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Alex Stone
02-27-2008, 09:28 AM
Thanks for the heads up Alex :)
Lowkey,
You're welcome!
I'll keep trying to notify of updates as they come up, for programmes and utilities that may be useful to us.

Alex.

Alex Stone
03-02-2008, 06:35 AM
Here's another update that may make life considerably easier for us chaps.
Stephane, and the mighty team at Jackdmp (multiprocessor version of Jack) have updated to 0.70.
What's new?
http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/87296/Screenshot-Connections-JACK-Audio-Connection-Kitb.png

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/87295/Screenshot-Connections-JACK-Audio-Connection-Kita.png

For some time we've had to use dedicated link utilities to get Alsa and Jack midi to play with each other. Now, that ability is built in. In the Jack midi tab of Qjackctl, you'll see new icons labelled system, that are a direct picture of the alsa midi ports you have available. So if 14:Midi through shows up in Alsa midi, it's now has a 'mirror' in the jack midi tab. (Shown as midi capture for outs, and midi playback for ins.)
Last night, (alright, alright, well into early morning. :) ) i managed to successfully link my midi keyboard (Alsa midi) directly into a jack midi setup, and through to wine, seamlessly. Works a treat!

Woohoo!

More to come....

Alex.

p.s. If anyone's updated to 'standard' Jackd, can you check if this is the case as well, and maybe post back here?

Jack has just taken a BIG step forward.

And many thanks to Stephane and the team for providing us with these wonderful tools.

dahouse
03-08-2008, 01:35 PM
Hey Alex,

I really have to thank you for documenting your experiences with the penguin. Its really nice to have a metaphorical hill showing your goal at a distance while granting an overview of everything else.

I originally went to Linux hoping to make a realtime dsp system for live trumpet performance using Pd (or maybe now Max/MSP with Wine?) but these threads have really inspired me to create a fullout DAW out of my aging laptop.

Just a suggestion: Why don't you make a blog? This thread is awesome, but chances are many people overlook it if they aren't using reaper. Much of the information you post is relevant to the overall linux audio entity, not just Reaper + Wine. Furthermore, a blog would be a good way of consolidating information and would facilitate the access to information. This suggestion is really more out of my own self interest on my than anything else, but I would argue that it would progress the entire documentation of the linux audio experience, especially for artists/newbies who've never known a life of forum lurking.

This actually leads to an idea I've been mulling over for a while. I believe that Linux Audio is great overall and has now matured to the point where it is suitable for semi-pro work. But I think the overall problem is ease of use. I can setup a linux system in a week and have it running with reaper, jack, a RT Kernel, etc..., but I'm a geek with a gut. If my buddy Joe Jazz Pianist attempted the same thing, he'd have a fit. Although MacOSX and especially Windows aren't perfect, they're far easier than Linux FOR AUDIO (Ubuntu is easier for everything else). Linux Audio is at a point where the vast majority of the software is more than capable of the needed tasks, but to get it to the point where it can compete with other systems, linux developers must stop merely trying to program for other linux user and start programming for their mothers. People with an interest but no technical. That's the entire Mac philosophy, "it just works". With that philosophy, its easy to see why people gravitate towards Garage band. Setting up Logic isn't very hard either.

Macs' simplicity make them very popular and popularity is one of the things we should encourage in the linux audio world. If manufacturers were to see their would-be clientel turning to Linux, their little capitalist consciouses would kick in and start developing their products for us (probably drivers too!). I know this is dreaming in colour and far into the future, but it is founded is some truth!

Slowly, linux as a whole is loosing is geek image. People are starting to see that they can run the OS without putting on their geek hat. Perfect. But linux audio has not lost this stigma. Even with distros such as Ubuntu Studio, you're going to end up using the command line eventually, but at least its a start.

I'm not complaining, because I do believe all this audio stuff is way easier than it was before, I'm just thinking out loud that a new focus should be on simplicity and ease. The "it just works" philosophy should be a new priority at this state of maturity.

Alex Stone
03-09-2008, 09:40 AM
Dahouse, you are most welcome.

This journey of discovery started out precisely as an intent to use and learn about linux/audio from the perspective of īJoe Jazz Pianist.ī I would be the first to admit, i donīt know anything about coding, although this journey in itself has added to my desperately thin volume of knowledge about tux flavoured 1īs and 0īs.
So the intent was exactly as you wrote, a means of finding out how easy it was to install and use linux flavoured programmes from an average users point of view. I will also admit here that iīve used windows (I am deeply, deeply, ashamed) and Mac (will the shame never end?) for writing and recording music.
There are plusses and minuses on both sides, but, and i say this as someone who writes predominately classically oriented music (you know, the stuff you hear in elevators, supermarkets, and dodgy restaurants), linux is a major step forward here, in that, in the form of the mighty jack server, it presents to us the opportunity to use pretty well unlimited audio and midi ports, and it does this so well, that a LOT of Win/Mac related problems (Iīm still ashamed) simply cease to exist.
There are a few minuses for linux too. A distinct lack of enthusiasm on the part of HW manufacturers to produce the drivers or extensive documentation for their products. I STILL donīt understand this, and itīs likely i never will. (It just doesnīt make ANY sense.)
Next, and i will be frank here, the craftsmen developing linux programmes are an extremely talented bunch of chaps and chappettes. Iīve had the privilege of communicating with the likes of Paul, Fons, Stephane, Lars, Christian, Nedko, Dmitri, Benno, Rui, Grigor, and a bunch of other people whoīs skills continue to amaze me, and for whom i have an immense respect. I also feel the same about about Justin and the Reaper team, precisely because they not only wrote a great programme, but they didnīt cripple it so it wouldnīt work in a linux environment, albeit through Wine.

Aside from the ingenious move of Reaper enabling the users to develop their own themes, linux programmes tend to suffer at the point of user appearance, and i add here, i think thatīs unfair. Imho, weīve been conditioned across the audio computer world in particular to work with pictures, so when a great programme has a functional, rather than beautiful interface, our impression is often based on this, instead of the genius code work inside. Iīve discovered quite a few programmes in linux that work spectacularly well, at levels far in excess of equivalent Win/Mac progs (The shame is slowly dissipating) but are not exactly beauty queens. Iīm not one to stoke the fire, while staring at the mantlepiece, so to speak, and get along fine with functional appearance, but iīd be fairly safe in saying a lot of users tend to stay away from linux and itīs huge user potential for this reason more than any other. So the craftsmen building this stuff could do themselves more justice for their fine work, if they paid a little more attention to the polish on the bonnet.
I recently tuned into the Linux Audio Conference 2008 online, and had the notebook out to see what i could learn. I was lost most of the time, as the level of discussion was WAY over my knowledge base, but across the board, there were a room full of bright talented people staring at code on the screen. The few GUI that appeared were, in the main, functional, and fairly obviously written by those for whom a screen full of code is a picture in itself. Itīs somewhat unfortunate, but a reasonable reality, that appearance plays a big part in the gap between commercial offerings, and the perception of linux programmes, imho.

There are bright spots in this though. The fine team at Linuxsampler have done a good job of Fantasia as a Frontend (oooh,linux lingo there, i feel more powerful already) and the readily usable qsampler. Ardour too is a decent interface with which a user can interact. Thereīs also a stunning organ synthesiser called Aeolus by Fons, that is good to look at, and clearly laid out. If any linux users donīt have this in their armoury, then they are missing out, big time. Itīs so real!


Iīve documented much of this here already, and letīs not forget, there are many others here who have contributed in a big way to this ongoing journey, with expertise, advice, questions, and humour.

As for a blog, iīm not smart enough a coder to build a programme that gives me 28 hours in the day, lol. If i could, i would have built this a LONG time ago. Maybe in the future, but itīs busy times at the moment. :)
I will agree with you that linux/audio could always do with more exposure.
I will also agree, from recent experience, that linux audio in 2008 is a LOT easier to install and use, (with a nod of respect here to the Ubuntu team who have facilitated much of the movement toward usuability for more of us), and a lot less geeky than it appeared some time ago. Changing perceptions in a wider audience will be challenging, and there are always those for whom a stock standard install and use with īpretty picturesī will be a priority, but iīve been pleasantly surprised how many there are of īusī, who are prepared to work a little more than usual for what i consider a far greater reward.
Itīs been said more than once that Linux is īnearly there.ī I would refute that and counter with, itīs already there, often superior in functionality, but is perceived as nearly there because of the interface impression. UBStudio, among others, has set a new pace here, so letīs hope the devs get to grips with, and embrace, this particular aspect, and do their fine work even more justice.

Alex.

The journey continues...!

404NotFound
03-27-2008, 06:27 PM
I'd like to bump this wonderful thread :)

If you have got large projects with many files (I'm not speaking of dozens, i'm speaking of hundreds), make sure to add something like

@audio - nofile 4096

to /etc/security/limits.conf.

I was propably the first one who experienced this problem - random files went offline during yesterday's recording session, I wasn't even able to save anything (audio, peaks or projects) to the disk.

Thanks to Justin's help I found out what the problem was: There's a limit on open files per application. It's 1024 files by default, the line above increases it to 4096 files.

lowkey
03-29-2008, 06:52 AM
Hi Alex :)

Hows the journey going?

ps: Thanks for the tip 404 :D

spmbtng
03-29-2008, 03:10 PM
This is computer audio related, I guess I should spread the word.

It seems to me a fiasco is unfolding for Creative Lab over their sound card device drivers for Vista. If you read through the comments at slashdot, or creative forum you will also see past shady marketting claims for their various products. The news is on slashdot.org, digg.com, reddit.com and others, too. The first link is on creative.com itself, already has well over 20 pages.

http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?board.id=soundblaster&thread.id=116332&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/08/03/29/046201.shtml


I have seen such practices many years ago with sound card, modem card, video card, scanner, printer, and Windows, too... I decide not to be the idot who keeps paying such companies any more. "Planned obslescent" was a word in some fields, but it has been turned into "forced obslescent" by marketing witches and bean counters. Of course, opensource users can still make donations to which ever opensource projects, or developers you choose, or even to the FSF (Free Software Foundation) which has been offering legal aids to some opensource projects and developers.

Jimmy

Alex Stone
03-30-2008, 06:52 AM
Hi Alex :)

Hows the journey going?

ps: Thanks for the tip 404 :D

Hehe, it's going well, and thanks for asking. I've climbed the first linux learning mountain realtively unscathed, and i'm writing like mad at the moment, ergo i've been a bit quieter here.

Life's good!

Alex.

:)

Alex Stone
03-30-2008, 06:53 AM
I'd like to bump this wonderful thread :)

If you have got large projects with many files (I'm not speaking of dozens, i'm speaking of hundreds), make sure to add something like

@audio - nofile 4096

to /etc/security/limits.conf.

I was propably the first one who experienced this problem - random files went offline during yesterday's recording session, I wasn't even able to save anything (audio, peaks or projects) to the disk.

Thanks to Justin's help I found out what the problem was: There's a limit on open files per application. It's 1024 files by default, the line above increases it to 4096 files.

Nice tip 404, thanks.

Works for other stuff too.

Alex.

:)

Alex Stone
03-30-2008, 06:55 AM
This is computer audio related, I guess I should spread the word.

It seems to me a fiasco is unfolding for Creative Lab over their sound card device drivers for Vista. If you read through the comments at slashdot, or creative forum you will also see past shady marketting claims for their various products. The news is on slashdot.org, digg.com, reddit.com and others, too. The first link is on creative.com itself, already has well over 20 pages.

http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?board.id=soundblaster&thread.id=116332&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/08/03/29/046201.shtml


I have seen such practices many years ago with sound card, modem card, video card, scanner, printer, and Windows, too... I decide not to be the idot who keeps paying such companies any more. "Planned obslescent" was a word in some fields, but it has been turned into "forced obslescent" by marketing witches and bean counters. Of course, opensource users can still make donations to which ever opensource projects, or developers you choose, or even to the FSF (Free Software Foundation) which has been offering legal aids to some opensource projects and developers.

Jimmy

Jimmy, thanks for the heads up.

Man, that's an exercise on how to shoot yourself in the foot, and get caught being less than honourable.

Interesting reading, but rather sadly i guess, not all that surprising.

Alex.

daverich
03-30-2008, 08:57 AM
Jimmy, thanks for the heads up.

Man, that's an exercise on how to shoot yourself in the foot, and get caught being less than honourable.

Interesting reading, but rather sadly i guess, not all that surprising.

Alex.

creative, and indeed Emu are awful companies.

It is to my shame that I own a 1212m ;)

That said,- what better bed-fellows than creative and vista :D

Kind regards

Dave Rich

Alex Stone
04-03-2008, 08:20 AM
Sorry about the title lol, just trying to get up with the 21st century speak.

However, i'm pleased to post an update about Mscore, and annouce that midi out to ports and channels is now a reality! So all you erstwhile explorers into the dynamic world of Linuxsampler and Reaper can now write your notes the old fashioned way, and get great playback as well!

Yes friends, it's true. With 4 voices per staff at the moment, and up to 8 ports and channels you wish to assign (at this stage), you can get a great playback for your much cherished parchment input.

All of this has been possible from svn, so for those who use this excellent system of updating, it's there ready for you.

NOTE:
Mscore accesses the RTC timer for midi directly. So if you select midi out to linuxsampler and reaper, be aware you'll need to make sure nothing else is using the rtc timer first. (The rtc timer can only be accessed by one programme at a time.) In my case, the Alsa midi seq in Qjackctl uses RTC by default, and after some challenging moments and research, i discovered starting Mscore first before Jack/Alsa works. It's also worth noting, that even if Mscore grabs the RTc timer first, Alsa seq still runs ok, so i assume that it goes to the next default, which in my case i suspect is, system timer. Please note that rosegarden does the same, so if you're likely to get an RTC timer conflict, RG now has other options for a timing source. (Nice work on the part of Chris, and the team.)


