SWS Live Configs?

[pipelineaudio]

Anyone know of an updated, step by step guide for SWS Live Configs?

[mschnell]

Anyone know of an updated, step by step guide for SWS Live Configs?

I wrote one -> http://www.bschnell.de/LiveConfigs_1.pdf

You also might want to search the Forum for "LiveConfigs" to get a lot more information on that issue.

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

Thank you so much! Do I have this right that you switch tracks on live configs by sending different values of the same cc ? That seems insane! Can that be changed to different ccs instead?

[Cableaddict]

I wrote one -> http://www.bschnell.de/LiveConfigs_1.pdf

You also might want to search the Forum for "LiveConfigs" to get a lot more information on that issue.

-Michael



Nice.

Thx.

[mschnell]

Thank you so much! Do I have this right that you switch tracks on live configs by sending different values of the same cc ? That seems insane! Can that be changed to different ccs instead?

LiveConfifs uses one CC per "Config" (a page of 8 working in parallel, if configured).

On receive of a CC value it will select one (of 128 ) lines on that page.

Same can be configured to unmute one track (and mute all others that are mentioned on that page) and optionally for more stuff (call a Reaper Action, push presets to plugins, ...)

I use LiveConfigs as a base of a rather complex setup of JSFXes. This receive midi messages and send out CCs to LiveConfigs when appropriate, Of course you easily can do a JSFX that translates CC numbers to values of a single CC.

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

I like SWS snapshots for this, as it will reset the fx chain if you say turned on the wah, but I find it is impossible to update your track settings because you would need to recall and resave every single snapshot with the new settings any time you change anything. I haven't found a way around that

I am now trying with SWS mute slots instead, and it seems to be working extremely well and the switching is instant. I'm having a little trouble getting it so that I can have reatune on and in an open window, which was an easy thign to do with SWS snapshots. The other trouble I'm having is having the say, wah turned off when I reload the channel. SWS Snapshots does this perfectly, but I cant figure out a way to say "send CC#10 value 0 on load"

I'll try SWS Live configs again

So should I be doing each sound on a different config? I really am sketched about the idea of using CC values of the same controller for switching, I'm not sure of the utility of that

I'm still very confused even with that guide

[pipelineaudio]

Is there a sample RPP of this anywhere?

[BenK-msx]

Appropriately enough for groundhog Day... May be too simplistic for your aim but may assist.

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php?p=1517914&postcount

Which was a reply to you!

It is easy to forget how these tools work tho! I for example need a refresh on super 8..

[pipelineaudio]

thank you !!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29BoqCMRBFk

[mschnell]

So should I be doing each sound on a different config?
For clearness I avoid the term "Configs", as LiveConfigs provides eight "pages" with 128 "lines" each.

LiveConfigs does not force a dedicated way to use these, but is very flexible.

In my Live playing setup, I use a page for each of my two keyboards and a line for each of the patches (sounds) that I defined for that keyboard.

This means that I can select the patch to be played completely indecently for the keyboards. This might or might not be appropriate regarding the performance style intended.


I really am sketched about the idea of using CC values of the same controller for switching, I'm not sure of the utility of that
The original author is a guitarist and he had a pedal board that sent different values for the same CC when pressing a button. So that messages could be fed directly into the "Reaper Control Path" by checking the "control" box in the midi device setting. (As the Midi standard suggests) Keyboards use Program Change events for such purpose, so you need a JSFX and the "MidiToReaControlPath" VST to create the correct CCs for LiveConfigs (See guide).

Recently I got an XTouch Compact controller board to sit beside the smaller one of the keyboards (I did poste a picture in the forum some time ago). Now the input to the JSFX system, is no longer Program change (from the keyboards) but CCs from the XTouch (I could configure the XTouch to send anything I like, bit I did stay with the default here).

I'm still very confused even with that guideThis is still a work in progress. Please come back with dedicated questions, if possible. I'll try to improve the text.

