Newbie hoping to get some hardcore help!

[eimatam]

Hello there! How are you doing? Well long story short I got hyped to create some music and I found out that reaper software is one of the most advanced one and well I gotta say, I have never been "friends" with music at all, all I know there is do-re-mi (Might be different in english ?).. Well anyways, so I got reaper and I faceplant the harsh reality, I don't know what should I do, how should I start.. I would like to create some dubstep, electro or house and so here are my questions, it would be just more than awesome if I could get any answers.

1: What is/are kick, subs, bassline, snare, pad, synths, hats/cymbals ? What instruments do I use to create them ? What kind of frequence in EQ should I Use for each one of them ?

2: Where should I start at my song ?

3: What plugins would you recommend using (I downloaded bunch of random ones) ?

Thanks in advance!! I might have more questions later, but as for now I would be so grateful for any kind of answer! :)

[viscofisy]

To be honest, you really have to google stuff and look for beginners tutorials, because what you're asking is for a complete guide from scratch!.....when you can find out most of that online.

From the stuff you listed, most of it is drum kit pieces.

Except for

*basslines - which are notes played on...... a bass;
*synths - which are synthesisers
*pads - which are particular types of synthesiser sounds

You need to decide for yourself where to start your song.
Maybe with a drum rhythm?

You'd be better to take one step at a time, have a think about how a song is built, and then ask one specific question at a time.


So your first question might be :
"How do I make a basic drum pattern in Reaper?".

[PigPenofsoftware]

Reaper comes with a bunch of plug-ins already. When you can't find what you need there only then should you go looking for stuff to add.

Start really simple.

What you are hoping to do is very complex.

It took me 3 weeks from downloading Reaper to mixing a guitar track and a vocal track. And I didn't even do the recording on Reaper!

Just comprehending the vocabulary and the functions in Reaper is a large task (even if your native language is English and you have a complete grasp of frequency, phase, attenuation, filtering, latency, and many other basics)

Book- Home Recording for Beginners is helpful because the examples are Reaper specific.

[eimatam]

To be honest, you really have to google stuff and look for beginners tutorials, because what you're asking is for a complete guide from scratch!.....when you can find out most of that online.

From the stuff you listed, most of it is drum kit pieces.

Except for

*basslines - which are notes played on...... a bass;
*synths - which are synthesisers
*pads - which are particular types of synthesiser sounds

You need to decide for yourself where to start your song.
Maybe with a drum rhythm?

You'd be better to take one step at a time, have a think about how a song is built, and then ask one specific question at a time.


So your first question might be :
"How do I make a basic drum pattern in Reaper?".

Yep I did ask a lot of questions, but I did some research on the internet, nothing to be found, but now I understood my mistake as PigPenofsoftware said, I should look for tutorials overall and not specific for reaper. But still thanks for the answer!

[ponk]

You can start out easy, though, and learn as you go. Here's a five minute vid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fSTUluQ-f0) on how to make a song with loops and vstis - enough to get you started, and to help find what to ask for. To quote Lao Tse, "a journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step"

But you still gotta read the user guide :)

[eimatam]

Reaper comes with a bunch of plug-ins already. When you can't find what you need there only then should you go looking for stuff to add.

Start really simple.

What you are hoping to do is very complex.

It took me 3 weeks from downloading Reaper to mixing a guitar track and a vocal track. And I didn't even do the recording on Reaper!

Just comprehending the vocabulary and the functions in Reaper is a large task (even if your native language is English and you have a complete grasp of frequency, phase, attenuation, filtering, latency, and many other basics)

Book- Home Recording for Beginners is helpful because the examples are Reaper specific.

I see, well yep I expected too much, but I"m sure it will pay off at the end. Also, now after I wrote this thread, I found a lot of tutorials, but most of them are on cubase (like how to make the beats or just a person showing how he created a whole song), am I okay with watching those ? (I mean it is a different platform, but almost the same thing), also I would like to know what are "many other basics" ? (Sorry for bugging you so much, I really hope I won't give you a headache, but I"m very thankful for yours and everyone's answers).

[eimatam]

You can start out easy, though, and learn as you go. Here's a five minute vid (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fSTUluQ-f0) on how to make a song with loops and vstis - enough to get you started, and to help find what to ask for. To quote Lao Tse, "a journey of a thousand miles starts with the first step"

But you still gotta read the user guide :)

Yep saw it already, I did learn the basics of reaper, now I need to learn the basics of music itself.. :P

P.S That's a nice quote.

[jerome_oneil]

I rarely say this, but you shouldn't be using Reaper right now. Get Garage Band, or it's Windows equivalent (Fruity Loops?) and start there. You'll be making music faster, and you will come to understand all those things in a more user friendly way.

When you're ready to make the leap, you'll know.

[eimatam]

I rarely say this, but you shouldn't be using Reaper right now. Get Garage Band, or it's Windows equivalent (Fruity Loops?) and start there. You'll be making music faster, and you will come to understand all those things in a more user friendly way.

When you're ready to make the leap, you'll know.

I see.. I will probably do as you say, thanks!

p.s I hope they do have trial versions tho.

[Cosmic]

"Faceplant the harsh reality"

Oh god I love the way you young people talk!

I have a feeling you're gonna be good at music..just take yer time and google EVERY SINGLE QUESTION you have.

Thats how I started

And in fact thats what I still do..I type questions into Google on every subject.I'm sure everyone does at this stage.

Anyway..good luck and good to have you here

[whiteaxxxe]

not ontopic, but ... when I started there was no Google. there were books ... you know, the kind where people type or print something onto paper, 400 pages of paper glued together to a big pile you first had to find in a library (where thousands to millions of these books were on big shelves in large halls), take it home and read it.

and no search engine. you had to guess by title whats in the book.

oh my, what times ... what a great big bullshit!! :(

and the problem nowadays with the internet is, that all the information is so cluttered up and all over the place. if you had a good book in former times you didnt need a second book. if you were lucky ...

[ponk]

btw, welcome to the forums! One of the best places to start is an excellent, free course from Berklee Collge of Music, introduction to music production (https://www.coursera.org/course/musicproduction) - covers most of the common "how to get started" questions, next session begins April 21st. And of course, keep asking questions here :)

[jerome_oneil]

I see.. I will probably do as you say, thanks!

p.s I hope they do have trial versions tho.

Garage Band is free. Don't know about Windows stuff, but I'm sure there is something out there.

Once you do start to grok this stuff, you'll find Reaper to be completely awesome.

[PigPenofsoftware]

I found that googling just opened too many universes of things I didn't understand and too many pathways to stuff I didn't need yet.

The Home Recording book (there is a Kindle version) kept me focused on fundamental things and gave specific words for actions in Reaper. Unfortunately, the vocabulary you use matters a great deal when you are learning things for the first time.

For instance- what word should you use for the action of saving the work you've done in Reaper into a file so that your music can be played on your computer?

