mac vs. win reaper : no comparison [Archive]

earlabs

01-16-2008, 04:40 AM

I finally got the chance to see the mac version of Reaper on the macbook of one of my friends (1.5 ghz, 750mb ram osx10.4). I was actually quite surprised. I have been recommending Reaper to him because I want to do an exchange project. There are quite a few things missing in the mac version, compared to the win. Like the mixer, like the docker, like the extra space in the mixer to manage sends, and fx's.
Now I understand that he is not as enthousiastic as I have been ever since I started using Reaper (July 2007). I read another thread where someone recommended using the win version with crossover for mac (from codeweaver). Would that be a better suggestion for my friend?

labyrinth

01-16-2008, 06:11 AM

with a friend of mine. He too is a 'Die Hard Mac Man.' When we originally started he had his Mac Boot Camped and was running Vegas, my original DAW (I know it's not really a DAW, but it's where I started after Cool Edit went Adobe). Back to what I am replying about- Don't worry about the missing features in the Mac vs. I hear Justin is working tirelessly to get it to where the Win vs. is at. Thus why the updates are not as frequent as they used to be. I'm just glad Justin and Christoph have such a passion for music and programming...it's a blessing!!!

mahasandi

01-16-2008, 06:14 AM

that codeweaver thing really blows my mind
i havnt used it but it "sounds" neat.

I think I've enjoyed the mac version being released in stages
so I could learn slowly (as I tend to ) different pieces
and why functions are important in this program.

If I was recommending a friend who needs
all the features right away,
the win version is complete,
yet iam able to track and mix just fine.

schwa

01-16-2008, 06:15 AM

The OSX Reaper is not even a beta yet, it's still just a "preview" build.

earlabs

01-16-2008, 09:28 AM

Don't worry about the missing features in the Mac vs. I hear Justin is working tirelessly to get it to where the Win vs. is at. Thus why the updates are not as frequent as they used to be. I'm just glad Justin and Christoph have such a passion for music and programming...it's a blessing!!!

I, personally, have huge confidence in J&C. But I can imagine that the MAC-camp still has its reservations. That is also due to the fact that (afaik) a 1.0 version was forecast during the final quarter of 2007, a date that was not met. People (well, most of them) hate to see their expectations frustrated.

Anyway, I'll keep my friend entertained with other creative duties while J&C code their fingers numb.

One other thing: should a configuration such I gave in my initial message (1.5 ghz, 750mb ram, osx10.4 additional info: G4) be able to play the demo song? Because that macbook couldn't.

earlabs

01-16-2008, 09:29 AM

The OSX Reaper is not even a beta yet, it's still just a "preview" build.

ah, that's right...

vocalnick

01-16-2008, 10:04 PM

Crossover Mac worked pretty well with Reaper for me... with a single (but HUGE) caveat - MIDI. In short, enabling a MIDI input to reaper caused a crash.

Crossover have only just added "experimental" MIDI support in the latest version, and their changelog actually admits it may not work. In my case, it was an accurate warning.

So yeah, I'm now running Logic Express & PTLE on the Macbook, and Reaper on my PC at home. They're actually all good for different things, and I'm getting some good work done moving files between the three.

As schwa has stated, ReaperOSX is nowhere near ready for primetime yet, and makes no such claims. One glance at the differing version numbers between the PC & OSX versions should tell you that! :)

Kainer

04-11-2008, 04:58 AM

i have tried crossover the last days and have to say: i´m amused. it is ok till now.

Ben Srokosz

04-13-2008, 10:13 AM

I'm so pumped about reaper for MAC. I am using it with my Roland Vs-1880 as a controller and so far the tc works great.
Just don't have the keyboard control functions yet so i can use my faders. But I'll wait patiently as it unfolds.

Great software!