Mscore,an already fast maturing programme has taken another big step forward, and the current pace of updates is akin to Reaper standards, which says a lot for Werner Schweer and his small team, and their determined effort to provide us mere mortals with an excellent notation programme.

My thanks to them all,

Alex.

:)

p.s..... Woohoo!!

Alex Stone
04-04-2008, 07:40 AM
In between gigs, i've been researching how to set up a blog, and have taken the first step. I intend to add profiles of different programmes, tools, utilities, and general musing about music,composing, computers, life, etc.. in general.
Here's the link, and you're welcome to contribute useful info if you want.

Hehe, we'll see what happens.

Alex.

http://tuxical.blogspot.com/

p.s. Justin, i've added a link for Reaper, but if this is a problem, let me know and i'll remove it.

Alex Stone
04-05-2008, 02:11 AM
After quite a few efforts from different directions, i'll have to pause this for the time being, that being trying to use autohotkey in linux, through wine into Reaper.
The challenge lies not with AHK or Wine/Reaper, but the way linux handles qwerty keyboards. (At least that's my discovery from experimenting)
Time's a bit short at the moment, but i will at some time in the future revisit this, and research the possibility of using a linux 'equivalent' of AHK.

Sorry Shan, i tried.


Alex.

The journey continues.....

Alex Stone
04-10-2008, 04:27 AM
A quick heads up for fellow Tux heads out there, Jack 2.0 is rumoured to be well advanced, and i'll post more as i get more info.
Also, for those that weren't aware, Stephane Letz has built a Windows version of Jack. It's not widely known at the moment,and there's still a little more to do, but i'll follow up with more news as i get it. Good news for all those poor souls giving Blinky Bill their cash, yes?

:)

Alex.

Alex Stone
04-10-2008, 04:38 AM
I have a much used and abused museum piece, known as a G4 powerbook (titanium.) This laptop has already done good service, and travelled quite a few miles in its OSX incarnation. However it's a PPC, which means almost inevitably it'll be a toaster and little else, as Steve Jobs and his merry maniacs pursue Intel opportunities further.

So, in the spirit of not wasting this old but reliable resource, i dumped the OSX bloat, and installed Fedora8, PPC version.

Wow.

Like a startled gazelle, the old G4 flared its nostrils, snorted enthusiastically, and took off at a sprint. I was astonished at how easy F8 was to install, and how much leaner and meaner the laptop performs. I still face a significant challenge getting the sound working, as the alsa driver, snd-powermac, has some issues, particularly with a .20 version kernel, but as the saying goes, persistence is the key to success, and i'm sure i'll find a way. but as i intend to use the G4/Fedora for admin in the main, this isn't exactly a pressing issue.

If you've got an old mac lying around collecting dust, and want to give it a burst of life, then may be it's worth considering a linux pedigree spring clean. There is a small collection of distros available for PPC, and each have a team of diehard faithfuls keeping the PPC architecture alive. Fedora, Ubuntu and Gentoo to name just three. I opted for the Fedora version as i already have Ubuntu on the studio box, and i wanted to expand my horizons.

More to come!

Alex.

p.s. The more i get into it, and the more i learn, the more i realise something very significant.

Linux Rocks.

lowkey
04-10-2008, 05:57 AM
Thanks for the heads up on Jack 2.0 Alex. Your Blog is looking good, Ive book marked it. :D

I was looking into getting a 13ins Powerbook before the eeepc was released. Thanks to Apple's planned obsolescence it's never looked so bright for Penguista :D

marce
04-10-2008, 10:32 AM
If you want this features, wich distribution you would install?

-Automatic recognition of new partitions, and mounting (i added a new hardisk and partitioned it with gparted from an ubuntu live cd, and they are not automatically recognized by JAD)

-A realtime kernel that can be used simultaneusly with the nVidia drivers (JAD is unable to do that, check the jad forum my post)

-preconfigured for wineasio and audio programs

-with a nice boot manager.

Is ubuntu studio better than Jad? I accept to spend my time tweaking the audio programs, but not that any time i need to do basic things, surf trough lots of problems.

lowkey
04-10-2008, 11:00 AM
Try the 32bit Studio64 live CD. It has allot of tweaking already done. I use Ubuntu Studio. I needed to set it up but I didn't mind doing so.

404NotFound
04-10-2008, 03:31 PM
++1 for 64studio. JAD is a piece of shit :D (pure unjustified rant because i'm waiting for the JAD guys to answer my last question in this (http://www.audio4linux.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4443#4443) post)

Also check the tutorial linked in my sig.

norbury brook
04-10-2008, 04:26 PM
surely the distro wont matter regarding the real time kernel and Nvidea driver issue as the kernel is the same. I have the same problem with ATI drivers and RT kernels at the moment they just dont work well, i spent a week,yes a week trying to get decent graphics performance with a RT kernel and gave up, its fine on a generic 2.6


MC

marce
04-10-2008, 05:09 PM
Thanks both for the tips! will try

surely the distro wont matter regarding the real time kernel and Nvidea driver issue as the kernel is the same. I have the same problem with ATI drivers and RT kernels at the moment they just dont work well, i spent a week,yes a week trying to get decent graphics performance with a RT kernel and gave up, its fine on a generic 2.6


MC

That`s a bad news, the so slow graphic performance makes hard to work well in the enviroment.

blitze
04-10-2008, 11:19 PM
creative, and indeed Emu are awful companies.

It is to my shame that I own a 1212m ;)

That said,- what better bed-fellows than creative and vista :D

Kind regards

Dave Rich

I have my Echo Gina 3G running nicely on Vista x64 with great and upto date support from Echo Audio. Wouldn't touch anything by Creative with a barge pole and this has been my feelings towards them for over a decade. They just, unfortunately, were adopted as a defacto standard.

That being said, Linux audio just isn't there for the masses. If you are keen on playing around to get things working then go for it but if you want something that just works then try another platform.

By the time they get Linux decent for audio work, Haiku will be on the scene and much nicer.

In the meantime, it's Vista for moi.

lowkey
04-11-2008, 06:39 AM
I have my Echo Gina 3G running nicely on Vista x64 with great and upto date support from Echo Audio. Wouldn't touch anything by Creative with a barge pole and this has been my feelings towards them for over a decade. They just, unfortunately, were adopted as a defacto standard.

That being said, Linux audio just isn't there for the masses. If you are keen on playing around to get things working then go for it but if you want something that just works then try another platform.

By the time they get Linux decent for audio work, Haiku will be on the scene and much nicer.

In the meantime, it's Vista for moi.

Cool :)

I'm going to assume you've tried Linux at some point and used your own brain to come to the above.

Which distro did you try and what problems did you have? The more the developers know the better for everyone.

Alex Stone
04-11-2008, 08:12 AM
Finally after what seem like a pursuit of code, and packages, to the centre of the earth, i've managed to solve at least part of the riddle of getting the snd-powermac module working on a old time new world G4 laptop. (Or is it a new old time new world old mac? Erm..)
The secret was cunningly hidden away in a kernel bug for the '.20-24' kernel series.

A brief history. I installed Fedora8 on my vintage (circa 2002, positively ancient) G4 Titanium laptop. It all went swimmingly but for the sound. snd-powermac frankly told me to go away whn i attempted to get it going with some music. But after much research, no sleep, no pizza, and no idea how to go forward, i got in contact with a couple of chaps in the Fedora PPC irc, one of whom ran this very module on the same laptop. He'd had it running for some time, and after a lengthy discussion about Fedora, PPC, climbing Everest, and the art of gazing fondly at attractive ladies, he explained that a patch had been applied to the snd-powermac module, designed to get it talking with late model kernels, but after the first .25 version. I then went mad D/L up to date packages for my unsuspecting G4, and slowly but surely built a working configuration that would work. That moment came when i hit update kernel, and it all took off.

Then, that nervous, fear inducing decision time. Reboot.
Would i keel over from exhaustion? Would my Xorg give up the ghost? And most importantly of all, would the SOUND work?

And it did!

I was beside myself. I'd pulled out and crushed to death all the pulseaudio stuff, so it was just alsa and me, and no turning back short of a reinstall.
The serene pleasure of the fruits of much labour came singing sonorously through the headphones, as Beethoven majestically congratulated me on my persistence with the magnificence of the 9th symphony.

I'd like to thank Dw and Izo for their patience, and thoughtful prompts at the right time. They didn't do all this by rote, but headed me in the general direction, and like a rampant polar bear off i went.

So, with the development kernel from the Fedora9 beta repository, and a few swapped packages, me and my PPC G4 are up and running, and Beethoven can once again remind me and the rest of the planet why he's the maestro, and most of todays pop music really sucks.

I now have a 'refurbished' Laptop that runs much better than it did before, with my favourite OS humming away nicely, and giving me the chance to take tux on the road.

Now i'm off to load up some audio packages and see just how nimble the old girl is with a bit of a hammering.

Alex.

"Never give up! Never surrender!"

:)

Alex Stone
04-14-2008, 12:23 AM
After a few more tweaks (usual jack and alsa stuff) the laptop is now humming along as if it had always been that way. For an old G4 it's remarkably nimble with a shiny new OS.

Sadly, i haven't found a version of Wine for Linux/PPC yet, so no Reaper just yet.

But i've asked the Q of those that know, so we'll see what comes next.

Alex.

p.s. Rosegarden. Ardour, Fluidsynth, etc, all work ok, and are recent builds. Fedora seem to be pretty quick at getting this stuff ported and out to the users. Jack is 109.2, and alsa is the latest build, 016.

:)

edit: A quick heads up. Fedora 9 is out in about 15 days, and seems to be already working pretty well (according to reports in their forums, and irc.) Anyone considering trying this distro might like to wait a couple of weeks, and take advantage of a new build release. The PPC version is on my radar, and after talking with the PPC port Devs, they've done a lot to streamline the audio stuff and get it working properly.

404NotFound
04-14-2008, 01:01 AM
Sorry, but Wine will never work on PPC because Windows applications are build for the x86 CPU layout. Remember - Wine is not an emulator, it's more like a graphics toolkit like GTK and QT. It doesn't emulate a x86 CPU.

Alex Stone
04-14-2008, 02:03 AM
Sorry, but Wine will never work on PPC because Windows applications are build for the x86 CPU layout. Remember - Wine is not an emulator, it's more like a graphics toolkit like GTK and QT. It doesn't emulate a x86 CPU.

404, thanks for the info. I was aware of the win connection, but i kinda hoped that some brave and clever soul had done some serious code voodoo,and defied the laws of digital physics.

Alex.

:)

StudioDave
04-14-2008, 03:32 AM
... i kinda hoped that some brave and clever soul had done some serious code voodoo,and defied the laws of digital physics.

You checked Google, of course ?

http://lists.terrasoftsolutions.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/2004-June/014468.html

That one came up on a search for "wine on ppc". It looks like you'll need an emulator like QEMU.

Alex Stone
04-14-2008, 04:34 AM
You checked Google, of course ?

http://lists.terrasoftsolutions.com/pipermail/yellowdog-general/2004-June/014468.html

That one came up on a search for "wine on ppc". It looks like you'll need an emulator like QEMU.

Dave, i did think about that. And saw a couple of sites pertaining to this. But my little G4, while taking to Fedora like a duck to water, is modest in means, and i think a bit underpowered for a virtual emulator as well.

I still have Reaper on the main box, and who knows? One day we may be able to run Reaper from a usb stick in Linux as well. (4GB stick with linuxsampler, and a modest set of gigs. Hmmm.)

Alex.

More to come in this remarkable and sometimes perilous journey!

:)

marce
04-14-2008, 06:25 PM
++1 for 64studio. JAD is a piece of shit :D (pure unjustified rant because i'm waiting for the JAD guys to answer my last question in this (http://www.audio4linux.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=4443#4443) post)

Also check the tutorial linked in my sig.

I have downloaded the ISO image 3 times, and all them gives me incorrect md4 checksums... i usually dont have that kind of problems, i have tryed diffrent mirrors, and even diffrent internet providers... but no luck.
Im using Free Download Manager, and using 4 simultaneous conections. Maybe using just one?...
Any tip?

spmbtng
04-15-2008, 05:00 AM
I have downloaded the ISO image 3 times, and all them gives me incorrect md4 checksums... i usually dont have that kind of problems, i have tryed diffrent mirrors, and even diffrent internet providers... but no luck.
Im using Free Download Manager, and using 4 simultaneous conections. Maybe using just one?...
Any tip?



Well, it may not be their problem per se.

Something similar happened to me when I downloaded 3-4 different images of a Sidux Distro (Debian compatible). All of them have different md5sum result. I posted a question on their forum and asked if someone can verify the md5sum of some of those images. Someone did verify them and the ones in question gave them correct md5sum. There was a suggestion made to me to try rsync. I have heard of rsync before but never tried it and didn't know how effective that thing would be.

So I got rsync, read the man page. Then I copied one of those bad ISO I alread downloaded. Use rsync to update/overwrite that copy, using one of the rsync server that has a copy of the ISO. Rsync basically compare the binary blocks of data and only download the binary differences, saving lots of bandwith and download time. And rsync did it. I finally had a good ISO with the right md5sum. So I updated my question and changed the titled to "[solved]", hope that some other folks who do web search may stumble on it with the right keywords.

If they have some rsync server with that file for you to download, try it. If they only have ftp and http server then maybe you can make a suggestion for them to have one or two rsync servers. I know some Linux distros also have bit-torrent but I have never tried torrents so I don't know if it works simply like ftp/http, or more like rsync.

I could only theorize that that particular hard drive of mine was starting to go bad slowly somewhere. But I haven't used that drive much since, it was a spare one.

Good luck.

Jimmy

marce
04-15-2008, 07:10 AM
Well, it may not be their problem per se.