The brown cloud over my head had several suggestions based on past experience but none worked.
The magic word is 'render.' It makes sense in hindsight but it isn't anything that I could google or find in the user manual to help me.
There are a lot of magic words in the world of DAWs.

Combining the Home Recording book with excursions into the user manual started building my vocabulary and now I can do about 5% of what Reaper is capable of.

I faceplanted very quickly on drums in my first day or two and decided I'll try that later. I don't know when I'll get back to trying them.
I may just revert to whacking on a cardboard box and recording that for simple drum sound. I'll get a result on that weeks before the MIDI version....

[eimatam]

"Faceplant the harsh reality"

Oh god I love the way you young people talk!

I have a feeling you're gonna be good at music..just take yer time and google EVERY SINGLE QUESTION you have.

Thats how I started

And in fact thats what I still do..I type questions into Google on every subject.I'm sure everyone does at this stage.

Anyway..good luck and good to have you here

Hehe don't be so judging. Thanks tho! Good luck for you as well. :]

[eimatam]

I found that googling just opened too many universes of things I didn't understand and too many pathways to stuff I didn't need yet.

The Home Recording book (there is a Kindle version) kept me focused on fundamental things and gave specific words for actions in Reaper. Unfortunately, the vocabulary you use matters a great deal when you are learning things for the first time.

For instance- what word should you use for the action of saving the work you've done in Reaper into a file so that your music can be played on your computer?

The brown cloud over my head had several suggestions based on past experience but none worked.
The magic word is 'render.' It makes sense in hindsight but it isn't anything that I could google or find in the user manual to help me.
There are a lot of magic words in the world of DAWs.

Combining the Home Recording book with excursions into the user manual started building my vocabulary and now I can do about 5% of what Reaper is capable of.

I faceplanted very quickly on drums in my first day or two and decided I'll try that later. I don't know when I'll get back to trying them.
I may just revert to whacking on a cardboard box and recording that for simple drum sound. I'll get a result on that weeks before the MIDI version....

Well ok then.. You persuaded me to read it, thanks for your answer once again!

[PigPenofsoftware]

Well ok then.. You persuaded me to read it, thanks for your answer once again!

For me it was really, really important. Without that introduction and vocabulary lessons I couldn't even use this very forum because I had no understanding of what the questions were asking nor what the answers meant.
Sometimes the answers contain magic words from other DAWs.

You KNOW you are in trouble when you are 3 steps below 'newbie.' That was me a month ago.

Now I'm only 2 steps below 'newbie' but coming up fast :-)

[eimatam]

Once again, I cannot stress enough how much do I appreciate your answers, but that last question still remains, can I watch tutorials on other platforms and then try performing them on reaper (/garageband).

[jerome_oneil]

Once again, I cannot stress enough how much do I appreciate your answers, but that last question still remains, can I watch tutorials on other platforms and then try performing them on reaper (/garageband).

Yes, and you should. Right now you should be looking to understand concepts. If you can apply a concept on multiple DAWs, then you probably get the concept. If you're just following along rote, then you probably don't.

[ponk]

Once again, I cannot stress enough how much do I appreciate your answers, but that last question still remains, can I watch tutorials on other platforms and then try performing them on reaper (/garageband).

Again, take this free course:
https://www.coursera.org/course/musicproduction
All tutorials can be done in Reaper.

[PigPenofsoftware]

Once again, I cannot stress enough how much do I appreciate your answers, but that last question still remains, can I watch tutorials on other platforms and then try performing them on reaper (/garageband).

You can do anything you want and decide for your self it they are helpful. We're not the boss of you! :-)

I've been reading and watching stuff from TheRecordingRevolution recently and found it useful for learning concepts and techniques generally. But those particular videos aren't about how to operate ProTools - they are about the concepts. (some of which have magic words associated with them and might not mean anything until you've tried manipulating the equivalent tools yourself)

Learning stuff is iterative. The more you know, the more you can learn. It's just that starting from zero is really hard because the stuff you hear is just jibberish for awhile. Sounds like English but the words don't mean anything for you at first.

[lpcrispo]

the best thing I did was record a demo album with my band and sit beside the "audio guy" and watch him ( he was an amateur guy, but still he knew a lot more than I).

then i bought my own recording gears and bought all of Kenny Gioia's tuts on groove3! watched all of the recordingrevolutions tuts on youtube too...

then i recorded my band's first real album ( releasing in the near future :P) by myself!!

[eimatam]

Again, take this free course:
https://www.coursera.org/course/musicproduction
All tutorials can be done in Reaper.

I will do that, tho I have never done that before, I'm not even sure how it works.

You can do anything you want and decide for your self it they are helpful. We're not the boss of you! :-)

I've been reading and watching stuff from TheRecordingRevolution recently and found it useful for learning concepts and techniques generally. But those particular videos aren't about how to operate ProTools - they are about the concepts. (some of which have magic words associated with them and might not mean anything until you've tried manipulating the equivalent tools yourself)

Learning stuff is iterative. The more you know, the more you can learn. It's just that starting from zero is really hard because the stuff you hear is just jibberish for awhile. Sounds like English but the words don't mean anything for you at first.

It's indeed the same now, looks like english, but I don't know what anything means.. :p I will check out TheRecordingRevolution as well. (Pretty sure if I learn the concepts and those "magic" words, I won't need additional tutorials for reaper itself)

the best thing I did was record a demo album with my band and sit beside the "audio guy" and watch him ( he was an amateur guy, but still he knew a lot more than I).

then i bought my own recording gears and bought all of Kenny Gioia's tuts on groove3! watched all of the recordingrevolutions tuts on youtube too...

then i recorded my band's first real album ( releasing in the near future :P) by myself!!

Sadly I don't have any friends that would be interested in creating music with me, tho I will check out recordingrevolutions as I already stated, thanks for the answer!

P.S And once again there is a new question, EQ, I just want to know if I "understood" the meaning of it. So EQ helps me to fit my music sounds into 20-20000 hz "box" ? But each of those sounds has to has it's own frequency part ? (Let's say drums at 80hz and kick at 200hz ? Those numbers are fictional as I didn't get into them yet. And if I overlap the sounds of 2 instruments into the same hz it will sound badly ?

Let's say I found this in one of the tutorials: http://www.iub.edu/~emusic/361/images/rsn/rsnmixeqlowpass.png

So the spectrum of this is set from 20hz and starts drop of at 1.3khz , and most of the images are like this (in the tutorials), one instruments takes over more than half of the equalizer.. So now about the picture, does it mean I can't place anything else in that spectrum because if will overlap with the first instrument ? Or does it mean something else ? Thanks again!

[PigPenofsoftware]

P.S And once again there is a new question, EQ, I just want to know if I "understood" the meaning of it. So EQ helps me to fit my music sounds into 20-20000 hz "box" ? But each of those sounds has to has it's own frequency part ? (Let's say drums at 80hz and kick at 200hz ? Those numbers are fictional as I didn't get into them yet. And if I overlap the sounds of 2 instruments into the same hz it will sound badly ?

