALSA. It's as if ALSA isn't there and isn't getting recognized in Jack, even though it appears as an option. I don't really understand the relationship between Jack and ALSA and I don't know what OSS does. I've scoured the relevant websites but I'm stuck. Can anyone help? (again!).
Cheers

So, Alex, you think South Australian beer is crap. Now 'fess up - what brand of bovine post-nasal drip do you drink?:D

StudioDave
01-22-2008, 04:06 AM
When I fire up Rosegarden or any other program or synth Jack won't start and reports it can't find the server and I can't get any sound unless I use OSS instead of ALSA. The sound under OSS is terrible - growly and distorted. No matter what I do (and I really don't know what I'm doing!)I can't get a peep out of Jack with ALSA. It's as if ALSA isn't there and isn't getting recognized in Jack, even though it appears as an option. I don't really understand the relationship between Jack and ALSA and I don't know what OSS does.

Some historical breakdown:

The Linux kernel includes support for an integral sound system. In Ye Olden Tymes that system was OSS, the Open Sound System from 4Front Technologies. Yes, a commercial entity managed the kernel sound services for a while. The company eventually faced a problem between pumping up the kernel services or pumping up their own product (which is a very fine product, btw). The impasse was broken by Jaroslav Kycela's ALSA project. He started with an open plan that attracted many developers, and in the fullness of time ALSA become the de facto dominant system for anyone wanting to do pro-audio work on Linux (thanks in no small part to the willingness of companies like RME to provide driver specs for their professional products). And since many apps had already been developed with it, ALSA also included (and still includes) an OSS compatibility layer.

Okay, so ALSA becomes the accepted kernel sound system, and developers eventually realize that its API (applications programming interface) is considerably more complex than they want to deal with directly. Enter JACK.

JACK lives a level or two above ALSA. It requires a sound system backend, which currently means ALSA, OSS, PortAudio, Core Audio, or Firewire (FreeBOB/FFADO). JACK acts as a higher-level manager for the available sound services, and it is designed to do so in a low-latency environment. There are other sound servers (such as artsd, esd, and PulseAudio) but they are definitely not optimal choices for professional audio work. JACK provides a far more satisfactory way for applications developers to deal with audio on Linux, but to normal users its main appeals are low-latency performance, flexible connectivity, and a 'way cool transport control system. If there's one uniquely defining aspect to Linux audio, it's JACK.

Now to address your problems: It sounds as if the JACK server simply isn't starting. Have you tried starting it from the command line or with QJackCtl ? Also, what sound device do you have ? Be sure that the settings in QJackCtl correctly reflect the capabilities of your hardware.

Let me know how things work. Feel free to write to me directly, or if all else fails, join the Linux Audio Users list (not the Dev list) and ask there. But I think we can sort out your troubles here.

And of course you've already contacted the guys at Rosegarden and 64 Studio, right ? ;) Seriously, make sure you do that. They're not likely to be reading this forum, and they won't know what problems you've faced until you tell them. As Alex has discovered, those devels are just as responsive as Justin & Crew are here, and they're certainly as concerned for the workability of their software.

StudioDave
01-22-2008, 04:15 AM
I'm younger than you, so there's even more hope for me.

Just trying to cheer you up!

Thanks, Alex, but I'll be 57 years old on this coming Sunday. You'll have to try harder. ;)

God willing and the creek don't rise, I may yet see 60.

"If I'd known I'd live this long, I would have taken better care of myself." :)

Alex Stone
01-22-2008, 04:18 AM
I'll certainly second that Dave.
There's some great fellows out there, who are highly skilled and passionate about their work. It's been a privilege to meet them. (Hello Werner, and the team from LS!)

Wombat,

I've never been much of a beer drinker, but i have on occasion enjoyed a bitingly cold stubbie of VB, particularly on a really hot day.
Now i'll go put the flame suit on!

:)

Alex.

p.s. Dave, I've just read the interesting, and enlightening discussion in LAD. Benno gets my vote for his courage, and willingness to try things in a new way!
Never give up, never surrender....:)

Many happy returns in advance for your birthday.

Every day's a bonus!

StudioDave
01-22-2008, 05:06 AM
Dave, I've just read the interesting, and enlightening discussion in LAD. Benno gets my vote for his courage, and willingness to try things in a new way!

There is a rather long and acrimonious debate whether LinuxSampler is in fact FSF-certified free software. Some part of its license included a clause that applies to commercial use, which seems to me to fly against the mighty wind of the GPL. Benno and Christian have explained themselves well, and I'm willing to accept the clause. Others (including some very vocal others) are not so inclined.

Sometimes I see a poor attitude on LAD, especially towards anything NIH ("not invented here"), and a willingness to accept crassness as meaningful dialog. To be sure, not all the correspondents on LAD share that attitude, but it doesn't take many such rebuffs to sour anyone's willingness to enter and participate.

Many happy returns in advance for your birthday. Every day's a bonus!

Absolutely. Thanks for the happies !

:)

Alex Stone
01-22-2008, 06:51 AM
Yes, there's a hint of the 'old timers seniority attitude' about some of the discussion.

not sure i'll visit that often.

:)


Alex.

StudioDave
01-22-2008, 09:28 AM
Yes, there's a hint of the 'old timers seniority attitude' about some of the discussion.

not sure i'll visit that often.

The better group would be the Linux Audio Users mail list. More talk about music issues there.

Alex Stone
01-22-2008, 11:29 AM
Yep, i think you might be right. The other discussion is going downhill fast.

On a brighter note, Werner over at Musescore has been a very busy fellow, and for those who want to try an up and coming linux score editor in Windows, he has built a windows binary. I say this somewhat ironically after seeing the previous discussion mentioned above in a mailing list, but there are forward thinking linux based devs who are quite happy to write for windows too, and as well as the LS team taking on 3 os formats, Werner has very kindly obliged us with his programme in Win.

Progress can be an interesting journey!

http://mscore.sourceforge.net/en/download.php

I'm still working at trying to get this rapidly improving programme to play with Reaper. I'll post reports as progress is made.

Alex

The journey continues, treading the rocky path between a desire for excellence, and ducking the politics......

Wombat
01-22-2008, 04:33 PM
Some historical breakdown:

Now to address your problems: It sounds as if the JACK server simply isn't starting. Have you tried starting it from the command line or with QJackCtl ? Also, what sound device do you have ? Be sure that the settings in QJackCtl correctly reflect the capabilities of your hardware.

Let me know how things work. Feel free to write to me directly, or if all else fails, join the Linux Audio Users list (not the Dev list) and ask there. But I think we can sort out your troubles here.

And of course you've already contacted the guys at Rosegarden and 64 Studio, right ? ;) Seriously, make sure you do that. They're not likely to be reading this forum, and they won't know what problems you've faced until you tell them. As Alex has discovered, those devels are just as responsive as Justin & Crew are here, and they're certainly as concerned for the workability of their software.

Thanks so much for all that, Dave. It all makes sense now. I did contact 64Studio but haven't bothered with the Rosegarden people as I prefer to use Reaper. I'll try your suggestions when I get home and post back. And I hope you have a whing-dinger on Sunday. Many happies. And if you happen to have the option of drinking Alex's favoured VB at your party (stands for Victoria Bitter, coming from the least-loved state in Australia) I suggest you first make a booking with your enterologist for emergency reflux surgery. :D
Cheers

StudioDave
01-23-2008, 03:42 AM
... I hope you have a whing-dinger on Sunday. Many happies. And if you happen to have the option of drinking Alex's favoured VB at your party (stands for Victoria Bitter, coming from the least-loved state in Australia) I suggest you first make a booking with your enterologist for emergency reflux surgery.

Thanks for the happies, Wombat. No fear, guys, I'm not a beer drinker anymore. A few visits to Bordeaux turned me into a lush for Sauternes and Barsac.

And an expensive lush at that. :)

StudioDave
01-23-2008, 04:07 AM
Yep, i think you might be right. The other discussion is going downhill fast... but there are forward thinking linux based devs who are quite happy to write for windows too...

I think I'll have to modify my typical advice. I would not currently recommend the Linux Audio Developers list for normal users. The Users list is usually more tolerant. And only developers with rather thick skins should even consider going to LAD for assistance.

Actually I'm not sure there's any critical need for LAD anymore, now that the information for developing audio apps on Linux is widely available elsewheres. The Renoise authors aren't there, nor are the Garritan people, nor are the Linuxsampler devs, yet they've all been developing excellent Linux audio apps, apparently without the help or advice of the coders on LAD. Come to think of it, I know as many Linux audio devs who are *not* on LAD as are. I'm not sure that means anything particularly dire, but it does indicate that LAD is not the "one-stop" location for Linux sound & music software devs anymore. It's still very important, and I still have all respect for the programmers there (yes, even DR, Lars, Patrick, and the rest), but I believe its utility has been replaced by dedicated IRC channels (not a bad thing at all, IMO).

sbenno
01-23-2008, 03:17 PM
Hi reaperites,
FYI the LinuxSampler user forum just went live.
Alex Stone and Darren will be moderators.

The address is:
http://bb.linuxsampler.org

Questions and suggestions about using Reaper in conjunction with LinuxSampler (on all platforms) are of course welcome as the "industry expert" in that field will be on the forum :)

LinuxSampler VST is in the works and we will ensure that Reaper will get first citizenship support !

cheers,
Benno

S-N-S
01-23-2008, 03:29 PM
hi all
as im trying to use linux(mint 4,0)as music OS from the begining of next month,and because im a total linux nOOb,i was wondering if there would be a kind soul out there
that would send/link repos of the things i will need to get reaper running in linuxmint 4,0

i ask this because linux wont have access to internet,cause my modem isent supported

so if there was a kind soul out there that could help me out,that would just be fantasic

Alex Stone
01-24-2008, 12:27 AM
hi all
as im trying to use linux(mint 4,0)as music OS from the begining of next month,and because im a total linux nOOb,i was wondering if there would be a kind soul out there
that would send/link repos of the things i will need to get reaper running in linuxmint 4,0

i ask this because linux wont have access to internet,cause my modem isent supported

so if there was a kind soul out there that could help me out,that would just be fantasic

Michael, i'm terribly new at this too, but if i can help i will.


On a wider note to those with more experience, is there any long term damage to removing OSS from the system altogether, aside from the loss of a programme or two?

Alex.

StudioDave
01-24-2008, 03:41 AM
On a wider note to those with more experience, is there any long term damage to removing OSS from the system altogether, aside from the loss of a programme or two?

Well, looked at one way, it's already gone. IIRC the kernel can still be built with OSS support, but the default sound system for Linux is now ALSA, which includes that OSS compatibility layer.

Run this command at the prompt to see if you have the compatibility stuff loaded:

lsmod | grep oss

lsmod lists your loaded modules, the "|" sign pipes that list to the grep utility, which acts as a filter here to reveal only the modules with the text string "oss" in them. If none appear, you don't have the compatibility layer loaded.

Some desktop audio apps still support the OSS devices, so you may lose some media players. However, both Mplayer and xine support JACK these days. Alas, the great Amarok player does not, so you'll need the OSS stuff if you want that one.

Pro-audio apps like Ardour or JAMin won't miss it at all.

gregh
01-24-2008, 03:51 AM
(Coopers...Blergh.)
:)

I'm assuming this is a joke or some sort of 'provocation'

(esp when taken in the context of VB.... good god man have you no shame)

Alex Stone
01-24-2008, 04:04 AM
Well, looked at one way, it's already gone. IIRC the kernel can still be built with OSS support, but the default sound system for Linux is now ALSA, which includes that OSS compatibility layer.

Run this command at the prompt to see if you have the compatibility stuff loaded:

lsmod | grep oss

lsmod lists your loaded modules, the "|" sign pipes that list to the grep utility, which acts as a filter here to reveal only the modules with the text string "oss" in them. If none appear, you don't have the compatibility layer loaded.

Some desktop audio apps still support the OSS devices, so you may lose some media players. However, both Mplayer and xine support JACK these days. Alas, the great Amarok player does not, so you'll need the OSS stuff if you want that one.

Pro-audio apps like Ardour or JAMin won't miss it at all.

Dave, i have stacks of them, lol.
So if i want to remove all the oss stuff (Because i really won't miss them) can i simply use gedit to remove the lines in the modules.conf file?

Everything else i use is Jacked, or alsa'd.

Alex.

Alex Stone
01-24-2008, 04:09 AM
I'm assuming this is a joke or some sort of 'provocation'

(esp when taken in the context of VB.... good god man have you no shame)

Haha, priceless.

I never was a drinker of any worth Greg, so i'm not a good judge of what's good or not. And i lived in the main in NSW and Queensland, so please don't think i'm a victorian. (That WOULD be provocation!)
:)

But i have tasted Coopers, and i think i've recovered enough to be considered human again.
That was over 20 years ago.

Alex!



p.s. I now enjoy a tiny sip of cognac every so often, and the odd glass of a decent red, so things aren't all bad in the land of the croweaters. You do, after all, make a reasonably nice drop of plonk!

:)

S-N-S
01-24-2008, 04:09 AM
Michael, i'm terribly new at this too, but if i can help i will.


On a wider note to those with more experience, is there any long term damage to removing OSS from the system altogether, aside from the loss of a programme or two?

Alex.


thanx i would really appreciate that

gregh
01-24-2008, 04:13 AM
Haha, priceless.

I never was a drinker of any worth Greg, so i'm not a good judge of what's good or not. And i lived in the main in NSW and Queensland, so please don't think i'm a victorian. (That WOULD be provocation!)
:)

But i have tasted Coopers, and i think i've recovered enough to be considered human again.
That was over 20 years ago.

Alex!



p.s. I now enjoy a tiny sip of cognac every so often, and the odd glass of a decent red, so things aren't all bad in the land of the croweaters. You do, after all, make a reasonably nice drop of plonk!

:)

ha ha - good stuff :) - i'm from south australia but lived in queensland the last 20 years. Will move somewhere cooler when the kids finish uni - perhaps tasmania or new zealand or somewhere in europe (if they'll have me!)

lowkey
01-24-2008, 04:22 AM
Hi Sns :)

Do you have a spare dvd or cd? If so set up your computer following w00t's walkthrough. Once you've done that then put your cd/dvd in and look for "aptoncd" in the "all" section of the program menu. This is what it does...

"AptOnCD is useful for people e.g. who don't have Internet all the time or who have serious bandwidth and/or quota limitations but maybe need to install multiple machines but can't afford to waste their quota on downloading the same package again and again.

So instead they'd have their packages on a CD or DVD and can install again and again via this disk (instead of downloading)."

Its saved my ass a few times :) It makes an ISO back up of all the apt's (programs) you've installed. It only does the Linux one's so make a back up of your "Home" too while your at it.

Alex Stone
01-24-2008, 08:07 AM
Hi Sns :)

Do you have a spare dvd or cd? If so set up your computer following w00t's walkthrough. Once you've done that then put your cd/dvd in and look for "aptoncd" in the "all" section of the program menu. This is what it does...

"AptOnCD is useful for people e.g. who don't have Internet all the time or who have serious bandwidth and/or quota limitations but maybe need to install multiple machines but can't afford to waste their quota on downloading the same package again and again.

So instead they'd have their packages on a CD or DVD and can install again and again via this disk (instead of downloading)."

Its saved my ass a few times :) It makes an ISO back up of all the apt's (programs) you've installed. It only does the Linux one's so make a back up of your "Home" too while your at it.


Hehe, good tip this one.

Thanks Lowkey!


Alex.

lowkey
01-24-2008, 10:15 AM
/me high-fives Alex

Cheers Dude :D

Alex Stone
01-25-2008, 09:13 AM
Ok chaps, next stage in the process, and a new challenge.
I've bought a nice soundcard, with excellent converters, and is one that appears as a module supported card in the alsa matrix. so far so good. (ice1724 chip for those that know what this means.)

And i have to say, after tinkering with it, and trying a few things, the sound is glorious! The card is an ESI Juli@, and the difference is amazing.

As long as i don't use or try to open any programme that relies on OSS.
Frankly i can do without it, as all the more modern programmes use alsa and/or Jack, and including Reaper through alsa with wineasio.

As soon as the soundcard driver makes any sort of OSS attempt, it freezes solid, either through wine, or rosegarden, to use a native example.

I'm quite happy to lose OSS out of the system altogether, so after extensive research involving some wierd and wonderful workarounds, none of which worked, one question remained unanswered.
Can i completely remove OSS from my system, even if it means an alsa recompile?
And will this have any major effects?
I tried several irc's including alsa, and no one seemed to have any idea if this could be done or not.

And help would be appreciated, as i want to use these lovely converters with Reaper, and enjoy the glorious difference.

Alex.

the road may be fraught with danger, and Windows addicts, but the journey continues......

Alex Stone
01-26-2008, 01:21 PM
Sound, sound, sound.
Nice to hear it at last. The Esi Juli@ didn't play, and it seems i'm not the only struggling with using this card in linux. So it was back to the shop, a bit of bartering and good nature humour, and came home with a delta 44. Worked out of the box, with a quick tweak in alsamixer.

Sounds good, and works well. The Linux Envy24 control gives the user plenty of chances to tweak the input and output, and little effort is required to get things humming along nicely.

Most of all, Reaper started in Wine without a hitch, and plays well. After an evening of thorough testing, not only with Reaper, but plenty of native linux programmes too, I'm pleased with the performance of this card so far. With Reaper plugged into JackEQ, and Jamin, the whole signal chain runs smoothly with few challenges, and the same low latency i've come to expect from running a linux system.

for those that don't know, the Delta44 uses an Alsa driver known as 'ice1712'. This driver's been around for a while, so it's fairly mature, and stable, with none of the issues arising from the ice1724 driver. (and a note of caution here, the Maudio 192 uses the 1724 driver, not the 1712, so if you're thinking of buying this card, have a think about it first.)

And all of this works with Jackdmp, Wineasio (The jackbridge version) and numerous 'Ferrari' tweaks when compiling Wine, and Linuxsampler.

Off to do some more testing, and i'll post back with the results.

A big tip: When you open Qjackctl, and set everything up, make sure you check H/W monitor, and not do as i did, and check everything over and over again trying to make a sound., before i noticed it.

Doh.

Alex.

More to come from the wonderful journey in Linux, with Reaper.....

lowkey
01-26-2008, 08:40 PM
Cheers Alex :)

Not music related but it might be useful for people who have a Ubuntu based distro...

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-training-support/2007-December/000077.html

I found it from this page...

http://www.linuxmint.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8594&p=55803#p55803

Drumfix
01-27-2008, 02:38 AM
Too bad you took the card back already. I recently had a look
at the driver and noticed a major bug, which most certainly
will lookup the system pretty easily. Now i have nobody to test
a possible solution...

Alex Stone
01-27-2008, 04:00 AM
Too bad you took the card back already. I recently had a look
at the driver and noticed a major bug, which most certainly
will lookup the system pretty easily. Now i have nobody to test
a possible solution...

Aaah, damn.

Drumfix, if it's possible, can you put this up in a wider context for testing? After researching this, i found there's a lot of users out there struggling with the same problem, and a fix for this would make a lot of people happy, i think.

At a later date i may pick up the card again, as the sound in native linux was superb (As Pipe would say, great converters). The biggest problem was midi and oss. As soon as i opened winecfg, or a programme (Reaper) that used midi, the whole thing locked solid, with the only way out, a power off.

If you do get some feedback that this is successful from somewhere else, please let me know, as i'll add it to the little database i'm building over at the Linuxsampler forum.

Thanks,

Alex.

p.s. The Jackbridge version you built works well. The only thing i have to do is make sure the internet isn't booted when i start it, but once it's going, i can connect, turn jackbridge off and on again no problems.
Thanks for doing this, it takes us a big step forward.

Alex Stone
01-28-2008, 10:45 AM
The Delta seems to have settled in nicely, and has a lovely sound. And after some thought, research, and dismembering the last remaining cactus on the balcony, i finally got to understand something of the envy24 controller for this chipset. (Ice1724)

I'm going to try and do a walkthrough for this card, including some basic Jack settings, and i'm wondering if anyone has one already, to give me some idea of how to lay it out. I admit to being still mystified why, in a software environment, with no h/w ins required, why i need a spdif clock in, instead of a user defined samplerate. (and all attempts so far to change this have proved to be futile. The master clock keeps returning to spdif, instead of a selected sample rate. Help.) On the bright side, the sound is rather delightful, and makes my strings sound rather nice, even, dare i say it, elegant in places. There's hope for them yet!