Jeronimo

04-14-2008, 01:51 PM

mixer is avaliable now...

kaddenheart

04-16-2008, 03:07 PM

can't wait for the full mac.

i'm trying to wrap my head around the "preview" version already, i really don't wanna boot-camp it just to run hte PC version, so i guess i'll have to wait for now.

i just wonder,..if the beta versions won't evne be available for quite a while if i should do the crossover thing now, but if the wait isn't too long i'l stick it out.

Ben Srokosz

04-19-2008, 08:18 AM

Just wanted to say that my band had our entire studio wired and ready for sonar, I brought over my reaper on my thumbdrive and plugged it in. All it took was one quick look and they totally scrapped sonar and are now faithfully using reaper.

As soon as the MAC version is good to go we'll be ditching the PC as well.

Cheers

adouglas

04-22-2008, 04:29 AM

Depending on what your needs are, IMHO you may be able to jump on the Reaper Mac wagon with confidence.

I am fully prepared to Boot Camp it if need be, but I'd rather keep it in the Mac realm if I can.

Last night I recorded ten tracks of live practice, nearly three hours, with no problems whatsoever. I used my Tascam FW-1082. While control surface functionality isn't there yet (that would be nice), as an interface it worked just fine. Even the S/PDIF inputs.

I recorded it directly into an external Firewire drive.

I'm still learning the basics of Reaper, but at the end of the day the point (for me) is to get my band recorded...not a bunch of MIDI or automation needed here.

I AM going to wait for an actual release before I buy a license, however. Think of it as my small way of encouraging the team to complete the project ;) .

Ben Srokosz

05-07-2008, 08:16 AM

I actually kind of feel bad about asking this, but one of the main reasons I use reaper is that I own a roland vs-1880 workstation, (hard disk digital multitrack) and reaper windows has a .dll that lets me rip my old songs i recorded on the roland into wavs. Its a dream come true because i can resurrect and remix old songs without having to dump "track by track" from my roland audio outputs to my comp

I run this through parallels, since there is no plugin for mac. The windows version consists of a batch file that reads the roland backup cd and saves the files as song.vr5 files, then the .dll converts the files to wav when in reaper.

Justin, you are obviously an accomplished programmer. Can you or one of your friends take the windows versions that I run in parallels and find a way to develop them for mac? This is a tool that I think all Roland owners would use, as we all generally use macs over pcs.

I know that is asking a lot....but I bet asking you to make a MAC version of reaper was no little task either.

Thanks!

(if you aren't familiar with the windows plugins I'm talking about, I could send them to you with a roland backup CD so that you have something to test with)

Ben

toggle

05-07-2008, 08:43 AM

This is a tool that I think all Roland owners would use, as we all generally use macs over pcs.

Really? It's surprising that all those mac/Roland users chose to come up with a Windows batch file to rip data from VS CDs, no? ;)

Are you looking for a mac-based utility to rip from the data CDs, or does the dll to read VS formats not work in the mac version of Reaper?

-Tom

Ben Srokosz

05-07-2008, 03:02 PM

Really? It's surprising that all those mac/Roland users chose to come up with a Windows batch file to rip data from VS CDs, no? ;)

Are you looking for a mac-based utility to rip from the data CDs, or does the dll to read VS formats not work in the mac version of Reaper?

-Tom

Hi Tom, the story I read on VS planet (forum for the roland VS series owners) was that a programmer who only had knowledge of the windows environment came up with the 'fix'. Most audio recording fanatics swear by MAC, when I was is music school it wasn't even an option to utter the term 'PC'.

Yes, I am looking for a mac based utility to rip the special data format of Roland, if you don't have a special tool for that your comp won't even recognize a roland disc as anything but blank. The dlls are not compatible with mac period let alone reaper. If anyone knows how to make it work, please let me know. Otherwise it looks like we need a programmer to look at the windows version, and figure out how to translate it to mac

Ben

Tallisman

05-07-2008, 03:57 PM

Most audio recording fanatics swear by MAC While I am diging the mac experience, most of the folks I know that own and operate pro studios are running PCs. Very few have macs.

when I was is music school it wasn't even an option to utter the term 'PC'. :D amazing how things have changed huh?!