Let's say I found this in one of the tutorials: http://www.iub.edu/~emusic/361/images/rsn/rsnmixeqlowpass.png


EQ is a very important magic word and means "adjusting the sounds using frequency boost or suppression filters."

"To EQ" something actually doesn't say what is being done.

The graph you posted is a low pass filter. It rolls off (or suppresses) frequencies above 1.3khz. (that's actually a pretty low frequency for the low pass setting). There would be a LOT of discussion behind why you would do that.
It's more common to roll off all tracks except drums at 100Hz and below to suppress room rumble. That would be a high pass filter - passing everything higher than 100 Hz. Another common low pass filter is used to roll off freqs in vocals higher than say 5 kHz - this reduces the S sounds (also known as a de-esser).

EQ can be used many more ways. (reading, videos, and tinkering on your own DAW with your own tracks is where to learn it. I learned a lot of this from RecordingRevolution blog articles but I already know the concepts from my electrical engineering background.)

The question about instruments and their frequencies is more foundational.
The simple theory is that overlapping frequencies in the mix make an ugly mess when mixed together. I've proved that to myself by recording the same 12 string guitar playing different styles (picking or strumming) then trying to combine them using panning L and R. It just made a mess when listened to because they occupied the same frequencies.

[eimatam]

EQ is a very important magic word and means "adjusting the sounds using frequency boost or suppression filters."

"To EQ" something actually doesn't say what is being done.

The graph you posted is a low pass filter. It rolls off (or suppresses) frequencies above 1.3khz. (that's actually a pretty low frequency for the low pass setting). There would be a LOT of discussion behind why you would do that.
It's more common to roll off all tracks except drums at 100Hz and below to suppress room rumble. That would be a high pass filter - passing everything higher than 100 Hz. Another common low pass filter is used to roll off freqs in vocals higher than say 5 kHz - this reduces the S sounds (also known as a de-esser).

EQ can be used many more ways. (reading, videos, and tinkering on your own DAW with your own tracks is where to learn it. I learned a lot of this from RecordingRevolution blog articles but I already know the concepts from my electrical engineering background.)

The question about instruments and their frequencies is more foundational.
The simple theory is that overlapping frequencies in the mix make an ugly mess when mixed together. I've proved that to myself by recording the same 12 string guitar playing different styles (picking or strumming) then trying to combine them using panning L and R. It just made a mess when listened to because they occupied the same frequencies.

And what happens if let's say I have 2 instruments (/sounds) and I make one of them 20hz-5khz and other 20hz-1.3hz (once again random numbers, but they both occupy 20hz-1.3khz room), will they overlap ? If yes, what to do that they wouldn't overlap ? If no, what happens then ? Thanks in advance.

[PigPenofsoftware]

And what happens if let's say I have 2 instruments (/sounds) and I make one of them 20hz-5khz and other 20hz-1.3hz (once again random numbers, but they both occupy 20hz-1.3khz room), will they overlap ? If yes, what to do that they wouldn't overlap ? If no, what happens then ? Thanks in advance.

Remember that I'm 2 steps below Newbie myself but -

I think the advice would be to roll off the 1st instrument somewhat below 1.3 kHz. Or arrange the music so they don't play at the same time. Or roll one off while the other is brought up then switch them later when it makes sense (different verse?). Or try to find better definition in the frequencies they actually occupy and see if they separate when looked at with a finer view.

There probably is not a 'formula' answer for this. Do what sounds good.
But expect you'll have to deal with the overlap somehow to get a good clean sound. You can separate them in - time, frequency, or space (stereo).

I forgot to mention in my example of the 2 guitars - two sounded really great in headphones because of the complete stereo separation. But in mono it was really bad.

Perfect mixes sound good in : stereo, mono, on nice headphones, on cheap earbuds, in your car stereo, and in the speaker over your table in the restaurant. (good luck with all that!)

TheRecordingRevolution blogs cover this kind of stuff over and over again - mixing and some ways to approach issues like this.

Reaper has a mono button on the Master Track so you can check out the mono sound as you make your mix.

[whiteaxxxe]

And what happens if let's say I have 2 instruments (/sounds) and I make one of them 20hz-5khz and other 20hz-1.3hz (once again random numbers, but they both occupy 20hz-1.3khz room), will they overlap ? If yes, what to do that they wouldn't overlap ? If no, what happens then ? Thanks in advance.

you cant say that. dont look at the numbers. eq is about listening. there are no sets of rules. record something and play with an eq to get a grasp of what the knobs do and (important) how that sounds.

you will get it relative quickly. the rest is experience. some of that "rules" will then make sense if you know what they are talking about and that it depends.

I made songs with 15 - 18 equal sounding guitars and sure they mashed up, thats what I wanted. so you have no rule that in every case is right as saying such things that instruments are not allowed to take up the same space frequency wise. what should a symphonie orchestra do? there is no mixer and lots of the instruments take up the same space frequency wise. there are up to 20 violins playing in the same space for example.

these rules about equing are a line you can stumble along when running into problems, as for example you have a guitar and a piano and they disturb each other. normally its absolute ok if they occupy the same space and play nice along. they do since ages in all live music, that is not amplified or mixed.

starters are overwhelmed by all this gadgets and scientic phrases and terms that are the secret language of musicians. :) and by eq, vst, vsti, samples, samplerate, resolution, panning and whatever ... dont oberthink it. start making music, record something and see how it sounds and the work on it and record more and see what falls into places and where problems occur. and care about the problems, the things that are ok are ok and dont bother about them.

do not try to have a grasp at everything and to have all the knowledge and then start making music.

that doesnt work.

make music and deal with the things as they come along.

[eimatam]

Remember that I'm 2 steps below Newbie myself but -

I think the advice would be to roll off the 1st instrument somewhat below 1.3 kHz. Or arrange the music so they don't play at the same time. Or roll one off while the other is brought up then switch them later when it makes sense (different verse?). Or try to find better definition in the frequencies they actually occupy and see if they separate when looked at with a finer view.

There probably is not a 'formula' answer for this. Do what sounds good.
But expect you'll have to deal with the overlap somehow to get a good clean sound. You can separate them in - time, frequency, or space (stereo).

I forgot to mention in my example of the 2 guitars - two sounded really great in headphones because of the complete stereo separation. But in mono it was really bad.

Perfect mixes sound good in : stereo, mono, on nice headphones, on cheap earbuds, in your car stereo, and in the speaker over your table in the restaurant. (good luck with all that!)

TheRecordingRevolution blogs cover this kind of stuff over and over again - mixing and some ways to approach issues like this.

Reaper has a mono button on the Master Track so you can check out the mono sound as you make your mix.