Interesting stuff, this Linux wizardry!

Alex.
:)

Hehe, the journey continues..........

corazon
01-29-2008, 07:15 PM
The Delta seems to have settled in nicely, and has a lovely sound. And after some thought, research, and dismembering the last remaining cactus on the balcony, i finally got to understand something of the envy24 controller for this chipset. (Ice1724)

snip

[/i]

Just got the Guitar Rig 3 demo (30 minute, no-save sessions) from
Computer Music Magazine, and the standalone version works great with wineasio and mM-audio 24/96, didn't get the .dll working, a surprise, since the Amplitube2 Live .dll works fine. Cheers!

StudioDave
01-30-2008, 10:26 AM
I admit to being still mystified why, in a software environment, with no h/w ins required, why i need a spdif clock in, instead of a user defined samplerate. (and all attempts so far to change this have proved to be futile. The master clock keeps returning to spdif, instead of a selected sample rate. Help.)

Alex, when you make those changes, how are you closing the app ? (I assume you're using the Envy24Control mixer). This problem occurs for you as normal user, yes ? Is the Rate State set to Locked or Reset ?

My settings for the Delta 66 on my JAD box can be seen here:

http://linux-sound.org/images/envy24ctrl.png

Note that I have the SR set to 44100 on my cards, no S/PDIF selected at all in the Master Clock panel.

The Delta 66 card is essentially the same as your 44 but with more channels. They both use the same mixer software. Hopefully we can get your problem straightened out.

Alex Stone
01-30-2008, 11:28 AM
Alex, when you make those changes, how are you closing the app ? (I assume you're using the Envy24Control mixer). This problem occurs for you as normal user, yes ? Is the Rate State set to Locked or Reset ?

My settings for the Delta 66 on my JAD box can be seen here:

http://linux-sound.org/images/envy24ctrl.png

Note that I have the SR set to 44100 on my cards, no S/PDIF selected at all in the Master Clock panel.

The Delta 66 card is essentially the same as your 44 but with more channels. They both use the same mixer software. Hopefully we can get your problem straightened out.

Dave, thanks for chipping in. I'll try opening this as root, and see if that makes a difference. It didn't occur to me that it might not be configurable at that level for user only. Seems strange though,that i can configure the other settings, but just the stubborn spdif eludes me, and refuses to budge. But then it won't save a profile either.

I'll get back here when i've tried it out.

Thanks!

Alex.

Alex Stone
01-30-2008, 02:48 PM
Alex, when you make those changes, how are you closing the app ? (I assume you're using the Envy24Control mixer). This problem occurs for you as normal user, yes ? Is the Rate State set to Locked or Reset ?

My settings for the Delta 66 on my JAD box can be seen here:

http://linux-sound.org/images/envy24ctrl.png

Note that I have the SR set to 44100 on my cards, no S/PDIF selected at all in the Master Clock panel.

The Delta 66 card is essentially the same as your 44 but with more channels. They both use the same mixer software. Hopefully we can get your problem straightened out.

A genius suggestion that worked, and thanks Dave.
After logging into envy as root, i was able to readjust everything, and promptly got Beethoven back in Rhythmbox, in all his glory. Sound is excellent. Now my next challenge is to get the sound into, and out of Jack, because it doesn't want to play at the moment.
As i understand it from a lot of googling, the ice1712 module lacks a monitor master, and there is some sort of special trick to getting the sound working with Jack.
I have a question at this point. Does Jack recognise all the ports available from the module (and i understand this to be 12 in 10 out) and if so, will Jack see all the ports, or only a proportion of them? At the moment, with Jackdmp/Jackbridge, i have 2 out ports to connect to, yet i have 10 outs in Jack. I'm still to figure this out.

The help is much appreciated Dave, thank you.

Alex.

:)

StudioDave
01-31-2008, 01:49 AM
As i understand it from a lot of googling, the ice1712 module lacks a monitor master, and there is some sort of special trick to getting the sound working with Jack.

You mean sound as in a monitor send ? You'll need to check HW Monitoring in QJackCtl, then you use the Patchbay/Router panel in Envy24Ctl. IIRC, you need to check the Digital Mix options. Let me know if that works correctly.

Does Jack recognise all the ports available from the module (and i understand this to be 12 in 10 out) and if so, will Jack see all the ports, or only a proportion of them? At the moment, with Jackdmp/Jackbridge, i have 2 out ports to connect to, yet i have 10 outs in Jack. I'm still to figure this out.


Again, IIRC the ice1712 module shows ports that aren't actually available. I think it wants to believe it's always driving a Delta 1010 (same chipset). Easy test, just run something through each channel to see if there's any audio I/O.

Btw, my QJackCtl shows 12/10 ports, just like yours.

I think your Delta 44 can be considered a 4-channel (stereo) device + stereo SPDIF, or an 8-channel (mono) + stereo SPDIF device. I'm not too sure about all that though. Maybe check with the ALSA guys for the whole lowdown ?

HTH. :)

Alex Stone
02-01-2008, 09:01 AM
You mean sound as in a monitor send ? You'll need to check HW Monitoring in QJackCtl, then you use the Patchbay/Router panel in Envy24Ctl. IIRC, you need to check the Digital Mix options. Let me know if that works correctly.



Again, IIRC the ice1712 module shows ports that aren't actually available. I think it wants to believe it's always driving a Delta 1010 (same chipset). Easy test, just run something through each channel to see if there's any audio I/O.

Btw, my QJackCtl shows 12/10 ports, just like yours.

I think your Delta 44 can be considered a 4-channel (stereo) device + stereo SPDIF, or an 8-channel (mono) + stereo SPDIF device. I'm not too sure about all that though. Maybe check with the ALSA guys for the whole lowdown ?

HTH. :)

Dave, nailed it finally, and the sudo envycontrol was the clue. I had previously disabled oss, and i think corrupted something else. when i reinstalled jack, jackdmp, and the latest alsa, i booted up and voila. The latest version of the mighty Reaper, accompanied by the superb Linuxsampler in glorious stereo.

When i opened Envy control (as root), and reset everything, i then rebooted, and opened Envycontrol as user. Not only was i able to manipulate everything as i should be able to do, but i'm able to use several programmes at once, with 10 out ports appearing in the Jackdmp/qjackctl/jackbridge hybrid monster.

Thanks mate, it was the right clue, at the right time, and after a raft of additional research, the light came on in what's left of the grey matter between my ears.

I'm adding a special thanks to Justin and the Reaper team here. I'm not sure what happened in the last update, maybe someone accidentally dropped a spanner in the gearbox while they were distracted :) , but Reaper is flying in Wine/Linux, like never before. I confess i don't understand this, but i'm certainly not complaining.

With a formidable wineasio/jackbridge (Drumfix, you're a legend, thanks mate.), Stephane Letz's excellent jackdmp for us multiprocessor types (0.69 out now!), the formidable Linuxsampler compiled to a more modest 600 voices these days (and watch out for LS VST here, it could be coming soon as those scallywag LS fellas are full of surprises, like the mischievous Reaper Ruffians :) ), and the mighty Reaper jumping ahead in leaps and bounds, I'm going to need a bigger box!
Life's good in Linux with all of the above, and getting more interesting every day.

Hehe....

Alex.
:)

After a dangerous and daunting journey through the dimly lit jungle trails of linux audiosetup, it's back in the sunlight again, leaving a battered and bruised google behind, and so the journey continues....

404NotFound
02-01-2008, 01:42 PM
I'm pretty sure you have compiled alsa as root :D I'm glad that you could fix your issues.

Is there a certain interest in an Reaper + 64studio Live CD HowTo?

Alex Stone
02-02-2008, 12:56 AM
I'm pretty sure you have compiled alsa as root :D I'm glad that you could fix your issues.

Is there a certain interest in an Reaper + 64studio Live CD HowTo?

I have no doubt you're right, 404. User error is my start point by default, lol.

As for a how to?

Yes please. The more info we get together, the more chance of a better user experience.

Thanks,

Alex.

lowkey
02-02-2008, 06:58 AM
Yes please 404. I tried JAD but my soundcard (motherboard based and I'm getting 3 ms!) wasn't seen so I stuck with Linux Mint. Thank you w00t for the Wine walk through :D

I'm getting a HDSP 9632 when I have enough saved up. From what Ive found out so far it's a digital mixer like my old DSP2416but without the EQ, effects or dynamics. Reaper wouldn't have to sum up the audio streams if I route through the HDSP 9632 freeing up more power for EQ, dynamics and effects. WineASIO wouldn't have to work as hard so my computer should be easier to make silent.

My plan is pretty similar to Alex's; Building a digital audio appliance.

So as I said on my first post; Thank you Alex and co for documenting what your doing and Justin for making a tool which is flexible and bloat proof. ^_^

Alex Stone
02-02-2008, 11:35 AM
Ok, after a solid day of testing the new updates from alsa, jack, jackdmp, and Reaper, i can offer the following:

Alsa 0.16rc2. Installed fine, and for my particular module, no problems. (ice1712) The fellas at Alsa have been busy, and the last two up grades have been substantial, including fixing some longer term bugs. Thanks fellas.

Then, onto the next stage:

Jackdmp 0.70.
Jackd 1.09.2

These are the latest updates, hot off the net. After installing Jackd first, then Jackdmp over the top, qjackctl kicked into life as normal. (I have a script that bumps jackbridge into life first.)

Simply excellent. Faster boot into Jack, and no error messages. (I have been doing a lot of work fine tuning, and carefully reinstalling programmes that i installed badly in the first place. Note to self: Read the read me file EVERY time.) I've had the privilege of communicating with Stephane, of Jack and Jackdmp fame, and was asked to give him an update on the jackdmp build.
Not much to say except "woohoo!".
Works a treat, and now the jack midi driver appears in Reaper running in wine.

Reaper.
I know i can wax rather lyrical about Reaper attributes running in Wine, but for me, there's good reason to applaud and admire the speed, and ease of install and use running Reap in wine. It just keeps getting better. I almost wish i could find an issue with it, just to provide at least a semblance of balance, but it's hard to do. how do you say something's not right, when it is? :)

Reaper sees the new jack driver no problem, sees everything else, and with wine 0.51, runs like a dream. Now my soundcard is going sweetly, the picture's looking good.

At the time of writing this post, I've had NO xruns for the day(first time ever, and 11 hours so far) running the new Jack/dmp build at 48000, 8ms, 128, with a full orchestral Linuxsampler template, and just over 200 tracks in the mighty Reaper.

I'll post some more later....

Alex.

And a thoroughly enjoyable journey continues....

Alex Stone
02-04-2008, 09:27 AM
I've been busy lately, organising templates for both Linuxsampler and Reaper, and at the moment i'm in the middle of planning out a full orchestra template for daily use. It's often the case, and certainly has been in the past, that fair degree of juggling goes on when switching, for example, from release to non release samples.

So a progress report with a pic.


Here's the total of channels, at a 'maximum' stable level. And frankly, it's the hardware that places a limit here, plus my running a 32bit version of Ubuntustudio. Why? Because currently, wine, for Reaper, is still 32bits, and I continue to hope that the devs at wine will build a 64bit version sometime in the near future. In addition, both Jack and Wineasio have matured fast, Reaper and Linuxsampler are both 64bit, so i'm....eagerly waiting for updates, for a potential 64bit continuous chain from LS to Reaper, and out the end.

However, we are where we are, so here's a quick pic of qsampler running with a 'near' finished 32bit OS orchestral template. As soon as i get total 64bit, this one will go much further than is current.
A superb example of LS hungrily eating everything i'm throwing at it, with Reaper in Wine champing at the bit to get its hands on all those ports! :)

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/21454/Screenshot-Qsampler-%5B-home-alex-Qsamp-Full_Orchestra_prime.lscp%5D.png
There are no xruns running this, as a result of a combination of system tweaking, and the latest updates from Jackdmp, Jack, and alsa, with work i've done getting the soundcard right. (And again, thanks to all those who contributed to helping make this happen. It's much appreciated.)
More to come....

Alex.
:)

p.s. Just to add to this, if i were to assign a track in Reaper for every channel in LS, i would have near to 250, once i'd added busses. But because Reaper's routing is outstanding, and the MEditor can handle Multi channel midi, i have one midi track for each midi port. In the above template, i have 32 midi channels each for the strings sections, so each section gets two midi tracks and 1 audio track. For the woodwinds, and brass, i have 1 instrument articulation 'set', so 1 flute set, 1 oboe set, etc. In Reaper i have 1 midi multi channel track for each of these instrument 'sets', but two or three audio tracks for each, depending on the size of section i choose. (French Horns, for example, have 1 midi multichannel track, but 4-8 audio tracks, for a full section sound).

Hehe, clear as mud!

Shan
02-04-2008, 01:16 PM
Great to see all this evolve so rapidly Alex. Good job. Yeah, gotta have those French horns, a personal fave of mine. I just gotta get my Hindi String articulations down now for my next venture. :D

Shane

Alex Stone
02-04-2008, 02:26 PM
Great to see all this evolve so rapidly Alex. Good job. Yeah, gotta have those French horns, a personal fave of mine. I just gotta get my Hindi String articulations down now for my next venture. :D

Shane

Yes mate, the interest level, and speed of progress by devs from every direction is worth enthusing about. It's rewarding to see it all starting to come together, not just for me, but other users, and the devs as well, as they see their craftsmanship being put to use.

I continue to admire and appreciate the skills.

Alex.

Alex Stone
02-04-2008, 02:30 PM
A quick question for StudioDave.

Dave, can this utility programme alsaseq2jackmidi be compiled with more than 1 midi port? LS now has Jack midi, in conjunction with improved and stable jack midi in, erm, jackdmp, as well.

We're so close now, i can smell the penguins!

Alex.

:)

Alex Stone
02-04-2008, 03:03 PM
I've been watching and researching jack through Wine to Reaper for some time, and now we have Jack midi showing up in Reaper (Yes!At last), I'm curious to know, if there is a limit on how many jack ports we can see, or put through wine. Is this dependent on how many ports we have open, or do i need to configure manually something else in Wine to give me multiple jack midi ports?

Or alternatively, am i seeing this from the wrong angle?

Alex.

StudioDave
02-04-2008, 04:08 PM
Dave, can this utility programme alsaseq2jackmidi be compiled with more than 1 midi port?

Well, a quick look into the code shows that it's dependent upon jack/midiport.h for its ports setup, but I'm not sure how/what you'll change within aseq2jackmidi.c.

I've written to Sean Bolton and asked him, he wrote it. :)

Alex Stone
02-04-2008, 10:57 PM
Well, a quick look into the code shows that it's dependent upon jack/midiport.h for its ports setup, but I'm not sure how/what you'll change within aseq2jackmidi.c.

I've written to Sean Bolton and asked him, he wrote it. :)

Thanks Dave.
Be interesting to hear what he says.

Alex.

Alex Stone
02-05-2008, 06:59 AM
I've made comment more than once about a new and rapidly developing notation editor called Mscore. It's developer, Werner Schweer, the author of the 'Muse' project, split off the notation from the main sequencer, and continued developing as a standalone notation programme in not only Linux, but now Windows as well.

And with the latest release, a lot has changed in a short time.
First, here's a pic of the programme i'm so keen to see as the 'Sibelius' or 'Finale', for linux users.

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/21578/Screenshot-MuseScore-short-draft-2.png

With a simple layout, yet an extensive array of tools, and notation components, this programme has become usuable quickly. I intend, over the next few weeks, to learn and document my progress with mscore from a workability perspective.

On the left of the main editing page is the palletes menu, a comprehensive section, encompassing all the regular, and some not so regular notational devices that a composer would use, including, for the guitarists, a tab clef section, and the ability to create tab staves, at will. The preferences section includes specific parameters for page size, layout, style, and transport and playback devices. Mscore can either play from a soundfont, or be ported out to Jack, Alsa, and portaudio. (And as many of you know by now, i'm particularly enthused with jack porting, and hope that more developers get behind this server to unify these programmes, with a tightly synced audio and midi porting hub.)

Here's another pic of the palletes section open on the left of the pic, showing an extensive collection of clefs.

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/21577/Screenshot-MuseScore-short-draft-2-1.png

Mscore is now at 0.9.1 in its development cycle, and is available as an executable binary for windows as well.

More to come....

Alex.

lowkey
02-05-2008, 07:24 AM
Alex do you have a graphics's tablet? It might speed your flow up.

Alex Stone
02-05-2008, 09:11 AM
Alex do you have a graphics's tablet? It might speed your flow up.

I've used one in the past, Lowkey, with mixed success. More often than not, the software didn't respond that well, and it didn't always behave.
However, i may revisit this at a later stage, now i'm in a different os with a different workflow.
Thanks for the heads up!

Alex.

StudioDave
02-05-2008, 11:00 AM
Mscore is now at 0.9.1 in its development cycle, and is available as an executable binary for windows as well.

Neither of my Linux systems is suitably up-to-date for compiling Mscore, so I decided to check out the Windows release under Wine. Worked like a champ, and I was able to get sound for the Moussorgsky example.

Funny, how all that worked out. :)

Alex Stone
02-05-2008, 12:33 PM
Neither of my Linux systems is suitably up-to-date for compiling Mscore, so I decided to check out the Windows release under Wine. Worked like a champ, and I was able to get sound for the Moussorgsky example.

Funny, how all that worked out. :)

Yes it is! :)
Werner's been busy, and i'll have a rather pleasant day tommorrow discovering just how far he's got. Interesting that we have Jack in this update too.

I may not be able to see the 64bit penguin just yet, but i can, at least, hear it!

Alex.

norbury brook
02-05-2008, 02:59 PM
Alex,

I've been following this thread for a couple of weeks now with great interest, in fact i'm typing this from my Ubuntu machine!!!as a result.A couple of things though, On this machine, an old thing i had lying around(athlon Xp2800 1.5 gigs ram,ATI radeon 9600)I get poor performance under linux compared to windows.

As an example I can run Reapers Brad Sucks at 64 buffer sample rate under XP no problems with the on board NVidea chip and Asio4all and everything runs smooth and groovy.On the same hardware under Linux courtesy of W00T's setup I get poor performance.

As a non music machine its great under linux but for music it doesn't cut the mustard,so,what are you getting from linux compared to running Xp on the same machine?



MC

Jack Winter
02-05-2008, 11:52 PM
I have tried to run kubuntu/reaper on a P4 3Ghz, 1 GB RAM and Matrox G450 graphics card. A no go. Brad sucks shows a pattern of increasing cpu usage until it dies.

Me I'm building a new computer to solve the problem ;-)

Alex Stone
02-06-2008, 01:59 AM
MC, Jack, it's just occured to me to ask this, but are either of you running the low latency kernel?

Alex.

eric71
02-06-2008, 02:03 AM
Alex,

I've been following this thread for a couple of weeks now with great interest, in fact i'm typing this from my Ubuntu machine!!!as a result.A couple of things though, On this machine, an old thing i had lying around(athlon Xp2800 1.5 gigs ram,ATI radeon 9600)I get poor performance under linux compared to windows.

As an example I can run Reapers Brad Sucks at 64 buffer sample rate under XP no problems with the on board NVidea chip and Asio4all and everything runs smooth and groovy.On the same hardware under Linux courtesy of W00T's setup I get poor performance.

As a non music machine its great under linux but for music it doesn't cut the mustard,so,what are you getting from linux compared to running Xp on the same machine?



MC

I had similar problems with Brad Sucks on my Fujitsu Laptop with onboard AC97 card. The major issue turned out to be the resampling from the project's native 44.1 to my card's 48. Changing the Playback Resample Mode to a less demanding algorithm helped. I forget what the default was, but it was one of the higher quality, more CPU intensive ones. Once this was changed, Brad Sucks played back with no problems. This is about the only example of where the performance under Linux with wineasio isn't equal to that under XP. I only get xruns when opening big vst's, but nothing that effects recording or playback.

Eric

norbury brook
02-06-2008, 02:12 AM
Alex,

Yes, I've got my machine set up with W00ts great instructions, I'm running this;

linux 2.6.22-14-rt #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Tue Dec 18 10:01:34 UTC 2007 i686 GNU/Linux

I've set jack up following the recommended settings but as I said before performance is very poor,I thought the whole idea was linux would give us a better environment to work in not worse :-)


cheers

MC

Alex Stone
02-06-2008, 02:19 AM
Alex,

Yes, I've got my machine set up with W00ts great instructions, I'm running this;

linux 2.6.22-14-rt #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Tue Dec 18 10:01:34 UTC 2007 i686 GNU/Linux

I've set jack up following the recommended settings but as I said before performance is very poor,I thought the whole idea was linux would give us a better environment to work in not worse :-)


cheers

MC

MC, i certainly benefit from being in a linux environment, lol.
I don't understand the rising cpu. Eric provides a possible clue here with sample rates, and i noticed you're running an ATI radeon card. Are you using an ATI restricted driver, or the generic vesa driver?