Something similar happened to me when I downloaded 3-4 different images of a Sidux Distro (Debian compatible). All of them have different md5sum result. I posted a question on their forum and asked if someone can verify the md5sum of some of those images. Someone did verify them and the ones in question gave them correct md5sum. There was a suggestion made to me to try rsync. I have heard of rsync before but never tried it and didn't know how effective that thing would be.

So I got rsync, read the man page. Then I copied one of those bad ISO I alread downloaded. Use rsync to update/overwrite that copy, using one of the rsync server that has a copy of the ISO. Rsync basically compare the binary blocks of data and only download the binary differences, saving lots of bandwith and download time. And rsync did it. I finally had a good ISO with the right md5sum. So I updated my question and changed the titled to "[solved]", hope that some other folks who do web search may stumble on it with the right keywords.

If they have some rsync server with that file for you to download, try it. If they only have ftp and http server then maybe you can make a suggestion for them to have one or two rsync servers. I know some Linux distros also have bit-torrent but I have never tried torrents so I don't know if it works simply like ftp/http, or more like rsync.

I could only theorize that that particular hard drive of mine was starting to go bad slowly somewhere. But I haven't used that drive much since, it was a spare one.

Good luck.

Jimmy

Thanks Jimmy your answer. Unforunely i hadnt acces to their forum, i registered days ago but never got a confirmation mail, so i cant post there to request the rsync feature.
Im currently using another download manager, i will see if that solves something.
Thanks again!

spmbtng
04-15-2008, 08:17 AM
Thanks Jimmy your answer. Unforunely i hadnt acces to their forum, i registered days ago but never got a confirmation mail, so i cant post there to request the rsync feature.
Im currently using another download manager, i will see if that solves something.
Thanks again!



If they have an rsync server, it would have been listed as one of their mirrored servers for download. You may want to take another look.

If you can, try on a different physical drive, or at least a different partition. Just in case that drive/partition is going bad. I.e. it got all the correct data originally, but after writing on disk, reading back the data gives different results. It could be worse if md5sum gives different results on the same file every time.

On download manager(s), some of those on windows are adwares (or spyware???).

I use wget. I have seen some variations of wget commandline and GUI for win32 out there.

My wget usage is:

wget -U "test" -k -x -np -nc http://whatever
wget -U "test" -k -x -np -nc ftp://whatever

Some web sites may refuse to serve wget if you don't use the

-U "test"

<EDIT>
Because the default user-agent string from wget is rejected by the server. Not because they must serve the user-agent string "test".
</EDIT>

Of course, you can change "test" to "whatever you like". You can read the manpage for wget for the other parameters I use.

If the connection is severed somehow (especially the latenight, or weekend server reboots), I tell wget to resume using the -c (continue) instead of -nc (don't do anything if the file exists locally):

wget -U "test" -k -x -np -c http://whatever

Hope things work out for you.

Jimmy

marce
04-15-2008, 10:29 AM
Thanks Jimmy your answers and time! the downloader im using is an open source one, freedownloadmanager, and i downloaded it to diffrent disks in diffrent computers.
I reviewed the mirrors and servers links looking for rsync, and no rsync one, but there are ones called "METALINKS". I googled a little, and appear that metalink " include automatic checksum verification of finished downloads, automatic repair of downloads with errors". So, it appear similar to the rsync thing. I will try that

edit: here is some info about wht is the metalink thing:
http://www.metalinker.org/

spmbtng
04-15-2008, 10:53 AM
Thanks Jimmy your answers and time! the downloader im using is an open source one, freedownloadmanager, and i downloaded it to diffrent disks in diffrent computers.
I reviewed the mirrors and servers links looking for rsync, and no rsync one, but there are ones called "METALINKS". I googled a little, and appear that metalink " include automatic checksum verification of finished downloads, automatic repair of downloads with errors". So, it appear similar to the rsync thing. I will try that


You're most welcome.

Metalink... Hmm...

Hey another tool for the tool box here. Sounds good with the web search results for it. It sounds like the same technique(s) rsync has for automatic repair. Also saw aria2 along with others. Then I did

apt-cache search metalink

(I'm using Debian here). And there, aria2 is the only thing listed for now.

aria2 - High speed download utility

Good to know.

Jimmy

marce
04-15-2008, 02:47 PM
You're most welcome.

Metalink... Hmm...

Hey another tool for the tool box here. Sounds good with the web search results for it. It sounds like the same technique(s) rsync has for automatic repair. Also saw aria2 along with others. Then I did

apt-cache search metalink

(I'm using Debian here). And there, aria2 is the only thing listed for now.

aria2 - High speed download utility

Good to know.

Jimmy

Hi Jimmy. According with this wikipedia site, there exists some other tools for linux,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalink

BTW, i solved my problem, thanks for the rsync tip, it guide me to the light ;) i have now a valid download! Want to install it now.

spmbtng
04-15-2008, 07:18 PM
Hi Jimmy. According with this wikipedia site, there exists some other tools for linux,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metalink

BTW, i solved my problem, thanks for the rsync tip, it guide me to the light ;) i have now a valid download! Want to install it now.




Marce, good to hear. And by all means, blame it on Alex and his brain-washing us with: "Never give up! Never surrender!" ;-)

Yeah, I saw other Metalink Linux apps, too. It was just a quick check to see if Debian folks have any apps already in their repositories with Metalink support. Having used debian for a little while, I kind of like the pre-compiled apps, and let Debian worked out all the dependencies. I only compile as little as I can get away with :-). If I prefer to compile everything then Gentoo, or other source-based distros would fit the bill.

Jimmy

Alex Stone
04-22-2008, 05:44 AM
After a challenging time learning much about Fedora and the PPC version specifically, and the plusses and minuses of that particular OS, i decided to take a different tack, and expand the horizons. I did a lot of work to get Fedora working on the vintage G4 laptop, and i encountered quite a few challenges along the way. (with a lot of enjoyment gained from the learning curve.) I really enjoyed using Fedora, and it has much to admire, but the range of audio related programmes for the PPC version are limited, and that was my prime criteria.

So, where next for my old G4? PPC in itself is challenging in this overwhelmingly intel environment, and the options outside of osx are limited.

Step in Opensuse 10.3 for PPC.
After D/L, burning the image, and setting the G4 install on it's way, i was poised, waiting for the inevitable stream of error messages, and challenges.

But it just......worked.

From 'install' to complete with a full install dvd, it took about 50 minutes, which is pretty good, when you consider once Win is installed, you need to go hunting for drivers, etc...
Opensuse had everything on the DVD for 10.3, and about ten minutes after install was complete, i was online with a DSL connection. It's really easy to find your way around, and as my intent was using the G4 for admin, and when i travel, i wasn't exactly going to give it a caning.

The only challenge was the version of Alsa (.14) not working with the 10.3 .22-17 kernel. I solved that with an Alsa install from source (.16), and a tweak or two in the /etc/sysconfig file. Jack went in ok too, and withan update from the Packman repository, got me to 109.2, which is a recent build.

I'm quite impressed with this. Suse works, and i don't need to don the tinfoil hat to do stuff. There's a big selection of packages,and i was pleasantly surprised last night when i got Linuxsampler/Qsampler installed. The G4 has a 867mhz cpu, with 512mb of ram, so i'm not going to be running big gig libraries, but i've got a couple of really light collections that will do the trick nicely, and enable me to write draft score on the move. I now have a score editor, sequencer, soundfont player, and sampler installed, that work, without jumping through hoops.

I miss having an RT kernel to run Jack and Alsa at low latency, but that's life, and for a drafting travel laptop, i can live with the bigger latency, for midi at least. I haven't yet found an RT kernel for PPC, but if i do, i'll be even further ahead. And sadly, i can't run Wine on the PPC HW architecture, so no Reaper on the move just yet.

Nice work to the team from Suse, at least from my personal experience. A good job well done, and a worthy alternative to other OS's for general, everyday use. It's easier (imho) to setup and use than Fedora, and for the average user, might be good alternative to revive old mac gear, into an extended life.

More to follow,

Alex.
"Never give up, never surrender!"

Alex Stone
04-22-2008, 06:24 AM
Some programme News.

Musescore.

This is a favourite of mine, and i'm an unashamed admirer of Werner's work, and his relentless drive to improve Mscore. It's at the centre of "Parchment Studios' and has been for while, but Werner continues to add and develop, finetuning, and introducing new components. As i wrote in anearlier post, Mscore now has midi outs to the soundsource of your choice, and i've succesfully recorded midi out from mscore into reaper/wine, using linuxsampler as the soundsource. It works, and continues to gain strength, and stability. No notation editor is perfect, and all of them have strengths and weaknesses, but mscore holds it own, and given Werner's attitude and skill, i look forward to seeing this programme go even further.

Linuxsampler.

Christian and the team continue to refine this great sampler,and there's much to look forward to in the relatively recent future. It's also at the heart of my workflow, around which everything else revolves. Both Qsampler, and the Java alternative Fantasia work well, and i've got to the stage where i start the sampler first thing in the morning, and turn it off last thing at night. It doesn't crash, stumble, or cough, but just works, day after day. I've built a collection of templates, and with the mighty Jack have startup scripts that get me going quickly. As i have quite a substantial box for working with, my standard linuxsampler template is big, and includes almost everything i need to write all manner of music styles.

Jack.
This server continues to amaze me with it's useability and stability. It's a mighty bit of software, and essential for bringing everything together across a number of programmes and ports. The massive number of ports available, and the almost unlimited number of user options for routing gives Jack, imho, the number one spot for a musician's essential components in Linux, OSX, and just recently, Windows. As of a short time ago, the Jack team have introduced not only Jack midi, but Netjack as well, a component to route audio and midi across boxes, and provide a link between 'Jacks'. More to follow on this as i experiment further, and make all the mistakes before you chaps do.

Alsa.
Alsa is now up to build 0.16, and there have been many patches, and updates between this build and the previous one. It's quite a jump, but importantly, some older modules have had work done tidying them up, and dealing with bugs, and glitches. I installed this recently not only on my laptop, but in the parchment box as well, and the Alsa teamhave done a good job of polishing and refining. I look forward to seeing what they come up with next.

Pulseaudio
As Jack is to the discerning user, pulseaudio is to the 'average' user. (no offence intended at all.) I'll be frank here, Jack is a far better option for me, is more stable, and doesn't have the challenges that PA does. I appreciate this is a work in progress, but there's quite a way to go before they can claim the stability of a well tuned jack and alsa setup. This is strictly a personal view from my own experience, but i pulled out and uninstalled all the pulseaudio stuff, and both computers ran a lot better without it. I wish the pulseaudio team well, as the concept is sound (imho), but some focus on stability, and an improvement in user interface for setup, etc.. could prove more useful. Some basic configuration tools would be good, and some sort of 'restart server' button would go a long way to making it easier to setup and use. I would also question Distros using pulseaudio as a default install, and respectfully suggest they build to give users a range of options at install time.
I didn't have a good experience with PA on either computer, and found it too fiddly and twitchy to use. I would hope others who try this have a better experience than i did.

More to come,

Alex.

Bleeding edge? I LIVE for it......!

spmbtng
04-22-2008, 10:52 AM
After a challenging time learning much about Fedora and the PPC version specifically, and the plusses and minuses of that particular OS,

<snip...>

I miss having an RT kernel to run Jack and Alsa at low latency, but that's life, and for a drafting travel laptop, i can live with the bigger latency, for midi at least. I haven't yet found an RT kernel for PPC, but if i do, i'll be even further ahead. And sadly, i can't run Wine on the PPC HW architecture, so no Reaper on the move just yet.

<snip...>







Hi Alex,

That's good progress for your G4. I don't have Mac, or PPC hardwares to even try. About Redhat, their bread and butter is on the server side, so they probably don't deal much with desktop, or serious audio apps, in comparison with other distros -- at least that's my impression.

Anyway, do you have Linux on the G4 exclusively on the hard drive, or you dual-boot (with OS-X???). What kind of boot manager do you use?

The last 1 or 2 releases of the kernel (2.6.25, 2.6.24), I'm pretty sure already has high-resolution timer, full preempt, and maybe one of the realtime patch-set merged in. It may not be enabled in the stock (pre-compiled) kernel for your distro or officially supporte by the distro maker. But can try to compile your own kernel with support for preempt, or high-resolution timer, or realtime patch, or combination of those. Of course, I don't know specifically if any of those will work with your PPC hardware.

That said, you can compile your own kernel, just have to enable the particular configuration options for the kernel before compiling. The same Linux install can have multiple kernels installed. you just use the boot manager to select which kernel to run at boot time. Yes, you can even have multiple kernels with the same base level (i.e, 2.6.25.001_rt_test, 2.6.25.1, 2.6.25.1_preempt, ...) At times, I change the postfix of the kernel name if I want to try the same kernel version, but with slightly different kernel-configuration options.

Just beware that for an 800-900 MHz CPU, it could take some 4-6 hours to compile a recent kernel. I didn't keep tab, but I compiled an x86 kernel (2.6.21, or 2.6.23) on a 2.2-2.4 GHz and it took some 90-100 minutes just for compiling my particular kernel configuration. It also depends on how much hardware support that was enabled in the kernel config file. Some of those hardware may not be on that particular machine, but most distro's enabled them in the config file so their distro will run on as many hardware as possible.

It is easiest to get the kernel-config file from an already working kernel -- you may already have it as /proc/config.gz . So you know all the hard parts are already done. I have tried configuring a kernel from scratch and sometimes it works, sometime it doesn't boot -- most likely because of some configuration dependencies that I may not have enabled. There is an option to include the config file with the newly compiled kernel, that will show up as /proc/config.gz when you run that kernel.