Ok here is one more image I found, I know you say you are "2 steps below the newbie" yourself, but well I"m 2 steps below you, so I still expect you to know way more than I do.

http://www.dnbscene.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=88.0;attach=78;ima ge

So basically, couple of sounds can occupy same frequency, as long as they have a different volume set up? Sorry for all these frustating question, but as I understand, understandment of eq is crucial for the "strong mass of music". I will watch some of therecordingrevolution , but I would like to at least understand what does it do.

[eimatam]

you cant say that. dont look at the numbers. eq is about listening. there are no sets of rules. record something and play with an eq to get a grasp of what the knobs do and (important) how that sounds.

you will get it relative quickly. the rest is experience. some of that "rules" will then make sense if you know what they are talking about and that it depends.

I made songs with 15 - 18 equal sounding guitars and sure they mashed up, thats what I wanted. so you have no rule that in every case is right as saying such things that instruments are not allowed to take up the same space frequency wise. what should a symphonie orchestra do? there is no mixer and lots of the instruments take up the same space frequency wise. there are up to 20 violins playing in the same space for example.

these rules about equing are a line you can stumble along when running into problems, as for example you have a guitar and a piano and they disturb each other. normally its absolute ok if they occupy the same space and play nice along. they do since ages in all live music, that is not amplified or mixed.

starters are overwhelmed by all this gadgets and scientic phrases and terms that are the secret language of musicians. :) and by eq, vst, vsti, samples, samplerate, resolution, panning and whatever ... dont oberthink it. start making music, record something and see how it sounds and the work on it and record more and see what falls into places and where problems occur. and care about the problems, the things that are ok are ok and dont bother about them.

do not try to have a grasp at everything and to have all the knowledge and then start making music.

that doesnt work.

make music and deal with the things as they come along.

Basically that's what I'm doing now, I did try to lay down some beats and loops just when I opened the program, as I thought it would be really easy, but then after doing that I understood, I have no ducking idea of what am I doing and what should I do. I didn't even know that you need to lay your music/sounds all over the frequency rate to make it sound strong.. I thought you just put some drums and effects and it's automatically like that. :p

[PigPenofsoftware]

Ok here is one more image I found, I know you say you are "2 steps below the newbie" yourself, but well I"m 2 steps below you, so I still expect you to know way more than I do.

http://www.dnbscene.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=88.0;attach=78;ima ge

So basically, couple of sounds can occupy same frequency, as long as they have a different volume set up? Sorry for all these frustating question, but as I understand, understandment of eq is crucial for the "strong mass of music". I will watch some of therecordingrevolution , but I would like to at least understand what does it do.

That is a graph of loudness vs frequency occupied of a drum set. Nice to know I guess but doesn't help you record good material. Set it aside until it becomes relevent.

The stuff I've been reading about mixing is more about how a kick drum and a slap bass occupy the same part of the spectrum and how they can be de-conflicted to sound good. (I don't have either one so it's not relevent to me.)

Not sure what you're doing but if you're putting down some drum beats into Reaper you're ahead of me on that. That exercise stumped me when I tried it and I've set it aside for some other time when I know more or really need it or decide to take on a really hard puzzle. (I don't even know how many bits and pieces of s/w are needed to make it play.)

Once you have the stuff recorded and you're stumped - that's what the book will help with. (I think)

[eimatam]

Oh well haha, do you remember me saying that I wasn't familiar with the music at all before my hype started.. ? Well I can prove that this way: I actually tough kick, pad, hats and other drums are not drums, I thought they are all created with different instruments (Like pad with drums, hats with violin or so)... Anyways..

What kind of interval would you offer for me to use in my drums loops ? so it wouldn't sound too fast but not too slow either.

[PigPenofsoftware]

What kind of interval would you offer for me to use in my drums loops ? so it wouldn't sound too fast but not too slow either.

There is a speed control in Reaper just to the right of the start/stop/pause buttons (the "transport buttons"). Experiment with that.
You can also type in the musical time signature 4/4 is the default.

It's up to you to figure out what you want. That's why it's called "art."

(This answer brought to you by the guy who hasn't figured out how to make drum sounds in his own copy of Reaper.)

[eimatam]

There is a speed control in Reaper just to the right of the start/stop/pause buttons (the "transport buttons"). Experiment with that.
You can also type in the musical time signature 4/4 is the default.

It's up to you to figure out what you want. That's why it's called "art."

(This answer brought to you by the guy who hasn't figured out how to make drum sounds in his own copy of Reaper.)

Could you maybe offer me some of recordingrevolution's most useful tutorials when starting ? I know all of their tutorials and tricks should be very good, but just to start off.

[PigPenofsoftware]

Could you maybe offer me some of recordingrevolution's most useful tutorials when starting ? I know all of their tutorials and tricks should be very good, but just to start off.

RR doesn't use Reaper in the videos so there's nothing there about where to find the buttons you want.

The RR blog has several articles and videos about making drums sound great but I think that's about real drums - not loops.

I realize your predicament is that you want to get started but don't have the vocabulary to ask specific questions (I'm pretty limited on that myself).

RR gives perspective on home recording - what's important, what's not, where you should spend your time (and not your money), and offers some techniques for mixing recorded tracks. It's possible that might not be where or how you want to start.

The Home Recording book is still my top choice for where to start.

[eimatam]

RR doesn't use Reaper in the videos so there's nothing there about where to find the buttons you want.

The RR blog has several articles and videos about making drums sound great but I think that's about real drums - not loops.

I realize your predicament is that you want to get started but don't have the vocabulary to ask specific questions (I'm pretty limited on that myself).

RR gives perspective on home recording - what's important, what's not, where you should spend your time (and not your money), and offers some techniques for mixing recorded tracks. It's possible that might not be where or how you want to start.

The Home Recording book is still my top choice for where to start.

Well I guess I don't really want to learn where are the buttons, but the concepts of music, mixing and eq and well yes I do want to build up my "music vocabulary". :)

[PigPenofsoftware]

Well I guess I don't really want to learn where are the buttons, but the concepts of music, mixing and eq and well yes I do want to build up my "music vocabulary". :)

RR will help with mixing and eq.

"music" is a really, really, really big subject ;-)

RR's advice along those lines are - work hard to be a good musician so you're recording good stuff. The better you perform, the better the recording, the better the final mix.

[whiteaxxxe]

There is a speed control in Reaper just to the right of the start/stop/pause buttons (the "transport buttons"). Experiment with that.
You can also type in the musical time signature 4/4 is the default.

...

dont.

dont do that.

dont use the speed control to adjust the tempo of your recording. that "speed control" manipulates the samplerate and alters the pitch if you change that.

and a tempo of a song has nothing to do with time signature. forget that real quickly. the tempo of the song is set in "beats per minute", BPM, and the time signature is set to something that fits the rythm of the song. mostly 4/4, but often 12/8 or 6/4 or 3/4. and after that it has some influence on the grid and the quantization.

oh my ... I would recommend a book about "what is music" in the first place.