Alex.

Alex Stone
02-06-2008, 03:03 AM
I had similar problems with Brad Sucks on my Fujitsu Laptop with onboard AC97 card. The major issue turned out to be the resampling from the project's native 44.1 to my card's 48. Changing the Playback Resample Mode to a less demanding algorithm helped. I forget what the default was, but it was one of the higher quality, more CPU intensive ones. Once this was changed, Brad Sucks played back with no problems. This is about the only example of where the performance under Linux with wineasio isn't equal to that under XP. I only get xruns when opening big vst's, but nothing that effects recording or playback.

Eric

Some great points here, Eric. There's quite a deal of info specifying how important it is to match sample rates with configured Alsa modules. mine's 48000, and i got an immediate jump in stability, and smooth running, when i matched this all along the audio chain.
It's also worth noting here, that since i updated Alsa, Jack, and Jackdmp, i've had NO xruns at all. (5 days now) Even opening and closing programmes, which use to incur an xrun or two, no longer does this. I'm rather pleased, as you may be able to tell.

All of this is really taking shape, and there's been a big jump in Dev activity for all this utilities and programmes in the last 3 months. Great to see the increasing maturity coming in good programmes, from talented coders.

Alex.

sbenno
02-06-2008, 07:12 AM
Alex,
As an example I can run Reapers Brad Sucks at 64 buffer sample rate under XP no problems with the on board NVidea chip and Asio4all and everything runs smooth and groovy.On the same hardware under Linux courtesy of W00T's setup I get poor performance.


I think it has to do with the fact that some onboard audio cards (nvidia,via,ac97) do have poor driver implementations under Linux. Sometimes even if you install a real time kernel you still get xruns.
Get a decent audio card which is known to offer low latency under Linux and your system will fly.
For example the Delta1010LT is cheap and works very well.

S-N-S
02-06-2008, 07:26 AM
hi
i finally got my new 250gb harddrive for my laptop,but now i have problems installing windows on it,the computer wont boot from any of my windows cds(xp and vista)the only cd it will boot from is ubuntu 6,0,6

i tried to install that to see if i could install windows,from within linux,but that was a no-go.

now i want to delete ubuntu,but how do i do that??

Stargard
02-06-2008, 12:01 PM
installed Reaper on Ubuntu 7.10 with real time kernel and Wine (thanks to W00t's great and only available real Linux audio tutorial for noobs).

Reaper starts, Energy XT starts. audio doesn't work properly. latency is 1024 smpls and I get continues crackles and pops. the playback is asynchronous, slows down, stops, etc (read: a joke).
I'm using the on-board Realtek (?) sound device.

playing the demo song through Asio4All in Windows XP with 128 smpls is no problem at all. hell, I ran a 70 tracks project with tons of VSTs on the 1.7GHz laptop (I have a Packard Bell EasyNote with 1GB of RAM and a 100GB harddrive) - no problems at all. I can play a lot of tracks at 64 smpls with no glitches, when triggering sequences via Midi keyboard (in Energy XT 1.4, which is not exactly a resources/timing friendly environment).

Reaper takes roughly 40-50% more "load" in Windows than XT 1.4.

I think I could live with 256 smpls, even though I would prefer 128. Energy XT2, Linux version - no go at all.

downloaded a demo of Renoise for Linux. the internal Alsa (?) drivers work, Jack, no go.

I think the problem is Jack, but even when using the recommended settings (the therm "recommended" seems to differ completely from thread to thread lol), Jack won't start properly, often shuts down.

when using XT2's precompiled Jack libaam.so, it starts, but I can't get sound out of Jack.

week four of Linux audio experiment and Bill Gates starts to look like a savior. lol

sbenno
02-06-2008, 01:05 PM
Reaper starts, Energy XT starts. audio doesn't work properly. latency is 1024 smpls and I get continues crackles and pops. the playback is asynchronous, slows down, stops, etc (read: a joke).
I'm using the on-board Realtek (?) sound device.


I think it's because the reason I already mentioned above. crappy linux drivers for crappy integrated audio cards. Probably no linux audio developer is interested to improve them as I can hardly imagine someone doing serious work with those cards.

If you see the numbers Alex is getting from his linux setup they are much better than the numbers you get under Windows.

Changing your audio card will catapult you into a new low latency world.
if you cannot afford ie a second hand m-audio delta card then better not to start with audio stuff as windows audio software is normally quite expensive.
(assuming that one does not pirate the software).

I think hardly anyone cares that Linux does not provide low latency using crappy sound cards.
So even if Windows is superior in these cases, the audio user usually does not care as those sound cards are toys which are good to play a few background music or call a friend via voip software but certainly not to produce songs with.

Stargard
02-06-2008, 01:38 PM
I think hardly anyone cares that Linux does not provide low latency using crappy sound cards.
So even if Windows is superior in these cases, the audio user usually does not care as those sound cards are toys which are good to play a few background music or call a friend via voip software but certainly not to produce songs with.

your reasoning makes me quite sad. I imagine a 3rd world country kid now, which is happy as hell to get an old laptop PC and you come in and tell this poor mortal to stop making music, because your M-Audio card is worth more than his laptop. wannabe elitist attitude.

wasn't Linux about being compatible with dated mid-range hardware, or did it suddenly turn into a party for alternative OS for Pro Tools HD rigs. sorry, but you make no sense at all.

a lot of ass-sumptions my friend. funny enough, working with the crappy on board sound card and creating tracks (not recording) works the same, as using the Hammerfall 9652 ran through a O2R on my workstation. so you are saying, that creating some tracks with headphones connected to the laptop is different than using the same headphones connected to a 3k mixing desk, connected through ADAT to the Hammerfall?

when did Reaper or Energy XT raise its prices for Linux users? and the hundreds of free VSTs at KVR are payware now? didn't know, sorry.

I have a 200Ä Alesis PhotonX25 Audio, but since it's under 1000Ä, I bet it's too crappy for Linux anyway.

all I'm trying to say is: if Linux-developers are interested in the audio elite, please say so and as a creator of elite-software you have the right to. but please leave your uninformed, wannabe elitist attitude about the music creation process at the door.

thanks for being no help at all.

norbury brook
02-06-2008, 03:36 PM
The only linux compatible sound device i had lying around was an M audio Quattro which appears as a USB device, and to be honest it was worse than the onboard. My SSL mixpander doesnt have drivers,neither does the Maudio fire wire box I have, or my VSL2020 which is happily running at 32 sample buffer on a 2 nd machine in my studio so I'm testing with what i've got lying around here at home just out of curiosity.

Alex,My drivers for the ATI are the FGLRX drivers that come with UBUNTU,the rest of my software seems up to date according to the update manager.

MC

marce
02-06-2008, 04:23 PM
If anyone has what to do, im asking help about install the nvidia drivers, im doing something wrong, but is not so obvious what is, appear to be:

http://forum.jacklab.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=667

shane
02-06-2008, 05:40 PM
Any chance of getting a dedicated Linux forum? I hear they're pretty cheap these days...

Alex Stone
02-07-2008, 12:51 AM
installed Reaper on Ubuntu 7.10 with real time kernel and Wine (thanks to W00t's great and only available real Linux audio tutorial for noobs).

Reaper starts, Energy XT starts. audio doesn't work properly. latency is 1024 smpls and I get continues crackles and pops. the playback is asynchronous, slows down, stops, etc (read: a joke).
I'm using the on-board Realtek (?) sound device.

playing the demo song through Asio4All in Windows XP with 128 smpls is no problem at all. hell, I ran a 70 tracks project with tons of VSTs on the 1.7GHz laptop (I have a Packard Bell EasyNote with 1GB of RAM and a 100GB harddrive) - no problems at all. I can play a lot of tracks at 64 smpls with no glitches, when triggering sequences via Midi keyboard (in Energy XT 1.4, which is not exactly a resources/timing friendly environment).

Reaper takes roughly 40-50% more "load" in Windows than XT 1.4.

I think I could live with 256 smpls, even though I would prefer 128. Energy XT2, Linux version - no go at all.

downloaded a demo of Renoise for Linux. the internal Alsa (?) drivers work, Jack, no go.

I think the problem is Jack, but even when using the recommended settings (the therm "recommended" seems to differ completely from thread to thread lol), Jack won't start properly, often shuts down.

when using XT2's precompiled Jack libaam.so, it starts, but I can't get sound out of Jack.

week four of Linux audio experiment and Bill Gates starts to look like a savior. lol

Stargard, can you post a pic of your jack setup?

Alex.

Alex Stone
02-07-2008, 12:58 AM
your reasoning makes me quite sad. I imagine a 3rd world country kid now, which is happy as hell to get an old laptop PC and you come in and tell this poor mortal to stop making music, because your M-Audio card is worth more than his laptop. wannabe elitist attitude.

wasn't Linux about being compatible with dated mid-range hardware, or did it suddenly turn into a party for alternative OS for Pro Tools HD rigs. sorry, but you make no sense at all.

a lot of ass-sumptions my friend. funny enough, working with the crappy on board sound card and creating tracks (not recording) works the same, as using the Hammerfall 9652 ran through a O2R on my workstation. so you are saying, that creating some tracks with headphones connected to the laptop is different than using the same headphones connected to a 3k mixing desk, connected through ADAT to the Hammerfall?

when did Reaper or Energy XT raise its prices for Linux users? and the hundreds of free VSTs at KVR are payware now? didn't know, sorry.

I have a 200€ Alesis PhotonX25 Audio, but since it's under 1000€, I bet it's too crappy for Linux anyway.

all I'm trying to say is: if Linux-developers are interested in the audio elite, please say so and as a creator of elite-software you have the right to. but please leave your uninformed, wannabe elitist attitude about the music creation process at the door.

thanks for being no help at all.

I think there's a bit of a misinterpretation here, Stargard. I've seen Benno helping out quite a few folk with onboard cards, so he's not anti and elitist at all. It's also worth remembering, that chaps like me, who get right into the nuts and bolts of a project, and research the hell out of it, tend to have different results than those who plug in and play. (No offence intended). Linux is certainly more mainstream than it was, but there's still a degree of tweaking involved, and learning and researching will certainly help this. Benno is right to quote my successes (and failures, hehe), but i've been doing this fulltime from the start of my linux project, so i've learnt quite a bit, and made many mistakes along the way.

Onboard cards can be problematic, that's a fact. It's also true that they tend to get less attention than more high profile hw cards, from the module builders and devs. Don't know why, but let's face it, linux devs do this stuff for the enjoyment, challenge, and incentive of providing tools for others to use, and a lot of them do it part time, with regular jobs to hold down as well. And, it's up to the HW manufacturers to provide the info so others can write drivers. If you're going to get frustated with anyone, then those who refuse to provide specs, or build linux drivers, are the real target. If you feel a bit like a pariah using linux with sometime limited choices, then write to the HW manufacturer for the card of your choice, and let em know how you feel. Maybe with enough momentum from people like us, linux users, including those kids and users in more challenging circumstances, may get a better deal, and in turn, the HW manufacturers get more customers (This seems obvious to me.)
So i give you a friendly challenge :) , to add your weight by regular and repeat email to a soundcard manufacturer(s) demanding linux drivers. If they get enough emails and letters things might change. We can but try!

Alsa, Jack, and Jackdmp have all had major updates in the last three or so weeks, so maybe it's worth a look through the changelogs, and seeing if your particular onboard card has received some 'linux lurv.'

Alex.

Alex Stone
02-07-2008, 01:09 AM
The only linux compatible sound device i had lying around was an M audio Quattro which appears as a USB device, and to be honest it was worse than the onboard. My SSL mixpander doesnt have drivers,neither does the Maudio fire wire box I have, or my VSL2020 which is happily running at 32 sample buffer on a 2 nd machine in my studio so I'm testing with what i've got lying around here at home just out of curiosity.

Alex,My drivers for the ATI are the FGLRX drivers that come with UBUNTU,the rest of my software seems up to date according to the update manager.

MC

Norbury, i'd be the first to admit i had to research cards carefully when choosing one. That's down to HW manufacturers. Some are cool, and work at developing linux drivers (RME, Maudio,etc.) in cooperation with the team from Alsa, and distro devs. Others are, frankly, not interested. And even then , the popular HW companies don't always provide drivers or specs for all their range. (RME, please, let's have linux drivers for MADI. You know you want to. :) )

As far as ATI goes, in my experience they are crap at providing linux devs with specs to write drivers with. I have an ATI that i use the generic vesa driver for, and will change this vidcard for an nvidia soon, as they at peast seem interested in supporting linux users. (and i still don't get why HW manufacturers are so scared of writing drivers for linux. Missing a big chunk of market there.)


It's also worth noting here, that the deb packages that get included with distros like ubuntu, are often older versions, and they can be slow at updating these. If you're a little adventurous, or like me, completely bonkers at updating stuff, you can go to programme sites and install later versions from source.

Have you been to the Alsa site and checked the changelogs in later builds? There might be (or not) an update for your card.

Alex.

Alex Stone
02-07-2008, 01:10 AM
Any chance of getting a dedicated Linux forum? I hear they're pretty cheap these days...

Hehe, worth thinking about Shan, but at a level above our heads, lol.

Alex.

sbenno
02-07-2008, 09:15 AM
your reasoning makes me quite sad. I imagine a 3rd world country kid now, which is happy as hell to get an old laptop PC and you come in and tell this poor mortal to stop making music, because your M-Audio card is worth more than his laptop. wannabe elitist attitude.


Sorry, I really did not want to discriminate or bash anyone. Sorry for the perhaps harsh tone of my mail. I am absolutely not an elitist and I applaud those wanting to tryout windows.

I wrote the mail out of frustration that people quickly try out Linux and dismiss it as something which inferior when the truth is exactly what Alex said, thanks to manufacturers which do not release specs, linux developers often do have to to reverse engineer the hardware to build their own drivers and reverse engineering does not lead to optimal results. This is one of the reasons why the drivers do not work optimally and sometimes provide worse latency than the windows counterpart (which is supplied by the manufacturer).

This is why I advocate to support manufacturers that provide open source drivers by buying their products. Over time uncooperative manufacturers will get the message.
MOTU for example seems to completely ignore linux users so users are flocking to RME, M-audio and other linux friendly manufacturers.

So users of consumer audio cards please do as Alex said, write to manufacturers, complain about missing or bad linux audio drivers (bad latency) ask them to provide specs to the ALSA linux audio driver project and if possible contribute a working driver. If enough people will do it those issues will hopefully go away in a not too distant future.
After all manufacturers need to listen to customers. Linux is not going away anytime soon and Linux friendly companies are only going to profit from it.
After all there must be a reason that one of the large PC manufacturers like DELL now sells PCs and Laptops with Ubuntu preinstalled and even offer support for it.

You can try to ask the developers of consumer cards (usually you find their names and email addresses on the ALSA website or driver sources) and see if they can solve the latency problem for you.

If you look at Alex he solved lots of his problems by communicating with developers and his issues are benefiting everyone, he pointed out some smaller problems, bugs and usability issues in LinuxSampler and the devs corrected them and now the fixes are available to everyone.

I admire him as he tackles challenges and problems with positivism and patience and it is amazing to see how far he went in a few months. And this without being a programmer or geek.

So let's all work together and make linux the best audio platform.
The journey is still long but there is light at the end of the tunnel, as users Alex and others are showing us.

peace,
Benno

Jack Winter
02-07-2008, 11:52 AM
MC, Jack, it's just occured to me to ask this, but are either of you running the low latency kernel?

Alex.

Yes. I won't swear to it, but I think I tried booting the normal kernel too...

Stargard
02-07-2008, 04:08 PM
Sorry, I really did not want to discriminate or bash anyone. Sorry for the perhaps harsh tone of my mail. I am absolutely not an elitist and I applaud those wanting to tryout windows.

I wrote the mail out of frustration that people quickly try out Linux and dismiss it as something which inferior when the truth is exactly what Alex said, thanks to manufacturers which do not release specs, linux developers often do have to to reverse engineer the hardware to build their own drivers and reverse engineering does not lead to optimal results. This is one of the reasons why the drivers do not work optimally and sometimes provide worse latency than the windows counterpart (which is supplied by the manufacturer).

This is why I advocate to support manufacturers that provide open source drivers by buying their products. Over time uncooperative manufacturers will get the message.
MOTU for example seems to completely ignore linux users so users are flocking to RME, M-audio and other linux friendly manufacturers.

So users of consumer audio cards please do as Alex said, write to manufacturers, complain about missing or bad linux audio drivers (bad latency) ask them to provide specs to the ALSA linux audio driver project and if possible contribute a working driver. If enough people will do it those issues will hopefully go away in a not too distant future.
After all manufacturers need to listen to customers. Linux is not going away anytime soon and Linux friendly companies are only going to profit from it.
After all there must be a reason that one of the large PC manufacturers like DELL now sells PCs and Laptops with Ubuntu preinstalled and even offer support for it.

You can try to ask the developers of consumer cards (usually you find their names and email addresses on the ALSA website or driver sources) and see if they can solve the latency problem for you.

If you look at Alex he solved lots of his problems by communicating with developers and his issues are benefiting everyone, he pointed out some smaller problems, bugs and usability issues in LinuxSampler and the devs corrected them and now the fixes are available to everyone.

I admire him as he tackles challenges and problems with positivism and patience and it is amazing to see how far he went in a few months. And this without being a programmer or geek.

So let's all work together and make linux the best audio platform.
The journey is still long but there is light at the end of the tunnel, as users Alex and others are showing us.

peace,
Benno

Benno,

you see, this is *my personal* problem with Linux.
not the hardware, not the software. the PEOPLE.

you were assuming, as a self-defense mechanism, that a.) I am inferior in my knowledge (stupid Windows pig) b.) I can't afford the oh-so-professional M-Audio cards. (please read the whole post with <SARCASM & IRONY> in mind)

truth is, you went on to explain the world to me......but you didn't even read my post.

the problem is not Linux (which I am using to write this post and surf the net and write letters/books with and edit pictures with and videos and to chat with to watch Google Tech Talks with.........well, lol, you get the picture), the problem is the Jack software/server.

as you can read in my last post, which was a little too whiney, I admit, you can perfectly and clearly read, that my onboard sound codec is perfectly compatible with Linux.

in fact, the latest Linux drivers provided by Realtek, for 2.6xx kernels were updated just three weeks ago - as you can see, again, it has nothing to do with evil pro-Windows developers.

so read your post again please. how was it helpful? a simple question like "hey, dude, it's probably your incompatible soundchip. do you have Linux-native drivers for it?" would be sufficient. but you went on to bash me for being unprofessional. where did I state that I started to make music last week? that I've never seen a computer in my life and stumbling upon this forum was a lucky mistake? lol

sorry man, but your Linux-snobism and passiv-agressiv attitude won't do you good (I know it, I was a Mac snob for years) - plus, it was completely unnecessary, since I already use and love Linux and my only problem with it (not even *it*, more Jack), is the ass-backwards-breathing-through-the-ears attitude towards audio.

and besides Jack, I have no problems at all with ALSA and audio. (the external, USB Audio interface - Alesis Photon X 25 Audio which I can't get to work either, even though it's recognized as a device by Jack and can be used as a Midi input in ALSA/Renoise - so it works)

I am not a complete retard (I can read and write and tie my shoelaces) and I can explain to every 6 year old kid the theory of relativity, why Mach and Tesla figured out the flaws before it was completed - no problem there.

but somehow, "this statement is false". not even Descartes and Goedel could grasp the genius it requires to set up audio in Linux - with working drivers.

I am not bashing Linux at all. I am talking about the users.

it took me 6 (!!!) hours to set up my internet account, because no, Ubuntu haven't heard of people who pay for their internet accounts, therefore require account information and passwords for access and I was told to buy a WiFi-modul for 100Ä and do some rocket science - only to find out, after reading through roughly (no kidding here) 25 threads and 200 pages of know-it-all bullshit, that it takes ONE command to set it up in the Terminal and never care about it again. (and 99% of the folks need this little info!)

and you are asking me to do the same, again. so please excuse my pissed-off tone, but when I smell bullshit, I call it. lol

in general, as a conscious decision, if I was a developer, I would care about the (literally) MILLIONS of users, who have this "crappy", but supported device, instead of excusing the problems by pointing towards expensive, yet not fully supported devices.
common sense, right? that's the success story of Asio4All on the Windows platform, which made a lot of (not so fortunate) music lovers happy and their lives way easier.

and from my inexperienced point of view, granted the driver compatibility (ALSA), Jack promises a similar experience in the Linux realm. and this is where my disappointment lays.

sorry for the off topic bible-length post, but I wanted to get that straight.

