Mellow Prog

[sammydix]

Got with a UK buddy that I sometimes collaborate with under the name of "Sock Puppets." He's a pure classic prog (not metal prog) guy and wrote and performed the music to this song. David McNair played the drums, but unfortunately only sent a stereo stem, so there wasn't much I could do with the individual kit.

https://app.box.com/s/6ifemx558c0d0g0x89lqd7ziu2xq70vx

(replaced old version with de-shrilled version.)
Also shaved of the bass a little.
Hammerons removed from vocal section
Latest: "Softening" and (hopefully) better blended acoustic guitars.

Graham Exton: Composer/performer
David McNair: Drums
Me: Vocals/Lyrics/Mix

DISTORTED
Exton/Dixon 2016

Day after day
When I can feel nothing
Laughing at clowns
When they're not around
Over and over again

So how can I
Comprehend something
When all of the clues
Fade into hues
In separate parts like the rain

And it calls (for me)
And it falls (you see)
And the flames grow cold
I can see no more, too clear

Nothing is nothing
but turns into something
without any shape or performance I know
(I can't keep the tempo)

Push it all under,
Instead I just wander thru glass
(What I need's not here)

Holding to something
That switches and twists far too fast
For me to understand what it's for
(Why can't it stay simple?)

But I'm not a man who can stay down too long,
So how can I benefit you?

Thoughts?

[bob]

Pink Floyd sprung to mind.Great mix.lovely and clear and loud.
not too sure about the guitar hammer ons?

[sammydix]

not too sure about the guitar hammer ons?
Meaning? Should they be lowered?
Thanks bob.

[BCF1]

I don't really know much about anything Prog, but the mix sounds pretty damn good to me. I'll echo the Pink Floyd comparison because that's really all I have familiarity with to draw from. In my book that is a really good thing !! I think the hammer-ons are cool, but perhaps a little to prominent. Vocals are great !!! Nice job Sammy

[sammydix]

When you guys say "hammer ons," do you mean the acoustic guitars at the start, or the the trills on the electric guitar (like the one where I first start singing)?

If it's the opening guitars, I have to say they're a bit too strident. I had to try to tone them down, but without dulling the strummed and picked acoustic parts later on. Then I saw I had one helluva brain fart. All I had to do was separate the strident sections to their own tracks and process them apart...which I'm doing right now.

If you mean the trills, I'll just turn them down while I'm at it.

Thanks guys.

[BCF1]

When you guys say "hammer ons," do you mean the acoustic guitars at the start, or the the trills on the electric guitar

I believe we were both referring to the trills(at least I was) that start around 1:46

[sammydix]

I brought them down in the new mix. Not enough?

[bob]

If it was me I'd remove the hammer ons altogether when the vocals are present or better still slowly fade them out at a round the 2min 22sec mark.
I'd try that.fade them out at thev2.22ish mark.
Apart from that great tune nicely recorded in this humble amateurs opinion

[BCF1]

I brought them down in the new mix. Not enough?

It's too damn early in the morning to be sure but IMO it Sounds better.......

[JH4094]

I used to come to this forum years ago and listened to your stuff then. While still good then you have definitely progressed. That's awesome!!!

IMO...the trills should be taken out or pushed way back. They are somewhat distracting.

Great job!

[karbomusic]

I dig it, before the vocal came in it sort of had a small YES vibe to my ears. I think the hammerons they are speaking of are the trills on the electric guitar. I'd 'almost' be tempted to make those the appropriate synth voice, whatever that might be, or keep as guitar and make it a little smoother and less biting but I just woke up and listened only once thus far so take my half-asleep advice with a grain of salt. :)

[HugoRibeiroDotCom]

Can't deny the Pink Floyd vibe! :)
Sounds great Sammy. And your voice also reminds me of David Gilmore. :D
Great job!!

cheers

[sammydix]

Ok guys, got it now. I'll both lower and fade the hammer-ons when I start singing, but I really like them there when there's no vocal. That was more my fault than Graham's because in the original arrangement, the vocals came later--after the trills. I changed it and started sooner to add and extra verse, so I stepped on his playing in that spot, which now seems to step on my vocals.

Thanks everybody!

@JH4094: glad to see you back! Loooooong time man!