I didnt sigh because of the lack of knowledge - I wont tell you what I did when I started making music, not funny - I sighed because there has to be a lot of knowledge before you should even start a DAW.

take some CDs, rock, classic, pop (from the 80s and more back, not nowadays pop), folkand easy listening. listen to it and think about what are the instruments? how many are playing? which are deep, which are high? do they all play together? do they all play different things? and why the f*#§ are they playing different notes and tones and it sounds together?

and so on and on ... go over to youtube and watch and listen to a symphony orchestra. thats the groundbreaking things to the question "what the f*#% is music and how the f#*& its is done?".

watch and learn. watch bands live playing. (I mean really live playing, playing instruments, not firing loops and sing or mimic to a playback.) figure out what the weird people on the stage with the even weirder things in their hands are doing. and stay away from loops. and HipHop and EDM. that bullshit doesnt do no good.

[PigPenofsoftware]

dont.

dont do that.

dont use the speed control to adjust the tempo of your recording. that "speed control" manipulates the samplerate and alters the pitch if you change that.



Sorry. Less than newbie misleading another less than newbie.

(I've not used those controls myself)

[eimatam]

dont.

dont do that.

dont use the speed control to adjust the tempo of your recording. that "speed control" manipulates the samplerate and alters the pitch if you change that.

and a tempo of a song has nothing to do with time signature. forget that real quickly. the tempo of the song is set in "beats per minute", BPM, and the time signature is set to something that fits the rythm of the song. mostly 4/4, but often 12/8 or 6/4 or 3/4. and after that it has some influence on the grid and the quantization.

oh my ... I would recommend a book about "what is music" in the first place.

I didnt sigh because of the lack of knowledge - I wont tell you what I did when I started making music, not funny - I sighed because there has to be a lot of knowledge before you should even start a DAW.

take some CDs, rock, classic, pop (from the 80s and more back, not nowadays pop), folkand easy listening. listen to it and think about what are the instruments? how many are playing? which are deep, which are high? do they all play together? do they all play different things? and why the f*#§ are they playing different notes and tones and it sounds together?

and so on and on ... go over to youtube and watch and listen to a symphony orchestra. thats the groundbreaking things to the question "what the f*#% is music and how the f#*& its is done?".

watch and learn. watch bands live playing. (I mean really live playing, playing instruments, not firing loops and sing or mimic to a playback.) figure out what the weird people on the stage with the even weirder things in their hands are doing. and stay away from loops. and HipHop and EDM. that bullshit doesnt do no good.

I appreciate your opinion, but with all the respect, not going to listen to it, but still thanks!

Anyways.. I'm reading the manual, I signed up for the online course (I think ponk told me about it), I find it quite useless to look at recordingrevolution at least for now, because I find it more not tutorial-like, but tips and tricks-like.. Tho yesterday I came across some videos/guys that showed how they created their song from 0 to 100, should I watch them (It's from around 30 to 120 minutes) ? Thanks in advance :)

[PigPenofsoftware]

After further study on the topic of drums for myself in Reaper I've concluded that there's so much to it that I'll have to set the idea completely aside until I find a tutorial that was typed very, very, slowly so that even I can understand it.

This seems to be another area in which those who know more than I do regard Reaper as incomplete. (it's probably more true that my expectations were wrong)

I consider myself demoted an additional grade below where I was as a sub-newbie due to failing drums.

[ponk]

Hey, PPoS - funny post, but you haven't failed anything. As you have surmised, Reaper comes with nothing in the way of drums. It does come with a powerful, and complex, sampler (RS5k), and some generous users have come up with some amazing kits to use with it. Pretty difficult for a new user, though to be fair all decent samplers are somewhat complex.

There are easier ways to start out, though. I'd suggest looking at loops and software drum machines. Download a copy of MT Power Drum Kit (http://www.powerdrumkit.com) - a free, easy to use vsti, and just start playing around with sounds and midi. Also try the Addictive Drums (http://www.xlnaudio.com/install) free demo, to get a feeling for what a software drummer feels like.

Programming drums from scratch can be a bear, so hope some of this out of the box stuff can help.

[PigPenofsoftware]

Hey, PPoS - funny post, but you haven't failed anything. As you have surmised, Reaper comes with nothing in the way of drums. It does come with a powerful, and complex, sampler (RS5k), and some generous users have come up with some amazing kits to use with it. Pretty difficult for a new user, though to be fair all decent samplers are somewhat complex.



A different forum and a different forum user steered me to a single video tutorial which opened some locks for me. But I have yet to make a single drum track of more than 1 hit. I may never get to it - time invested so far and time required in future just doesn't seem worth it now.

I may write a separate post describing my journey to drum Enlightenment Level I.
But it starts with
1) There are no drums in Reaper.
2) Brace yourself- It's gonna be like learning to play TWO instruments - first is a MIDI thingy, second is a sampler software module. How they go together exactly is at Enlightment Level II (so I don't know yet - I'm operating off hunches and bad guesses right now)
3) People who are doing drums in Reaper built their setup from pieces they got from places. Those places vary widely in time, web location, complexity and cost. On forums they find it more fun to talk about the differences between the various pieces ("what's the best.....") than how the parts work together.
4) The places they put those pieces in their copies of Reaper vary as widely as the individuals involved. After the download you may have to start a search from C:\
5) etc


I started out to play guitar and sing some songs and record them for my 80 year old Mom (thus I'm a little bit younger than that). Having some drum sounds seemed like a nice idea. Now it doesn't seem worth the trouble. Anyway, she knows I don't play drums.

[tgraph]

to PigPenoS: I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but all of this recording and mixing seems beyond your abilities. It might make more sense to make use a of a friend who is more handy with it all. Let someone else record you playing and the 2 of you walk thru the mixing and compiling your cd... It's not for everyone. I hope this isn't taken as judgmental in any way. This whole music/computer thing just isn't suited to everyone. As you can see in the forums, people with years of experience still struggle with issues every day... People that are good at it, and enjoy the struggle possibly. You don't seem to be having any fun with this.

[PigPenofsoftware]

to PigPenoS: I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, but all of this recording and mixing seems beyond your abilities. It might make more sense to make use a of a friend who is more handy with it all. Let someone else record you playing and the 2 of you walk thru the mixing and compiling your cd... It's not for everyone. I hope this isn't taken as judgmental in any way. This whole music/computer thing just isn't suited to everyone. As you can see in the forums, people with years of experience still struggle with issues every day... People that are good at it, and enjoy the struggle possibly. You don't seem to be having any fun with this.

No offense taken. I got my $60 worth using it as a post-tracking mixer. I'm not using it to record (I use a mixer to a DR-40 then transfer files).
If I stay in that operating envelope it's enjoyable and I'm expanding the boundaries without much stress.

It's the stuff that others are doing that don't have adequate documentation for my level of understanding that frustrates me. I do not enjoy struggling with computers because unlike the stuff I know well - engines, electricity, nuclear reactors - computers don't smoke, leak, spray, whine, whirr, screech or glow red hot to tell you what's wrong.