Alex Stone
02-07-2008, 04:45 PM
Benno,

you see, this is *my personal* problem with Linux.
not the hardware, not the software. the PEOPLE.

you were assuming, as a self-defense mechanism, that a.) I am inferior in my knowledge (stupid Windows pig) b.) I can't afford the oh-so-professional M-Audio cards. (please read the whole post with <SARCASM & IRONY> in mind)

truth is, you went on to explain the world to me......but you didn't even read my post.

the problem is not Linux (which I am using to write this post and surf the net and write letters/books with and edit pictures with and videos and to chat with to watch Google Tech Talks with.........well, lol, you get the picture), the problem is the Jack software/server.

as you can read in my last post, which was a little too whiney, I admit, you can perfectly and clearly read, that my onboard sound codec is perfectly compatible with Linux.

in fact, the latest Linux drivers provided by Realtek, for 2.6xx kernels were updated just three weeks ago - as you can see, again, it has nothing to do with evil pro-Windows developers.

so read your post again please. how was it helpful? a simple question like "hey, dude, it's probably your incompatible soundchip. do you have Linux-native drivers for it?" would be sufficient. but you went on to bash me for being unprofessional. where did I state that I started to make music last week? that I've never seen a computer in my life and stumbling upon this forum was a lucky mistake? lol

sorry man, but your Linux-snobism and passiv-agressiv attitude won't do you good (I know it, I was a Mac snob for years) - plus, it was completely unnecessary, since I already use and love Linux and my only problem with it (not even *it*, more Jack), is the ass-backwards-breathing-through-the-ears attitude towards audio.

and besides Jack, I have no problems at all with ALSA and audio. (the external, USB Audio interface - Alesis Photon X 25 Audio which I can't get to work either, even though it's recognized as a device by Jack and can be used as a Midi input in ALSA/Renoise - so it works)

I am not a complete retard (I can read and write and tie my shoelaces) and I can explain to every 6 year old kid the theory of relativity, why Mach and Tesla figured out the flaws before it was completed - no problem there.

but somehow, "this statement is false". not even Descartes and Goedel could grasp the genius it requires to set up audio in Linux - with working drivers.

I am not bashing Linux at all. I am talking about the users.

it took me 6 (!!!) hours to set up my internet account, because no, Ubuntu haven't heard of people who pay for their internet accounts, therefore require account information and passwords for access and I was told to buy a WiFi-modul for 100Ä and do some rocket science - only to find out, after reading through roughly (no kidding here) 25 threads and 200 pages of know-it-all bullshit, that it takes ONE command to set it up in the Terminal and never care about it again. (and 99% of the folks need this little info!)

and you are asking me to do the same, again. so please excuse my pissed-off tone, but when I smell bullshit, I call it. lol

in general, as a conscious decision, if I was a developer, I would care about the (literally) MILLIONS of users, who have this "crappy", but supported device, instead of excusing the problems by pointing towards expensive, yet not fully supported devices.
common sense, right? that's the success story of Asio4All on the Windows platform, which made a lot of (not so fortunate) music lovers happy and their lives way easier.

and from my inexperienced point of view, granted the driver compatibility (ALSA), Jack promises a similar experience in the Linux realm. and this is where my disappointment lays.

sorry for the off topic bible-length post, but I wanted to get that straight.

It's funny that Stargard. I'm a dummy with this stuff, have no illusions about my skills, yet Jack remains the strongest part of my setup.

Maybe i got lucky.

However, everyone has said their piece, so shall we finish this here, from all corners, and move on to more positive musings?

Alex.

Stargard
02-07-2008, 05:03 PM
It's funny that Stargard. I'm a dummy with this stuff, have no illusions about my skills, yet Jack remains the strongest part of my setup.

Maybe i got lucky.

However, everyone has said their piece, so shall we finish this here, from all corners, and move on to more positive musings?

Alex.

I would love to, if I was as lucky as you. lol
and yup, I just wanted to set this straight, instead of being accused of being a Linux basher (Linus forbid!).

ja paniemaju, it's my fault. no to harasho! lol

as you can see, even though I was less lucky than you were and doubt that I will stumble upon a solution, I still keep my humor.

enjoy your day and sorry for posting. btw, not that it was my question, but I tried out a lot of possible combinations of settings, with absolutely no success. even though the ALSA drivers work. knowing Linux (which I don't), it's probably some hardware access rights for root/normal user accounts thing.
after reading another 50 pages today, I simply give up. it's not worth it.

sorry for being negative, but yup, this "dummy" stuff can stop people from trying new things.

StudioDave
02-09-2008, 07:43 AM
Alex, here's Sean Bolton's reply. Btw, the replacement code he mentions might be this stuff from Nedko Arnaudov (it's based on work from Dmitry Baikov):

http://home.gna.org/a2jmidid/

And here's the full reply:


Hi Dave,

On Feb 4, 2008, at 3:05 PM, Dave Phillips wrote:
> ...this question comes from Alex Stone:
>
> "Can aseq2jackmidi be compiled with more than 1 midi port?"
>
> If so, could you explain where & how he'd edit the code ? If not, could you say why ?

Wow, are people still using that old code? I guess I'm not surprised -- I can't find Dmitri's replacements, and the JACK SVN branch that had the '-X' bridge functionality built-in seems to have disappeared. It seem like no one who has time and energy for the project seems to think documentation is important....

Anyway, I'm not sure what Alex is wanting to do, but if he needs to bridge two ALSA midi devices to separate JACK MIDI ports, one quick hackish way to do it is:

- compile one alsaseq2jackmidi like normal

- edit alsaseq2jackmidi.c, and change the client names in snd_seq_set_client_name() and jack_client_new() to something different

- compile that, using a different name for the binary

- run both simultaneously.

Then he'll have two ALSA seq clients to connect to his two devices, piped to separate JACK MIDI clients on the JACK side.

Hope that helps,

-Sean

StudioDave
02-09-2008, 09:08 AM
Reaper starts, Energy XT starts. audio doesn't work properly. latency is 1024 smpls and I get continues crackles and pops. the playback is asynchronous, slows down, stops, etc (read: a joke).
I'm using the on-board Realtek (?) sound device.

Have you seen this page:

http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/Intel8x0

playing the demo song through Asio4All in Windows XP with 128 smpls is no problem at all. hell, I ran a 70 tracks project with tons of VSTs on the 1.7GHz laptop (I have a Packard Bell EasyNote with 1GB of RAM and a 100GB harddrive) - no problems at all. I can play a lot of tracks at 64 smpls with no glitches, when triggering sequences via Midi keyboard (in Energy XT 1.4, which is not exactly a resources/timing friendly environment).

Stargard, I'm not playing the ass here, but I want to know: Given these excellent performance stats, why switch to Linux for making music ? It sounds to me like you have a great system, and if it were me I wouldn't bother changing anything, least of all my OS.

I think I could live with 256 smpls, even though I would prefer 128. Energy XT2, Linux version - no go at all.

Have you corresponded with Jorgen Aase about this problem ? I'm sure he'd like to know about any problems you've encountered with his software.

downloaded a demo of Renoise for Linux. the internal Alsa (?) drivers work, Jack, no go.

I'm using Renoise for Linux here, with JACK. Btw, there are no "internal" ALSA drivers in Renoise, it uses whatever your system has provided (ALSA, OSS, JACK).

Please be sure to tell Taktik and the Renoise devs about *any* problems you have with their demo. They want to deliver a perfectly working product, and they need the input from users to do so.

I think the problem is Jack, but even when using the recommended settings (the therm "recommended" seems to differ completely from thread to thread lol), Jack won't start properly, often shuts down.

Indeed, "recommended" settings are card-specific and may in fact vary between versions of the same card.

At the risk of sounding like a parrott, have you written to the JACK devs concerning your difficulties ? Also, be sure to Google for "JACK Realtek problem" and "ALSA Realtek problem".

It sounds like you might have a bad setting somewhere. Do you use QJackCtl to start JACK ? If so, check the settings and see what you have for sample rate and the periods/buffer size. Try 3 for the buffer value and see if that helps.

Your post brings up a variety of interesting topics, e.g. user expectations, distro-specific ALSA problems, and the overall lack of information on getting the most performance from on-board audio chipsets, particularly with JACK.

As I'm sure you're aware, the kernel audio drivers in Linux come from the ALSA team. Windows users get the drivers from the device manufacturers, who may or may not be forthcoming with the necessary specs for the Linux devs. They may even furnish incomplete specs (yes, that happens), leaving Linux users with less-than-complete driver support.

Finally, I must remind all readers of this thread that the Cockos forums may not always be the best place to find Linux-specific help. For example, I don't run Ubuntu, and since each distro does things in their own (potentially irritating) way it's possible that I would be unable to help you with your problems until I know more about how Ubuntu does things. While Alex, Benno, and myself are willing to assist as much as we can, we are not ALSA or JACK devs nor are we Linux distro maintainers. We're mostly musicians, like yourselves, with limited time and energies, which is why I drop out of any thread that devolves to personal affronts and unhelpful commentary. Hopefully this message itself has avoided such de-evolution.

HTH,

dp

Added: My responses always seem so pedantic when I re-read them. I need to find some "lighten-up" buzzer that'll let me know when I'm dorking out. Sorry about that, Stargard, and I want to emphasize that I'll gladly help, though as you can tell, a lot of what I do is simply point people in a direction, then off they go.

You can also write to me directly, via private message here or dave@linux-sound.org.

spmbtng
02-09-2008, 10:50 AM
Reaper starts, Energy XT starts. audio doesn't work properly. latency is 1024 smpls and I get continues crackles and pops. the playback is asynchronous, slows down, stops, etc (read: a joke).
I'm using the on-board Realtek (?) sound device.

...

week four of Linux audio experiment and Bill Gates starts to look like a savior. lol

Stargard,

Don't know how old you are but you got alot to learn. Your whinny post won't get you much help. I suppose you should try Vista or whatever the latest bones that Redomnd throws on the floor for you and stay with it, and LOL with your new toy.

If you took the time to read though this whole thread, you can learn a lot from Alex anh his attitue and grace in asking for help. Maybe because he works with Ochestra, patching together bits and pieces out of the blue sky and make all those things work harmoniously well together, and deal with the details like nuances, tempo, pace, emphasis... and most importantly he is not content with the status quo, because he knows there are many more great things waiting to be discovered just by trying things out. That seems to be his philosophy in life and that's also how he approach the Linux, as well as music.

Like Alex, I struggled with years of artificial limitations by what the software companies decide to do, Again, just like Alex, I want to tweak, to tinker, to push the envelope because I know what I want to do is, or should be possible most of the time. Yet the software and OS that I used simply won't allow that. Now-a-day, they have all kind of tricks up their sleeves to extract more money for features rather than allowing me to use all the resources that my computer hardwares are capable of. Namely, different Windows "editions" with different "limitations" for different prices to let me use the hardware I already paid for. Greed is the word. No I don't expect anything and everything for free if it makes sense. Anyway, free is even better when it is purposely intended -- definitely not the same as in stealing.

With Linux, the software developers are more interested in getting the most out of the hardware and other software resources availabe to themselves first and to other users, too. Most of the info they, the developers, have are bit and pieces of scraps they have to painstakingly gather by themselves with the help of others along the way. Just like Alex trying to extract all the different instrument expressiveness of each instrument at the right moment for ochestral pieces. I'm sure he doesn't throw a bunch of notes in there full-volume by all instruments all at once and expect a magical musical segment out of it. Just as most everything else in life, good things are often the hardest choices you have to make plus you have to continually work at it.

I just found this thread a few days ago and decided to take the time to read through the whole thing, hopefully I can learn a thing or two from Alex's "journey" and I have learned a bit. His view and approach posted here are in stark contrast to your post, if you know what I mean -- it's the attitude.

There were a few earlier posts speculating about why hardware makers don't have Linux drivers. My take (pure speculation) on that subject is that most harware companies barely know Windows, if you have experience the kind of bugs and BSODs and the hard-coded limits that you may run into. Linux is even worse because there are so many distos and for each distro there are so many ways to configure things, it is a configuration nightmare for most people. Most companies don't have any competent Linux users, ket alone Linux developers unless they are willing to plan for, and pay for that. Mind you, tt is a struggle to get info from the hardware companies because they themselves don't have that info either. Most of the infor are in the developers' head, most of the design documents are obsoleted, or outdated because of the harware and firmware bugs that creep in there along the development and manufacturing process. The driver software developers have the unplesant tasks of testing the hardware and find out all kind or problems along the way and the release date is near so they have to decide to hard-code certain limits in there to get around the current problems. Hopefully by the time of the next release cycle, they may get lucky and solve some of those problems in software, or new hardware tweaks (slight redesign, or re-do). Imagine dealing with similar sencario and dozens of different Linux distros out there. I have enough problem configuring and trying on just one distribution. There are so many ways to configure things in combination with other hardware and software. It is not easy, nor simple as some folks may assume. And the Linux users are the people to tinker and tweak and are willing try to push the limits of their harware and software resources.

Just saw thist collection of Linux/Unix cheatsheats. But wait for your turn, maybe I should take a look first, then you can try ;-)

http://www.scottklarr.com/topic/115/linux-unix-cheat-sheets---the-ultimate-collection/

I'm just sharing my perspective on how I see things. Best of luck to everyone with their Linux boxen... Go for it, and savor the "ah ha" moments. Those are the best, aren't they? Life's simple pleasures are right in front of us if we know how to appreciate them.

Jimmy

Alex Stone
02-09-2008, 11:31 AM
Alex, here's Sean Bolton's reply. Btw, the replacement code he mentions might be this stuff from Nedko Arnaudov (it's based on work from Dmitry Baikov):

http://home.gna.org/a2jmidid/

And here's the full reply:


Hi Dave,

On Feb 4, 2008, at 3:05 PM, Dave Phillips wrote:
> ...this question comes from Alex Stone:
>
> "Can aseq2jackmidi be compiled with more than 1 midi port?"
>
> If so, could you explain where & how he'd edit the code ? If not, could you say why ?

Wow, are people still using that old code? I guess I'm not surprised -- I can't find Dmitri's replacements, and the JACK SVN branch that had the '-X' bridge functionality built-in seems to have disappeared. It seem like no one who has time and energy for the project seems to think documentation is important....

Anyway, I'm not sure what Alex is wanting to do, but if he needs to bridge two ALSA midi devices to separate JACK MIDI ports, one quick hackish way to do it is:

- compile one alsaseq2jackmidi like normal

- edit alsaseq2jackmidi.c, and change the client names in snd_seq_set_client_name() and jack_client_new() to something different

- compile that, using a different name for the binary

- run both simultaneously.

Then he'll have two ALSA seq clients to connect to his two devices, piped to separate JACK MIDI clients on the JACK side.

Hope that helps,

-Sean

Dave, thanks very much for this. I went to the url listed, D/l the source, and it compiled just fine, and appeared in jack.

I'm now mulling over the idea of creating a number of this, each labeled as a specific port name relevent to the specific task. and a thorough coincidence that you responded with this as Jack took another step forward with their midi implementation! Things are progressing well!

I ask if you can thank Sean on my behalf, for his response, and the information. I will attempt his hack for the exercise of doing it, and in the process possibly learn something.

Alex.

A wonderful journey full of danger, thrills, and bleeding edge excitement continues.....!

Alex Stone
02-09-2008, 11:39 AM
Stargard,

Don't know how old you are but you got alot to learn. Your whinny post won't get you much help. I suppose you should try Vista or whatever the latest bones that Redomnd throws on the floor for you and stay with it, and LOL with your new toy.

If you took the time to read though this whole thread, you can learn a lot from Alex anh his attitue and grace in asking for help. Maybe because he works with Ochestra, patching together bits and pieces out of the blue sky and make all those things work harmoniously well together, and deal with the details like nuances, tempo, pace, emphasis... and most importantly he is not content with the status quo, because he knows there are many more great things waiting to be discovered just by trying things out. That seems to be his philosophy in life and that's also how he approach the Linux, as well as music.

Like Alex, I struggled with years of artificial limitations by what the software companies decide to do, Again, just like Alex, I want to tweak, to tinker, to push the envelope because I know what I want to do is, or should be possible most of the time. Yet the software and OS that I used simply won't allow that. Now-a-day, they have all kind of tricks up their sleeves to extract more money for features rather than allowing me to use all the resources that my computer hardwares are capable of. Namely, different Windows "editions" with different "limitations" for different prices to let me use the hardware I already paid for. Greed is the word. No I don't expect anything and everything for free if it makes sense. Anyway, free is even better when it is purposely intended -- definitely not the same as in stealing.

With Linux, the software developers are more interested in getting the most out of the hardware and other software resources availabe to themselves first and to other users, too. Most of the info they, the developers, have are bit and pieces of scraps they have to painstakingly gather by themselves with the help of others along the way. Just like Alex trying to extract all the different instrument expressiveness of each instrument at the right moment for ochestral pieces. I'm sure he doesn't throw a bunch of notes in there full-volume by all instruments all at once and expect a magical musical segment out of it. Just as most everything else in life, good things are often the hardest choices you have to make plus you have to continually work at it.

I just found this thread a few days ago and decided to take the time to read through the whole thing, hopefully I can learn a thing or two from Alex's "journey" and I have learned a bit. His view and approach posted here are in stark contrast to your post, if you know what I mean -- it's the attitude.

There were a few earlier posts speculating about why hardware makers don't have Linux drivers. My take (pure speculation) on that subject is that most harware companies barely know Windows, if you have experience the kind of bugs and BSODs and the hard-coded limits that you may run into. Linux is even worse because there are so many distos and for each distro there are so many ways to configure things, it is a configuration nightmare for most people. Most companies don't have any competent Linux users, ket alone Linux developers unless they are willing to plan for, and pay for that. Mind you, tt is a struggle to get info from the hardware companies because they themselves don't have that info either. Most of the infor are in the developers' head, most of the design documents are obsoleted, or outdated because of the harware and firmware bugs that creep in there along the development and manufacturing process. The driver software developers have the unplesant tasks of testing the hardware and find out all kind or problems along the way and the release date is near so they have to decide to hard-code certain limits in there to get around the current problems. Hopefully by the time of the next release cycle, they may get lucky and solve some of those problems in software, or new hardware tweaks (slight redesign, or re-do). Imagine dealing with similar sencario and dozens of different Linux distros out there. I have enough problem configuring and trying on just one distribution. There are so many ways to configure things in combination with other hardware and software. It is not easy, nor simple as some folks may assume. And the Linux users are the people to tinker and tweak and are willing try to push the limits of their harware and software resources.

Just saw thist collection of Linux/Unix cheatsheats. But wait for your turn, maybe I should take a look first, then you can try ;-)

http://www.scottklarr.com/topic/115/linux-unix-cheat-sheets---the-ultimate-collection/

I'm just sharing my perspective on how I see things. Best of luck to everyone with their Linux boxen... Go for it, and savor the "ah ha" moments. Those are the best, aren't they? Life's simple pleasures are right in front of us if we know how to appreciate them.

Jimmy

Jimmy, thanks very much for your contribution, and welcome to the reaper forum. You made some salient points in your thoroughly interesting post, and i was bemused about easy it seems to be, to read where i'm coming from! :)

I wish you well, and hope that you will add to the contributions here at 'Reaper linux central', and share your linux/reaper experiences, questions, and challenges. We're sailing out on the open reaper/linux/wine sea here, with plenty of wind in the sail, with the occasional reef to keep us on our toes!

Alex.

Alex Stone
02-09-2008, 03:35 PM
Dave,
the aj2 code works fine.
Thanks mate.

Alex.

lowkey
02-10-2008, 07:15 AM
"...hope that the devs at wine will build a 64bit version..."

This might be useful to you Dude :) ...

http://forums.suselinuxsupport.de/lofiversion/index.php/t64150.html

spmbtng
02-10-2008, 09:23 AM
Jimmy, thanks very much for your contribution, and welcome to the reaper forum. You made some salient points in your thoroughly interesting post, and i was bemused about easy it seems to be, to read where i'm coming from! :)

I wish you well, and hope that you will add to the contributions here at 'Reaper linux central', and share your linux/reaper experiences, questions, and challenges. We're sailing out on the open reaper/linux/wine sea here, with plenty of wind in the sail, with the occasional reef to keep us on our toes!