BTW.: As you are a very honorable forum user (nearly 12,000 posts), is there a way you can support my long standing request to install a dedicated subforum for "Reaper Live Usage". IMHO this would be very appropriate.


-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

I’ll see what I can do about that. I’m going to try and have a very long and detailed talk with Justin about midi in reaper in general very soon. I have a feeling this will be very nostalgic for both of us, it really feels like the birth of reaper again for me.

I really really really am not getting how to use live configs even in the slightest little bit

I was able with saws solo and mute slots to get my pedalboard to do about 90% where I want it to get to and with zero switching delay, but holy crap man, it meant programming the pedalboard a very whacky way and seriously hacking the actions into giant unwieldy macros, tanking my key prefs and still being quite sketched about how it works.

I will try live configs again tomorrow, I guess I could program my pedal board to be 1 cc with 10 different values to start with if that’s how it needs to go.

I still don’t get the basic premise. Do I make ten tracks that by themselves are the different sounds I’d like?

There are some fx toggling and stuff that I need to do, like the wah.

It seems like loading and unloading presets would take way too much time for switching, but for the wah for instance, I need it toggled off when I select a new track, I have a very kludgy way to do that right now but I don’t know how I’d do that with live configs

[mschnell]

I guess I could program my pedal board to be 1 cc with 10 different values
Not really necessary.
As rather common with Keyboards that send Program Change messages, you can do the same with the data coming from the Pedal Board:

- Use a dedicated track to receive the Midi from the Pedal board
- Do a JSFX that converts whatever data the pedal board sends to a single CC with multiple values
- use MidiToReaControlPath to send these CC messages to LiveConfigs
- have LiveConfigs Learn this CC for one of it's pages.

Do I make ten tracks that by themselves are the different sounds I’d like?
This is one option you have.
You also can use a single track (even nowhere define a track at all in LiveConfigs, so it will not touch the mute/unmute stuff at all) and have LiveConfigs push 10 different sets of presets to your VSTs (affecting all of them or just some of them ) you have in your audio track
Or you can use a combination of this (this is what I do): use less than 10 tracks (defining the same track in multiple lines of a LiveConfigs page) and modify the effect settings appropriately.

On top of that, there is yet another option (I use this a lot for my VSTis). If the effect pluginss themselves accept Midi messages, you can do a JSFX that sends out such messages (usually CCs, here set to another midi channel than used for LiveConfigs) when a message from the pedal board is received. Now in Reaper this Midi channel is routed to the track(s) that hold the audio plugins.

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

- have LiveConfigs Learn this CC for one of it's pages.

-Michael

I don’t get this part at all. The only thing I can see how to get it to learn the cc for a single config but not how to switch inside it

[pipelineaudio]

This is one option you have.
You also can use a single track (even nowhere define a track at all in LiveConfigs, so it will not touch the mute/unmute stuff at all) and have LiveConfigs push 10 different sets of presets to your VSTs (affecting all of them or just some of them ) you have in your audio track


The plugins I’m using take way way way too long to load or when switching presets to do it this way



Or you can use a combination of this (this is what I do): use less than 10 tracks (defining the same track in multiple lines of a LiveConfigs page) and modify the effect settings appropriately.

-Michael

I think that is what I’m trying to get it to do, when I get to work, I’ll try this again.

[mschnell]

I don’t get this part at all. The only thing I can see how to get it to learn the cc for a single config but not how to switch inside it
LiveConfigs learns the Midi channel and the CC # and associates it with the LiveConfigs page you selected.

This done, with any Midi CC coming to it with that channel and CC #, it activates the line on that page according to the CC value (0 ... 127).

-Michael

[mschnell]

The plugins I’m using take way way way too long to load or when switching presets to do it this way
Usually plugins don't take any time when pushing presets to them. This just changes VST parameters.

Samplers might indeed load a new sample library. That is why with Kontakt I use instrument banks that are loaded when loading the Reaper project.

Maybe you use Convolution engines that use large impulse files, though.