My wife keeps our home computers alive. She says she "lives to reboot."
I'm waiting for her to look the other way so I can put a .45cal hole in it....

Oh - and I have very few friends. Workplace is highly isolated and I drive a long way to go to/from so little time. No music/recording friends at all. ( not complaining -it's just the situation until something changes)

[PigPenofsoftware]

I actually now have some drum sounds and some MIDI tracks to run them and a clue about how it works.

It was Bill Gates' Evil Elves obstructing me the most.

Here are 3 roadblocks I cleared with my forehead-

(1)User Manual describes directory structures for XP. We're on Win 7. MS changed that stuff around so don't bother looking there. The ultimate name of the file or directory is what you want but you won't find it until you do #2.

(2) Win 7 default is to hide files. Reaper installs with mostly hidden files - at least for the important stuff you have to work with to do sampling. Searching for them by name won't find them. Set the directories to SHOW HIDDEN FILES.

(3) Win 7 default is to suppress file type extensions so that a file like "Tom.wav" shows as "Tom" while "Tom.wav.repeaks" shows as "Tom.wav" leading to copying the wrong files as samples. Set the directories to SHOW FILE EXTENSIONS.

As a former (expert unix) co-worker of mine would stand up and exclaim while trying to get MS stuff to run - "DAMN YOU BILL GATES!"

(I know, everyone born after 1970 knows all this already.)

[whiteaxxxe]

?????

what has all that to do with directory stuff and where MS puts it? dont you decide where things go and where the directory is you made because you wanted your stuff to go there?

you cant compare to unix, both worlds have nothing to do with one another. Win anynumber is a GUI for an OS. what is the problem to use a graphic interface?

and well, I was born way before 1970 and I know that stuff. like nearly 30 years ago, because Ataris worked exactly that way. afaik Amigas too. so there is nothing new to the way Windows behave.

and yes, Bill Gates way at times the most wanted-to-be-killed man alive (before GWB and OBL came up ... :( ) ... but that doesnt have to do anything with the directory structure. its the same with '95, '98, '98SE, XP, Vista, 7, 8, 8.1, 10 ... because YOU decide. if you let Windows decide for you, you are screwed. I give you you that ...

but who would come to such an idea ...

[ivansc]

whiteaxx: A computer luddite, as this poor chap has already confessed to being.

He has a great deal of sympathy from me - I spent a considerable amount of time teaching a government-run course for older people who were not computer savvy to get them up and running with the basics. At the time it ran through the public library system, using their Windows 2000 based wide area network system. How I ever managed to teach as many as I did to actually USE the net, Word for Windows, etc., I will never know.

[whiteaxxxe]

whiteaxx: A computer luddite, as this poor chap has already confessed to being.

He has a great deal of sympathy from me - I spent a considerable amount of time teaching a government-run course for older people who were not computer savvy to get them up and running with the basics. At the time it ran through the public library system, using their Windows 2000 based wide area network system. How I ever managed to teach as many as I did to actually USE the net, Word for Windows, etc., I will never know.

well, I did these kinda things too. office for newbies. but thats not the point, I think of being a newbie. everybody was at one point. (no, you dont need to do a carriage return at the end of the line, that is a computer, he knows how to break a line ... oh, thats all upper case, you hit this key by accident ... no, to type on on another page there doesnt have to be enough paper in the printer ...) but I think its not good, to let false statements being given as help let stand as advice.

that doesnt help nobody.

its important to tell someone that you have to "tweak" Windows, as for showing file-types and showing hidden directories. but it is false that Reaper uses hidden directories, at least if you run a portable install, what I would recommend in all cases. that way you dont end up having no knowledge of where what was going. then set up a directory on D:\ or E:\ or somewhere - but NOT on C:\ - and call it VSTplugins or something and then install every plugin into this folder. nearly every installer let you do this, point to a directory of your choice. so every time you have the chance to choose a directory for plugins: choose and dont let the system choose it. the plugins with only a .dll you can put into it manually.

after that point Reaper to that directory as the folder where all the plugins are and let Reaper do a rescan.

all plugins should be found.

I mean ... its tough for any software developer, to deal in a manual with basics of Windows or any other OS. its not their job. to run a software and to learn a software the basic knowledge and usage of a computer should be there in the first place.

its like running a microwave oven: if you dont know how to plug that thing in you shouldnt start with an advanced cooking course.

once a new student came to me, waved me a startocaster in the face and said: "that one is new. its my first guitar. next week there is party, I have told some friends that I would show up there with my guitar. can you please show me some tricks in guitarplaying so that I dont make a fool out of me at that party?"

so from his standpoint he was correct in that he assumed: nearly everybody on this planet plays guitar, how hard can it be?, this guy - me - can show me something and all is good. if you dont know anything - whats not a fault - you dont know how much to learn. thats too not a fault, how could you know? but to give out a little (and not correct) knowledge as advice ... I dont know. thats not the right approach I guess.

anyway ... we will get everybody up and running a million dollar audio-business. :D at least Reaper up and running on a Windows PC. :D

[viscofisy]

@PigPen - I didn't read the whole thread - if any or all of the following is extraneous, the just ignore.

........ a lot of the confusion over drum software (and VSTis in general) stems from the distinction between MIDI and Audio.

If you really haven't managed a single bar of drums, then I don't mind talking you through it till you at least get the flow.

And further - a lot of the confusion over MIDI stems from the fact that it was originally conceived for hardware.


MIDI is a message sending protocol - used for triggering Audio.

As far as sampled Drum software goes, it can be broken down into 2 parts :

1)A software "Player" and
2)A sample Library (ie folders where recordings of real drum hits are stored).

You send only a signal via MIDI >>>>>it goes through Reaper to the Player>>>>>the Player calls up the wav sample>>>>Reaper plays the wav sample.


What you have left behind on your Reaper MIDI Drum Track (if you recorded anything or loaded a pre-made loop) are the signals which will re-trigger those samples when played.
________________________________

The MIDI Editor can be opened by double clicking on your MIDI Drum Track in Reaper.

That opens a "Piano Roll" showing a piano keyboard.
Some (not all) of the Piano Keys represent different Drum Hits.

If you have a Drum VSTi (Player) loaded on the Reaper Track, you can click the "track area" to the right of the Piano Keys in the MIDI Editor, and if there's a Drum Hit linked to that Piano Key then you'll hear it play.

If you click and drag you can "write" a note - it will be saved on the Reaper Track (both in the MIDI EDITOR and the actual Reaper Track with which it is associated.

If you want you can load a pre-recorded MIDI Drum Loop which is just a pre-written series of these MIDI note "signals".

Otherwise you can "play" instead of write the notes (using a MIDI USB keyboard or other MIDI USB controller).

Whether you load a pre-made MIDI loop, draw it in by hand in the MIDI Editor, or record it in real time, the information in the MIDI Editor is the same type of information........ie signals or messages which report back to the Drum VSTi (Player).