Alex.





Thanks Alex for everything here. I do appreciate the info you share here for others to read, as well as many positive contributions people have pitched in to help others. Actually, that's the spirits of the open source ideas. I mean the spirits, because there are several different interpretation and preferences about those ideas.

I have to admit I haven't even tried Reaper, I prefer to avoid using wine as much as I can. My audio and midi usage is fairly light so far. I only started using midi since I'm learning the keyboard on my own.

I was lightly exposed to the Sun radiation (Sun OS, predecessor of Sun Solaris) over 20 years ago. I have used Linx exclusively for some 3-4 years, prior to that it took me another 3-4 years to of using Linux and struggle trying to quit using Windows but some of my older documents were not readily read by Linux apps at the time. I made a point of converting the data I nedded over to Linux. As for data that I didn't need for a few years, I try to decide which data I may need them at all (to convert those), or just keep the in the archive as is. It was tough to kick that habit, the Windows addiction.

Anyway, let me share some more info for those adventureous ones for your Linux journey. Hope some of you can benefit from this.

!!! Be careful !!! Making a mistake can potentially wipe out your hard drive data, or data in some disk partitions. So do read carefully what I say here, it is from my own (sometimes agonizing) experience.

With Linux and Grub (or other boot loaders), you can boot from several hard-drive partitions. A few of those partitions (of 6-10 GB in size for my live-CD installs, live-DVD may need more space) are for full instalation of different Linux distro, or different versions of the same distro. This is called multi-boot setup. The rest are for data so you can use partitions of any size, have those mounted and you can access them when you boot up. I also have one small partition at the end of the hard drive for swap space. General recommended swap-space size is about 2-times your RAM memory size.

Some of you worried of messing up your perfectly working Linux setup. The good news is you can install multiple copies of Linux on the same hard drive (or on differnt hard drive, a bit more complicated). Just use a completely different partition for them. I really mean "completely", even /home directory, so that even if you messed up royally in one of those installation, it would not and should not affect the other "complete" installations. Of course the data partitions can be mounted and accessed by each of those Linux installation.

When I was looking around for a new OS, I looked at FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, several Linux distros. I learned that I could have a multi-boot setup with Linux. I read about the BSDs disk partitioning scheems but never actually made the time to try those out to see if I can have multiple installation of the same BSD flavor.

Although, a word of caution here. I have personally accidentally wiped out a disk partion by mistake, and it is not a pleasant thing to do to yourself, Good thing was that I was working solely on a spare drive, without access to my main working hard drive when that happened. So if you decide to want to try, I suppose you could use and old, spare computer to play with this kind of setup with just one physical hard drive. Then gradually add a second or third hard drive as you learn. If you don't have a spare computer to work with, at least use a spare old hard drive, or spare new hard drive will do :-) But when you plug in that "experimental hard drive", make sure you unplug or remove your main hard drive first so you won't accidentally do any thing to mess up to your good installation. It is like trying a new engine on a car, it is much better if you have and work on a spare car, rather than working with your only car.

Some older Unix/Linux books recommend having one partition to be mounted as /home so when you upgrade you just wipe out your old installation and all your files in /home are saved. But most of those were written for the days when there was only one OS installed, disk space was still rather expensive. So before an upgrade, people had to backup everything from the existing system. And need all the hard drive space for the new upgraded OS. The /home directory holds all the destop and application preferences which could be very different for diferent distributions, and I don't want to mess with those. I have at times messes up my X-window desktop so bad that, that particular installation didn't let me login to the GUI (can still use the text consoles). The fastest way for me to get going was to have to reinstall, or restore from backup. Re-install may seem faster, but you still have to download and install some more software that you use and configure those again. Restore may be better if you want to get back to finish whatever task you were in the midst of. Those are the time that I appreciate having 1-2 stand-by (already preconfigured) installations on other partitions -- these are really the fastet way to get going again and buy time to redo the messed up partition. Generally, even after I have a new installation completely customize, I the current installation partition around as a stand-by, several different stand-by's actually. Only wipe out the olderst installation if I want to reclaim the partition disk space. Of course I had to make sure to save any data I wanted from that oldest partition first.

You have been warned!!! Don't blame me for any damage you may do to your data when trying any of this stuff ;-)

This can potentially take many weeks or months of experimenting to understand and appreciate the joy of freedom that Grub (or other boot managers) and Linux allow us to do just in this particular scenario.

Jimmy

Stargard
02-10-2008, 12:42 PM
Stargard, I'm not playing the ass here, but I want to know: Given these excellent performance stats, why switch to Linux for making music ? It sounds to me like you have a great system, and if it were me I wouldn't bother changing anything, least of all my OS.

Dave,

first of all, thanks for taking your time.

that's the kind of "grown up" response I was expecting to get.

Have you corresponded with Jorgen Aase about this problem ? I'm sure he'd like to know about any problems you've encountered with his software.

I mentioned XT2, because it is a "native Linux" project. from what I understand, people tend to use XT2 Win version under Wine due to some issues.

I'm using Renoise for Linux here, with JACK. Btw, there are no "internal" ALSA drivers in Renoise, it uses whatever your system has provided (ALSA, OSS, JACK).

yup, I know. sorry for the ambiguous message. what I was saying is, that Wine can start Jack. I've installed XT1 under Wine. it works too (some crackles due to latency issues/not optimal settings - but that is my fault, read: lack of knowledge).

as I've mentioned before, Reaper's routine works - following W00T's tutorial, the installation process was flawless, everything works - crackles/pops due to settings, etc...

but it works EVERY time.

It sounds like you might have a bad setting somewhere. Do you use QJackCtl to start JACK ? If so, check the settings and see what you have for sample rate and the periods/buffer size. Try 3 for the buffer value and see if that helps.

I have tried all combinations of settings...........but more on that later.

Your post brings up a variety of interesting topics, e.g. user expectations, distro-specific ALSA problems, and the overall lack of information on getting the most performance from on-board audio chipsets, particularly with JACK.

yes. user expectations are kind of high in 2008. lol
I am not a newbie, but a person who started singing at the age of 6 (in a band, not in "private") and been involved with electronic music production since the age of 12 - Ataris, Amigas, DOS, Mac, Windows, etc...

from Notator through Fasttracker to Reaper so to speak. lol
all with their specific benefits and problems (can't think of a problem I had with Atari though lol)

We're mostly musicians, like yourselves, with limited time and energies, which is why I drop out of any thread that devolves to personal affronts and unhelpful commentary. Hopefully this message itself has avoided such de-evolution.

I understand that. and looking back, I reacted to Benno's post (which was a misunderstanding on his site, which turned into an uncalled for response from my point of view) the wrong way.

.............though as you can tell, a lot of what I do is simply point people in a direction, then off they go.

You can also write to me directly, via private message here or dave@linux-sound.org.

thanks very much again.

this is exactly what I was coming here for: being pointed into the right direction. I saw a very interesting talk on Google regarding the paradox of choice and why less is almost always more - the Linux world is still a huge jungle for me, so I expected to be pointed towards the "right" direction and that's what you did, so thanks again.

P.S.: as it turns out, the Jack server has problems with my real-time kernel. when I use the standard Jack mode under the realtime-kernel, the thing works (still clicks and pops, but at least it starts every time). so as I kind of expected, there must be some access problems, because the real-time mode can't be started. (the standard mode is in the user directories, while the jackd-realtime modes appear without "the usr/xxxx/jack d" thingy - prolly some root access problem? I have no idea, but it seems like it)

I was able to start Renoise in this combination. cracks/pops, sure, but now it at least starts and remains open - which didn't work. no problem with audio output (see cracks/pops) - but at least routing/audio output ain't the problem here. that's a big step forward, as now I only have to find out what causes the buffer related problems - instead of not being able to start "troubleshooting" at all. so thanks again!!!

Stargard
02-10-2008, 01:00 PM
Stargard,

Don't know how old you are but you got alot to learn. Your whinny post won't get you much help. I suppose you should try Vista or whatever the latest bones that Redomnd throws on the floor for you and stay with it, and LOL with your new toy.

Sir, you have a lot to learn, too.

for example, understanding sarcasm and all that fun stuff.

I am simply doing what you claim to be - being open minded. by going where I never went before. despite the opposition (third post during this conversation) and assumptions.

if I was a troll who wants "free" handed on a silver plate and being spoon fed, I wouldn't have spent almost 100k on equipment right after high school. that was 10 years ago.

you fall into your own trap, of assuming a lot, extrapolating non-existence evidence, throwing in some anti-Microsuckz polemics and..........not making a point.

but it's ok, as an analogy, people with your mind set say that Reaper sucks, because it doesn't cost as much as a Pro Tools rig.
or claim, that I would be better off with Vista, because I can't get Jack to run the way supposed to, despite loving Linux? (what kinda logic is that anyway?)

but as Dave said, this is not a place for personal attacks or "who got bigger balls"-contests and this is in no way what my first post intended to be (since you cared to read it, but didn't care to look for the underlying message).

if you feel like teaching me about life and stuff, please use the PM function. unless you are a follower of Hegel that is, which your post indicates.

and yes, read this post with sarcasm & irony in mind.

Dave did it and really helped me with the info he provided.

peace and prosperity,
Stargard

404NotFound
02-10-2008, 01:24 PM
P.S.: as it turns out, the Jack server has problems with my real-time kernel. when I use the standard Jack mode under the realtime-kernel, the thing works (still clicks and pops, but at least it starts every time). so as I kind of expected, there must be some access problems, because the real-time mode can't be started. (the standard mode is in the user directories, while the jackd-realtime modes appear without "the usr/xxxx/jack d" thingy - prolly some root access problem? I have no idea, but it seems like it)

Just for clarification:

You have to start Jack via the jackd command. The jackd-realtime command is obsolete and doesn't even exist anymore in some Jack packages. Here's how the Jack settings should look like:

Alex Stone
02-10-2008, 03:28 PM
While Reaper is growing fast, and given the desire for a 'control room' of sorts, i thought i'd put some pics up of a linux programme i found, that i'm having a lot of fun with.

http://www.codingteam.net/livemix-down_fr.html

There's the link for the source code, but it's also available in ubuntu repository.

This is Livemix.

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/22404/Screenshota.png

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/22405/Screenshota-1.png

As you can see, it closely resembles a control surface, and each knob and button is KC configurable. (including, i'm pleased to say, ccmidi, which means the second midi kbd gets a shot at the title, as a control surface.)

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/22410/Screenshot-3.png

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/22411/Screenshot-4.png


More in the next post to come....

Alex Stone
02-10-2008, 03:32 PM
http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/22412/Screenshot-5.png

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/22414/Screenshot-6.png

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/22416/Screenshot-7.png

The last shot is Jack, showing how easy it is to port virtually anything, including Reaper into Livemix.
I'll play some more with this, and do more detailed appraisal.


Alex...

Charles
02-10-2008, 05:00 PM
Hi

I am new to this very long discussion, and my curiosity is getting the better of me. I plan on getting a intel quad core soon, and my new machine will be set up primarily for vsti, midi, sampling orchestral emulation etc.

Will linux bring me better results?

I must admit i would love to break free from Microsoft

Cheers

Alex Stone
02-11-2008, 02:18 AM
Hi

I am new to this very long discussion, and my curiosity is getting the better of me. I plan on getting a intel quad core soon, and my new machine will be set up primarily for vsti, midi, sampling orchestral emulation etc.

Will linux bring me better results?


I must admit i would love to break free from Microsoft

Cheers

Hello Charles!

Man, this is a big question, hehe.

Which way to jump?
My first response is to dual boot.That is, install Win first, then a seperate partition for Linux. There's quite a few doing this, and seem to be successful in the process. The 'best' of both worlds, depending on your perspective.

So what are the advantages and disadvantages?
This question is subjective, depending on the user experience, so please take the following as my own opinion, not neccessarily a view from all.

Linux is portable. No, not portable (although it is), but able to intereact with an virtually unlimited number of ports. As an orchestral writer, this was important to me, and one of the main reasons i jumped into the good ship Tux. With some research, study, and a fierce, relentless, determination, i compiled, spoke to devs, watched and appreciated their enthusiastic participation in helping me go forwared, and tried many different settings until i got what i wanted. More than enough ports to stream audio and midi from one programme to another, and out to the hardware. Of all the enthusiastic discoveries i made, this one counted the most. It meant no juggling of resource, and i gather from your post, you're looking for the same. In Win, i was always reliant on maple midi, midi yoke, virtual audio cables, etc., to do something the OS wouldn't. And predominately, and by no means a poor reflection on the devs of those utilities, i found myself juggling resource, either sharing midi and audio ports, or turning vstis on and off, according to HW resource and response. (or lack of it).
It's a fairly well known fact, that a tuned linux system will do far better with the same resource, than a tuned Win system. but there is a price for this, and that's the effort required of the user to learn a bit, and frankly, most users want the Win plug and play ease of install. Linux is far more mainstream than it was, but you still need to do more to set it up, than you would in comparison, with Win, or Mac.

In the last three months, there's been a massive jump forward in Linux programme, and utility development. and i mean massive. Barely 3 months ago, i was rather optimistic that Linux would provide MORE of what i wanted, and required, than Win could. Now, I continue to be surprised at the maturity that has taken place in many programmes and utilities i use, none more than the mighty JACK, a wonderful solution to tight audio/midi sync, and a real practical solution to my need of many ports. It's terrific, and so are the devs. The correspondence i've exchanged with Stephane and the team at Jack, and Jackdmp inspires me to continue this journey with confidence. They continue to press forward for the 'Ultimate' Sound server, and i think i'll be even further forward as a result. I couldn't do this in Win., and having looked at the new Vista, it's not going to happen anytime soon. Us muso's simply aren't important, or numerous enough, to influence MS in favour of more practical tools, and framework that we can use. One only has to see the digital refugees tramping the exhausting road of perdition away from the Vista village back to XP, or Linux to know where this going, and it's not in our direction.

Ultimately, it's for you to decide. Personally, i'd never switch back. As i learn more about Linux, so i'm more inclined to stick with it. The interaction between devs and users is excellent, remarkably similar to the dev/user relationship here at Reaper central.
Reaper runs fine in Wine for me, and in my experience, runs as well and better than it does in Win.

Not all orchestral VSTi's run in Wine. And this may well be a decider against going Linux for you. I switched to the fabulous Linuxsampler (A good decision that i continue to trumpet as one of my finest alongside going with Reaper, lol), and was willing to sacrifice the daily use of two orchestral VSTi's in the process. Depends on your sample library collection, workflow, etc..

There is a list of soundcard drivers at Alsa, that work in Linux. Be aware that the list is fairly short, and HW manufacturers continue, in their blind superstition and fear to resist the huge potential of writing decent drivers (modules in linux parlance) for Linux.
Some exceptions to this are RME, MAudio, and a few others. Not all of every product in a range is supported, so you'll need to do some homework, if you choose to go Linux. Google is your friend here, but so are we, here in the dusty, smoke filled rooms of the Reaper linux department. :) This might be the basement, but it's friendly and non politically correct, lol. (And we encourage pizza deliveries... :) )

There are long established programmes in Win that have some degree of maturity. Hardly surprising, given the near monopoly that Win has had for many years. But there are good alternatives in Linux too, and you only have to go up a post or two, to see one of them, Livemix. So far so good with this programme, and it looks very promising.

If you want to go total Linux, wbe aware that Linux is primarily modular in nature, and you may have two or three programmes to do the job of an equivalent in Win. I don't have a problem with this at all, but some may feel more comfortable with the 'one size fits all' approach.

We are, after all, writing and making music. And we have a variety of tools available to us. Whether your choice is Linux, Win, Mac, or one of the other OS's, (Atari, FreeBSD), you have the choice depending on your own experiences and workflow.

Good Luck, and if you decide on 'kissing the penguin', then you'll get plenty of help here, and there is a wealth of information available on the interlink.

Alex.

:)

Charles
02-11-2008, 03:05 AM
Hi Alex

Thanks very much for your reply,a lot to think about, and you have really set me thinking that the exploration into linux will be a rewarding one.

Cheers

lowkey
02-11-2008, 06:10 AM
/me hands out pizza's :)


I dont know if I've posted this link before...

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

...on this thread but it's well worth reading if your thinking of trying Linux. As Alex said the growth of music app's for Linux is going very quickly. Here's two gems Ive discovered on the waves :D

Bristol:

I love old synth's and luckily for me the developer of Bristol...

http://bristol.sourceforge.net/index.html

loves them too. It's roughly equivalent to Native instrument's line up and well worth checking out.

Mixxx:

If you love turntablism you'll love this...

http://mixxx.sourceforge.net/

It's like Final Scratch. There are version's for Window's, Mac and Linux.


Dib's on the last slice :P

StudioDave
02-11-2008, 07:00 AM
I dont know if I've posted this link before...

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm


Wow, I owe you one for that link, lowkey. A great read, one that should be recommended whenever a new user joins the ranks (or is even thinking about it). Very well written, with a nice touch of humor combined with a serious understanding of the problems involved.

A great link, thanks again.

As Alex said the growth of music app's for Linux is going very quickly. Here's two gems Ive discovered on the waves :D

Bristol:


Yep, Bristol's quite nice. Be sure to check out amSynth too, it's a simpler synth but one of my favorites to program.

http://amsynthe.sourceforge.net/amSynth/


Mixxx:


You might also like Alex Koenig's very cool terminatorX :

http://terminatorx.org/

More fun with virtual vinyl. :)

Remember, via JACK these apps will connect to and work with Reaper. Ah, such possibilities... !

Btw, I wouldn't say that the Linux audio software armory has grown significantly in numbers recently. However, the Linux audio infrastructure has improved steadily and impressively, and I'd certainly agree that it's starting to show up on more radar than in previous years. Most of the apps folks are enthusing about here have been in development for quite some time. See this site for a currently incomplete guide to other goodies :

http://linux-sound.org

(Shameless self-promotion: Yes, it's my site.)

Dib's on the last slice :P

Sorry, man, it's gone. My dawg ate it. He's a bad dawg. ;)

Alex Stone
02-11-2008, 07:49 AM
Wow, I owe you one for that link, lowkey. A great read, one that should be recommended whenever a new user joins the ranks (or is even thinking about it). Very well written, with a nice touch of humor combined with a serious understanding of the problems involved.

A great link, thanks again.



Yep, Bristol's quite nice. Be sure to check out amSynth too, it's a simpler synth but one of my favorites to program.

http://amsynthe.sourceforge.net/amSynth/



You might also like Alex Koenig's very cool terminatorX :

http://terminatorx.org/

More fun with virtual vinyl. :)

Remember, via JACK these apps will connect to and work with Reaper. Ah, such possibilities... !

Btw, I wouldn't say that the Linux audio software armory has grown significantly in numbers recently. However, the Linux audio infrastructure has improved steadily and impressively, and I'd certainly agree that it's starting to show up on more radar than in previous years. Most of the apps folks are enthusing about here have been in development for quite some time. See this site for a currently incomplete guide to other goodies :

http://linux-sound.org

(Shameless self-promotion: Yes, it's my site.)



Sorry, man, it's gone. My dawg ate it. He's a bad dawg. ;)

Dave, Lowkey, thanks for the links fellas. More to peruse!

:)

Alex.

Alex Stone
02-11-2008, 08:38 AM
Hi Alex

Thanks very much for your reply,a lot to think about, and you have really set me thinking that the exploration into linux will be a rewarding one.

Cheers

Charles, you are most welcome.

Alex.

spmbtng
02-11-2008, 03:26 PM
Hi

I am new to this very long discussion, and my curiosity is getting the better of me. I plan on getting a intel quad core soon, and my new machine will be set up primarily for vsti, midi, sampling orchestral emulation etc.

Will linux bring me better results?

I must admit i would love to break free from Microsoft

Cheers

Hi Charles,

You don't really need new harware to try Linux. Also, watch out when buying new hardware, do some research for reports of whether it is compatible, or functioning well with Linux before you buy it. Some of those new stuff may not have fully working Linux drivers yet (or ever!!!) and you may feel disgusted and go back to Windows because that's the only thing it would work with. Others have known to move on by returning, or re-selling those things (probably for a loss) and try to buy some other Linux compatible hardware. Web search is a wonderful tool here.