:D

.t

kaddenheart

05-07-2008, 04:38 PM

While I am diging the mac experience, most of the folks I know that own and operate pro studios are running PCs. Very few have macs.

:D amazing how things have changed huh?!

:D

.t

i'm only a mac guy,..
but honestly,..i've NEVER been in a pro studio, in orlando, miami, ohio, pennslvania, or jersey that had a pc in it....

at least any of the analog rooms, bug rooms, i've seena few kids with 002's and cracked waves that think they're pro running PC's tho

not that i have "much" against pc,...but still.

toggle

05-07-2008, 05:32 PM

Sorry; didn't mean to derail this thread with a mac vs. windows debate--wait! ...oh, nevermind. I thought Ben was saying that--as a rule--Roland users all use macs, which didn't seem to be the case on the VS-Planet board when I frequented it, years ago. Doesn't really matter.

Aaaannnyyway, since I don't own a mac currently, I was really more interested to know if and how the Roland VS xfer thing was happening in mac Reaper. I already use the batch file and dll on Windows Reaper. It sounds as if both parts of the process are no-go at the moment.

You might try looking-up/contacting a user named "Bear". If I'm not mistaken, he was one of the VS Planeteers responsible for making the Windows VS xfer work. He might have some insights into the code, even if he doesn't work with macs.

-Tom

Ben Srokosz

05-07-2008, 06:17 PM

Ok, sorry for somehow inadvertently starting a mac vs. PC war.....although I chose this forum because the title implied a windows vs. osx comparison of reaper.

And to compare the two.....windows has roland decoding capabilities, and mac does not. I'm not overly concerned about whether more people use macs or pcs.....I owned a pc for 15 years and a mac for 8 months.

I was just remarking that I've never seen a major recording studio or audio/video suite use PCs, and I've been to many. they all seem to answer the debate with a resounding mac response.

and the roland vs-1880 came pre-packaged with 90% mac software and only a couple pc drivers.

that tells me that there is a large segment of roland users out there that may be left out if there is no mac support for the vs-1880.

So I'll basically contact Bear and see what he has to say......I was hoping this thread might reach Justin and see if the idea holds any merit to create a mac fix for roland backups......not start a bunch of posts about which platform has a bigger $#%%

Cheers,
Ben

Ben Srokosz

05-07-2008, 06:27 PM

ooops....

by the way
thanks toggle for the tip

toggle

05-07-2008, 06:45 PM

and the roland vs-1880 came pre-packaged with 90% mac software and only a couple pc drivers.

No kidding? 1998 is a relatively foggy period for my memory, but I don't remember my 1680 coming with dick--in terms of computer support/software, that is. Either way, it will be a happy day when I can use those old files in any OS I choose, and I'm sure the community here is up to solving this.

-Tom

Cableaddict

05-08-2008, 06:47 PM

While I am diging the mac experience, most of the folks I know that own and operate pro studios are running PCs. Very few have macs.

Really? What's your definition of a "pro" studio ????

1: Protools TDM is still the absolute "must have" DAW for pro use, if for no other reason than compatibility with other pro studios. - And Protools runs much more bug-free on a Mac than on a PC. That's an absolute fact.

2: Logic is arguably the best DAW for serious composition (though many others are fine.) Logic don't run on no pc no mo.'

3: For composition, having tons of ram is a major help. The Mac isn't saddled with XP32's 3.2 Gigi ram limitation. Virtually everyone doing audio-for-video & audio-for-film (for a living) uses a Mac.

But it's a moot argument. If you're in a situtaion where you don't absolutely need a Mac to make a living, then there's no need to worry about it. They're both practically the same machine these days. Macs are still a little bit easier to deal with. The advantage with a pc is that you can do a lot more customizing and overclocking than with a Mac.

Pricewise, things have REALLY changed. It's now actually more expensive (slightly) to build a Skulltrail pc than to buy the equivalent 8-core Mac.
3 years ago, whod'a thunkit?