For the specific real-time support options in the kernel, there are many instructions already on the net. Though some are getting somewhat obsolete. I use the instructions from some posting at sidux.com forum for a couple of releases back. Search their English forum for "real-time kernel" for it. Let me know if you can't find it.

Jimmy

spmbtng
04-23-2008, 07:27 AM
For those looking for sound patches a while back, there's also:

freepats.opensrc.org/

On other notes, I ran into linuxmusicians.com yesterday. It is free as far as I can tell, and has a few forum sections. Seems like a fairly new site, or a small crowd at the moment.

I'm not affiliated with that site. Not even a member of the site yet, don't know if that may change in the future. [--EDIT--] I mean to get an account there, just as I have here at cockos.com/ [--/EDIT--]

Jimmy

Alex Stone
04-23-2008, 03:43 PM
Jimmy,
A big thank you for the heads up. I have suse10.3 64bit installed, and with an RT kernel to boot, with the latest builds of Alsa and Jack humming along nicely.

Now i'm going through all my notes and recompiling my programmes with correct CXXFLAGS, etc...

It's interesting for me at this point,that my first linux adventure took about 4 weeks to a fairly well tuned and stable box. This one is going to take me about a day or two.

I'm still mindful of the old adage though:

"The more i learn, the more i realise how little i know.."

Alex.

:)

p.s. This most enjoyable of journeys, continues....

spmbtng
04-24-2008, 01:32 AM
Jimmy,
A big thank you for the heads up. I have suse10.3 64bit installed, and with an RT kernel to boot, with the latest builds of Alsa and Jack humming along nicely.

[...]

It's interesting for me at this point,that my first linux adventure took about 4 weeks to a fairly well tuned and stable box. This one is going to take me about a day or two.

I'm still mindful of the old adage though:

"The more i learn, the more i realise how little i know.."

Alex.

:)

p.s. This most enjoyable of journeys, continues....






Hi Alex,

I was talking about compiling your own RT kernel for the Mac G4 PPC, as you said you have yet to find an RT kernel for the PPC.

Also I saw some Linux 2.6.25 real-time side notes with some web links within, if anyone wants more details:

http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/cgroups-and-rtwatch.html

I attribute much of my Linux learning these days to reading news sites for general keywords and ideas. And mostly to web search engines for keyword indexing of articles, forum posts, and some blogs. Web browser's keyword search within a web page also help on "busy" webpages, too. The rest are more or less reading comprehension of the various terms within Linux and general computing. The more I learn about Linux, and the more of having done similar tasks, the less time it takes to get things done, subsequently.

Jimmy

blitze
04-24-2008, 09:04 PM
Cool :)

I'm going to assume you've tried Linux at some point and used your own brain to come to the above.

Which distro did you try and what problems did you have? The more the developers know the better for everyone.

Tried Arch Linux and Ubuntu x64.

Issues I have are:
ALSA - have to compile firmware for my Echo Gina3G to get it working.

Jack requires RT KErnel for decent response but Nvidia drivers and RT Kernels do not play.

Pulse Audio is just not there yet.

WINE still requires some work on the VSTi front as I would love to use my Windows VSTi's.

Biggest issue is all the faffing about to get things to work. Great that Reaper runs well in WINE but I find the whole audio interface aspect of Linux sorely lacking. I wish Linux Audio developers would drop the crap and focus on getting ALSA and Jack working together with a simple and well laid out user interface. Forget Pulse Audio and all the other leggacy audio servers and just focus on jack. Have a simple UI for it for day to day usage with a more indepth UI for Audio professionals.

This would really pull Linux together on the audio front but alas I don't see that happening and if and when Pulse Audio gets its' stuff together then Haiku will be in full release with an update on the way and blow Linux out of the water Audio wise.

Anyone who has had some experience on BeOS (of which Haiku is seeking binary compatability with on initial release) knows that here is an OS of the like nothing can touch media performance wise. I had BeOS doing on a AMD K6-400,/generic PC hardware, stuff that even OS-X and Vista can't do without specialised hardware (4 video streams playing with no frame drops, 10 audio streams playing and full UI responsiveness). Haiku will reproduce that experiance and coupled with todays hardware - blow the other OS's out of the water.

A truely awesome UI media experience that the 3 main OS's just can't replicate.

I want to like Linux and for generic computing I actually support it on some clients machines but it's too little, too late I feel. Reaper on Haiku would be the bees knees for moi especially if I could get my VSTi's carried across as well.
Till then, I can't be bothered and Vista now is stable enough to use (XFX 8800GT Bios/Nvidia driver problems there which are now sorted).

Alex Stone
04-24-2008, 11:56 PM
Tried Arch Linux and Ubuntu x64.

Issues I have are:
ALSA - have to compile firmware for my Echo Gina3G to get it working.

Jack requires RT KErnel for decent response but Nvidia drivers and RT Kernels do not play.

Pulse Audio is just not there yet.

WINE still requires some work on the VSTi front as I would love to use my Windows VSTi's.

Biggest issue is all the faffing about to get things to work. Great that Reaper runs well in WINE but I find the whole audio interface aspect of Linux sorely lacking. I wish Linux Audio developers would drop the crap and focus on getting ALSA and Jack working together with a simple and well laid out user interface. Forget Pulse Audio and all the other leggacy audio servers and just focus on jack. Have a simple UI for it for day to day usage with a more indepth UI for Audio professionals.

This would really pull Linux together on the audio front but alas I don't see that happening and if and when Pulse Audio gets its' stuff together then Haiku will be in full release with an update on the way and blow Linux out of the water Audio wise.

Anyone who has had some experience on BeOS (of which Haiku is seeking binary compatability with on initial release) knows that here is an OS of the like nothing can touch media performance wise. I had BeOS doing on a AMD K6-400,/generic PC hardware, stuff that even OS-X and Vista can't do without specialised hardware (4 video streams playing with no frame drops, 10 audio streams playing and full UI responsiveness). Haiku will reproduce that experiance and coupled with todays hardware - blow the other OS's out of the water.

A truely awesome UI media experience that the 3 main OS's just can't replicate.

I want to like Linux and for generic computing I actually support it on some clients machines but it's too little, too late I feel. Reaper on Haiku would be the bees knees for moi especially if I could get my VSTi's carried across as well.
Till then, I can't be bothered and Vista now is stable enough to use (XFX 8800GT Bios/Nvidia driver problems there which are now sorted).

Blitze,
While i understand your frustration with this, and the extra effort required to get things working together in Linux, it's not quite as difficult as it seems, and ifI can get it all running together, then there's hope for all. :)
I'm aware at the moment of a great deal of work going into Jack in particular, and with regular contact with the devs, understand that you just may get what you wish for.

I will say again here, that if the HW manufacturers were forthcoming with information about their particular kit, then a lot of the challenges that users have would simply disappear. Nvidia is better than most (try installing and running an ATI card), but there's still an element of 'secret squirrel' in their perception of working in linux, as if somehow they're going to lose something. A lot of the sound modules in Alsa were put together backwards by gifted craftsmen, who with little to go on in terms of schematics, or documents, built drivers with a 'better chance' of working. And it clearly identifies which Manufacturers are willing to see the Linux market as a potential money spinner. RME and MAudio can proudly stand up here, just for two examples.

And as far as Alsa goes, the commercial HW operators only have to build their own drivers for one or two OS's. Once they've taken care of their own stuff the party's over. (And even then, they don't always get it right. Creative being a recent glaring example. Again.)
The Alsa team have to build with ALL drivers in mind, and one only has to to cruise their soundcard interlink page to realise they're managing a lot at once. How long does it take HW manufacturers to sort their own drivers and firmware out? Then multiply that by at least 50, plus all the tweaks and bits. The reason Alsa can look challenging at install time, from source, is the sheer number of choices you have. The actual compile and install is relatively painless, and it's quite easy to get it all rolling.

So there are linux users too (imho) who have to do more than is necessary sometimes to get a decent working rig. The OS itself (again imho) is, in hindsight, no more difficult to use than others, and i'll be blunt here, it makes much better use of the HW, even WITH the unnecessary restriction of Manufacturer reluctance. It's true you need to do a bit of study, and research to understand how it works, and how best to tune the box, but i counter that with my own experience of being able to finetune and tweak the os way beyond the commercial offerings. I'm still learning, and further down the road, who knows how much more i'll be able to achieve? If you're a 'plug and play' fellow, then win will suit you better, and that's up to you. I can only reflect my own perspective that since taking the good ship linux and sailing out into uncharted waters, i've had a great time, with results impossible to achieve in win or mac. It has taken some modest extra effort to achieve that, but that's always the case in the pursuit of excellence. I feel i've lost nothing by taking the plunge, and have gained much in knowledge, and my understanding of how best to get more efficient use out of my HW resource. Audio and midi play a lot nicer on my rig now (with the mighty jack server) than they ever did in win.

So good luck to you, whichever direction you take, and i wish you success. We are doing this after all to write music, and there are many paths to the same goal.

Alex.
Windows free, and can already feel the IQ growing.

Edit: It's interesting that Linux useability is at the forefront of user questions, and that's valid to a certain extent. But in the last few days i've finally crushed and destroyed the win partition on my dual boot, and installed suse 10.3.64bit. (No more Win, i'm freeeeee...) It installed easily, without any effort on my part, in a mannner one could describe as a 'one click install.' It started, booted, and got going without any tweaks from me, including vid and sound. (And that includes finding, evaluating and installing the drivers for my pci ATI vid and Delta 44 soundcard.) So i didn't even have to install extra drivers once the OS install was complete.

As i understand the process from my own experience, once Win is installed, the user then has to go and find, and manually install, drivers for their particular extra HW. And there's no certainty, in these Vista times, that those drivers will work correctly. (See the reference to Creative and Vista for just one glaringly obvious example, and they're not the only ones by any means.)
I was up and running straight away. How long has it taken many HW manufacturers, AFTER they've sold the gear to the customer, to build stable, working, Vista drivers?

While we're on this, anyone who's considering a standard Linux install, with all the usual stuff like interlink, mail, sound,vid etc, might want to do some research on Opensuse. Version 11 is out in 55 days, but 10.3 goes like a train. (my experience.) You can install an RT kernel straight from the repositories, and with the usual rtprio,memlock, and nice performance tweaks, have a decent, powerful audio,midi dawbox within a short time.

Never give up, never surrender!

StudioDave
04-25-2008, 03:36 AM
Jack requires RT KErnel for decent response but Nvidia drivers and RT Kernels do not play.

I have two machines here at Studio Dave, one with the SuSE-based JAD 1.0 (32-bit system) and the other with the Debian-based 64 Studio (64-bit system). Both have nVidia 7600GS cards installed because I occasionally run music & sound apps that require OpenGL support.

The only problems I've ever had with those cards had to do with a closed-source app that utilized accelerated 3D. Couldn't debug it so I dropped it.

Pulse Audio is just not there yet.

PulseAudio is not a pro-audio solution. IMO (from what I know so far), it's another in the long line of sound servers for normal users' machines. If your ambitions are towards pro-audio quality, you probably needn't concern yourself with PulseAudio.

WINE still requires some work on the VSTi front as I would love to use my Windows VSTi's.

Not sure I understand this comment. Many here use VST/VSTi plugins fruitfully, via Reaper or some other mechanism.

... I find the whole audio interface aspect of Linux sorely lacking. I wish Linux Audio developers would drop the crap and focus on getting ALSA and Jack working together with a simple and well laid out user interface. Forget Pulse Audio and all the other leggacy audio servers and just focus on jack. Have a simple UI for it for day to day usage with a more indepth UI for Audio professionals.

I would like to see this happen too. I've already lobbied some devels about it, and I am glad to see direct JACK support in common media players such as MPlayer. Alas, it's still not an option in Amarok or Rhythmbox.

Anyone who has had some experience on BeOS (of which Haiku is seeking binary compatability with on initial release) knows that here is an OS of the like nothing can touch media performance wise. I had BeOS doing on a AMD K6-400,/generic PC hardware, stuff that even OS-X and Vista can't do without specialised hardware (4 video streams playing with no frame drops, 10 audio streams playing and full UI responsiveness).

Then I must ask a serious question, no flaming intended: Why did you abandon it ?

I want to like Linux and for generic computing I actually support it on some clients machines but it's too little, too late I feel. Reaper on Haiku would be the bees knees for moi especially if I could get my VSTi's carried across as well. Till then, I can't be bothered and Vista now is stable enough to use (XFX 8800GT Bios/Nvidia driver problems there which are now sorted).

I'll say what I usually say to such reports. Given your poor experience with it I'd recommend you not consider Linux as an audio workstation. I assure you, it works perfectly well for me, for Alex, for Lowkey, and few thousand others, but those numbers don't mean diddley if you can't use it. Be aware, I'm *not* flaming or dissing your experience AT ALL. I'm simply advising you to not waste your time. If Vista works for your needs, then you should continue using it. Changing an OS is not a trivial pursuit.

Btw, it appears you didn't bother with trying the media-optimized distros such as Planet CCRMA or 64 Studio. That's a common mistake. I've been using Linux as an audio platform for a long time, I've been through more code-level work and compiling than I care to remember. Haven't done anything like that for years now, thanks to the optimized distros.

Alex Stone
04-25-2008, 04:23 AM
Just want to add to Dave's wise words here, and say once again, imho, this is about making music. While i continue to thoroughly enjoy my own journey in Linux, and had success with it, it has been a result of 1) A great deal of help and encouragement from fine human beings who have been generous and enthusiastic with their knowledge and encouragement, and 2) Planning, and determination on my part, studying and researching, and keeping an open mind. I set aside a chunk of time to do this, and kept the end goal in mind, always.