I saw the "Linux is not Windows" link here (a few messages above), it does make some very good points. Here it is again:

http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

Also know that some Windows-only apps may never work in Linux, even with Wine. So be prepare for that. If need to, ask other linux users for possible alternative apps if you must have certain functions or requirements. Those apps will likely work totally different, too.

Realistically, I'd say don't expect miracles or you may well be disappointed. At times Linux will require a lot of work. You can join Alex view point here, expect a journey, rather than a one time switch over. Definitely, there will be some good days, there will be some bad ones. There will be lots of differences, don't expect Linux transition to be easy or work exactly like windows.

Alex might be going the same direction as you are for specific type of music resources and/or setup. As Alex mentioned, dual-boot (or multi-boot) might be better to test the water. There are much different philosphy in software designs from the Unix/BSD/Linux crowd than Windows.

Traditionally, many Linux apps are small, to the point, concentrate on doing one or two specific things really well, and interact with other apps externally as needed to get real work done. For example, qjackctl/jackd itself doesn't do anything useful, at all!!! But jackd is designed to connect (like mixers, midi patch bay for) other audio and midi apps really well. The jackd command has mumerous options, most people use qjackctl (GUI) to invoke jackd. Most common command line tools will work separately just fine, and can work very well together, if you learn how to do it.

There are 64-bit distros, and 32-bit distros. Right now, there may still be some problems of 64-bit distro working with 32-bit oriented things like some win32 apps in wine. To start out, 32-bit distro may be better so you won't run into those hard to diagnosed 32-bit to 64-bit (in)compatibilities. If you have time, you can try both ;-)

As you look to use music apps, I recommend that you start with a music oriented distro like Musix, Studio64, Ubuntu Studio (same family, not the same as Ubuntu, Kbuntu, Xbuntu)... Studio64 has 64-bit, and 32-bit live-CDs. Do a search for "live cd linux" (look for FrozenTech's list), or poke around at distrowatch.com for some links for possibly other choices.

Music oriented distros generally have Real-Time kernel, preconfigured security and priority (/etc/security/limits.conf), launching music apps in proper orders and mostly pre-configured for you alredy. It may sound simple, but it can take ages trying do do all those from scratch by yourself, not having known how each of those things work together. I had heard of JACK for music apps for quite sometime but didn't know how to get it to work, and I didn't yet make time to search the web or ask somewhere. Until I tried Musix live-CD, it was the "ah ha" moments, it starts to come together. Now I use other Linux distro and get the apps to work just fine.

It is better to choose a distro based on (derived from, but is still compatible with) a popular base-distro (family) like Debian, Ubuntu, or others. I have not tried Fedora in a few years, have never tried SUSE, Slackware distros or their derivatives -- don't have time. You should stay within that base-distro, since most of the system admin commands, configuration file names and locations will be common within such family. Flip flop between different families of distros and you may get distracted (or confused) by having to learn a bunch more commands, different system configuration locations (in /etc directory tree) without improved productivity or proficiency. As a side note, Ubuntu family made their own copy (forked out) of what Debian does so well, so most system admin commands are (still) pretty much the same, but software packages are not compatible (can't install Ubuntu packages in Debian or vice versa). Not much different than driver incompatibilities between Windows versions.

A few folks here use some distros from the Ubuntu family (including music oriented Ubuntu Studio). I have not tried any Ubuntu distros (not enough time in the day). Some debian compatible distros are Musix, Studio64, Sidux, Kanotix, Knoppix. If some apps or tools work in one Linux distro, it should work in most other common distros but may require some work (may require compiling, or using already-compiled binary packages for your distro) because of dependencies (required cartain software libraries versions, or other application software versions).

Thought I should give you an idea of what's ahead, instead of simply cheering you on to your new journey.

Jimmy

lowkey
02-12-2008, 07:16 AM
"Remember, via JACK these apps will connect to and work with Reaper. Ah, such possibilities... !"

lol JACK is starting to affect my sleeping patterns :D

Your site kicks ass StudioDave. Thank you for putting effort into compiling all that info in one place. Props Dude :)

lowkey
02-12-2008, 07:21 AM
Cool post Jimmy :)

Alex Stone
02-13-2008, 06:09 AM
"Remember, via JACK these apps will connect to and work with Reaper. Ah, such possibilities... !"

lol JACK is starting to affect my sleeping patterns :D

Your site kicks ass StudioDave. Thank you for putting effort into compiling all that info in one place. Props Dude :)

Jack really is outstanding, and something other OS's would do well to consider building in.
Very little of what i've achieved so far would be possible without this fine software utility. It's at the hub of "Parchment Studios."

:)

Alex.

norbury brook
02-13-2008, 08:04 AM
Hi alex,

I'm still following this thread like a soap opera! I have my own parallel linux one going on here too, I've struggled with graphics drivers now for a week and realised that the ATI drivers wont work with a real time kernel,so I'm shafted now as I cant get a decent GUI,well i can but not with a RT Kernel :-(

I'm still wondering though, wouldn't a native linux music app be a better bet? wine is an emulation layed that does have a performance hit so all things considered Reaper will give better performance from XP than Linux under wine,and, as I stated somewhere else, one of the big reasons for going to linux is to get better performance from a 'tuned' OS




MC

daverich
02-13-2008, 09:43 AM
Hi alex,

I'm still following this thread like a soap opera! I have my own parallel linux one going on here too, I've struggled with graphics drivers now for a week and realised that the ATI drivers wont work with a real time kernel,so I'm shafted now as I cant get a decent GUI,well i can but not with a RT Kernel :-(

I'm still wondering though, wouldn't a native linux music app be a better bet? wine is an emulation layed that does have a performance hit so all things considered Reaper will give better performance from XP than Linux under wine,and, as I stated somewhere else, one of the big reasons for going to linux is to get better performance from a 'tuned' OS




MC

Indeed.

What we really need is a native reaper but with the VST stuff built in so we can use vsts with it like we can through wine.

Mind you, the only real benefit I can see is smoother screen draws,- which might not be enough benefit for the amount of work it would take - something which I also would have no clue about.

- also, it's be BRILLIANT to have reaper in a repository so linux would automatically update it :)

Kind regards

Dave Rich

norbury brook
02-13-2008, 11:00 AM
Agreed, however for me having a smooth GUI is quite a high priority for me when working as it affects the whole 'feel' of the app, this was one of my reasons for going back to Nuendo 4 for my last project.

MC

Alex Stone
02-13-2008, 12:07 PM
Agreed, however for me having a smooth GUI is quite a high priority for me when working as it affects the whole 'feel' of the app, this was one of my reasons for going back to Nuendo 4 for my last project.

MC

MC, have to agree about ATI, and i'm in the process of swapping out the Vid card for an Nvidia, which is at least more linux friendly. ATI, as i discovered in my research, are notorious for not supplying linux devs with decent and complete info, so a driver can be written properly. That's their problem frankly, and they've made sure i'm not a future customer for any more of their products. Ironically, AMD (same company) are terrific with linux, so there's an internal problem there somewhere.

With my soon to be ejected ATI card, i've been using the generic Vesa linux driver which performs, at least adequately.

As to a native version of Reaper in linux, i'm for it, as long as the spirit, and viability of Reaper, is maintained, or strengthened. I worked fairly hard to get it working seamlessly in Wine, with tweaks to Wine as well, and that's paid dividends, as Reaper works in Wine, for me, better than it did in XP.

Given Justin's fairly recent comments about the possibility of going Linux in the future, i'm rather pleased at his open minded attitude to this, although not surprised, as he's already been remarkably supportive of us chaps in Tuxville, so i don't think there's any fear or paranoia about the prospect on his part, but i would hope that when or if that happens, we stand with him, and make sure the right message goes out to the userbase, as to the commercial nature of the programme. I would rather continue to use Reaper in Wine, instead of an alternative that might lead to a cessation in development, or the Reaper team being simply overwhelmed by maintaining 3 os's at once.

So yes, as a new and reasonably successful linux user, i'm rather for the idea, but only when the Reaper team are ready to let us have it, at no cost to them of performance or ability to develop at the speed and craftsmanship we've grown accustomed to.

And of course, with all that tightly synced wonderful porting available with Jack, i think Reaper would fly. As the only multi midi channel per track software that i can run in Linux (None of the native linux programmes have this yet), Reaper currently enjoys a near monopoly here in "Parchment Studios!"

One can only imagine how fast and well it would run natively, free of the workarounds necessary in Wine.

I don't think i'd ever sleep again....

Alex.

:)

norbury brook
02-13-2008, 02:50 PM
Alex,

Yes, the graphics side of linux is a bit of a stinker at the moment. I'm finding it hard to believe though that Reaper runs under wine better than on XP, On this same machine here, I've got another disk with Dux's nlite XP sp3 and Reaper flies on it compared to the linux version which is on the same hardware.

i am by nature I think a bit of a rebel, hence my using reaper on a Pc in a mac orientated professional field!! and so Linux does appeal to my deviant side :-) However its got to perform as well as Xp on a practical level for me to even consider allowing it into my studio.

When I first tried reaper I put it through its paces for a couple of months and when i was confident it was stable and I could work comfortably in it, I went ahead and bought a pro license and did a commercial cd with it.

I'm not giving up yet on this linux adventure :-)


MC

Alex Stone
02-13-2008, 09:03 PM
Alex,

Yes, the graphics side of linux is a bit of a stinker at the moment. I'm finding it hard to believe though that Reaper runs under wine better than on XP, On this same machine here, I've got another disk with Dux's nlite XP sp3 and Reaper flies on it compared to the linux version which is on the same hardware.

i am by nature I think a bit of a rebel, hence my using reaper on a Pc in a mac orientated professional field!! and so Linux does appeal to my deviant side :-) However its got to perform as well as Xp on a practical level for me to even consider allowing it into my studio.

When I first tried reaper I put it through its paces for a couple of months and when i was confident it was stable and I could work comfortably in it, I went ahead and bought a pro license and did a commercial cd with it.

I'm not giving up yet on this linux adventure :-)


MC

MC, my experience with Reaper in XP was with the standard version, with the usual tweaks, so Dux's version may well be quicker. I simply don't know.

Whatever the means, as long as you can use the tools, and you're enjoying yourself, yes?

:)

Alex

funkster1
02-14-2008, 03:02 AM
Hi there,
with regards to graphics cards/drivers, if you don't need fancy 3D stuff (I certainly don't for realtime audio work) you could try a simple Matrox card.
Since having so many problems with my ATI card, I have swapped it for an old Matrox Millenium G550. It has excellent linux support out of the box,
runs flawlessly, I can dual monitor no problem etc.

Might be worth a try, as you can find them for less/around Ä10,00-15,00 on eBay or elsewhere.

Regards

Raphael ;)

daverich
02-14-2008, 03:30 AM
Alex,

Yes, the graphics side of linux is a bit of a stinker at the moment. I'm finding it hard to believe though that Reaper runs under wine better than on XP, On this same machine here, I've got another disk with Dux's nlite XP sp3 and Reaper flies on it compared to the linux version which is on the same hardware.

i am by nature I think a bit of a rebel, hence my using reaper on a Pc in a mac orientated professional field!! and so Linux does appeal to my deviant side :-) However its got to perform as well as Xp on a practical level for me to even consider allowing it into my studio.

When I first tried reaper I put it through its paces for a couple of months and when i was confident it was stable and I could work comfortably in it, I went ahead and bought a pro license and did a commercial cd with it.

I'm not giving up yet on this linux adventure :-)


MC



Would say the graphical behaviour of reaper in wine is stinkier.
Graphics-wise I think Linux looks waaaay better than windows/osx which hugely more options/customisation available

Kind regards

Dave Rich

norbury brook
02-14-2008, 04:06 AM
Guys,

I agree about linux graphics been great, I love compiz. Reaper under wine is unusable for me though because of its GUI.

Regarding matrox, I've just swapped out my ATI for an old Matrox G550 and can't for the life of me get it to work with the MGA or whatever its called driver, I did a reconfigure xorg 5 times last night and still no joy,


MC

funkster1
02-14-2008, 05:08 AM
Guys,

I agree about linux graphics been great, I love compiz. Reaper under wine is unusable for me though because of its GUI.

Regarding matrox, I've just swapped out my ATI for an old Matrox G550 and can't for the life of me get it to work with the MGA or whatever its called driver, I did a reconfigure xorg 5 times last night and still no joy,


MC
MC,
I could send you my 'xorg.conf' to get you going.
You'd just have to replace your screen(s) data like freq./refresh rates.
And the modelines of course, but even these you can skip as long as you know the khz range of your monitor.
Just look at the data of my second screen as a template.
Don't even bother replacing text like 'manufacturer', 'Screen Name', etc. Just leave everything as is to try it out.

Cheers
Raphael ;)

P.S.: I have attached my xorg.conf to the post. just remove '.txt' from it ;)

norbury brook
02-14-2008, 07:29 AM
THanks Raphael, thats very kind of you.

I went through my xserver config last night and put in all the relevant settings but each time i went to reboot it wouldn't give me a GUI,had to use the vesa driver to get a GUI?

I'll jave a look again tonight.

cheers again

MC

funkster1
02-14-2008, 08:17 AM
You're welcome mate.
You can't imagine how I hate this fu**in' xorg server thingie-ma-jingee.
So many sleepless nights I've spend, tryin' to configure my card and screens in a meaningful way. Grrrr :(
But for the Matrox it was way easier then for the effin' ATI junk (although an old one, which should be covered by the internal ati driver, go figure).
Hope you'll get it sorted.

Raphael ;)

lowkey
02-14-2008, 08:26 AM
This has helped me a couple of times...

sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg

Paste the above into a terminal. It allows you to create or reconfigure your the xorg.conf file.

norbury brook
02-14-2008, 11:04 AM
Lowkey, I must have done that 10 times last night and still coiuld not get the MTA driver working,I'm using it with a Dell P991 21 inch monitor but up to now I have to use the Vesa driver.

MC

spmbtng
02-14-2008, 12:39 PM
Lowkey, I must have done that 10 times last night and still coiuld not get the MTA driver working,I'm using it with a Dell P991 21 inch monitor but up to now I have to use the Vesa driver.

MC



MC, I don't have ATI cards, but did have config problems a while back with nVidia dual-head, too.

MC,

I think you mentioned radeon 9600 in one of your posts. I assume you use Ubuntu, but don't know what specific Ubuntu edition or version. I tried a google search for:

linux xorg.conf "radeon 9600" dual head

scanning through the first 4 result pages, I skipped over most other links mentioning other distributions. I found the following maybe of help for you.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RadeonDriver

http://divby0.blogspot.com/2008/02/dual-monitor-xorg-configuration-in.html

http://blog.goukihq.org/2007/08/02/dual-head-configuration/
http://blog.goukihq.org/2008/01/24/dual-head-configuration-2/

http://fleshy.org.nz/yum/2007/10/05/ati-radeon-9600-with-compiz-and-dual-head/

http://www.phoronix.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-1314.html

http://divineomega.co.uk/linux/how-to-install-ati-graphics-drivers-in-ubuntu/

Good luck.

Jimmy

spmbtng
02-14-2008, 01:21 PM
By the way, before everyone trying to change their Xserver configuration (/etc/X11/xorg.conf), do make a couple of copies before hand just in case you want, or need to revert back. The following copy the file keeping the original date and time attributes, but using the current date and time in the new filename. Both comands below are functionally the same, just different syntax:

cp -a /etc/X11/xorg.conf xorg.conf.$(date "+%Y%m%d.%H%M").OK

cp -a /etc/X11/xorg.conf xorg.conf.`date "+%Y%m%d.%H%M"`.OK

The new file name is along the format of:

xorg.conf.20080214.1458.OK

for eroneous or not quite working files, you can replace the "OK" with things like "draft", "test"...

There's a little command shell (bash, in this case) magic in there. You can run the sub-command by itself to see its output:

date "+%Y%m%d.%H%M"

The $(), or back-quotes (``) simply run the enclosed (sub)command and substitute in-place the output of that sub-command.

$(date "+%Y%m%d.%H%M")

`date "+%Y%m%d.%H%M"`

Jimmy

norbury brook
02-14-2008, 03:26 PM
Thanks jimmy,

I did look through a a lot of stuff during my week long trail of getting the ATI drivers to work, I did get them to work great, but not on a real time kernel, as soon as I moved to a RT kernel the drivers wouldn't load,so, I swapped out for an old matrox i had lying around,I'm going to have another go now with the Xorg setting s kindly sent.

cheers
MC

norbury brook
02-14-2008, 03:54 PM
Well had a play around with the xorg conf and still no joy, I get to the log in screen,I log in with user name and password then the machine just keeps rebooting when trying to get to the desktop in an endless loop, I have to ctrl alt F1 to get back to terminal and reconfigure from there.

MC

spmbtng
02-14-2008, 06:59 PM
Thanks jimmy,

I did look through a a lot of stuff during my week long trail of getting the ATI drivers to work, I did get them to work great, but not on a real time kernel, as soon as I moved to a RT kernel the drivers wouldn't load,so, I swapped out for an old matrox i had lying around,I'm going to have another go now with the Xorg setting s kindly sent.

cheers
MC




AMD bought out ATI about 2 yrs ago. ATI has recently started to release some of their chipset specs to opensource developers. So longer term, there may be some hope.

Does the ATI driver compiles anything on your machine at all? I ask, because nVidia driver does, as I'll decribe below. Have you tried to report that to ATI, not that it is of any help at the moment. Hopefully it will add more test cases to their driver testing.

I do know that most distributions (at least the ones I use) don't even have or officially support any real-time kernels. Though, music oriented distro support realtime kernels, graphics driver problems are the vendors' lack of support/testing for Linux -- probably from lack of skills on their part in the first place.

If you use Ubuntu Studio, you can try to report problems particularly the dual-head setup to them, hopefully they will get those scenarios tested and fixed eventually.

With nVidia proprietary driver paackage, their installation files have some binary files (the core graphics proprietary instruction) and a bunch more source code. The installation process try to determine if the kernel I run matches one of their "pre-compiled" drivers (separately for each stock kernels by mainstream distros), they will try to automatically download and install that. Since I run a real-time kernel that I compile with a tweak in the kernel version name ("uname -a" is unique), the driver installation process does its own compilation of the driver right there, then install it.

Of course if you compile your own kernel, you should make sure the kernel-version name is unique and not match the stock kernel version name, because kernel modules are different (and won't be compatible) depending on configuration of the kernel at kernel compilation.

Most of these drivers have a portion compiled as a kernel module to be able to access the hardware directly. The rest are linking into some various Xserver APIs. The Xserver APIs do change and need tested, of course. But the harder part is to keep up with many different kernel versions out there. Not only that, kernel modules for the same version but different kernel configurations are not compatible either. That is because of how the compiler packs up the binary data for the kernel, and for the modules. So the same kernel version can be compiled by all the distros out there and most won't be compatible with each other because of the kernel configuration diference, and the compiler verion itself, too.

I don't know how the Matrox, or ATI drivers are built. But just to give some idea of how the various binary code pieces fit together for the nVidia driver(s), as I understand it. At least that where things are right now.

Jimmy

funkster1
02-14-2008, 07:28 PM
Well had a play around with the xorg conf and still no joy, I get to the log in screen,I log in with user name and password then the machine just keeps rebooting when trying to get to the desktop in an endless loop, I have to ctrl alt F1 to get back to terminal and reconfigure from there.

MC

MC,
have you used the xorg.conf I sent you? Did you change anything in it?
Maybe your problem is specific to your Dell machine? It sure seems strange that even the matrox won't give you satisfying results.

There are many "Howto"'s on the Ubuntu forums, have you tried them?
Did you ask some help in the Ubuntu forums? It seems that Ubuntu has some special ways to configure certain things, but I have always found the peeps in their forums of great help. Some very knowledgeable folk around there.

I remember that 1 special ATI model was known to not work correctly, and I believe it was the 9600.
But you should really head over to the Ubuntu forums, there more likely to be able to help get your xorg-server settings straight. Have you tried upgrading xserver and all that stuff? Is your install up to date?
Well, I'm running out of ideas, since I'm no linux geek neither.

Good luck MC

Raphael ;)

Alex Stone
02-15-2008, 12:47 AM
MC,

I wonder if its the card, or there's something else going on here. I did a bit of a google yesterday trying to find a similar challenge to yours, and turned pretty well the same links as already posted by others.
Question at this point. Did you install the RT kernel seperately, or as part of an original 'generic' install?