Tallisman

05-08-2008, 07:54 PM

I used to run the recording department at Long & Mcquade.
I serviced about 7 pro studios and 2 sound stages, 3 post production houses, and 2 radio stations one was the local CBC which had 2 large studios and a plethora of smaller workstations. Most of these had pre production/ writing rooms, studio a and b. I can remember 3 g5 macs in the whole lot. one of them was running an HD rig. CBC was running several HD rigs on pc. Nuendo and Cubase were all over the place... blah blah blah... What is the point of this anyway?

oh yeah hurray for the mac build. :D

.t

Ben Srokosz

05-08-2008, 08:15 PM

look what i started! you boys should kiss and make up.

or i have an idea,
lets hold hands and skip to every recording studio in the world and keep score.

or.......I could just say that I probably have a bias because my teachers at school all swore by mac, and the 17 or so studios we toured across ontario all had mac for recording and pc just for internet usage, email...etc

I never said it was an absolute.....I just never saw pcs in studios, and assumed that was because they were more for business applications and home users.

if anything, i think we can all agree that the best part about reaper is it is available on both platforms.....so it brings both sides together to talk, and the files can be opened the same in mac as they can in PC....so you can give your pal a windows reaper file and he can add to it on his mac

pretty damn cool if you ask me.

labyrinth

05-09-2008, 05:19 AM

Let me say this...

Now I do not agree with Apple only 'Allowing' their OS on Macs, but thats their choice I guess (it may also be better for support too). Not being able to build your machine is a drawback with going Mac, but look deeper...

The OS is superior, it's built on UNIX and the file system is so efficient that it does not need to be defragged at all. Sometimes with Windows (XP is what I use) I feel you have to nurse it- you know defrag often, clean up crap, and if you bring in the internet, well that's a whole other case; with Mac NONE of this!

Well, I'm just pointing those thing out, I'm not saying to go Mac or to bash Microsoft or anything. Just the facts, as I know them at least.

Cableaddict

05-20-2008, 01:35 AM

Tallisman,

Your credentials & info are strong, and I believe you, but I find it very HARD to believe.

I've worked in most of the major audio rooms in NYC and many in LA, and I see Macs / Protools HD everywhere. I'm also a Digi beta-tester, and know absolutely how much more buggy PT is on the PC.

-But I guess my experience could be Mac-weighted by chance. I'm actually kind of glad to read of your experience. Protools needs as much competition as possible (Digi pisses me off, as much as everyone else)

Anyway - Reaper on the Mac - woo-hoo! I can finally compose with low-latency. Friggin' Protools won't go below a 128-sample buffer, and the midi-implemation is barbaric.

Now I'm praying for a really good, comprehensive converter app that can seemlessly transfer an RPP file into a Protools file. (one can dream)

Jeronimo

05-20-2008, 07:14 AM

I have to say that, not beign able to BUILD my machine is actually a plus on the mac side. This way the OS and hardware are pretty much under control.
Here in Brazil, I've never been on a major studio that had a DAW running under windows.
But smaller studios have windows machines all over the place.

sdfalk

05-20-2008, 10:14 PM

While I am diging the mac experience, most of the folks I know that own and operate pro studios are running PCs. Very few have macs.

:D amazing how things have changed huh?!

:D

.t

Hmmm

I'm in school out in Vancouver and not one classroom has a PC..for Audio.
Every post house/studio in Vancouver I've visited has nothing but Macs.

Justin

05-20-2008, 11:35 PM

I think it's safe to say that a lot of people use macs, a lot use PCs.. and that it depends on where you go/what crowds you are in.. I've seen both as well... and can make lots of generalizing comments about the people that use each that will piss off people of all kinds, ha ha.

-Justin

labyrinth

05-21-2008, 05:49 AM

I agree Justin, different strokes for different folks.