Probably the best free Drum VSTi (Player and Samples) for ease of use is the MPowerDrummer2 (to begin with).
_______________________

You'll notice if you download any sampled Drum VSTi that it has, as I said, two components :
Player (the .dll file or VSTi itself)
and Samples.

These are often stored separately at different locations on your hard drive......and you'll ususally be asked to choose these locations (or go with the standard setup) when installiing
_______________________

What Reaper wants to know is where the Player (ie VSTi.....the .dll file) is located.
You tell Reaper this in the OPTIONS>>Preferences >>>VST page.

[PigPenofsoftware]

its important to tell someone that you have to "tweak" Windows, as for showing file-types and showing hidden directories. but it is false that Reaper uses hidden directories, at least if you run a portable install,

You have to tweak Windows in ways that will support dealing with Reaper.
That's my point. That part goes unstated. Pre-requisites for success include stating the initial conditions. Assumptions cause trouble.

Reaper places files in hidden directories. The directories weren't created by Reaper so it's not Reapers defect exactly, it's the assumption that anybody can figure it out because everyone who wants to use Reaper is a software jock first and a Reaper user second. (this discussion very, very strongly supports this point of view doesn't it?)

I didn't see anything about recommending doing a portable install when I was installing Reaper. Since I don't have a laptop, why would I consider doing your recommended portable install? Why is the portable install better? Because you corral everything you need in a place you know to look for it? NOW you tell me!

You've forgotten what you had to learn to get to where you are.

I'm not your grandma taking a computer class in the nursing home. I've been using MS Office products for probably 25 years now. The MS crap pushed out the vi text editors and unix mail we were using before (Pascal text editor before that). But I was focused on soldering the boxes together - not writing software.
My current employer has all MS Office but has the system locked down so directory structure for programs is off limits to doing anything with it.

I'm an MS Office power user (I do the TPS report) - BUT NOT A PROGRAMMER! Install gets the default treatment from me because things break if I go off script.


Viscosify- yes, I comprehend the concept of MIDI. Thanks for the explanation. It's not the concepts or block diagrams that are my problem. It's the details of just exactly what do you call it and where do you find the pieces necessary. It's not horseshoes and handgrenades for me.

[viscofisy]

It's not the concepts or block diagrams that are my problem. It's the details of just exactly what do you call it and where do you find the pieces necessary. It's not horseshoes and handgrenades for me.

If you can't find files/folders or don't see file extensions that's a completely separate Windows user-issue.

Mostly that shouldn't be neccessary.

For drums or any sample-based VSTi you mostly only need to :

1)Download the VSTi exe

2)Allow it to place the samples where it suggests (or direct it to a folder you previously created)

3)Tell it to place the VSTi .dll in whatever Folder you created for your VSTis and/or VSTs (you can have folders for each if you like)

4)Make sure Reaper is pointed to this 3) folder in :
OPTIONS>>Preferences>> VST

That's really all there is to it.


If you do the above correctly, you shouldn't have any further trouble.

If you do ....for some reason.....have to go searching for your samples Folder......and can't find it......then that's neither a Reaper problem nor a problem of the VSTi maker........it's a Windows user problem.


You should never have to go searching for the VSTi itself.
It's up to you upon installing to tell the installer to put the VSTi in your custom made folder (or to take a note of wherever you permit it to install).

[PigPenofsoftware]

If you can't find files/folders or don't see file extensions that's a completely separate Windows user-issue.



Yes. That's what I said. (Damn You Bill Gates- DYBG)

ReaDrums came with Home Recording. It put everything in the book materials location. Worked for the example but not as an actual future-use installation. Thus I was trying to move things to more sensible, findable, rememberable locations.

Having that that set of drums is enough for now so I'm not downloading anything more.

[ashcat_lt]

Reaper places files in hidden directories. The directories weren't created by Reaper so it's not Reapers defect exactly, it's the assumption that anybody can figure it out because everyone who wants to use Reaper is a software jock first and a Reaper user second. (this discussion very, very strongly supports this point of view doesn't it?)

I didn't see anything about recommending doing a portable install when I was installing Reaper. Since I don't have a laptop, why would I consider doing your recommended portable install? Why is the portable install better? Because you corral everything you need in a place you know to look for it? NOW you tell me!

Frankly, I agree with this. There is no good reason that anything having to do with Reaper itself should be anywhere other than C:\ProgramFiles\Reaper by default. If you can think of one, please holler, cause... We know the "Portable Install" keeps everything in one place nice and easy and there is no change in functionality. Why aren't all installs "Portable"? ...

[karbomusic]

I didn't see anything about recommending doing a portable install when I was installing Reaper. Since I don't have a laptop, why would I consider doing your recommended portable install? Why is the portable install better? Because you corral everything you need in a place you know to look for it? NOW you tell me!

Any app would have the same advantages/disadvantages between a normal and portable install. There are also disadvantages to a portable install such as you have to manually associate .RPP with reaper.exe and ReWire and ReaRoute's ASIO driver aren't available in the portable install.

There is no need to worry about hidden directories whether a regular or portable install, just use export/import configuration which gets every one of them for you. You are simply hearing everyone's favorite, bestest, only way to go advice all at once. ;) At some point you just sort of need to find your way and what works for you, which you are doing as part of this thread. It's not possible to not remain a newb and never have to back up and change direction and/or learn something new each day. Bummers, mistakes and "wish I had known" are part of the process.

Why aren't all installs "Portable"? ...

Historic convention and dependencies. Anything that requires a registry entry is no longer a portable install whether that be a file association, COM type component or anything else that needs any type of registration beyond the folder it is installed in. Would be nice if more of them offered it and it is better now than in the past at least.

[viscofisy]

Bummers, mistakes and "wish I had known" are part of the process.
That should be written above every school door.....and solemnly repeated in every marriage oath.

[whiteaxxxe]

You have to tweak Windows in ways that will support dealing with Reaper.
That's my point. That part goes unstated. Pre-requisites for success include stating the initial conditions. Assumptions cause trouble.

...

no, thats wrong. you dont have to "tweak" Windows because of Reaper. you have to do it at all for getting your work - all work - done in any Windows application. or you have to live with the limitations.

that has nothing to do with Reaper. Windows its an OS with a GUI. if you use a Windows driven computer you have to learn the Windows basics, in any case. for office apps, for graphic apps, even for audio apps.

so stop blaming Reaper for anything. and you shouldnt make assumptions, you should know your stuff. and if you dont, you should learn it.

you can start a math app and blame the app for you not knowing what fractions are. simple - in principle.

and I dont get what it is about the whining ... get a MAC and see where you get with that. without knowledge of the OS and trying to run things out of the box.

if you dont know how an oven operates you cant blame the food.