Alex..

norbury brook
02-15-2008, 02:12 AM
Thanks guys,I don't want to high jack this thread into my linux issues ;-)but to answer your questions,

I installed ubuntu gutsy 7.1, then I downloaded and installed the restricted ATI driver and had it working fine.I then followed W00ts instructions for configuring the real time kernel/ASLA/Jack/wine etc Its at that point when rebooting that I lost my graphics drivers and it rebooted using a generic driver.After spending a few days trying to get it to work I did come across a small line on the ATI site (i think),saying that the driver wasn't suitable with RT Kernel,so I swapped it out for the matrox.

I looked at the xorg.conf file sent by funkster and the graphics settings were the same as my one, to be honest there's not much to really change when doing a reconfigure xserver-xorg,the driver is the MTA,it recognizes its a matrox G550 and auto detects the monitor(dell P991),It reboots to the log in screen but cant get to the desktop.

MC

Alex Stone
02-15-2008, 03:52 AM
Thanks guys,I don't want to high jack this thread into my linux issues ;-)but to answer your questions,

I installed ubuntu gutsy 7.1, then I downloaded and installed the restricted ATI driver and had it working fine.I then followed W00ts instructions for configuring the real time kernel/ASLA/Jack/wine etc Its at that point when rebooting that I lost my graphics drivers and it rebooted using a generic driver.After spending a few days trying to get it to work I did come across a small line on the ATI site (i think),saying that the driver wasn't suitable with RT Kernel,so I swapped it out for the matrox.

I looked at the xorg.conf file sent by funkster and the graphics settings were the same as my one, to be honest there's not much to really change when doing a reconfigure xserver-xorg,the driver is the MTA,it recognizes its a matrox G550 and auto detects the monitor(dell P991),It reboots to the log in screen but cant get to the desktop.

MC

MC,
Do you mean the text login, or the splash screen with login?
If the second option is the case, have you tried going to options in the bottom left of the screen, and tried to open the desktop using a different window manager?


Alex.

StudioDave
02-15-2008, 04:39 AM
I found this when Googling for "matrox g550 xorg", the original post is at http://www.siltala.net/?s=mga :


Iíve got a Matrox MGA G550 and Iíve experienced various kinds of X crashes after upgrading to edgy. Iíve tried all the solutions proposed above and here is the combination that works for me:

* No framebuffer enabled in xorg.conf and no special kernal module loaded (Iím using standard edgy kernel)

* Added vga=795 (1280◊1024 resolution) in kernel parameters (/boot/grub/menu.lst). Without this it was booting with a very dark screen and the monitor was refusing to display anything after gdm started;

* Iíve upgraded the driver to Johnís backport above to have 3D (e.g screensaver) working. without this upgrade gnome-screensaver was giving a blank screen before crashing X.

Now it seems to work very well and MUCH faster then VESA.


Later I read:


I only used vga=791 in menu.lst though, for 1024◊768.


(In case you need a different display resolution.)

I don't know if that will help with the RT kernel problem. Perhaps you should ask about it on an xorg list or the Linux Audio Users mail list (http://lad.linuxaudio.org/subscribe/lau.html).

Btw, this problem underscores the need to ensure that your hardware will in fact do what you want it to do under Linux. Sometimes you have to take special care, particularly with 3D video requirements, and I always advise searching the LAU list archives for information about your intended purchase(s) *before* spending your money.

Geez, I hope AMD does get things up to speed for Linux with their ATI stuff. I've had few problems with the nVidia cards, but other users report difficulties (mostly due to irremediable IRQ assignments), and I'd really like to have a truly open-source accelerated 3D video driver solution.

BoxOfSnoo
02-15-2008, 06:15 AM
Well had a play around with the xorg conf and still no joy, I get to the log in screen,I log in with user name and password then the machine just keeps rebooting when trying to get to the desktop in an endless loop, I have to ctrl alt F1 to get back to terminal and reconfigure from there.

That doesn't sound like a graphics problem, since you are getting to the login screen. I had a similar problem with KDE and... Beryl I think. The quickest way to get to a desktop is to create a new user. Go to a terminal, adduser newuser and log in there - clean desktop with no session management issues.

spmbtng
02-15-2008, 08:36 AM
Thanks guys,I don't want to high jack this thread into my linux issues ;-)but to answer your questions,

I installed ubuntu gutsy 7.1, then I downloaded and installed the restricted ATI driver and had it working fine.I then followed W00ts instructions for configuring the real time kernel/ASLA/Jack/wine etc Its at that point when rebooting that I lost my graphics drivers and it rebooted using a generic driver.After spending a few days trying to get it to work I did come across a small line on the ATI site (i think),saying that the driver wasn't suitable with RT Kernel,so I swapped it out for the matrox.

I looked at the xorg.conf file sent by funkster and the graphics settings were the same as my one, to be honest there's not much to really change when doing a reconfigure xserver-xorg,the driver is the MTA,it recognizes its a matrox G550 and auto detects the monitor(dell P991),It reboots to the log in screen but cant get to the desktop.

MC



I hope Alex doesn't mind, and most folks should be aware of how the pieces are done in Linux. So if you decide to stick with Linux, you need to know how things work together.

What I said above was that the driver needs to be compiled with the specific kernel you run. Let's say you have several kernel versions installed in the same partition, same Linux installation, the display driver may only work with the one kernel that it was compiled with. Because the way the display driver pieces are tightly knitted, the kernel module portion only work with the one it was compiled with, the other portions of the display driver is not properly setup for use in multiple kernels setup. Again, here's the manufacturers (ATI, nVidia...) lack of foresight, or even knowledge to anticipate that Linux allows us to install multiple kernels and use whichever custom kernel we want at will, windows only one kernel at all times. If they know enough about Linux, and make the efforts, there are ways to let you compile and install multiple copies of things, keep them separate and let you use which ever you need at the moment.

In other words, after you installed the realtime kernel, if you want to use the display driver, it has to be compiled against that realtime kernel headers. The way they install it now, only one copy of that display driver works and only works with the kernel that it was compiled with (which ever you compiled installed last).

I saw that you got the Matrox to work. But if you want to give your ATI card a try, try the following link and use the "Method 2: Install the Driver Manually"

http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Ubuntu_Gutsy_Installation_Guide

which as a link about "realtime" tweek if you have problem compiling the driver. Of course, you can skip it if it compiles fine. Here's the link:

http://64studio.com/node/150#comment-1148

the 64studio.com distro is Debian based. Ubuntu is not Debian compatible, but should be fairly close for Ubuntu to use the same approach.

Hope it helps other ATI users out there, too.

Jimmy

stodge
02-15-2008, 08:46 AM
If you're messing with the kernel get it compiled and installed and then install the graphics driver. The graphics driver uses a kernel module that is compiled against a specific kernel, as others have pointed out.

Alex Stone
02-15-2008, 09:43 AM
As a complete quick aside to the above challenge, are there currently gui's for jconv and BruteFir? (Which i can't get compiled at the moment, but that's another story.) Googled and couldn't find anything.

I'd like to experiment with these a little.

Alex.

Alex Stone
02-15-2008, 10:04 AM
I hope Alex doesn't mind, and most folks should be aware of how the pieces are done in Linux. So if you decide to stick with Linux, you need to know how things work together.

What I said above was that the driver needs to be compiled with the specific kernel you run. Let's say you have several kernel versions installed in the same partition, same Linux installation, the display driver may only work with the one kernel that it was compiled with. Because the way the display driver pieces are tightly knitted, the kernel module portion only work with the one it was compiled with, the other portions of the display driver is not properly setup for use in multiple kernels setup. Again, here's the manufacturers (ATI, nVidia...) lack of foresight, or even knowledge to anticipate that Linux allows us to install multiple kernels and use whichever custom kernel we want at will, windows only one kernel at all times. If they know enough about Linux, and make the efforts, there are ways to let you compile and install multiple copies of things, keep them separate and let you use which ever you need at the moment.

In other words, after you installed the realtime kernel, if you want to use the display driver, it has to be compiled against that realtime kernel headers. The way they install it now, only one copy of that display driver works and only works with the kernel that it was compiled with (which ever you compiled installed last).

I saw that you got the Matrox to work. But if you want to give your ATI card a try, try the following link and use the "Method 2: Install the Driver Manually"

http://wiki.cchtml.com/index.php/Ubuntu_Gutsy_Installation_Guide

which as a link about "realtime" tweek if you have problem compiling the driver. Of course, you can skip it if it compiles fine. Here's the link:

http://64studio.com/node/150#comment-1148

the 64studio.com distro is Debian based. Ubuntu is not Debian compatible, but should be fairly close for Ubuntu to use the same approach.

Hope it helps other ATI users out there, too.

Jimmy

Jimmy, i don't mind at all.
Share away, and understand it's appreciated.

:)

Alex.

Alex Stone
02-15-2008, 12:33 PM
Ok, fellas, i'm going onto the next challenge.

Currently, my midi keyboard (mk-249) shows up in Jack, as an alsa device. So far so good. And i can pretty well route this wherever i want, either in the alsa midi window of Jack, or, with the aid of an extra tool called aj2 (alsa2jackmidid) route the keyboard into a native jack midi device.
So, here's the first shot of a normal alsa midi port index in Qjackctl....

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/23345/Screenshot-Connections-JACK-Audio-Connection-Kit.png


Nothing unusual there.

Next shot is of a normal Jack midi port index in Qjackctl, with the latest build of Linuxsampler, and it's Jack midi device....

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/23346/Screenshot-Connections-JACK-Audio-Connection-Kit-1.png


Again, little that's unusual there.

The next shot shows the Jack midi window in Qjackctl, with the "a2j" link utility programme, ready for virtual cabling to linuxsampler......

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/23347/Screenshot-Connections-JACK-Audio-Connection-Kit-2.png

You can see that this highly useful utility has both in and out for alsa to jack routing both ways.

The last shot is the ports in jack midi 'opened' showing the routing options available. A number of choices...

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/23348/Screenshot-Connections-JACK-Audio-Connection-Kit-3.png

This works well, so far.

My challenge is, to reconfigure my usb midi keyboard to appear as a 'Native Jack' midi device, either as well as alsa, or just as jack midi. And because of a2j's 'duplex' ports, if i still need to route to alsa, i can do so. There are some advantages with my setup, of having the kbd appear as a jack device rather than just alsa, because of different programmes i'm using, and trialing.

So far, with some fair degree of googling, and reading, i've yet to see, anywhere, any means, instructions, or configuration examples of how to do this.

And clues, links, or comments yes or no, would be appreciated.

Alex.

StudioDave
02-15-2008, 02:14 PM
As a complete quick aside to the above challenge, are there currently gui's for jconv and BruteFir?

I've never tried BruteFIR, but not long ago I spent some pleasant hours playing my guitar through jconv. The source package includes some starter scripts, and the engine itself is impressive. I know that Fons planned a GUI for it, and I need to do an article about his software anyway, so I'll bug him about it and we'll see what happens. :)

Alex Stone
02-15-2008, 02:22 PM
I've never tried BruteFIR, but not long ago I spent some pleasant hours playing my guitar through jconv. The source package includes some starter scripts, and the engine itself is impressive. I know that Fons planned a GUI for it, and I need to do an article about his software anyway, so I'll bug him about it and we'll see what happens. :)

Thanks Dave, it would be much appreciated. I've been having a trial of Jost, and i figure it would be useful to be able to include jconv in the signal path as well, but be able to load IR's at will, as well.

In addition to the idea of a signal path, Livemix is an excellent programme, and works really well here. I'm amazed this doesn't get more air time somewhere. Clever stuff. I'll definitely be doing more with this.

Alex.

spmbtng
02-16-2008, 11:39 AM
Jimmy, i don't mind at all.
Share away, and understand it's appreciated.

:)

Alex.



Thanks Alex.

For those who think why on earth do Linux users have to compile these driver thingy? Why do things have to be so complicated with Linux? And the complicated orders of things to be done...

The main reason is the hardware vendors (ATI, nVidia) licence agreements won't allow redistribution of the driver(s), even for free (the drivers only works on their corresponding hardware anyway). If they do, all the Linux distros would have all those drivers precompiled along with their kernel compilation already. If not, we could easily find reputable sources that would do that.

It boils down to the hardware vendors insisting on full control, yet they are so far behind the tide to even get all features of the hardware to work properly and reliably on Linux, let alone being able to offer sensible options to support even multiple kernels on a single Linux installation, or other type of configurations.

That's why there are varying opinions and debates about opensource vs. proprietary drivers among GNU/Linux/BSD users because of these (control) issues. ATI recent opensource efforts are following Intel's display drivers lead on this front. Hopefully things will improve as they get more comfortable working with Linux themselves. nVidia drivers are still proprietary.

Jimmy

Alex Stone
02-17-2008, 04:20 AM
Thanks Alex.

For those who think why on earth do Linux users have to compile these driver thingy? Why do things have to be so complicated with Linux? And the complicated orders of things to be done...

The main reason is the hardware vendors (ATI, nVidia) licence agreements won't allow redistribution of the driver(s), even for free (the drivers only works on their corresponding hardware anyway). If they do, all the Linux distros would have all those drivers precompiled along with their kernel compilation already. If not, we could easily find reputable sources that would do that.

It boils down to the hardware vendors insisting on full control, yet they are so far behind the tide to even get all features of the hardware to work properly and reliably on Linux, let alone being able to offer sensible options to support even multiple kernels on a single Linux installation, or other type of configurations.

That's why there are varying opinions and debates about opensource vs. proprietary drivers among GNU/Linux/BSD users because of these (control) issues. ATI recent opensource efforts are following Intel's display drivers lead on this front. Hopefully things will improve as they get more comfortable working with Linux themselves. nVidia drivers are still proprietary.

Jimmy

Jimmy,
I'd like to think that ATI were doing this out of an intent to include opensource and linux users in their customer portfolio. But from what i've gleaned from a lot of research, they were dragged kicking and screaming to the party by the overwhelming pressure sustained by users.
Still, they're having a go, and there's no harm in that, even if they're late to the wedding, so to speak.
I have little sympathy for HW companies that ignore the opensource market through some paranoic perception they're going to lose something in the process.
Might seem harsh, but given the rising tide of frustration with the commercial OS's, they're going to have to bite the bullet sooner or later. (imho)

Alex.

roman
02-17-2008, 06:58 AM
I can't really relate to pretty much all of the problems that are described in this thread.
I'm running reaper on linux since it's out of beta... things got much better with wineasio, and somewhere in the past 6 months the last glitches disappeared.

But then, I am always looking for hardware that I know is compatible... which is about 90% of what is out there. Some problems remain with some semi-pro level soundcards, but since I've been using linux for a couple of years as my main desktop system, I try to avoid unsupported hardware, which really isn't that hard to do.

I see some people decided to install 64 bit systems - DON'T!
Especially if you are new to linux.
Install Ubuntu-Studio. It's ubuntu, but with the stuff set up, that you would have to set up anyway... even if it's just a matter of minutes if you know what you're doing.
I still consider YAD to be in alpha stage, no matter what they claim. It's an ambitious project, and thanks to them we have wineasio, but their distro sucks IMHO.

I don't want to tease you. If someone has a problem setting something up - Ubuntuforums.org and Linuxquestions.org are the places to ask.
Marathon threads are not the best place to look for solutions. :)

spmbtng
02-17-2008, 08:58 AM
Jimmy,
I'd like to think that ATI were doing this out of an intent to include opensource and linux users in their customer portfolio. But from what i've gleaned from a lot of research, they were dragged kicking and screaming to the party by the overwhelming pressure sustained by users.
Still, they're having a go, and there's no harm in that, even if they're late to the wedding, so to speak.
I have little sympathy for HW companies that ignore the opensource market through some paranoic perception they're going to lose something in the process.
Might seem harsh, but given the rising tide of frustration with the commercial OS's, they're going to have to bite the bullet sooner or later. (imho)

Alex.




Alex, of course their are many reasons. Still, their own efforts were way too slow, too buggy for too many Linux users. There might be some last straws on the camel's back that push ATI to opensource some of their recent chipsets. You already mentioned users' complains, requests, petitions... Also AMD bought out AIT (over paid for it???). AMD the CPU folks were working to have the CPU supported by BSD/Linux fairly early on with their new hardware. Recent AMD losses (both financial, margins, and some market shares) vs. Intel could also be attributed to many things. Of course, Intel could be playing dirty, as they are being investigated in the EU for anti-competitive practices. It could be the price, or performance, or could also be some BSD/Linux users shunning AMD/ATI new hardware, too. With the recent losses, they have to change course somehow. I agree that anything contributing to opensource community is very musch appreciated, and we have reasons to hope for much better future. The wireless network drivers were in similar situation a few years back, there are still a few card makers who aren't to comfortable with the BSD/Linux users. The wired network card makers have had their hardware supported on Unix/BSD/Linux for decades already and it is pretty much quiet on that front.



About the Linux journey, with some reflection, it is like learning a new musical instrument like the guitar, or keyboard... There are acoustic, electric, acoustic-electric variations being introduced from time to time and many makers of such instruments. These are like the different Linux distros and their variations.

Once decided on an instrument, or a linux distro, the first few months are just fumbling around trying to understand the what when where how of the very basic baby steps. After that, it takes asking questions, studies, research, pratices, practices, and more practices for a few years to be confortable with such instruments. There are those who learn a song and only play it like the way it was recorded like a recital, a mistake is a no-no. Then there are those who learn a song and make performances out of it by praticing it with different rhythms, tempo, accompaniment, varying drums, base, improvision... It is comparable to tweaking your Linux configuration for various hardware, software settings to see what you like better. It really boils down to how much time and efforts you put into it. Even if you think those are chores, it is whether you have something to look forward to, your own reasons and motivation for using Linux. If you only want to use the PC simply for web browsing, checking email, listen to store bought music... then there's not so much reasons and motivation to learn and use Linux.

Jimmy

Alex Stone
02-17-2008, 02:36 PM
I can't really relate to pretty much all of the problems that are described in this thread.
I'm running reaper on linux since it's out of beta... things got much better with wineasio, and somewhere in the past 6 months the last glitches disappeared.

But then, I am always looking for hardware that I know is compatible... which is about 90% of what is out there. Some problems remain with some semi-pro level soundcards, but since I've been using linux for a couple of years as my main desktop system, I try to avoid unsupported hardware, which really isn't that hard to do.

I see some people decided to install 64 bit systems - DON'T!
Especially if you are new to linux.
Install Ubuntu-Studio. It's ubuntu, but with the stuff set up, that you would have to set up anyway... even if it's just a matter of minutes if you know what you're doing.
I still consider YAD to be in alpha stage, no matter what they claim. It's an ambitious project, and thanks to them we have wineasio, but their distro sucks IMHO.

I don't want to tease you. If someone has a problem setting something up - Ubuntuforums.org and Linuxquestions.org are the places to ask.
Marathon threads are not the best place to look for solutions. :)

Roman,
Could be highly useful for some who do enjoy a browse, and a good laugh at the ups and downs posted here, if you would briefly give an idea of the HW you're having a degree of success with.

Just as a personal perspective, and my brief experience so far, that the UBS forum hasn't always been responsive in answers to questions related to a)Using Wine in UBS, and b)anything to do with up to date info on soundcard or vidcard HW. A lot of the how to's posted are getting dated, and as some users have found, the old tricks don't always work with new tools.
The same will happen with this thread eventually.

I don't see a problem with info being placed here, by users, as any less relavent. This is a Reaper forum, in which some of us use the programme with linux. Quite naturally, sometimes one direct question or comment can lead to something more indirect, and that's highly useful as well. (The discovery of Livemix, Linxsampler, and various Jack and Wineasio tools being among my favourites.) so it might seem long, and occasionally going around in circles, hehe, but there have been contributions here that haven't got answers in the more 'formal' linux forums, so i say keep them coming.

I'm also going to disagree with you about JAD. Although i had my own compilation problems with it, and went with UBS in the end, we have users here who've enjoyed using that particular distro, and have good success in doing so.

As is often stated in fora like this, whatever works for one, may not work for another.
Same thing happens in other OS's as well.

Marathon threads can also be a 'linear' perspective for some too. I'm pleased to hear you don't have problems, and nothing in the thread is relavent, in your setup, but i've lost count of the number of supportive emails i've had from those i've never met before, for whom this type of format is 'more enjoyable' to use, and who have followed the journey, and taken note of the tips and information tendered by the thread contributors.
That includes Linux developers.

I also think it's a little unfair to assume that this is the only port of call for many with questions. One only has to look at some of the posts here, and the links provided, to realise this is just one spot in a list of useful information sources
that regular, and new, Reaper/Wine/Linux users will draw from to find solutions.