Let me say this...THANK YOU SO MUCH for getting the mac port to it's almost full fruition. A friend of mine and I are constantly sending things back and forth and with other DAWs it's always been a pain getting things to work CORRECTLY since he's on a Mac and I'm on a PC. REAPER works flawlessly. You and the gang have done an excellent job.

Thanks Brother!

Tallisman

05-21-2008, 11:00 AM

how many folks on this forum are using reaper in professional environments? Making money, either their living or a portion thereof from Reaper. Are folks suggesting that these cats are not Pro? How many on a mac so far? How may of them were running pro outfits on their PC prior to abandoning their yesterdaw? On the forum set-up for my yesterdaw there are hundreds (probably thousands) of cats running pro outfits built upon their PCs... Lat time I visited the DUC, I found similar things... lots of mac guys... lots of pc fellows... lots of both running pro outfits. Granted the thread counts on the DUC, specifically the troublshooting PTHD threads swing hugely in favour of Macs :) probably because there are more users (40533/3302).

IMHO the Mac = audio notion is a myth, equalled only by the notion that in order to run a pro facility you must needs use Pro Tools. Maybe 10 years ago Mac had an advantage... but today? The advantage does not merit the price difference IMHO. I am not saying that the number of PCs equals the number of macs (hmmm... maybe i did say that...) but there are a good many Pro facilities that built on the pc platforms. Enough, in fact, to warrant Hardware drivers for PC for just about every piece of hardware out there. Enough justify the PC-Only VST/VSTi industry. Enough to justify Ableton Live for PC, Cubase 4, sx1-3 for PC, Nuendo 1-4 for PC, Reason 1-4 for pc, Wavlab 1-6 (pc Only) and a whack of other applications...

Macs are great. the OS is pretty and fun to use. There are many things that bode well for these machines, as we all know. But if the pilot knows how to fly, then either blimp will work. A properly configured PC will be as solid platform for any DAW (dp and logic aside) as a mac will, at a fraction of the cost. Guess how much I spent on my MAC Pro quad core? I just configured the sam box at www.apple.ca, and What I have paid much less than $1500 for would have cost me $4068.00.

Now if I was to open a professional start-up... I guarantee I'd be PC based to start.

The good news is, that Reaper is getting very close to Beta on the Mac Platform, and then it's only a matter of time before we are up to speed.

greetings.

.t

polysoniq

05-21-2008, 11:16 PM

Hey Talis , which mobo did you use for your quad build?

simple-audio

05-22-2008, 05:36 AM

I've seen both as well... and can make lots of generalizing comments about the people that use each that will piss off people of all kinds, ha ha.

-Justin

Yes, but I think it's great that at the end of the day we can all agree that windows is superior to mac in every way.

/And apple people are poo-heads who spend too much on coffee.

kerryg

05-22-2008, 08:24 AM

If Cockos made a Reaper reel to reel in steampunk brass, I'd be all over it....

http://datamancer.net/steampunklaptop/steampunklaptop.htm

Tallisman

05-22-2008, 08:59 AM

beautiful.

I love it.

I want one.

:eek:

.t

Tallisman

05-22-2008, 09:05 AM

Hey Talis , which mobo did you use for your quad build?

Asus P5K Wifi Deluxe Black Pearl Edition. on board wireless is working perfectly in OSX. I have yet to get the on board sound to work, but the FireFace 800 works so well, that I haven't been motivated to do so. I will be travelling to non-bandwidth challenged locations next week where I expect to download a ton of crap to test... we'll see if I can get Logic 8 to work.

Incidentally, when I put this Quad together, creating a hack was not even a thought. But it is working so well, I haven't booted that box into its windows side for... well since I mac-ed it up!

greetings
.t

polysoniq

05-23-2008, 09:04 AM

Thanks for the info, I currently have 2 G4 Macs but reaper runs like a turtle doing a marathon on those machines.I'm on the verge of ordering components for my "hackintosh" build to run reaper and logic 8 as I am going back to writing/composition with logic on mac after years with cubendo.