[ashcat_lt]

Sure, hidden extensions is a Windows thing, and pretty basic, and it was actually affecting a sampler and not Reaper itself. Why, though, does Reaper hide so much important crap in the Application Data folder - wherever your version of Windows decides that might be? Seems that kind of thing must be completely under the control of the Reaper installer itself, no? I didn't see any options in the install process to change that either. I'm not a Luddite, and it's not really a huge deal, but it is kind of annoying, especially since the place to look for my JS plugs is completely different between my XP machines and my 7 machine, and yes, those folders are hidden by default.

So, fine, not actually "portable" since some things maybe need to be registered, but why is it spread all over the drive?

[karbomusic]

Why, though, does Reaper hide so much important crap in the Application Data folder - wherever your version of Windows decides that might be?

Program Files is a protected folder and appdata is where any files that will be written to after the install need to and should go because they are sandboxed properly there unlike program files which is system wide. That is the correct way to do it albeit seemingly hidden. Windows actually in some cases silently redirects to this location whether Reaper knows it or not, same for the registry depending on the key being written to. Reaper didn't used to do it this way and it caused lots of issues such as having to run Reaper with admin rights in some cases which should never be required. You may occasionally see issues where some VST(i) requires Reaper running as admin, that's a red flag to bad coding. ;)

Again though, Export Configuration solves all of this and is why Justin added that feature. There is typically no reason to go to those directories unless something is broken and even then there is a menu option in Reaper that takes you straight to them which also means no guesswork required.

[PigPenofsoftware]

Bummers, mistakes and "wish I had known" are part of the process.



Software is this way I suppose.
I didn't learn to fly or operate nuclear reactors that way.

DELETE-This is the first app I've installed in this century.-END DELET EDIT CORRECTION - 2 small apps went fine. So this statement is incorrect.

"knowing my stuff" around installing windows things is not part of my job description nor any hobby activity up until this experience.

Another point for the theory that you need to be a software jock to deal with it.

[karbomusic]

Another point for the theory that you need to be a software jock to deal with it.

It's sort of like driving a car, all you want is to get from home to work and back which eventually means you know more about cars than you originally wanted. I don't think you need to be a car expert but it's helpful to know where the air filter is and how to change a tire, find and replace a blown fuse and so on. Computers are such a part of life these days, knowing one's way around isn't much different than reading and writing. Of course venting frustrations along the way is a perfectly normal part of that. :)

[PigPenofsoftware]

Current cars are far more reliable than current PCs. (I've been working on my cars for decades down to changing clutches and doing valve jobs.)

It appears to me that PCs are in the stage where cars were in the early 1930s.
Things were starting to converge on standards but they were still competing and sometimes incompatible. Stuff didn't always work well or for long and you had to be ready to fix it by the roadside at any time. Controls are everywhere because usability testing of operators is decades away.

Of course with software, your PC may be hijacked and all your data destroyed by bandits so - maybe it's worse than the 1930s.

My wife keeps the home PCs running. She has infinite time (disabled) to reboot and rebuild operating systems from scratch and add 350 security patches in groups of 10 and then do it over again because the order of the patches matters...... can take 2 weeks sometimes.

I can do $60 worth with Reaper. But I got more and better instructions with the automotive code reader I bought to learn what the yellow dashboard light means.

Maybe some background would help- I score the reliability of a DoD system of systems that contains 8 million lines of code running on COTS hardware. I read about every action everyone takes to keep the whole thing running - including software resets, firmware updates, fan replacements and so forth. I also see the backlog of software defects as it grows with time the software is in use. But I'm not a software jock.

[karbomusic]

Current cars are far more reliable than current PCs. (I've been working on my cars for decades down to changing clutches and doing valve jobs.)

It appears to me that PCs are in the stage where cars were in the early 1930s.

See I don't see it that way. I spend pretty much zero time mucking with my 10 or so PCs + 20 virtual PCs and servers. I never have to do any of the stuff you just described but I know my way around the proverbial clutches and know what not to do and most of all what not to tweak which frees me up from all that troubleshooting to begin with. The worst machines I've ever come in contact with is those that get tweaked and manhandled too much. :)

In the early days, yea, needed special attention, as of late, one is typically shooting themselves in the foot trying to tweak and teach it a lesson.

[whiteaxxxe]

...
My wife keeps the home PCs running. She has infinite time (disabled) to reboot and rebuild operating systems from scratch and add 350 security patches in groups of 10 and then do it over again because the order of the patches matters...... can take 2 weeks sometimes.

...

see, thats where you/your wife are doing it wrong, because you hadnt cared about that before starting useless activities.

if you had your knowledge together before you go through that trial and error thing, you would spare yourself 2 weeks of work.

you install Windows / or 8 or 8.1, doesnt really matter). after that you tell Windows to look for new updates and install them. works out of the box, is reliable and the correct order of the patches and all is done within 2 hours.

see where information can get you. and this will give you another view upon the things. things look different if you know things. so in your position you are not really able to judge these things.

[PigPenofsoftware]

see, thats where you/your wife are doing it wrong, because you hadnt cared about that before starting useless activities.



Thank you for your opinion. You'll understand if I disregard it?

EDIT- It took her 2 weeks to rebuild the 80 year old sewing lady's computer after that lady clicked on ransomware. The computer was several years old so wiping the disc and starting over took time. Again, not as easy as you think because the user cases aren't what you think.

[PigPenofsoftware]

Might as well just end the thread with what I would say to the next person-

Reaper is an amazing, feature-rich product with a steep learning curve.
It deserves to be well-liked for its potential.

What you can get out of it using add-ons is proportional to your software skills.

I'm a software dumbass. I can only get $60 worth.
Since I'll probably stay a software dumbass (I do other things than tinkering with software) - that's where I'll stay - $60 worth.

Can a Moderator lock the thread so things stay polite?

[karbomusic]

Can a Moderator lock the thread so things stay polite?

I wouldn't worry about it. People just trying to help; some better at it than others at doing so. Nevertheless, there is good info in the thread and stuff peeps need to know and someone might have some additional worthwhile questions that someone can give worthwhile answers to.

Just remember you don't have to tweak for Reaper in the vast majority of cases, directories are accessible in reaper and any config/settings in those directories can be exported and imported from within reaper without needing to know where they are. Run with that and take care. :)

[whiteaxxxe]

Thank you for your opinion. You'll understand if I disregard it?

EDIT- It took her 2 weeks to rebuild the 80 year old sewing lady's computer after that lady clicked on ransomware. The computer was several years old so wiping the disc and starting over took time. Again, not as easy as you think because the user cases aren't what you think.

to set up a Windows machine within 3-4 hours is easy. if you need longer you dont know what you are doing and/or do it wrong. your posting is prove that I am right. I install Windows on a nearly regular basis since Win 95. that wasnt fun. but nowadays the 3-4 hours including all Win updates is normal.

point is: you dont know your tools (Windows & Reaper) as well as that you could judge them. so back down a bit, please.

[PigPenofsoftware]

point is: you dont know your tools (Windows & Reaper) as well as that you could judge them. so back down a bit, please.

How about we just put each other in the ignore list?

[whiteaxxxe]

if that helps you ...