If you're rig is working well, then, as Dave has said, why change?
We have a choice of which direction we take, and bear the consequences for making that choice. If it doesn't work, then either find a solution, or make another change.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, but i went into this prepared for the worst, and intent on getting the best, with the added advantage of gaining new knowledge, and a source of new humour as i took on the challenges.
So while i wish those who do this success, i would hope they take on the task,if they choose, understanding that there will be problems to solve, and challenges to meet and defeat. Personally the rewards have already been considerable, with a good setup, continued learning, and the participation in good discussion and shared humour, with likeminded colleagues, and friends.

Sometimes, when we're focused so intently on the problem at hand, and it seems beyond us, we forget to look up and catch our breath for a moment, gathering our thoughts and taking the chance to explore another perspective.

The lack of sleep is to be expected.

:)

Alex.

p.s. And above all else,

Never give up, and never surrender!

blitze
04-25-2008, 10:46 PM
I have two machines here at Studio Dave, one with the SuSE-based JAD 1.0 (32-bit system) and the other with the Debian-based 64 Studio (64-bit system). Both have nVidia 7600GS cards installed because I occasionally run music & sound apps that require OpenGL support.

The only problems I've ever had with those cards had to do with a closed-source app that utilized accelerated 3D. Couldn't debug it so I dropped it.



PulseAudio is not a pro-audio solution. IMO (from what I know so far), it's another in the long line of sound servers for normal users' machines. If your ambitions are towards pro-audio quality, you probably needn't concern yourself with PulseAudio.

Why bother with it when Jack can do all Pulse can and more. Better to stick with one real good audio server and work its interface than f-about with many. Biggest problem with Linux in this regard.

Then I must ask a serious question, no flaming intended: Why did you abandon it ?

Be Inc screwed up. They developed a great OS for Media usage (with a few rough edges but the underlying OS concepts were great), pitched it at Apple as a replacement for Mac Classic and got screwed by their greed and that Apple really wanted Steve Jobs. Then they basically died as a company but not without having Nuendo Beta written of BeOS, Roland and some other Music Hardware companies using BeOS as their underlying OS for some of their Audio Hardware and Tune Tracker (Radio Automation Software on BeOS) leaving some great impressions.

Haiku is a communities effort to ressurect BeOS by rewriting the OS to avoid legal issues (BeOS IP was bought by Palm Inc) and also tidy up some of the areas where BeOS code was not ideal. Try having a look at it as I think they have a self hosting Alpha build available now and by Alpha Build in Haiku terms, we're talking Beta quality code in most other software development terms. By the time we have a Beta in Haiku OS then you'll have a functioning OS with great feet for media work. Using shared toolkits/media kits and its modular approach, BeOS/Haiku seemes to do much more with less.

Echo Audio are quite good with how they have supported alternaitve OS driver development but my experience is that unless you are running a SB or onboard audio, distros seem to not bother including much else on the driver/firmware front for ALSA. The Gina 3G works well when you do get it running but considering I also do Print Pre Press work I can't be f-ed dual booting to another OS that requires some hand holding to get it to work.

I do admit, when Linux is setup - it runs very well and Jack is a great idea with it's abilities to connect different audio apps together and share audio streams between them and you can't replecate that on Windows or OS-X. Still, ATM, I'm holding off until things are a little easier and if Adobe decides to give Linux support either through WINE or natively with their apps, then I'm more inclined to more across.

ATM my system runs well 24/7 on Vista switching between Work/Audio/Games/Media Centre (using VLC and Foobar 2000) with a minimum of fuss.

StudioDave
04-26-2008, 03:30 AM
Why bother with it when Jack can do all Pulse can and more.

Perhaps because so much of the existing non-professional audio applications base is written with blocking I/O instead of a callback-based system ?

spmbtng
04-26-2008, 07:29 AM
blitze,

You asked Dave why he dropped an app that he had problems with. It could be that the deveoper(s) of the app couldn't or didn't help resolving those problems. We either have to live with it, or find a way out of it. With opensource apps, we also have the option to play around with the code if we have the time and knowledge to try. We might get lucky and fix some of those problems ourselves even if the original developers don't have time or can't be bothered. It simply is another option.

It sounds like you may even jump on board with Linux too, if you could. Although you are tethered by a few things still. Same sentiment I had until I made my decision, I admit it took me a while -- more than a couple of years because of work related things. It did help me alot when I realized it. So I set up a spare PC running Linux and only create all new documents with Linux, convert what I need to an open formats. Everything else just got archived because I have no time to convert those. After a couple of years, I figure those documents I haven't needed to read or convert yet, then chances are I may never need them again, except for maybe tax audit or something along that line. Basically, I found different apps or different ways to ween myself from the addiction of sort.

Still, Linux does haev its share of problems, so don't expect too much.

I can fully appreciate the expression Alex just made this week: "But in the last few days i've finally crushed and destroyed the win partition on my dual boot, and installed suse 10.3.64bit. (No more Win, i'm freeeeee...)"

I already explained briefly (not full analysis by any means) the issues of binary (proprietary) drivers previously in this thread. If you haven't read it, you can try to go back and search for those. It might be fastest to bring up these, and do text search (for "spmbtng", or "proprietary", or "license", I think) within:

http://www.cockos.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-15238.html
http://www.cockos.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-15238-p-2.html
http://www.cockos.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-15238-p-3.html

I am no lawyer. Even if you consult with a lawyers, all they will say is that "this is my interpretation of the law, which may or may not hold in the court of law, so I suggest that..."

Every thing (re-)distributed in the Linux kernel is GPL version 2. It means that full source code must be made available to anyone who obtained the pre-compiled binary package(s). That pretty much weed out all binary-only or partial-binary drivers. Most manufacturers and their lawyers still don't want to potentially open up the full source code for their drivers. Some of them don't actually own the whole source code either, but rather have links to yet third-party (additional companies and their lawyers) code somewhere, too. And the code could reveal more ugly hacks than so called "trade secrets". To me, the ugly hacks are exactly the "trade secrets" they want to hide. Ha, the recent CreativeLab's saga shows some of those shady areas of marketing tricks, too.

GPL version 3 software have additional implications, spawn out of the wrangling for souce code of GPL drivers or other Linux GPL version 2 codes inside TIVO devices or similar cases.

The many free windows drivers download sites out there are by definition "redistributing" those drivers. I doubt they have explicit license for any of those drivers. Just happens that drivers are still considered free so the manufacturers can't claim loss revenue the way the music publishers try to claim to shut down those sites. Plus public backlash about old drivers not available from the manufacturers' own web pages could be a PR's nightmare...

There might me some legal definition of the word "packaging", too. If some distro has only one option to includie (even a separate) CD/DVD with some GPL'ed CD/DVD in one "shipment", would that constitute the "one softwre package" being distributed. If so, there might be copyright (or redistribution) issues with original proprietary driver, or the GPL...

Similar issues are the reasons that held up the "opensource Java" by Sun for many years. In the Java software, there were contributed, or licenced codes by other companies that were not "opensource" compatible. That's also why Java had not been in most Linux distros until recently -- now that Java JDK is fully opensource. There were numerous opensource efforts to recreate bits and pieces of Java APIs, but they are often years behind.

Things are not as simple as most people think with software, as well as licenses.

Jimmy

blitze
04-26-2008, 07:55 PM
I understand the debate very well. Also with regards to Proprietry vs Opensource.

Even on Windows I try to utilise apps that use open formats i.e. OpenOffice and the likes. I don't see it being good to have any form of inf tied up in proprietry formats that might cease to exist down the track. Had that with a couple of compositions I had done in other Sequencing software and I don't want to suffer that again.

Then again, I think I'll also be sticking to Reaper for quite some time as I like the community and the openness of the Devs.

Who knows what the future will bring but opening up platforms and formats is something that seems to be happening and it's for the better. Look at AMD and their new found commitment to opening up the ATI Drivers.

Alex Stone
04-29-2008, 02:52 AM
Some quick news from the Tux Interlink.

The latest svn updates of alsa and Jack are going through a bit of a reorganisation, with some components being worked on that may not work quite as expected. so if you have a nice working rig, keep it, and i'll post again when the projects have settled down again, and work together seamlessly.

The Alsa team are working on the seq code, and the jack team are further integrating code across jack, and jackdmp, with ongoing development of jackmidi.

Great news, but now is the time to be a little patient.

Alex.

Alex Stone
04-30-2008, 12:57 AM
As a quick update to the previous post, it's worth putting in the diary that Jack2 is in the advanced stage of development, and there are some big hitters in the linux dev world putting serious time into this programme.

One can only imagine what the wizards are conjuring up., but an increase in advanced netjack capability across boxes, and further multiprocessor capability are just two i know of.

Exciting stuff.


Alex.

The journey continues.....

Alex Stone
04-30-2008, 03:27 AM
Hehe, another quick update. For those who enjoy the bleeding edge, Jack 0.111 has hit svn update, and works fine, on both my boots. (UBStudio and Suse 10.3 RT) Jackmidi is with us again!

Alex.

On the bleeding edge, having refreshed the first aid kit....

Alex Stone
05-11-2008, 05:26 AM
After some research, and a careful think, i decided to upgrade my UBStudio to not only Heron, but 64bit. (Reaper now resides in a small 32bit partition of it's own.)

I have to say here, that i'm quite impressed with the work that's gone into this, and the range of 'updated' packages available. (something Ubuntu are not always renowned for.)
The install was seamless, and i chose to ignore installing any packages outside of the core system, aside from Alsa, which is at 1.0.16 in the Heron dvd. (Just about the latest version.)
So the journey begins again, in a manner of speaking, armed with a modest improvement in knowledge, and a bit more confidence in installing from source. I've got Jack2 in now, (which is, more or less, jackmp) and Dave Drobilla's terrific patchage app, a gui for all things jack, alsa, and lash. (More on lash later, as it's going to be upgraded considerably this summer, and it's ability to manage and save complete sessions, greatly enhanced, including full dbus integration. I send good luck and best wishes to Iuso and Nedko, for taking on this formidable task.)

More to come!

Alex.

The journey continues, renewed....

:)

Shan
05-14-2008, 03:22 AM
...and who knows? One day we may be able to run Reaper from a usb stick in Linux as well. (4GB stick with linuxsampler, and a modest set of gigs. Hmmm.)

+1 billion for that feature. :D

Shane

eric71
05-15-2008, 11:19 PM
Has anyone had problems with recent Reaper releases on the new Hardy realtime kernel? I have had problems with Reaper locking up at startup when loading the project.

I had also had some poor jack performance issues, but that seems to have been fixed with the nohz=off parameter to turn off the tickless feature of the kernel. I had hoped this would fix the crash when starting reaper too, but it didn't.

This doesn't happen if I use the standard kernel. If I start a new empty project and save it while using the normal kernel, I can boot into the rt kernel and start Reaper fine. It seems to have problems opening my existing projects, so I'm not sure what is happening. Reaper just locks up, and everything else is almost unusable. I've tried different memlock settings and this doesn't seem to help.

Any ideas are appreciated. For now I've switched back to PCLinuxOS, where things are working but I'm never quite as comfortable as in Ubuntu.

Eric

spmbtng
05-16-2008, 06:29 PM
Eric,

If you suspect the realtime clock has something to do with it, try to change the clock frequency in /etc/sysctl.conf using some values like 100, 512, 1024, 2048... to see if that makes any difference. Changing the values in /etc/sysctl.conf generally requires a reboot. Or, you can try directly changing the clock frequency before starting any audio apps, including jackd, or qjackctl

echo 100 > /proc/sys/dev/rtc/max-user-freq
echo 100 > /proc/sys/dev/hpet/max-user-freq

or

echo 512 > /proc/sys/dev/rtc/max-user-freq
echo 512 > /proc/sys/dev/hpet/max-user-freq

or

echo 2048 > /proc/sys/dev/rtc/max-user-freq
echo 2048 > /proc/sys/dev/hpet/max-user-freq

Jimmy

Alex Stone
05-18-2008, 03:20 AM
I had the privilege recently of chatting with Pieter Palmers, a renowned and well respected linux dev who heads up the FFADO team, a project for further developing firewire integration and functionality in Linux. In the course of that discussion, we talked about HW manufacturers who are 'linux friendly.'

So, here's the good guys, those companies who see linux as a viable business opportunity, and who are working with the FFADO team to develop red hot firewire drivers and modules for use within linux.
(In no particular order)

ESI
Terratec
Focusrite
Echo

and a new addition, TC Electronic.

If you're considering a new firewire device, then these companies are onside. If you want your particular favourite, that you're already using, to be part of the growing band of Linux friendly HW manufacturers, then i respectfully suggest you send them a note, outlining your enthusiasm for such a move.

This is not an official endorsement of these companies, nor should it be taken as such, but these people recognise the value of developing for Linux, and co-operate with Pieter and his talented team in what is a fruitful partnership for us all.

More to come.....


Alex.

:)

norbury brook
05-18-2008, 03:34 AM
TC still haven't got vista drivers for powercore yet!!!!!!!


MC

Alex Stone
05-18-2008, 04:03 AM
TC still haven't got vista drivers for powercore yet!!!!!!!


MC

Perhaps they think it's not worth it.....

:)

Alex Stone
05-20-2008, 09:15 AM
Hehe, i've been chasing this one for a while, and finally got it.

The distro is suse 10.3 64bit RT, the wineasio version is wineasio-x.3, and at the moment, wine is 32bit.

After a lot of work sorting out where to point the wineasio prefix. libdir, jackversion, etc. wineasio finally said yes, after i'd previously installed winesvn. (No fear, hehe.....)
And a bit of juggling later, reaper burst into life.

Doesn't seem all that difficult now.... :)

So, the mighty Reap runs in wine32bit on a 64bit system. I've compiled wineasio with 64 ports in, and 64ports out, so there plenty to work with
Now i'm off to investigate the possibility of compiling wine for 64bit, and see if manually tweaking the number of midi ports will mess this up.
If this is successful, then i'll try my much cherished olga, as a true 64bit plugin, running in wine, in linux, in Moscow.
Seems fitting, somehow.....