[sammydix]

Went the complete removal direction, so no hammers during vocals along with a few other tweaks. Same original link.

[mschuster]

i read all these posts about "the horribly, troubling, menacing hammer-ons" and i'm like, gosh, i don't hear anything too abrasive. what a bunch of whiny, little bitches... lol Then i read your last post. ;)

Nice song. As always - very nice vocals. Fits like a glove. I'm not a big prog guy, so could probably do without the into, but certainly appreciated it and the creativity that went into it.

Very nice, par usual!

[Timothy Lawler]

Creative arrangement. Excellent vocal performance, well recorded.

[sammydix]

i read all these posts about "the horribly, troubling, menacing hammer-ons" and i'm like, gosh, i don't hear anything too abrasive. what a bunch of whiny, little bitches... lol Then i read your last post. ;)

Nice song. As always - very nice vocals. Fits like a glove. I'm not a big prog guy, so could probably do without the into, but certainly appreciated it and the creativity that went into it.

Very nice, par usual!

Thanks Mark. Frankly, I really like the opening, but then Graham already knows I'm a big fan of his stuff. Without it, it'd be a pretty short song!

[g4greg]

I can't comment on the hammer-ons, as I didn't hear the first version, but what I can say is that this version is very well done!

It definitely has a waters-era pink floyd vibe, and I love that.

My only nitpick (because it truly is a nitpick, as the mix is VERY solid right now) is the sound of the acoustic guitar.. it sounds a little too "DI".. how about putting a really short reverb on it to simulate a "real" room? and baybe tewak the EQ on it a hair to give it more balls..


Aside from that, I thoroughly enjoyed the song, GREAT job guys!

[sammydix]

Creative arrangement. Excellent vocal performance, well recorded.

Thanks Timothy!

[kindafishy]

Sammy, just listened in my mix space. I think this sounds really great. There is a great overall sound to the mix. Great depth. I really like how different elements are popping at different times.

I do agree with g4greg in regards to the acoustic and I noticed it before I read his feedback. It doesn't quite sit in the mix with the same sense of belonging as other other elements. I feel as if it is a little bit too up front in the mix.

[sammydix]

I can't comment on the hammer-ons, as I didn't hear the first version, but what I can say is that this version is very well done!

It definitely has a waters-era pink floyd vibe, and I love that.

My only nitpick (because it truly is a nitpick, as the mix is VERY solid right now) is the sound of the acoustic guitar.. it sounds a little too "DI".. how about putting a really short reverb on it to simulate a "real" room? and baybe tewak the EQ on it a hair to give it more balls..


Aside from that, I thoroughly enjoyed the song, GREAT job guys!
Got it. That bugged me too, but I couldn't quite put my finger on why. I think you just said in words what I was feeling. Thanks!

[sammydix]

Sammy, just listened in my mix space. I think this sounds really great. There is a great overall sound to the mix. Great depth. I really like how different elements are popping at different times.

I do agree with g4greg in regards to the acoustic and I noticed it before I read his feedback. It doesn't quite sit in the mix with the same sense of belonging as other other elements. I feel as if it is a little bit too up front in the mix.

And now the acoustic guitars are confirmed. I'll see what I can do with that taking your and greg's suggestions.
I suppose this isn't too bad for using cheap plugins and my main eq is free. Not a $300 plugin in sight. So much hype out there when all you need is to hone your skills. Not that I don't have a ways to go myself, but I least I consider that my main focus.

[BCF1]

So much hype out there when all you need is to hone your skills. Not that I don't have a ways to go myself, but I least I consider that my main focus.

New mix is sounding really quite good !!!



lol.......I hope to have a "main focus" someday.......(sigh)

[sammydix]

New mix is sounding really quite good !!!



lol.......I hope to have a "main focus" someday.......(sigh)

I wouldn't sweat it, man. Listening to your 'then' and 'now' is a HUGE difference. You've already started.

[g4greg]

And now the acoustic guitars are confirmed. I'll see what I can do with that taking your and greg's suggestions.
I suppose this isn't too bad for using cheap plugins and my main eq is free. Not a $300 plugin in sight. So much hype out there when all you need is to hone your skills. Not that I don't have a ways to go myself, but I least I consider that my main focus.


I totally agree! It's a million times better to understand how a compressor really works instead of slapping on a shiny plug that claims it's doing everything for you.