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

For bias fx switching presets or reloading one for instance, can take 5-10 seconds before its playing audio again, a lot of these things are sketchy that way, but I’ll give it a shot.

Kind of in shock at the types of midi functions that aren’t available in reaper. Hopefully I can get some time to talk to Justin in the next few days,but in general, here’s some things I can’t seem to find, so please tell me if I’m wrong so I don’t waste his time on any we can already do

1. Can’t seem to specify what values turn on or off many of the functions like bypass...seems they can toggle, but you can’t say for instance 0is off 65 is on.

2. Related I can’t seem to find polarity for switches and knobs under midi

3. Natively switch presets under midi

4. Send a midi cc from an action

5. Directly specify a midi message to assign to an action or function, though you can midi learn it.

6. Once an action is learned with midi assigned to it, can’t edit the values associated with different states of the action.

[mschnell]

... switching presets or reloading ...
These are completely different things. reloading might take long while pushing presets might go on the fly (as said: here only automation parameters get modified). Please do a test before deciding !

-Michael

[mschnell]

1. Can’t seem to specify what values turn on or off many of the functions like bypass...seems they can toggle, but you can’t say for instance 0is off 65 is on.
What exactly has this to do with Midi ? What are you trying to accomplish ?

2. Related I can’t seem to find polarity for switches and knobs under midi
What switches and knobs ?

3. Natively switch presets under midiI have no idea what you mean by this.

4. Send a midi cc from an actionWhy would you want to do this and where do you want to send it ?

5. Directly specify a midi message to assign to an action or function, though you can midi learn it. I don't see much sense in this.

6. Once an action is learned with midi assigned to it, can’t edit the values associated with different states of the action.I did not try this. But once you use LiveConfigs you can have same trigger the action you want instead of directly learning the midi event to the action. To me this seems like a lot more useful.

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

What exactly has this to do with Midi ? What are you trying to accomplish ?



For switching say, the bypass of a plugin. I'm using this for guitar, so a lot of stuff is going to be turning on and off stompboxes

What switches and knobs ?

Functions in reaper like muting and unmuting receives, CC controllable functions in plugins, etc.

I have no idea what you mean by this.

Using MIDI to switch user created presets, like the *.rpl. Seems like SWS Live Configs can do this, but I can't find it natively. This particular one was something we talked about a lot before REAPER 1 came out, and it seemed like it really wasn't something that made a whole lot of sense at the time, but now it does

Why would you want to do this and where do you want to send it ?

I would like to send it to specific plugins in a track to say turn off a stomp I had turned on earlier so that when I switch to a different sound, when I come back to the original sound, that stomp is off as it was in the default. VERY useful, something that most of the Rack processors used for guitar FX can do, critically useful, for many many many guitarists, kind of like one of those "do not pass go, do not collect 200 dollars, go directly to jail" type of things.

I realize there are probably other ways to do this, but this seems to me to be something very desirable.

I don't see much sense in this.

For instance, many pedalboards can simultaneously send more than one midi message with one press, you want to make sure you are using the right one to control this function. Or just manually switching it to hear a different message

[pipelineaudio]

I'm reprogramming my pedalboard right now to directly send CC's so I'll be trying live configs again in a sec

[mschnell]

I'm reprogramming my pedalboard right now to directly send CC's
As mentioned above: not really necessary.

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

As mentioned above: not really necessary.

-Michael

Trying to run as few plugs as possible, but some success!

I got it to switch.

Doing it by switching fx presets turns out to be way too slow, but I'm going to try it by track now

[pipelineaudio]

There's a much longer delay when switching tracks thru live configs than when using sws mute group slots, not sure what I can do to fix this.

But I see a deactivate action, maybe I can somehow have this unmute the sends to a delay track or something?