Woohooski!

Alex.

p.s. More to come......

:)

Shan
06-04-2008, 01:00 AM
...then i'll try my much cherished olga, as a true 64bit plugin, running in wine, in linux, in Moscow.
Seems fitting, somehow.....

You Geek! :D

You're even blogging now. :D

Shane

Alex Stone
06-04-2008, 02:26 AM
You Geek! :D

You're even blogging now. :D

Shane

Yeah, well,erm....
I'm trying to get into this 21st century thing.

Beethoven never had this pressure!!!!

:)

StudioDave
06-04-2008, 03:56 AM
... the mighty Reap runs in wine32bit on a 64bit system... Now i'm off to investigate the possibility of compiling wine for 64bit...

As you know, I've run Reaper on 32-bit Wine on a 64-bit system (64 Studio), but without JACK. Alas, I've never been able to compile Wine for 64-bits. I always hit the wall with either a complaint about some assembly language code or about a component that won't build for 64-bits. Fails every time. However, in Debian backports I did find a 32-bit build of Wine that works with 64 Studio (and no chroot), but it's an old version. Please let us know if you're able to build Wine in a 64-bit version, then let us know how you did it. :)

Alex Stone
06-04-2008, 04:43 AM
As you know, I've run Reaper on 32-bit Wine on a 64-bit system (64 Studio), but without JACK. Alas, I've never been able to compile Wine for 64-bits. I always hit the wall with either a complaint about some assembly language code or about a component that won't build for 64-bits. Fails every time. However, in Debian backports I did find a 32-bit build of Wine that works with 64 Studio (and no chroot), but it's an old version. Please let us know if you're able to build Wine in a 64-bit version, then let us know how you did it. :)

Dave,
I've been investigating this quite a bit, but have come up with little so far. The resounding message seems to be, why?
64bit Wine won't run 32bit vsts is one answer. There's almost no 64bit Win apps is another.

I won't give up on this, including the jack possibilities, but it may take a while for me to have a greater understanding of how to approach this, and attempt it. And having been on top of the latest Jack developments, (Dbus, Netjack, Jack2, etc...) there's an even greater desire to try and find a solution. If Reaper went native, and i'll be frank here, i'd give up the chase tomorrow, but i think that's unlikely for quite a while, so the pursuit goes on. Jack's growing leaps and bounds, and Nedko, Stephane, Paul, Juusi, Marc, and others are really getting into their stride in the pursuit of the next stage of Jack development. It continues to be a shame that Wine hasn't kept up with this.
But, as i've discovered, there's more than enough tools in linux to do the job, and that includes Reaper and Wine in the current state.

I also see an opportunity here for the Reap team, and the Reaper API. If it's able to be ported within a 64bit wine environment, and Reaper gets even more fine plugins, and a 64bit wine becomes more relavent, and the clamour for 32bit vsts may reduce as replacement 64bit options become available. (imho)

I continue to be amused at the idea of turning the ship that is Wine in a new direction, for one app. for some reason, i find that rather exhilarating.......

More to come!!

Alex.

:)

The journey continues, and now the mighty Shan has joined us, selling dubious ice creams to to the unwary and weary, as we stride forward into the future....

Shan
06-17-2008, 10:47 PM
The journey continues, and now the mighty Shan has joined us, selling dubious ice creams to to the unwary and weary, as we stride forward into the future....

Ha! ...and this new post is done in Linux! :D

As far as my day to day Internet/office/Admin stuff goes...it's all done in Linux now and I ain't going back! I did have XP running in Virtualbox...let's just say...it got quickly deleted. :D

The Linux desktop has certainly come a long way since my SLAX days. It frickin' rocks!! Why some people dont "get it" is beyond me. Oh well, they can enjoy Vista. :D

Shane

Finnish
06-18-2008, 12:02 AM
Ha! ...and this new post is done in Linux! :D

As far as my day to day Internet/office/Admin stuff goes...it's all done in Linux now and I ain't going back! I did have XP running in Virtualbox...let's just say...it got quickly deleted. :D

The Linux desktop has certainly come a long way since my SLAX days. It frickin' rocks!! Why some people dont "get it" is beyond me. Oh well, they can enjoy Vista. :D

Shane

+1

I've got DuX-XP as my audio-system, everything else running in Ubuntu. I also had XP in Virtualbox, just for fun...

StudioDave
06-18-2008, 05:18 AM
The Linux desktop has certainly come a long way since my SLAX days. It frickin' rocks!! Why some people dont "get it" is beyond me.

I recently wrote an article about media players for Ubuntu, the Hardy Heron release. I opted to run the system from its live disc, it performed beautifully, and I was very impressed with the overall user-friendliness (I hate that term). I think the designers did users a great service by purposefully restricting the number of applications and by naming the apps sensibly in the menus (I mean, does "Brassero" signify a DVD burner to you ?).

I began using Linux circa 1995 (with Slackware, natch), and switched to it completely by the end of 2000. I wanted to run some sound apps that had no equivalents on Windows at that time, one thing just led to another. I'm definitely a curious sort, and Linux provided all kinds of curiosities for a fellow who had been raised on MS-DOS and early Windows. It still does. :)

Shan
06-19-2008, 12:21 AM
+1

I've got DuX-XP as my audio-system, everything else running in Ubuntu. I also had XP in Virtualbox, just for fun...

Yeah, I keep XP as a dual boot for PT only and that's the only reason. Everything else is now done in Ubuntu Linux. :D

Speaking of which, anyone get Xbox Media Center going in Ubuntu 8.4?

(Sorry Alex...WAY off topic) :D

Shane

Shan
06-19-2008, 12:24 AM
I recently wrote an article about media players for Ubuntu, the Hardy Heron release...

Yeah, VLC has always done it for me, even on XP. I'm taking a stab at getting XBMC going in Hardy. Always gotta try new things. :D

Shane

Alex Stone
06-19-2008, 07:25 AM
Yeah, I keep XP as a dual boot for PT only and that's the only reason. Everything else is now done in Ubuntu Linux. :D
Shane

Shan, almost there. Just a little push, and you'll be truly free...... :D

Alex Stone
06-19-2008, 07:27 AM
Just had a report that RT in kernel 2.6.25 is a bit squishy, and not well.

Anyone using this kernel release yet?


Alex.

tweed
06-19-2008, 10:16 AM
Me too on using Linux more and more.... I find that ARCH linux and the beginners guide gave me a huge jump in understanding. Linux is WAY sexy.. AND: Ubuntu will just, work, which is great. Then just being aware of what data one generates and copying to usb key or whatever. The warm and fuzzy feeling is great after so much windows dominance.

I love the whole NO registry thing, the communities, and no concerns about bloat, weird code etc. um, how's that for understatement!

P.S. yes, XP in virtualbox on Linux is very very fun. I'd only ever used it the other way around with Linux as the guest.

robg
06-19-2008, 10:53 AM
WINE 1.0 released

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/18/wine_one_finally/

StudioDave
06-19-2008, 11:11 AM
WINE 1.0 released

Built today, just got through running it with Reaper.

I've been having a problem that I think some of you might be able to help me with. I start Jack, then I start Reaper. Reaper doesn't play, Jack dies. I go into the Reaper Prefs, reselect the ASIO driver (wineasio 0.7.3), restart Jack, and Reaper plays fine. I've missed something, but what ? An inquiring mind wants to know...

JACK 0.109.2
Reaper 2.301
Wine 1.0
wineasio 0.7.3
Linux distro JAD 1.0 (OpenSUSE 10.2)

Alex Stone
06-19-2008, 11:42 AM
Built today, just got through running it with Reaper.

I've been having a problem that I think some of you might be able to help me with. I start Jack, then I start Reaper. Reaper doesn't play, Jack dies. I go into the Reaper Prefs, reselect the ASIO driver (wineasio 0.7.3), restart Jack, and Reaper plays fine. I've missed something, but what ? An inquiring mind wants to know...

JACK 0.109.2
Reaper 2.301
Wine 1.0
wineasio 0.7.3
Linux distro JAD 1.0 (OpenSUSE 10.2)

Dave,
I can't see Jackbridge there anywhere. (Is it still required?)

Alex.

3mph
06-19-2008, 12:40 PM
The Linux desktop has certainly come a long way since my SLAX days. It frickin' rocks!! Why some people dont "get it" is beyond me. Oh well, they can enjoy Vista. :D
Well, I've tried a few linux-distros, and I find that they each have their issues. To be honest, I think the time I've spend reading, trying to understand what it's all about (or not about), is the time I've should have used making music or communicating. If my computer behaves weird, I re-install xp, run the exe's in my "/re-install/drivers/"-dir and everything is up an running within an hour or 2. I have never got a linux-distro to fully support the hardware I use, and I end up using more time on learning about computers than making creative things with it - so there it stops for me.

But you've probably heard this argument 100E+50^10 times before :-)

Alex Stone
06-20-2008, 10:43 PM
Built today, just got through running it with Reaper.

I've been having a problem that I think some of you might be able to help me with. I start Jack, then I start Reaper. Reaper doesn't play, Jack dies. I go into the Reaper Prefs, reselect the ASIO driver (wineasio 0.7.3), restart Jack, and Reaper plays fine. I've missed something, but what ? An inquiring mind wants to know...

JACK 0.109.2
Reaper 2.301
Wine 1.0
wineasio 0.7.3
Linux distro JAD 1.0 (OpenSUSE 10.2)

Just to add to this, using jackbridge with wine and reap 2.301, in a 64bit environment, produces a shedload of xruns.

Some more thinking required about how to handle this, me thinks...
And i'm on Jack2 dbus intergalactic, with all the new features, and fixes.

Alex.

StudioDave
06-21-2008, 04:34 AM
I can't see Jackbridge there anywhere. (Is it still required?)

I'm working with Reaper only on the 32-bit box, so no need for jackbridge.

I thought I'd read somewhere here about a switch for Wine compatibility, something about the audio driver. Was I dreaming ? Chemically altered ? Blissful ?

There's a downside to being 57... ;)

Alex Stone
06-21-2008, 04:48 AM
I'm working with Reaper only on the 32-bit box, so no need for jackbridge.

I thought I'd read somewhere here about a switch for Wine compatibility, something about the audio driver. Was I dreaming ? Chemically altered ? Blissful ?

There's a downside to being 57... ;)

Hehe, and a little younger than that too.

:D

p.s. What's my name again?

prschmitt
06-21-2008, 11:51 PM
Built today, just got through running it with Reaper.

I've been having a problem that I think some of you might be able to help me with. I start Jack, then I start Reaper. Reaper doesn't play, Jack dies. I go into the Reaper Prefs, reselect the ASIO driver (wineasio 0.7.3), restart Jack, and Reaper plays fine. I've missed something, but what ? An inquiring mind wants to know...

JACK 0.109.2
Reaper 2.301
Wine 1.0
wineasio 0.7.3
Linux distro JAD 1.0 (OpenSUSE 10.2)

I'm having essentially the same issue:

Slackware 12
latest Jack svn
Reaper 2.301
Wine 1.0
wineasio 0.7.4
kernel 2.6.25.4-rt4

Moving a window kills the wineasio connection. causing it to disappear from qjackctl.
killing and restarting jack restores it until I move, say, an fx window, then it dies again.
If I reselect the driver in reaper preferences, it comes alive again, also, *without* killing jack.
No xruns.

[edit]
Reading that Jack svn has experienced some flakiness lately, I backed off to 0.109.2 and now all is working splendidly again.

oh.. almost forgot..while I'm here..if you guys don't know this already, here's a little tip:
As I mentioned in another thread, borrowing the native gdiplus.dll from windows allows a bunch more vst's to work properly in wine.
Try it. You'll be glad you did :)
[edit]

prschmitt
06-22-2008, 12:00 AM
I'm working with Reaper only on the 32-bit box, so no need for jackbridge.

I thought I'd read somewhere here about a switch for Wine compatibility, something about the audio driver. Was I dreaming ? Chemically altered ? Blissful ?

There's a downside to being 57... ;)

Not dreaming, dude.
That one lives under the 'buffering' entry under audio preferences.
It's right at the bottom.. "use native events for synchronisation"
_uncheck_ the box for better wine compatibility.

BTW I'm 53.. closing in on ya 8P

Alex Stone
06-23-2008, 06:04 AM
After some thought and research, i finally got around to an intended new install of Ubuntustudio 32bit, to complement the 64 bit 2nd boot. Both the 'Hardy 8.0.4' variety, and now, both sporting jack2 intergalactic with dbus, lashdbus, and on the 32bit flavour, Wine 1.0, and Reaper.

Hardy's come quite a way from Gutsy (7.10) in terms of simple useability, 'out of the box', so to speak, and i'm with Dave on this one, that it's fairly effortless to set up and use.

Now for the audio/midi specific stuff. My journey started out as a 'deb' package user, installing from ubuntu repos, and making a ton of mistakes. This time round, with a lot of generosity from others sharing their knowledge, and my own determination not to make the same mistakes more than 1,276 times, my install was almost bare bones, waiting for source compile and install. It took me a couple of days to go through the old notes i'd taken (lesson to self, write in some form of english that can be read...), but things went ok, and Reaper is singing away to its heart's content, resonating it's fine tones through alsa midi, and jackdbus, with Linuxsampler.

Here's a pic of Patchage, showing everything playing together nicely on Hardy 32bit...

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/47129/Screenshot-Patchage.png

prschmitt,
nice tip about the unchecked synchro box. worked a treat, thanks.

Dave, unfortunately i can't give any tips here about crashes between reaper v2.301 and jack2dbus, because i, erm, don't have any. I compiled Wine manually with 64 midiportsin/64midiportsout, and set the number of audio ports in .wineasiocfg, (64 in, 8 out), then configured jackdbus for 256 samples with the usual tweaks, and everything's fine. Even with the fairly hefty load from linuxsampler, reference number of ports you see in the pic, everything's working well. Sorry.

