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johnlewisgrant
04-21-2015, 08:03 AM
Occasionally midi files created or edited in Sonar, are missing notes when opened in Reaper. And vice versa.

Any cause for this?

Mink99
04-21-2015, 08:19 AM
Daws optimise midi patterns, this might result in missing notes, which are musically in fact not missing.

whiteaxxxe
04-21-2015, 08:26 AM
what is "optimizing" a MIDI-file? a MIDI-file is a bunch of notes assigned to a certain MIDI-channel and a certain point on the timeline and probably some controllers. its written in HEX-format as one stream of HEX-data for 1 channel, followed by the stream of data for the next used channel.

there is nothing optimised. if a DAW would do such a thing that DAW would be in no time food for the trashcan.

to the OP: can you describe if there is a pattern to it or is it random? or what happens exactly? or maybe is something going on in your DAWs that add something randomly to a MIDI-file? what VSTis are you using?

johnlewisgrant
04-21-2015, 09:25 AM
what is "optimizing" a MIDI-file? a MIDI-file is a bunch of notes assigned to a certain MIDI-channel and a certain point on the timeline and probably some controllers. its written in HEX-format as one stream of HEX-data for 1 channel, followed by the stream of data for the next used channel.

there is nothing optimised. if a DAW would do such a thing that DAW would be in no time food for the trashcan.

to the OP: can you describe if there is a pattern to it or is it random? or what happens exactly? or maybe is something going on in your DAWs that add something randomly to a MIDI-file? what VSTis are you using?

Simple one track piano data. Nothing but the simplest note info... No other cc events like pedal. It does seem as if the notes that have been "disappeared" are of shorter duration. I can work through this, myself, I guess. I just thought there might be something really obvious.

ELP
04-21-2015, 11:01 AM
"what is "optimizing" a MIDI-file?
there is nothing optimised. if a DAW would do such a thing that DAW would be in no time food for the trashcan.
"

─hmmm SRY that┤s not really true.
You can optimised MIDI and also a MIDI File with
the use of Running Status Method.

One very short and simple example.
only 16 * #CC Pan on CH1 and nothing else in between on the same Channel and Port

REAPER did/send and save these #CCs to an MIDI File with 0x:
B00A5F8740B00A5E8740B00A588740B00A518740B00A4C8740 B00A458740B00A3E8740B00A348740B00A278740B00A208740 B00A1C8740B00A1A8740B00A198740B00A198740B00A1D8740 B00A2B00FF2F00

164 Byte That is very ineffective and slower if you use MIDI Hardware with 31k Baud

You can also save/send the same data as:
B00A5F83600A5E83600A5883600A5183600A4C83600A458360 0A3E83600A3483600A2783600A2083600A1C83600A1A83600A 1983600A1983600A1D83600A2B00FF2F00

134 Byte
Only 16 Pan Events 30 Byte shorter = 9600 Ás=9.6 ms faster. Alone for 16 Events and 9.6ms is already a big difference in terms of timing for Hardware MIDI devices.
This is for example what the old Logic for PC did/send and also save to an MIDI File.
As i said the same 16 Pan Events ;)
It use Running status for optimising and it┤s absolute MIDI conform. I dont know any old & new MIDI devices which not understand the RS. But REAPER send and save for every channel messages always the status byte.
That┤s ineffectiv & for a better outboard timing counterproductive.

whiteaxxxe
04-21-2015, 02:26 PM
yeah, well, running status and such fancy things ... :D I know you are deep into the hell of rpn/nrpn-diving ... please, no hairsplitting. :D

I thought of using a MIDI-file as a "normal" MIDI-file and not as something related to rocket surgery and/or brain science. :D man ...

to the OP: so only short notes disappear? I dont know for sure, but is there a setting that notes beneath a certain length are not played? I am not sure, last time I saw such a thing was in Cubase Atari ...

back to ELP: if you are such a MIDI-nerd, I recommend to you STEEM for Windows (STE EMulator = Atari STE) and running Cubase 2.0 (free) or Cubase 3.0 (if can get your hands onto that), both for Atari, on it. that is MIDI-heaven at its best. nothing beats that, especially not, if you want to put your fingers on the deep down MIDI-implementation of outboard midified synths. nothing beats that.

I owuld like to see Cockos build that Cubase Atari MIDI-engine into Reaper. :D that would be the end of all MIDI-related debates on this forum here.

Mink99
04-21-2015, 02:31 PM
@whiteaxxe : please be aware that not everything that is beyond your knowledge is rocket science or brain surgery or hairsplitting.

@johnlewisgrant could you provide one before & after midi file ?

ELP
04-21-2015, 03:55 PM
RS is not
A: fancy
RS is
B: standard
and can be very, very important for an good
C: timing
particularly if you use other, non channel messages like M-clock,MTC, ec.pp.
at the same time & pys. ports
And really not
D: hairsplitting.
Simply test.

I can give you an tool for optimising MIDI Files that were saved with REAPER. ;) :D

@white I don┤t need an emu, I have an first hand original that runs as hell. ;)

By the way Sonar/Cakewalk... Sonar forget the first event of an MIDI File if there is only #CC without an note on event inside. I mean also for single tracks that contains only #CC. This is/was an very old bug I mean since 1993 or so :D
I dont know if this bug is now(with the current version) removed.

###
"
Mink99:
@johnlewisgrant could you provide one before & after midi file ?
"
Yes that would be good if it┤s possible