[mschnell]

For switching say, the bypass of a plugin. I'm using this for guitar, so a lot of stuff is going to be turning on and off stompboxes
The "bypass" in the FX chain to me is a configuration help, but not something to be used for live switching. I can imagine several decent ways to create a bypass switch: use multiple channels ("pin routing") in the FX chain and find or do a switcher JSFX selecting the input denoted by a slider and now pushing a setup to that JSFX will do the switching. Or do appropriate audio routing to several tracks and have LiveConfigs mute / unmute those.


Functions in reaper like muting and unmuting receives, CC controllable functions in plugins, etc.
This is exactly what LiveConfigs is provided for. (CC controllable function: see the User Guide "SliderToPS" of course that plugin can be enhanced to send CCs. But usually CCs in plugins are available as VST parameters (automation) as well and hence can be used by pushing a setup.)


Using MIDI to switch user created presets, like the *.rpl.
This is exactly what LiveConfigs is provided for.


I would like to send it to specific plugins
JSFXes can create any midi messages and Reaper can route them wherever you want.


I realize there are probably other ways to do this, but this seems to me to be something very desirable.

A better support for Live playing in Reaper indeed would be very desirable (starting with installing a dedicated forum).

But I am not a friend of requesting to bloat the basic Reaper DAW with features dedicated to a certain kind of usage (such as Live playing, Mastering, controlling Lighting equipment, ... Reaper happily is able to be enhanced by 3rd party add-ons that support this (here: LiveConfigs).

Of course it would be nice if somebody would come up with an even more comprehensive "Live Tool Kit" (e.g. an enhanceable project template, a well defined configuration workflow supported by some scripts, a set of JSFXes dedicated to that purpose, documentation, ...), as LiveConfigs can provide perfect results, but setting it up to work in a complex environment (such as mine) really needs a decent effort.


For instance, many pedalboards can simultaneously send more than one midi message with one press,Obviously this is not needed and should be switched off when using LiveConfigs, as this would be the source of major confusion.

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

Alright, some of this is really starting to work, thanks for all this help!

Now I'm confused on some other stuff.

For instance, I would like to have slot 9 be my tuner preset, so when I press it, all tracks mute (or just no output to master is ok), ReaTune unbypasses on the audio input track and floats the fx window. When I select any other controller value slot, I want that to go away and load the associated track. How would you do this?

SOme of the switches I would like to simply turn on of off say a delay track and route whatever the current track is to that (or I could have the delay have its receives unmuted) but still stay on whichever track I was on when I selected it.

[pipelineaudio]

For things like delay and harmonizer, I think I'd actually like these to be able to stomp on and off, rather than switching out to another preset to turn them off, but maybe its ok either way

[pipelineaudio]

Starting to think I probably want a mixer at the end of this whole chain, that I could switch with to different FX presets, but I don't see a way to affect more than one track at once with Live configs

[mschnell]

How would you do this?
I have exactly no idea. My understanding of a Live setup is that no Monitor is attached to the "embedded" computer that runs Reaper.

Maybe there are ways to have LiveConfigs manage the Reaper GUI, but I am not aware of such.

-Michael

[mschnell]

(or I could have the delay have its receives unmuted) but still stay on whichever track I was on when I selected it.

Of course this should be possible. Maybe you in fact do need an audio switcher JSFX. (If you don't find one or can do one yourself, I'll do one for you).

-Michael

[mschnell]

Starting to think...
Using LiveConfigs plus some JSFXes, you can do very sophisticated things. So you should first learn about the possibilities and then carefully do a plan exactly what kind of instrument you want to play.

-Michael

[mschnell]

I don't see a way to affect more than one track at once with Live configs
I did not try, but is should be possible to use multiple LiveConfig pages for this (at least when sending CCs for both of them either directly by the pedal board or by doing an appropriate JSFX to multiply the CC messages).

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

I have exactly no idea. My understanding of a Live setup is that no Monitor is attached to the "embedded" computer that runs Reaper.

Maybe there are ways to have LiveConfigs manage the Reaper GUI, but I am not aware of such.