:)

Alex.

lowkey
02-17-2008, 04:30 PM
Thanks to Google everything on this thread is findable. Thanks Google *waves* :)

Alex Stone
02-18-2008, 12:48 AM
Thanks to Google everything on this thread is findable. Thanks Google *waves* :)

Hehe, exactly.

:)

roman
02-18-2008, 04:41 AM
@Alex

I have a delta1010lt in the studio and a m-audio audiophile at home.The only thing that isn't quite so nice is that the gnome-volume control doesn't assign the output correctly, so I can only adjust left and right individually, which doesn't matter to me because I run it through a mixer. But it might be an inconvenience to some.
I did have some minor problems with a "SB audigy live value" and Qjackctl. I did get it to work though.

I run xp in the studio, because some of the pricier plugins that I use have dongle copy protection, and those won't work with linux.
I use reaper on wine at home to cut projects together, sort out takes, and mix rehearsal recordings mostly with the stillwell plugins.
I followed the Dave Haynes howto to install wineasio .
I think the problem with maintaining a howto on stuff like that is that it will change every couple of months. Not so long ago you had to recompile the kernel to allow low-latency processing for regular users. Before that - with the 2.4 kernel there was a different workaround, and now pretty much all distributions have realtime kernels in the repos. Things are changing so quickly that you would need a wiki system to keep it up to date. That's why I'm kind of reluctant to write one myself.
That, and because I don't really feel like an authority on this kind of stuff.

Alex Stone
02-18-2008, 03:32 PM
I guess this is more a question to Drumfix, than anyone else, but is it possible to configure wineasio to use mutiple Jack midi ports, instead of Alsa?
Or does Jack midi by it's nature make alsa irrelavent in wine?

Alex.

malcolmj
02-18-2008, 04:57 PM
But then, I am always looking for hardware that I know is compatible... which is about 90% of what is out there. Some problems remain with some semi-pro level soundcards, but since I've been using linux for a couple of years as my main desktop system, I try to avoid unsupported hardware, which really isn't that hard to do.

Are you saying 90% of computer hardware is compatible, or 90% of pro audio hardware?

I've always found the lack of drivers to be the thing that stops me using Linux for audio production. If you can point me to a Linux distro that supports 90% of pro audio hardware (natively, not via Wine) I'd be really pleased! :)

Cheers,

Malcolm.

spmbtng
02-18-2008, 08:18 PM
Are you saying 90% of computer hardware is compatible, or 90% of pro audio hardware?

I've always found the lack of drivers to be the thing that stops me using Linux for audio production. If you can point me to a Linux distro that supports 90% of pro audio hardware (natively, not via Wine) I'd be really pleased! :)

Cheers,


Malcolm.


Malcolm,

I also started trying Linux for some 10 years now. I use it exclusively the last 5 yrs or so, but I don't do much with audio/music. If an audio card (or any hardware for that matter) is supported in Linux, it can be used by most Linux distros out there. I say most, because there are some Linux distro that may be non Intel/AMD compatible, some are for embeded systems...

I don't know what percentage of audio cards are supported. You may want to do web search for specific audio card make and model for users' report of them working with Linux. Most audio hard ware support in Linux are through ALSA. You can also look at ALSA pages to see if specific cards are supported, and how well:

http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Matrix:Main

If you already have a card, you can try to boot up with one of the audio/music oriented liveCD, which should recognize and auto configure most audio cards and let you test it out -- check out one or more of these liveCDs: Musix, 64studio, JAD, Dynebolic.

The following info might be more technical, probably more applicable if you need to get proprietary drivers to work with Linux.

For most hardware support in Linux, they need proper device drivers. Most device drivers are opensource and already part of the Linux kernel. The drivers are normally compiled as part of the kernel binary file itself, or as separate kernel module to be loaded into memory before the device can be used.

Non-opensource drivers, because of their licensing restriction, must somehow be compiled into a kernel module. Currently, the kernel modules must be compiled by the same compiler version, and using the same kernel headers. So a proprietary driver generally requires a compilation, normally after you already compiled and run the kernel version you want to test that proprietary driver with. There are other, more complicated ways.

Jimmy

roman
02-19-2008, 04:32 PM
Are you saying 90% of computer hardware is compatible,
Yes.
or 90% of pro audio hardware?
No.

There is very few hardware that does not run on linux. If more than one user in 100 uses a particular piece of hardware, chances are that it will work out of the box, except for the occasional oddity like win modems or certain wifi adapters.

Of course, the smaller the userbase is for a piece of hardware, the more you have to rely on the companies making the drivers, or at least publishing a comprehensible documentation, so the poor hackers don't need to reverse engineer it to make it work.

Windows supports almost nothing in my pc. Without 3'rd party drivers I boot into 640x480 with 16 colors, usb isn't recognized, the additional ide card does not work, none of my 2 network cards work, my soundcard doesn't work, neither does my tv card my camera or my mp3 player. They all need 3'rd party drivers and software.
The problem with 3'rd party drivers is that the support will end at some point, and you have to rely on obscure 4'th party sites, where there's a very good chance that the drivers you get are contaminated, if you can get them at all.
Many times the drivers insist on installing software that you don't need.

All I'm saying is that windows gets praise for stuff that it has no part in. - Driver support and software selection are two of those.

malcolmj
02-19-2008, 06:31 PM
All I'm saying is that windows gets praise for stuff that it has no part in. - Driver support and software selection are two of those.

Agreed 100%. I wish more audio manufacturers would make Linux drivers, and more developers would make native Linux ports. :)

Cheers,

Malcolm.

Alex Stone
02-21-2008, 04:00 AM
Have to agree with all the posts about linux HW drivers. Here's hoping they see the light! :)

As a quick update, and following a message back from Drumfix, the wizard who gave us the latest incarnation of Wineasio, Jack isn't able to be included in the code.

As a follow up to this, i will try and get hold of Stephane at Jack, and see where they're up to with jack midi, and the possibility of incorporating it into Wine. It would be an understatement to say if this is developed to maturity for the same near unlimited number of ports we can access in native Linux Jack, then we'd be a long way in front of anything else out there.


More to come....

Alex.

:)

404NotFound
02-21-2008, 09:23 PM
[shameless advert]

My HOW TO: Run Reaper on a 64studio Live CD is online now!
http://404notfound.bplaced.net/

[/shameless advert]

lowkey
02-21-2008, 11:17 PM
Good work 404 :D

Thanks for your help yesterday :) Ive got my system sorted (24 ins and 18 out)

I made an empty file and named it ".wineasiocfg" and placed it in my "home" folder. This is what I put in it...

ASIO_INPUTS=24
ASIO_OUTPUTS=18

It's working like a dream with Hydrogen and LinuxSampler.

Would it be possible to open FreeCycle as an editor for Reaper?

StudioDave
02-22-2008, 05:04 AM
Would it be possible to open FreeCycle as an editor for Reaper?

I tried that. I was able to set FreeCycle as the secondary editor (Wavosaur is the primary here), and it appeared when called from a Reaper track. However, it opened without the WAV file I designated, and it crashed Reaper and JACK if I tried it on an OGG file (as in the Brad Sucks demo).

It might be made to work though. I suggest contacting Predrag, the author of FreeCycle. Ask him what needs to be done for Reaper to call Freecycle and load a indicated track/file.

StudioDave
02-22-2008, 05:07 AM
[shameless advert]

My HOW TO: Run Reaper on a 64studio Live CD is online now!
http://404notfound.bplaced.net/

[/shameless advert]

Nor should you have any shame about the advert. That's excellent work, my friend, and I'll be sure to point readers to it in my LJ column.

I'm also slowly getting back into maintaining linux-sound.org, and I've considered expanding the Emulators section to include some pointers to guides such as yours and w00t's. It's valuable, and people need to know where to find it.

Thank you! :)

StudioDave
02-22-2008, 06:04 AM
I'm looking for some orchestral instrument collections to load into LinuxSampler. Free would be nice, but from my searches so far I've assumed that I'll have to spend some dinero to get what I want. That's fine, I've no problem spending money, but I'm new to this part of the game and I could use some recommendations.

I write in various styles, from blues and rock to highly chromatic orchestral and ensemble music, so I'm probably looking for a few sets. The lower the cost, the better, but I'm also interested in the stuff I can't currently afford.

So: Any recommendations from the crew here at Reaper Central ?

Alex Stone
02-22-2008, 06:26 AM
I'm looking for some orchestral instrument collections to load into LinuxSampler. Free would be nice, but from my searches so far I've assumed that I'll have to spend some dinero to get what I want. That's fine, I've no problem spending money, but I'm new to this part of the game and I could use some recommendations.

I write in various styles, from blues and rock to highly chromatic orchestral and ensemble music, so I'm probably looking for a few sets. The lower the cost, the better, but I'm also interested in the stuff I can't currently afford.

So: Any recommendations from the crew here at Reaper Central ?

Dave,
Here's a good place to start..

https://bb.linuxsampler.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11

Alex.

:)

Alex Stone
02-22-2008, 06:33 AM
[shameless advert]

My HOW TO: Run Reaper on a 64studio Live CD is online now!
http://404notfound.bplaced.net/

[/shameless advert]

Excellent work 404. Easy to follow, and understand.

Alex!

:)

StudioDave
02-22-2008, 06:59 AM
Dave,
Here's a good place to start..

https://bb.linuxsampler.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11


Perfect, thanks a lot. :)

spmbtng
02-24-2008, 08:03 AM
I'm looking for some orchestral instrument collections to load into LinuxSampler. Free would be nice, but from my searches so far I've assumed that I'll have to spend some dinero to get what I want. That's fine, I've no problem spending money, but I'm new to this part of the game and I could use some recommendations.



StudioDave,

I haven't tried any of the following yet. Just thought about making myself custom patches, or sf2 patches, so I've started to look around a little, too.

http://www.philharmonia.co.uk/thesoundexchange/sound_samples/sample_libraries/
http://www.philharmonia.co.uk/thesoundexchange/sound_samples/

http://theremin.music.uiowa.edu/MIS.html

http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/

http://www.oneshotsamples.com/

http://www.samplenet.co.uk/

http://www.sampleswap.org/

http://www.freewavesamples.com/

http://www.kara-moon.com/index.php?modid=mod02&l_submenu_id=m001_02_02

http://ccmixter.org/freesound/view/media/samples/browse

http://www.soundsnap.com/




http://home.deds.nl/~s4u_site/

http://www.soundcentral.com/

Jimmy

StudioDave
02-24-2008, 10:47 AM
I haven't tried any of the following yet. Just thought about making myself custom patches, or sf2 patches, so I've started to look around a little, too.[snip]


Ah, more treasure. :)

Thanks, Jimmy !

corazon
02-24-2008, 03:17 PM
Have you seen this page:

http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/Intel8x0

(snip)

dp

Added: My responses always seem so pedantic when I re-read them. I need to find some "lighten-up" buzzer that'll let me know when I'm dorking out. Sorry about that, Stargard, and I want to emphasize that I'll gladly help, though as you can tell, a lot of what I do is simply point people in a direction, then off they go.

You can also write to me directly, via private message here or dave@linux-sound.org.

Hey, don't knock pedantic, when it is the 'sound' of knowledge and experience! Not everyone here salivates when called 'dude', lol

corazon
02-24-2008, 03:57 PM
I'm looking for some orchestral instrument collections to load into LinuxSampler. Free would be nice, but from my searches so far I've assumed that I'll have to spend some dinero to get what I want. That's fine, I've no problem spending money, but I'm new to this part of the game and I could use some recommendations.

I write in various styles, from blues and rock to highly chromatic orchestral and ensemble music, so I'm probably looking for a few sets. The lower the cost, the better, but I'm also interested in the stuff I can't currently afford.

So: Any recommendations from the crew here at Reaper Central ?

If you have ExtremeSampleConverter, maybe consider the Wusikstation V4 group-buy, ($40 with a ComputerMusicMagazine cover dvd holding wusik V1)
Lots of strings in the soundsets, and installing Wusikstation was just a drag/drop of the *huge)wusik folder between XP and linux partitions, double check the converter for wusiksnd to gig, or intermediary format, not that wusik isn't a fine synth/sampler/rompler on it's own. (PS @ $40, it's a steal for just the extra soundsets!)
http://www.wusik.com/w/purchase.html

corazon
02-24-2008, 04:05 PM
@ all

headzUP:

PCLinuxOS is an RPM distro using synaptic to manage packages, and includes wineasio, and a realtime kernel in it's repository, allows non-root user to go online, and is very new-user friendly, with the finest easiest windows resizing/partitoning gui on the planet. Highly recommended, and on sale today! (free is a very good price!)
Reaper seems quite happy in pclos land!

StudioDave
02-25-2008, 05:55 AM
If you have ExtremeSampleConverter, maybe consider the Wusikstation V4 group-buy... [snip]

Thanks, corazon, but believe it or not I live in a benighted burb that doesn't seem to have a shop that carries the CM magazine. Grrr... And apparently CM does not favor an on-line download of the disc contents (IIRC, and I'd be happy as a clam in mud to be wrong about that).

I'll keep looking for a copy though. I'm sure I can find it in one of the neighboring cities.

StudioDave
02-25-2008, 05:57 AM
...Not everyone here salivates when called 'dude'...

LOL! That was very funny, a good way for me start the morning. Gracias, mi corazon. :)

Alex Stone
02-26-2008, 02:49 AM
@ all

headzUP:

PCLinuxOS is an RPM distro using synaptic to manage packages, and includes wineasio, and a realtime kernel in it's repository, allows non-root user to go online, and is very new-user friendly, with the finest easiest windows resizing/partitoning gui on the planet. Highly recommended, and on sale today! (free is a very good price!)
Reaper seems quite happy in pclos land!

Corazon, thanks for the heads up!

Alex.

Alex Stone
02-26-2008, 03:27 AM
To Dave,

Any news on a jconv GUI?

Alex.

Alex Stone
02-26-2008, 03:36 AM
Linuxsampler goes Jack!

LS is now full jack midi capable, and that raises the immediate question of how do we use multiple midiports into Wine/Reaper? (At least until Wine gets jack midi up and running smoothly.)

Answer. (Well, at least one way of doing this)

D/L a programme called Qtractor. It's a fast growing midi audio sequencer, but the bit we're interested in, is the ability to create multiple midi devices (ports), each with 16 channels.
Next, you'll need a2jmidid, if you don't already have it. This is a linking utility, that creates a link between alsa midi and jack midi in Jack, and if you're running qjackctl, you'll see a2j appear in the jack midi tab.
Good to go so far. with qtractor running, complete with multiple midi ports, you open up or 'explode' a2j, so you can see all the ports available, and Qtractor midi will appear, ready for cabling to Linuxsampler. (Qtractor in the left/output window, linuxsampler in the right/input window, all in the jack midi tab.)

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/25344/Screenshot-Connections-JACK-Audio-Connection-Kit.png

From here it's easy. Open Reaper, and your qtractor midi ports will appear, ready for assignment as hardware midi outputs, routed to linxsampler for glorious playback.

More to come...

Alex.

The link for a2jmidid

http://home.gna.org/a2jmidid/

StudioDave
02-26-2008, 03:53 AM
To Dave,

Any news on a jconv GUI?

Sorry, Alex, I've been preoccupied with LinuxSampler. It's all your fault. :)

I've sent Fons a message, hopefully I'll hear back from him today.

Alex Stone
02-26-2008, 03:58 AM
Sorry, Alex, I've been preoccupied with LinuxSampler. It's all your fault. :)

I've sent Fons a message, hopefully I'll hear back from him today.

Haha, i've put my hand up.
LS is certainly addictive!

Alex

:)

Alex Stone
02-26-2008, 04:18 AM
StudioDave,

I haven't tried any of the following yet. Just thought about making myself custom patches, or sf2 patches, so I've started to look around a little, too.

http://www.philharmonia.co.uk/thesoundexchange/sound_samples/sample_libraries/
http://www.philharmonia.co.uk/thesoundexchange/sound_samples/

http://theremin.music.uiowa.edu/MIS.html

http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/

http://www.oneshotsamples.com/

http://www.samplenet.co.uk/

http://www.sampleswap.org/

http://www.freewavesamples.com/

http://www.kara-moon.com/index.php?modid=mod02&l_submenu_id=m001_02_02

http://ccmixter.org/freesound/view/media/samples/browse

http://www.soundsnap.com/




http://home.deds.nl/~s4u_site/

http://www.soundcentral.com/

Jimmy

Jimmy, thanks very much for these links.
They'll be highly useful.

Alex.

StudioDave
02-26-2008, 05:28 AM
Any news on a jconv GUI?


Fons replied to my message this morning:

"Jconv is a general convolution tool, and a GUI for it would just
have to contain whatever is now in the config file - it wouldn't
be any easier to use. The obvious GUI would be to pop up the
user's $EDITOR...

Aella is still in the pipeline. Same engine but adapted for
reverb use. I attach a png of the prototype GUI."

So now we know. Aella's been indevelopment for a while, there's no telling when it might be done. :(

Alex Stone
02-26-2008, 05:33 AM
Fons replied to my message this morning:

"Jconv is a general convolution tool, and a GUI for it would just
have to contain whatever is now in the config file - it wouldn't
be any easier to use. The obvious GUI would be to pop up the
user's $EDITOR...

Aella is still in the pipeline. Same engine but adapted for
reverb use. I attach a png of the prototype GUI."

So now we know. Aella's been indevelopment for a while, there's no telling when it might be done. :(

Thanks for the update, Dave.
The Aella Gui looks interesting!

Alex.
:)

Alex Stone
02-26-2008, 05:49 AM
Dave, Just read the latest article.
The link for engraving was really interesting, but you have a dead link for gcomposer.

Edit: I'm going to add to this a wish, after reading your fine article. I've tried most of the notation eds for linux, and i've just D/L the latest Nted, and tried that. The professor is doing a fine job!

My wish is that, some time in the future, notation developers consider taking a step towards using ports for voices and staves, instead of what seems the standard approach of playback with soundfonts. So my Flute stave might have 4 voices, Legato, Staccato, Portato, and Non Vib, for example, and be able to be ported by voice/jack/midi to Linuxsampler, and out to Reaper.
So this particular staff would be Midi Port 1, with 4 midi channels.
And so on..........
It would, imho, be a big step forward to using a notation editor as a midi sequencer in effect, removed from the piano roll default, at least until the notation midi file is put into Reaper, or another programme, for further tweaking.
So a full score of, say, 32 Staves, would have 32 midi ports out, each with up to 16 channels, driving Linuxsampler, or indeed, other vehicles for playback. (Think about Rock Drums, Bass, etc.. in a score with a full orchestra, linuxsampler handling the orchestra, and some other programme doing the rock section..)

Alex.

Parchment Studios.

(Which started as a humorous and ironic reference to my fondness for really old fashioned technology, i.e. writing on manuscript, but seems to have gained a life of it's own. :) )

StudioDave
02-26-2008, 09:13 AM
Dave, Just read the latest article.
The link for engraving was really interesting, but you have a dead link for gcomposer.

Thanks, I wrote to the LAU list in hope of an update. Nothing yet though.

... i've just D/L the latest Nted, and tried that. The professor is doing a fine job!

NoteEdit was very nice too, it's since been carried forward in the Canorus project at https://canorus.berlios.de/wiki/index.php/Main_Page.

My wish is that, some time in the future, notation developers consider taking a step towards using ports for voices and staves, instead of what seems the standard approach of playback with soundfonts...[snip]


Agree++. Maybe you should bring it up with Werner Schweer ?

Parchment Studios

:)

Alex Stone
02-26-2008, 09:25 AM
Agree++. Maybe you should bring it up with Werner Schweer ?

:)

Yes, a good idea. I think i'll suggest the same to the other notation ed devs as well, and see what happens. It certainly can't hurt to have another option for playback.

Maybe they'll consider upping the number of voices available per staff. 32 per staff, all able to be ported out individually would take care of the strings as well.

Alex.

The journey continues.......

Alex Stone
02-26-2008, 02:54 PM
For those who enjoy the challenge of cvs updates, Qsampler is just updated, with:

Dedicated channel config midi selection alsa/jack (bugfix.)

Naming audio and midi ports in qsampler. (previously only available in fantasia. There's a rather cheeky Disney joke in there somewhere... :) )

Be sure to update liblscp as well.

Alex.

More to come!

lowkey
02-27-2008, 07:10 AM
Thanks for the heads up Alex :)