More to come, including a progress report on the revival and heavy development going on with Lash(dbus), Jack2 intergalactic(dbus), and Ladi-patchage, the development version of the above pic, that will incorporate project saves across lash enabled apps, and non lash enable apps (intended.), giving the user almost complete control over whole sessions across apps, as a single saved unit.

Should be thoroughly interesting!

p.s. My favourite notation editor, Muse score, is making some decent headway too, as Werner Schweer continues work on multi midi channel for articulations, per staff.
Go Werner!

Alex.

:D

Happy linux user, and no tinfoil in sight.

No.

Really.

Shan
06-24-2008, 01:33 AM
...Hardy's come quite a way from Gutsy (7.10) in terms of simple useability, 'out of the box', so to speak, and i'm with Dave on this one, that it's fairly effortless to set up and use...

Hell ya! 8.04 is my fav release so far. I joined the Ubuntu camp back in the 6.06 Dapper Drake days...and it's definitely come a long way. I myself was pretty impressed with the 8.04 release. :)

Shane

Anomaly
06-24-2008, 02:24 AM
Hello. I'm sorry if this is offtopic, but I thought there could be someone with knowledge.

The problem is that since I updated my computer to following:

Intel q6600
Intel DP965LT mobo
nvidia 7600gs (and now 9600gt)
Sata II HD
DVD drive in PATA

I have not been able to run ANY linux distro. I haven't tried to install anything, but just to run live cd's of most ubuntu versions (including the most recent) and couple of others. And I never get it to the desktop. It always locks up in some point of loading, or just gives a black screen and nothing happens.

I have stretched my brain out to try and comprehend why is this happening. What is so wrong with my setup? I read all the time others running linux in similar setups without any problems. It seems that I'm bound to Microsoft even if I wanted to change.

Can you help me to sort this out? Thank you!

StudioDave
06-24-2008, 04:14 AM
Not dreaming, dude.
That one lives under the 'buffering' entry under audio preferences.
It's right at the bottom.. "use native events for synchronisation"
_uncheck_ the box for better wine compatibility.

Okay, thanks for the tip. So I did that, but the problem persists. However, I discovered that if I start Reaper and *then* start QJackCtl the system works fine, Reaper picks up the wineasio driver and everything hums along nicely. Weird. Maybe Justin knows about this problem ?

BTW I'm 53.. closing in on ya 8P

Ha, another youngster... I always have to keep looking over my shoulder, you kids just keep comin' on... ;)

StudioDave
06-24-2008, 04:22 AM
..if you guys don't know this already, here's a little tip:
As I mentioned in another thread, borrowing the native gdiplus.dll from windows allows a bunch more vst's to work properly in wine.


Cool, I'll try it. However, there is no gdiplus in Wine's system32 directory. I assume I should just drop it in there, yes ? Also, the DLL I downloaded is dated from 2004, should I look for a later version ?

spmbtng
06-24-2008, 07:34 AM
Hello. I'm sorry if this is offtopic, but I thought there could be someone with knowledge.

The problem is that since I updated my computer to following:

Intel q6600
Intel DP965LT mobo
nvidia 7600gs (and now 9600gt)
Sata II HD
DVD drive in PATA

I have not been able to run ANY linux distro. I haven't tried to install anything, but just to run live cd's of most ubuntu versions (including the most recent) and couple of others. And I never get it to the desktop. It always locks up in some point of loading, or just gives a black screen and nothing happens.

I have stretched my brain out to try and comprehend why is this happening. What is so wrong with my setup? I read all the time others running linux in similar setups without any problems. It seems that I'm bound to Microsoft even if I wanted to change.

Can you help me to sort this out? Thank you!



Anomaly,

I suspect the problem is with the graphic card configuration.

I still haven't tried any flavor(s) of Ubuntu, so this is just general background info for you to try and get some more info, trouble-shooting of sort. The more you know and understand, the easier it will be later on. There are lots of linux distros, and each distro may have a few releases each year, each release may have its own quirks from time to time.

Did you see the liveCD boot up screen and the text shown, scrolling along, then the screen flash into black and nothing is shown? If that is the case, try Ctrl+Alt+F1, it should bring you to the system concole #1, Ctrl+Alt+F2 shows system console #2, ... On system console #1 you should see the last screen of the startup messages, you may be able to scroll backward to see earlier messages with Shift+PgUp and/or Shift+PgDown. If system console #2 shows a root command prompt, something that ends with the pound sign "#", try hitting "Enter" or "Return" key a few times, if it gives you more of those root command prompt, then the liveCD completed the boot up sequence. You can use the root command prompt to do anything. If the command prompt ends with "$", it is not a "root" prompt, just a regular prompt. If the prompt shows "login" on it, then it is a login prompt. Those prompts are setup by the liveCD builder(s).

Everything below assumes that the liveCD boot sequence completed and your system has problem with misconfigured Xorg.

The blank screen you saw is probably at system console #5, or system console #7. That is the graphical windowing system did not configure properly for your graphic card and/or monitor combination. Some times, it's the various display modes, sometimes, it's the timing and resolution that doesn't match the display's capabilities.

Most liveCD has some info on the first boot up screen, and allow you to use "F1", or "F2" key to show you different boot commands you can try. Take a look at those options and try one for "VESA", or "800x600" for screen resolution. VESA is a very old specification that mose graphic cards and monitors support. Generally, "VESA" is slower for graphic intensive, or more advanced functions. But for now, we may want to get some basic graphical window system to display.

Regardless of having windowing system running in VESA mode or not, chances are you still need to find ways to configure Xorg to use your combination of graphic card and monitor. You may have to ask on some Ubuntu forum about how to run the command(s) to configure Xorg for you graphic card and monitor combination, be sure to specify your Ubunto flavor (Ubuntu, Kbuntu, Edubuntu, Ubuntu Studio...) and version number, because from time to time, different versions may have different set of commands to try.

With ATI, and nVidia cards, many people will want to use the proprietary display driver with currently still require a kernel compilation, and/or proprietary display driver compilation. Which generally makes more sense after you installed Linux on hard drive first. Unless you want to do your own liveCD customization, which I don't think you are.

If you already decided to use Ubuntu (or any other distro), stay with it, that should get you to the right direction.

If you have not decided on what Linux distro to use, feel free to try other liveCDs to see if they recognize and configure your graphic card any better. I have tried a few Debian compatible distros.

Some fairly small distros (50MB-120MB) are Damn Small Linux, Puppy Linux. Other Debian compatible liveCD's might be Musix, 64Studio, Sidux, GRML, Knoppix (liveDVD only now???) ... Distrowatch.com has a decent list of popular Linux distros and generally has direct links to those liveCD ISO images.

Sometimes, if you boot up with a liveCD that configure your graphic card properly, you can try to copy the

/etc/X11/xorg.conf

from that working session. Try to use it in the session you have troubles with to see if it helps. Of cousre there are a few steps to try with that, even then, it may still not work because of version differences of Xorg itself used by different distros (mainly release dates).

Although, from a liveCD session, most everything are in RAM (temporary memory). When you reboot, all you changes are gone.

Puppy Linux allows you to save the session changes back onto the liveCD and uses that for the following session. When your Puppy cd/dvd is full, you can even migrate to a new cd/dvd, from what I have read. That's the claim, I haven't tried Puppy Linux myself yet. Of course, running from liveCD/DVD will be much slower than running from hard drive.

Jimmy

Anomaly
06-25-2008, 01:13 AM
Thanks Jimmy

That was lots of help. I'm going to go and try what happens now and will report back.

cheers

spmbtng
06-25-2008, 01:49 PM
Thanks Jimmy

That was lots of help. I'm going to go and try what happens now and will report back.

cheers



You're most welcome, Anomaly.

Here's someone else having black screen with nVidia card using Debian derivative distros. I don't know his exact card model, but the approach should be noted and tried, because each card model may behave differently.

http://www.justlinux.com/forum/printthread.php?t=151318&pp=40

Basically, different distro packaging may have its own quirks. If folks who have problems report them to the distribution developers, especially with resolution to the problem(s), hopefully it will be logged as a bug report and tested for later releases. Without formal bug reports in their system, the problem may fall through the cracks and may never get fixed. Hint, hint... you may want to file a bug report to Ubuntu on this one.

Jimmy


P.S. -- some other notes with configuring Xorg in that discussion thread, let me quote that below:


After several months of messing around with different distros, and sort of solving my resolution problem by dumb luck. I had finally had a satisfactory Ubuntu system set up, I settled in to read a book about Ubuntu, which coinicidentally showed me the real solution to my Ubuntu resolution problem almost immediately. I didn't need to edit my xorg.conf file. I needed to run

sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg

to redo the x.org configuration, and when prompted for the BUS ID, I needed to reply with the BUS ID for the nvidia video card I wanted to use and, not the onboard intel card, and I got that information by running


sudo X :1 -scanpci

and THAT'S why you need to read the fabulous manual. Cause it saves time.

prschmitt
06-26-2008, 08:06 PM
Cool, I'll try it. However, there is no gdiplus in Wine's system32 directory. I assume I should just drop it in there, yes ? Also, the DLL I downloaded is dated from 2004, should I look for a later version ?

Here's the basic procedure from another thread:

CLICK! (http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php?p=192994&postcount=3)

I just snarfed the dll from XP's sytem32 dir IIRC.

Hope that helps.

StudioDave
07-03-2008, 07:32 AM
Quentin Hartley has put together a compleat solution for 64 Studio users who want to try Reaper. He's packaged Wine 1.0 and wineasio, all I had to do was install them via Synaptic.

I registered wineasio in the usual way, started Jack and jackbridge (in that order), started Reaper, configured it for ASIO, and connected the jackbridge outputs to the alsa_pcm ports in QJackCtl.

Everything worked nicely. Big kudos to Quentin for his work. For more information see Quentin's Howto :

http://www.64studio.com/node/636

For the technically adept: It's worth noting that this setup is without a chroot, so the normal user needs to do no special work beyond the initial installation and configuration of the software. From what I understand so far, the entire operation takes place in 64-bit space, including the VST support.

Alex Stone
07-10-2008, 10:29 AM
For those who are interested, i've just installed the latest AutoHotKeys in Wine and it seems to be working ok.

Will post more as i learn more, but if there's any chaps more competent with AHK who are willing to install this in Wine 1.0, and test it out, any feedback would be appreciated.

Alex.

:)

Shan
07-10-2008, 04:40 PM
For those who are interested, i've just installed the latest AutoHotKeys in Wine and it seems to be working ok...

Alex.

:)

WHOA!!!! :o

Keep us posted on this. This GREAT news!!!

Shane

Bevosss
07-10-2008, 05:31 PM
For those who are interested, i've just installed the latest AutoHotKeys in Wine and it seems to be working ok.



Well...now you've gone too far by half!

I detect a Linux installation coming with my name on it... :D

Shan
07-10-2008, 11:01 PM
Well...now you've gone too far by half!

I detect a Linux installation coming with my name on it... :D


Even better! (http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=205371#post205371) :o

Shane :D

Alex Stone
07-30-2008, 05:04 AM
For all you wireless chaps eager to work in Reaper/linux...

http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/atheros-adds-linux-its-lineup

Alex.

StepOne
08-10-2008, 12:08 AM
All of you Linux Reaperites out there, I could use some assistance.

I have my system set up correctly for audio. I'm running Opensuse 11 x64, I compiled all the ALSA drivers, got Jack and Wine up and running. Almost everything is working correctly.

But, here is the problem:

My Layla3G has 8 analog I/Os, and 8 I/Os connected via ADAT for a total of 16. In Jack, my system is only showing 8 input (capture) and output (playback) plugs.

All the ADAT settings are correct inside echomixer, and it shows all 16 channels, but the rest of the system seems to only see the first 8.

Screenshot:
http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/178631/Linux3G.png

Any suggestions?

daverich
08-10-2008, 02:57 AM
did you create a file called .wineasiocfg in your home folder and put

ASIO_INPUTS=16
ASIO_OUTPUTS=16

in it?

Kind regards

Dave Rich

StepOne
08-10-2008, 11:34 AM
All of you Linux Reaperites out there, I could use some assistance.

I have my system set up correctly for audio. I'm running Opensuse 11 x64, I compiled all the ALSA drivers, got Jack and Wine up and running. Almost everything is working correctly.

But, here is the problem:

My Layla3G has 8 analog I/Os, and 8 I/Os connected via ADAT for a total of 16. In Jack, my system is only showing 8 input (capture) and output (playback) plugs.

All the ADAT settings are correct inside echomixer, and it shows all 16 channels, but the rest of the system seems to only see the first 8.

Screenshot:
http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/178631/Linux3G.png

Any suggestions?
did you create a file called .wineasiocfg in your home folder and put

ASIO_INPUTS=16
ASIO_OUTPUTS=16

in it?

Kind regards

Dave Rich

Yes, but it didn't give me more connections. I doubt it has anything to do with wineasio, I'm thinking it has something to do with ALSA, maybe I need to specify more channels in an ALSA configuration file somewhere?

Any other suggestions?

StepOne
08-10-2008, 03:39 PM
An update - Jack has 2 interface options for my Echo 3G:

hw 0,0: uses the Analog 1-8 I/Os
hw 0,1: uses the Digital 1-8 I/Os

Jack only lets me select one at a time, though. I can't figure out how to do both. Maybe some option at the command line or through jackbridge, I'm not sure yet.

StepOne
08-17-2008, 01:43 AM
I'm a bit underwhelmed with running Reaper in Linux.

I have tested on these distros:

Opensuse 11 x64 default / Opensuse 11 x64 realtime
Opensuse 11 x32 default / Opensuse 11 x32 realtime
Ubuntu 8.04 x64 generic

I've found that ASIO performance is roughly the same using Reaper under Wine, regardless of distro.