I was hoping that the midi side of reaper would have gotten some more love by now as I find it flies in respect to audio recording,editing and mixing but in my opinion the midi side is still a bit cumbersome and needs refinement and I have used mostly every hardware and software sequencer over the last twenty years.

I would love to make reaper the hub in my studio and have been patiently waiting and watching for the midi features that will spur me to get a commercial license but until then I guess I will have go back to logic for midi but I would love to be able to work efficiently solely in reaper as I hate having to switch between apps when I'm in a creative flow.If all goes well with this build I think I'll stay in OSX for awhile.Please let me know how it goes with logic 8.
Take care.

polysoniq

05-23-2008, 09:16 AM

Thanks for the info, I currently have 2 G4 Macs but reaper runs like a turtle doing a marathon on those machines.I'm on the verge of ordering components for my "hackintosh" build to run reaper and logic 8 as I am going back to writing/composition with logic on mac
after years with cubendo.I was hoping that the midi side of reaper would have gotten some more love by now as I find it flies in respect to audio recording,editing and mixing but in my opinion the midi side is still a bit cumbersome and needs refinement and I have used mostly every hardware and software sequencer over the last twenty years.I would love to make reaper the hub in my studio
and have been patiently waiting and watching for the midi features that will spur me to get a commercial license but until then I guess I will have go back to logic for midi but I would love to be able to work efficiently solely in reaper as I hate having to switch between apps when I'm in a creative flow.If all goes well with this build I think I'll stay in OSX for awhile.Please let me know how it goes with logic 8.
Take care.

Jidis

05-24-2008, 12:12 PM

Tallisman-

Good to see another "hack" in here. :)

I set one up on my laptop about a week ago and it went surprisingly smooth. Only thing that didn't auto-detect was my IntelPro WiFi and there was an additional driver which got that working. I went with the older (10.4.9) version, as stuff I read seemed like it was better for the older, non-SSE3 CPUs. Lap is a Pentium M 1.5 with mostly Intel stuff onboard and 512Megs of RAM.

Ran pretty well until I killed it trying to uninstall stuff & trim some fat. I think some of the core utilities may need to be checked though (CPU/fan throttle, LCD adjustments, trackpad... mainly extra Toshiba junk in Windows). The Brad Sucks demo even almost ran. It started stuttering slightly after a couple extra tracks kicked in, but I'm not even sure what that machine does with it in XP (maybe the same). I also need to find my way around the built-in audio & buffer prefs. I'm accustomed to ASIO4All there.

I'll be reinstalling soon. Goal is to get an image of the working OSX partition, then I'll be repartitioning and shooting for a dual (or more) boot with XP.

BTW- Is it the same with regard to third party hardware (just needing an OSX driver)? I haven't tried either of my USB audio interfaces yet, but external storage stuff seemed to pick up just fine with the built-in OSX support.

Take Care,

George

earlabs

05-26-2008, 11:44 AM

Justin

05-26-2008, 02:08 PM

I started this thread about 5 months ago and look where we are now ;). Is anyone capable of making a sort of chart that indicates what is implemented in WIN and what in the MAC version?

Like:
.......................WIN.......MAC
mixer................yes.......yes
envelopes..........yes.......no
etcetera

At this point, the things missing, off the top of my head, are:

mp3 export if lame_enc.dll is installed
reaninjam (though this will be in the next build!)
CD burning and bin/cue generation
media explorer
video support

am I forgetting anything else? probably.. ;)

earlabs

05-27-2008, 10:09 AM

At this point, the things missing, off the top of my head, are:

mp3 export if lame_enc.dll is installed
reaninjam (though this will be in the next build!)
CD burning and bin/cue generation
media explorer
video support

am I forgetting anything else? probably.. ;)

Those are all nice-to-haves as far as I'm concerned. That's fantastic! You've really worked hard to get it level with the WIN version! But I've always known you to be a hard (strike that), diligent (strike that), ravenous workaholic so you probably feel great, don'tcha? :D

Marketing

06-03-2008, 04:08 AM

sorry to jump in but I just wanted to say...