I mostly use reaplugs and TB plugs, which are dirt cheap. The only "expensive" stuff in my arsenal are the valhalla room and jamstix, because, well.. I need a drum machine, and I just couldn't find a good sounding free reverb.

Your mixes sound really good, and they would stand up to any commercial release. Keep on truckin man, you're really dishing out quality stuff.

To get back on topic, you should do more of this floyd stuff, it really suits your voice!

[karbomusic]

I totally agree! It's a million times better to understand how a compressor really works instead of slapping on a shiny plug that claims it's doing everything for you.

No doubt. I have plenty of paid plugins but I can't say I've purchased them based on 'sound' as much as feature set, workflow, ease of use etc. And I'm just as likely to throw blockfish for example on as a compressor as I've ever been because it just works. I also typically prefer less buttons and knobs, it's music, not a science experiment (most of the time anyway).

[sammydix]

I totally agree! It's a million times better to understand how a compressor really works instead of slapping on a shiny plug that claims it's doing everything for you.

I mostly use reaplugs and TB plugs, which are dirt cheap. The only "expensive" stuff in my arsenal are the valhalla room and jamstix, because, well.. I need a drum machine, and I just couldn't find a good sounding free reverb.

Your mixes sound really good, and they would stand up to any commercial release. Keep on truckin man, you're really dishing out quality stuff.

To get back on topic, you should do more of this floyd stuff, it really suits your voice!
I guess I should have said "cheap mixing plugins" because I own AD2, it's not really expensive, but it ain't exactly cheap either. Same for Sir2 (I use mainly convolution IRs for verb). For mixing--big Klanghelm fanboy, and he's embarrassingly cheap for the sound.

[sammydix]

No doubt. I have plenty of paid plugins but I can't say I've purchased them based on 'sound' as much as feature set, workflow, ease of use etc. And I'm just as likely to throw blockfish for example on as a compressor as I've ever been because it just works. I also typically prefer less buttons and knobs, it's music, not a science experiment (most of the time anyway).

I purchased the ones I own for precisely the same reason. But at the same time, I can still say whatever works, works. I just can't stand a lot of choices. That just slows me down--and gives me more ways to screw up. Skynard wrote Simple Man just for me.

Ah, Blockfish, brings back memories...

[karbomusic]

Ah, Blockfish, brings back memories...

Works great on electric geeters. :)

[sammydix]

I think I still have all those "Fishes" burned into an old CD somewhere. For me, they were kinda 'fun' plugins to use.

[Cosmic]

This is absolutely fantastic!

And the mix is top drawer..T O P D R A W E R ..through my decent desktop speakers

As a fan of classic prog, I give this 2 Cosmic Thumbs aloft.

[sammydix]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Cos! I think the better mixing came from experimentation with my fav plugins and finding what works well with what.

[tspring]

Hey Sammy - You really nailed the vocals of this tune. Very confident and 'real' feeling to them. You and Cosmic are really raising the bar on the quality of harmonies on the Reaper forum these days. Really well done. Recording and arrangement are also very good, all stretched over some very good melodic bones. I'm not sure what genre I would put this in if you asked me... maybe I would just say 'the good kind'.

T

[sammydix]

Thanks T. I thought it was a cool outlet to try something different and took it. I'm such a different genre chameleon. Comes from boring easily.

[msundh]

I'm not sure what genre I would put this in if you asked me... maybe I would just say 'the good kind'.

+1 :)

[sammydix]

+1 :)

What? No vocals too low?

[msundh]

What? No vocals too low?

:) Being the only one on earth that don't like Pink Floyd prevented me from listen to your song. Sorry.
But I wouldn't be surprised if vox was too low;)

[sammydix]

No need for "sorry." Doesn't make it not a good song in the least. But they weren't, believe it or not!

[sammydix]

One last time for tweaks taking Greg and Kinda's suggestion to better blend the acoustic guitars. Also did a little "softening" to round off some of the transients more. Same OP link.

Or here to not have to scroll back:
https://app.box.com/s/6ifemx558c0d0g0x89lqd7ziu2xq70vx

[jason_442]

This is really good, so clear and clean sounding! Love the Floyd vibe as well!

[sammydix]

Appreciate that Jason.