I've manually compiled the ALSA drivers, jack, wineasio, and installed wine on every distro. My audio interface (Echo Layla 3G) is set up, and all 16 I/Os are available to use through jack.

I am running jack in realtime mode, with soft mode off (with it on, the audio is more or less permamently fudged at low latencies). In Reaper, I have UI Updates set to unbuffered (flickery) and unchecked "use native events for synchronizing" for better performance.

Running the Bradsucks demo, I've had these results (44.1khz, 32bit):

64 samples (2.9ms latency):

Minor glitching every few seconds, xruns occasionally. Jack DSP load: 3-6%, Reaper FX Cpu Usage: ~12%.

128 samples (5.8ms latency):

Less glitching, less xruns, but they still occur. Jack DSP Load: 3-5%, Reaper FX Cpu Usage: ~10%.

256 samples (11.6ms latency):

No glitching or xruns. Jack DSP Load: 2-4%, Reaper Cpu Usage: 8-9%.


256 samples is the lowest I can go for glitch-free performance of the demo. Anyone have suggestions on how to decrease the glitching, so I can work at 64 or 128 samples? Also, how does this performance compare to others'?

For reference, there is absolutely no glitching of this project under windows @ 64 samples.

StepOne
08-17-2008, 01:53 PM
I'm currently running the Ubuntu x64 realtime kernel, set the priority to 89 in jack, and am now getting much less glitching @ 64 samples.

Scrolling and zooming are quite slow though, even with UI updates set to unbuffered.

Any other optimization suggestions for less glitching and better scrolling/zoom performance?

StepOne
08-19-2008, 09:33 AM
*crickets chirping* http://www.encircling.us/forums/images/smilies/smoke.gif

LateStarter
08-19-2008, 11:16 AM
does anything on the jack faq help?? also the README file in the .tar.gz has some file system info - I don't know if it's relevant to you.
http://jackaudio.org/faq

StepOne
08-19-2008, 12:39 PM
That doesn't help, as my ASIO / Jack performance is good enough for me, I'm more concerned over Reaper's sluggish GUI redraws under Wine, which makes it a PITA to work with, due to the ridiculously slow scrolling and zooming.

StepOne
08-21-2008, 06:03 PM
Well, the slow-as-molasses GUI performance under Linux had me moving back to Windows. It sucks, because I actually enjoy using Linux much more for everything else. Hopefully a future version of Wine will address this problem.

StudioDave
08-22-2008, 03:32 AM
Well, the slow-as-molasses GUI performance under Linux had me moving back to Windows. It sucks, because I actually enjoy using Linux much more for everything else. Hopefully a future version of Wine will address this problem.

I looked back at some of your previous posts but I didn't see a mention of your graphics hardware (sorry if I missed it). What card/chipset are you using ?

StepOne
08-22-2008, 08:51 AM
NVIDIA 8800GTX, with the envy NVIDIA drivers under Ubuntu.

StepOne
08-22-2008, 06:46 PM
It seems Ubuntu's built in desktop effects manager (what I call Compiz lite) causes the horrible redraw performance under wine when it's in use. I kinda liked those desktop effects...oh well.

Warpticon
08-22-2008, 07:18 PM
I love compiz, especially the 3D desktop. It makes it very easy to manage my windows. It's a process hog, though, so I have to kill it for serious work. Maybe when I get a faster compluter...:) Glad you found the issue.

Alex Stone
10-02-2008, 12:52 AM
It's been a while since the last update, (Been writing music which is, after all, the whole purpose of what we do), but this is a brief note to draw attention to a command line app called jconv, that's extremely powerful, and simple to setup and use.

Jconv is a standalone convolution reverb, that sits in your signal chain, supplying, well, convolution reverb. And the beauty of this little app is the user definability with the use of .conf files, where you can set the parameters of the app.

How does it work?

Each 'instance' consists of two parts, the wav you intend to use, and a .conf file for that wav.

To start jconv, simply cd to the dir where the wav and .conf file reside (and we'll use chapel.conf for this example), and issue the command:

jconv chapel.conf


That's it. The app starts and you'll see the ins and outs in your particular patchbay app. I haven't tried this with Reaper yet, but with Ardour, it rocks. I use a post send on a track, out to jconv, and bring it back in to a stereo track to use a gain on the signal.

In this age of flashy guis, and all singing, all dancing, plugins etc, the command line apps often get overlooked, but they can work not only as well, but possibly better, free of the necessity of using cycles to run pictures.

Jconv was built by a near legend in linux app circles, Fons Adriensen, and there are other apps on his little site, including the now famous Aeolus synthesised pipe organ.

http://www.kokkinizita.net/linuxaudio


Alex.

Alex Stone
10-02-2008, 01:58 AM
After reading the riveting series of articles StudioDave wrote for Linux Journals about Java tools for us audio chaps, i was tempted to try one of the apps.

Jedit is a Java editor that, as i understand from the article, is fairly popular with developers and programmers, but it's an editor at the end of the day, and after installing it, i can see why it gets a degree of kudos.
There are a wealth of plugins available for the editor, related to specific tasks, and one of these is "LilypondTool".
For those that are unaware, lilypond is a text based app for writing notation, and has been a stalwart of notation engraving for some time. I'm still learning the syntax for this app, and have explored more than one GUI that is built to make the process of building scores and parts in lilypond easier for the non text savvy engraver. (Denemo is a fast improving app for just such a task, to name one...)

Lilypondtool seeks to add to this tuxified harem of sumptuous offerings, as a plugin in Jedit, and is, like properly organised apps and plugin directories, easy to install.

Once installed, the main edit window presents lilypond syntax in its normal format, and from there the user can edit, add, remove, etc as desired. There's also a template wizard (among other wizards) that helps to setup a full score template (if desired), or any size or nature of ensemble.

And this is as far as i got. I got a Beanshell error when further editing the text, and for some reason i can't add pages to the score, but i qualify this with my perchance for user error, so more work is needed on my part to sort out the challenges.

In the template wizard, nearly all orchestral instruments are represented, except for the notable omission of Bass Clarinet, which didn't appear in my list at all.
I can see the potential in lilypondtool, and will persist with it for the time being. As an engraver for score and part, and given its all architecture java base, i would think it highly useful for writing parts on the fly, and in particular, provide a lightweight, non cpu munching, means of scoring for a laptop, or smaller pc with fewer HW resources.

Java has its critics, and seems to have suffered from some degree of derision over time, but it does fill an important role, and the multi architecture nature of the language is a plus. (imho)

I would hope that i can get lilypondtool running smoothly soon, and explore further the notational/engraving possibilites this app/plugin has to offer. Lilypond is a the runaway winner in the engraved appearance stakes for printed notation, so any means of utilising this must be worth pursuing.


Alex.

The linux journal article in question. My thanks to StudioDave for bringing these apps to our attention.

http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/java-sound-music-software-linux-part-3

Alex Stone
10-02-2008, 02:28 AM
It seems Ubuntu's built in desktop effects manager (what I call Compiz lite) causes the horrible redraw performance under wine when it's in use. I kinda liked those desktop effects...oh well.

StepOne, i've just read up through your posts.

I've got Compiz turned off permanently. It makes a difference here, and i'm using an ATI card to do the graphics (itself having its own challenges.. :) )

It would be fair to say that running heavy graphics effects, and a programme designed to use fairly heavy graphic redraw capability is going to tax the system somewhat.

Having your cake and eating it too may not be possible just yet... :D

Alex.

GermanFafian
10-02-2008, 02:55 AM
Hi there everyone.
First off. This thread has been quite entertaining and enlightening at the same time.
I'm a big fan of GNU/Linux but have kept to Wins for music making. Since I started to use Reaper I have come across this and another thread about Linux users running Reaper and using it on a daily basis and decided to take the plunge 100% and make my next batch of guitar tunes in Linux.
Most of my commercial Win plugs seem to work fine under Wine except for ManyBass which I will look more into.
One thing though. I use Ubuntu mainly and even though I installed wine and Reaper and everything was fine. As soon as I installed and tried using the rt kernel I could not get my system to run. It just gets to the splash screen and the then it blacks out. I re-boot and use the older non rt kernel and everything starts normally but now Reaper does not load any plugs :(
I installed the Ubuntu studio desktop so it might have something to do with it.
Is there a recommended audio distro?
I have an AMD64 Athlon, M-audio 1010 24/96 and an Nvidia GForce something ;)
I'm downloading the live distro of 64studio AMD64 just in case, but any advice would be highly appreciated

Alex Stone
10-02-2008, 03:16 AM
Hi there everyone.
First off. This thread has been quite entertaining and enlightening at the same time.
I'm a big fan of GNU/Linux but have kept to Wins for music making. Since I started to use Reaper I have come across this and another thread about Linux users running Reaper and using it on a daily basis and decided to take the plunge 100% and make my next batch of guitar tunes in Linux.
Most of my commercial Win plugs seem to work fine under Wine except for ManyBass which I will look more into.
One thing though. I use Ubuntu mainly and even though I installed wine and Reaper and everything was fine. As soon as I installed and tried using the rt kernel I could not get my system to run. It just gets to the splash screen and the then it blacks out. I re-boot and use the older non rt kernel and everything starts normally but now Reaper does not load any plugs :(
I installed the Ubuntu studio desktop so it might have something to do with it.
Is there a recommended audio distro?
I have an AMD64 Athlon, M-audio 1010 24/96 and an Nvidia GForce something ;)
I'm downloading the live distro of 64studio AMD64 just in case, but any advice would be highly appreciated

Gf, Welcome!

First question. Which RT kernel did you install? If it matches the generic kernel then the problem lies elsewhere. You'll need to check if the kernel numbers match exactly.

Next, there's some chatter in various forums about NVidia cards, and a few challenges with the latest RT kernel/Ubuntu. I'm not sure of the current state of play here, but can you tell us if you're using the generic nvidia driver, or a restricted driver?

Next, when you get to the grub boot stage, pause it, and check the kernel boot line. Try adding:

nohz=off

to that line. (e for edit, edit, then reboot.)


If you do this, then get back here with the results.

Alex.

StudioDave
10-02-2008, 08:17 AM
After reading the riveting series of articles StudioDave wrote...

So I'm "riveting" now, am I ? :)

Java has its critics, and seems to have suffered from some degree of derision over time, but it does fill an important role, and the multi architecture nature of the language is a plus. (imho)

True. In the first article in the series I noted that Java's cross-platform viability is a major appeal for programmers. Alas, its sound API is simply not keeping up with the times. IMO it needs overhauled for all platforms.

I would hope that i can get lilypondtool running smoothly soon, and explore further the notational/engraving possibilites this app/plugin has to offer. Lilypond is a the runaway winner in the engraved appearance stakes for printed notation, so any means of utilising this must be worth pursuing.

I had no troubles with that software. I manually installed jEdit to my $HOME directory and I put the LilyPondTool stuff in a directory under the jEdit installation directory. I start jEdit, and the plugin is loaded automatically.

The linux journal article in question. My thanks to StudioDave for bringing these apps to our attention.

http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/java-sound-music-software-linux-part-3

For the perhaps even more riveting Parts 1 & 2 :

http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/java-sound-music-software-linux-part-1

http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/java-sound-music-software-linux-part-2

:)

StudioDave
10-02-2008, 08:31 AM
I use Ubuntu mainly and even though I installed wine and Reaper and everything was fine. As soon as I installed and tried using the rt kernel I could not get my system to run. It just gets to the splash screen and the then it blacks out. I re-boot and use the older non rt kernel and everything starts normally but now Reaper does not load any plugs :(
I installed the Ubuntu studio desktop so it might have something to do with it.
Is there a recommended audio distro?
I have an AMD64 Athlon, M-audio 1010 24/96 and an Nvidia GForce something ;)
I'm downloading the live distro of 64studio AMD64 just in case, but any advice would be highly appreciated

I run two systems here at StudioDave, both based on AMD64 CPUs, both with M-Audio sound hardware (Delta 66 cards), and both running nVidia graphics cards (7600 GS) with nVidia's closed-source driver. One machine is running the 64 Studio distribution, a pure 64-bit Linux audio-optimized system based on the Debian distribution. The other machine runs a 32-bit system, the Jacklab Audio Distribution (JAD 1.0), which is based on the OpenSUSE 10.2 distribution. I run Reaper on both boxes, though I'm not really much of a user. I mainly use it to teach sequencing and DAW basics to my Windows/Mac-based students, but most of my other audio recording purposes are served by Ardour.

I plan to add another disk to the 32-bit box. I want to return to the Planet CCRMA system, and I''ll probably install the Arch system as well (it's been highly recommended by another Linux audio friend).

Btw, if you don't need accelerated 3D graphics you might prefer using the kernel's open-source nVidia driver.

HTH. :)

tweed
10-08-2009, 04:05 PM
OT a bit:
Anyone know the secret to getting audio out of REAPER running in Virtualbox IN XP as a guest on a LINUX alsa host?

So, I've got my laptop running linux with alsa working well, I have virtualbox running with an XP guest in it.

The setting in Linux Virtualbox as Alsa / ICH AC97 AND I did install realtec drivers in the Vbox guest XP.

Thing is that when set to direct sound / and use realtek drivers I get an eventual bluescreen after a few minutes of REAPER not willing to play at all.

I've tried all the things on the Vbox forums I think.
That's where I got the realtek drivers.

I can only get REAPER to play at all with asio4all and asio driver setting in the XP vbox guest install.

If I go to device manager and do a search for hardware changes it dumps the realtek driver and goes back to the intel driver that the laptop has as it's driver in the linux host, which is accurate of course.

ANY tips GREATLY appreciated.

BASICALLY REAPER will not budge play-wise.