Hi,

I'm mac user.

Peace,
Marketing

airon

06-03-2008, 08:23 AM

Woho. That is indeed good news. I know some lads who'll be pleased to know Reaper is so close to being in sync on the Mac.

Odin

06-03-2008, 09:19 AM

Maybe 10 years ago Mac had an advantage... but today?
Even more today. And i say that as a Windoze user.

Macs are great. the OS is pretty and fun to use. There are many things that bode well for these machines, as we all know.
The OS is pretty and fun to use?

I'm wondering, if you have ever seen a Linux/MacOS system in action?

Open a PDF document.
Open directories and menues.
Start applications.

Windows is fat, slow, unresponsive, a resource hog and extremely vulnerable.
MacOS is slim, fast, responsive, safe.

If you want to get a feel, how a decent OS would run on your computer, just download and install Ubuntu.

Tallisman

06-03-2008, 11:00 AM

Even more today. And i say that as a Windoze user.

The OS is pretty and fun to use?

I'm wondering, if you have ever seen a Linux/MacOS system in action?

Open a PDF document.
Open directories and menues.
Start applications.

Windows is fat, slow, unresponsive, a resource hog and extremely vulnerable.
MacOS is slim, fast, responsive, safe.

If you want to get a feel, how a decent OS would run on your computer, just download and install Ubuntu.

thanks for the advice.
I run Ubuntu Hardy on the kids and wife's computer.
I run Ubuntu Studio on my laptop dual booted with a very lean XP install.
I run Leopard 10.5.2 dual boot with a similarly lean XP installation on my main box.

That said, if your windows machine is not sufficient to run a stable and responsive DAW, then who ever is in charge of configuring it, and maintaining it, is making mistakes, or plugging bunk parts into the slots.

greetings

.t

Dewdman42

06-03-2008, 11:38 AM

Another Hack and future full Mac user here. Just getting into Reaper and am getting more and more interested about what I am finding.

Odin

06-03-2008, 01:38 PM

That said, if your windows machine is not sufficient to run a stable and responsive DAW, then who ever is in charge of configuring it, and maintaining it, is making mistakes, or plugging bunk parts into the slots.

I think it's funny, that you write Macs would have become obsolete these days, while you claim, you have knowledge about Linux.
I have never met anyone with knowledge about a decent OS, like Linux, who said, that Macs were obsolete due to Windows. :D

You write you have Ubuntu installed and you don't know, no matter what you do, how much you tweak Windoze, it is never as responsive as Linux (same for MacOS)?
The reason is the OS itself. From the technical point of view, Windows is software garbage, it's patchwork and it has become even worse with Vista.

Your try to distract from the given examples, by claiming i were not capable to setup a solid Windoze system, can easily be seen as straw man.

airon

06-03-2008, 01:56 PM

Guys.

Both Mac and Windows is used for high-performance applications. Who cares about whether some small bits are slower or faster. It's all in the user experience for me, and I know how to set up and use Windows.

That said, I recommend MacOSX and Ubuntu Linux for any user with little experience in building and maintaining a self-built computer.

Any performance comparisons should focus on Reaper in this thread, not the OS in general or any of the general user population. If you'd like to discuss such topics, do it elsewhere, but not in the Mac section of this forum, where pre-alpha builds of Reaper are the topic of discussion at this time.

It may be a good idea to generate a test session for benchmarking purposes. People with dual-boot installations of MacOSX and Windows could run test sessions to compare many different performance parameters, such as latency, recording, live monitoring with Anticipative FX switched off for recording tracks and live fx, GUI speed for zooming, editing and screenset switching, and so much more.

Tallisman

06-03-2008, 02:17 PM

I think it's funny, that you write Macs would have become obsolete these days, while you claim, you have knowledge about Linux.
I have never met anyone with knowledge about a decent OS, like Linux, who said, that Macs were obsolete due to Windows. :D

there must be some sort of language barrier happening here as I have never said that Macs were obsolete. Neither did I say such about Mac OS. What I did say, and still stand by is this: Claiming that a Mac, or mac OS is a necessity, a fundamental, must-have foundation for professional caliber DAWs, holds the same water as saying that you cannot be a pro outfit without pro tools. 10 years ago, this was probably true; not today.

good day

.t

Odin

06-04-2008, 01:39 AM

kerryg

06-04-2008, 09:43 AM

And again you use strawmans.
You wrote, that Macs would have no advantages these days.
What is the conclusion, if something has no advantage but is more expensive than the alternative?

It's plain wrong, that Macs would have no advantages.
Besides the non-technical advantages, there are the technical advantages of the OS and the software.
Since you prefer to talk in a rabulistic way instead to bring counter arguments to the facts i presented, i will stop this stupid discussion with this reply.

As last argument that MACs have no advantages: a Mac can be run on the internet without any antivir-software, while 15% of the performance on a Windoze machine is eaten by them.

This topic is no longer watched by me, so don't try to write another rabulistic and factfree reply.

I've been a pure Mac user myself for 16 years, and was a Mac audio consultant for studios for years. I see PCs cropping up all over the place in pro studios nowadays as the platform of choice.

I have no real idea what point you're trying to make here, but here's the reality: whatever the case may have been ten years ago - many of my production partners have been on PCs for years now, running Nuendo and REAPER and a host of other platforms. They get great results and their rigs run with stability, power and flexibility to spare.

I really don't care about "abstracts" and "theories". My actual experience is that while it certainly seems true that PC-based DAWs may take somewhat more tweaking than Macs, and that you definitely have to be on top of the components you're using in your DAW and how they interact - in the hands of a competent pro PC-based DAWS have been completely stable, completely formidable, completely professional and up to the most critical applications, certainly every bit as much so as a Mac. And this has been the case for many years.

I fixed studios' crashing Macs professionally for years, so you can't sell me the "Macs are solid as a rock" BS. Don't even go there - if they were, I wouldn't have made a living fixing them.

You're probably unaware of how rudely you're responding to Talismann, who is being pretty polite in return. But you just come off as "trying to pick a platform-war fight". Those days are long over and done.

The winners in 2008 are the end users who have long outgrown this childish "my platform is better than your platform!" dickwaving, really couldn't give a rat's ass about which kind of computer they capture the all-important "great performance of a great song" on, and are just happy to have a range of choices - all of them good and valid.

airon

06-04-2008, 12:48 PM

I'll have this thread locked if this goes any further. Kerryg has stated the bleeding obvious, and that's that.

Now can anyone remember who put out a performance test session last year ?

For that matter, and this is addressed to you Justin, is performance data of sessions like that of any use to you, or do you have that kind of testing covered yourself ?

If so, I'll stick to reporting bugs.

kerryg

06-04-2008, 12:58 PM

at running such a performance test myself, if there's a downloadable test session or instructions. Dual G5, 2ghz.

PS: sorry for stating the obvious. It's probably because I'm a bass player - that's pretty much our entire job description in a nutshell. :D

airon

06-04-2008, 05:01 PM

Pay it no more attention.

The test sessions were created by TAFKAT. They were introduced when he made tests to see how different DAWs scaled with more CPU cores. The thread is here:
http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18747&highlight=Nuendo+shootout

The benchmark sessions can all be found here:
http://www.dawbench.com/benchmarks.htm

The X-Scaling results are here if anyone's interested:
http://www.dawbench.com/dawbenchdsp-x-scaling.htm

Get the Universal Benchmark, which is the topmost entry on the page at the present time.

I'm curious to see results, but I only hope they'll show the odd weakness of either build and perhaps help with fixing a performance issue or two, should there be any.

I'll run the test on my MacbookPro, which is last generation(before the multitouch pad) 2.14 GHz, 15" screen, 120 GB HD.

Tallisman

06-05-2008, 12:11 AM