-Michael

This is why we're having trouble communicating exact stuff, I'm looking to replace an iPad as the rack, with a computer as the rack, I definitely want the same GUI abilities

I think I'm looking at this as a very different perspective as a rack mount guitar player type, pretty much trying to make this like an Axe FX or old digitech or whatever

But I was able to get some of it working! Pretty happy about that, activate deactivate makes it WAY easier than the zillions of actions I had to trigger! Really glad you stuck through this with me, I think I can get this going

Can you think of a way to affect other tracks without leaving the track you are on? Maybe it can do actions without having a track specified....This seems REALLy powerful, as long as I can get my imagination correct

https://i.imgur.com/5zs3MYd.png

[mschnell]

Can you think of a way to affect other tracks without leaving the track you are on?
Yep. Using multiple pages in LiveConfigs in parallel.

"Custom Tuner Float"
Seemingly you were able to find a way to manage the GUI by LiveConfigs.

Great ! I might want to use something like this some day, as I am searching for a small display to attach to the XTouch controller showing the name of the Patches I selected for the upper and the lower keyboard.

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

Yep. Using multiple pages in LiveConfigs in parallel.


But I dont necessarily want any input routing going on, just controlling of the FX presets of say a JS Mixer

[pipelineaudio]

Man if I could make an action to send a CC, I would seriously be set here I think.

I suppose I could make every track a giant CPU munching chain and switch between them, but that really sounds like a bad idea to me

[mschnell]

But I dont necessarily want any input routing going on, just controlling of the FX presets of say a JS Mixer
You can set Options->"Mute all but the selected track" per LiveConfigs page. So you can use one page mute/unmute your tracks and another to push presets etc.

-Michael

[mschnell]

It seems not to be possible to learn the same midi channel CC # to two Pages at the same time.

LiveConfigs binding to Midi seems to be done by a Reaper thet in fact "learns" the binding. Now LiveConfigs can fire an action when a line is selcted. So it might be possible to use the action defined in one page to set the line in another page. (But I am not fluent with this actions stuff..)

...

This in fact seems to work. I set the action "LiveConfig #2 apply config" in LiveConfig page #1 and now page #2 switches to the same line as page #1.

I suppose you can do very advanced stuff when using LiveConfigs actions.

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

I can find actions to load next and previous preset, but not directly load a preset number. I think I would like to have a mixer before the master and be able to select presets in it

[pipelineaudio]

It seems not to be possible to learn the same midi channel CC # to two Pages at the same time.

LiveConfigs binding to Midi seems to be done by a Reaper thet in fact "learns" the binding. Now LiveConfigs can fire an action when a line is selcted. So it might be possible to use the action defined in one page to set the line in another page. (But I am not fluent with this actions stuff..)

-Michael

Ahhh bummer this is exactly what I was going to try and do for the mixer, lemme see if I can't get one of those piz plugins to do it

[mschnell]

Man if I could make an action to send a CC

Easy!

Push a preset to an appropriate JSFX to move it's slider(s) and the JSFX will send the CC value you set the slider(s) to at that moment.

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

This is exactly the type of situation where I want direct entry of the learnable assignments. Piz MIDI can send me another set of those CC messages, I just cant tell SWS to accept them as it will learn the first message it gets, if I could tell it to use the other one, I'd be set

[mschnell]

I can find actions to load next and previous preset, but not directly load a preset number. I think I would like to have a mixer before the master and be able to select presets in it
As said in the message above, just "apply" sets the same value as had been used to fire the action.

So the pages will run in parallel.

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

Easy!

Push a preset to an appropriate JSFX to move it's slider(s) and the JSFX will send the CC value you set the slider(s) to at that moment.

-Michael

Which JS can do this?

[mschnell]

Ahhh bummer this is exactly what I was going to try and do for the mixer, lemme see if I can't get one of those piz plugins to do it
I did not understand the "mixer" stuff. For additional parallel LiveConfigs pages it's not necessary, since I found that it works with the "LiveConfigs #x apply" action.

-Michael

[mschnell]

Which JS can do this?
I did a "SliderToMidiPS" JSFX. (It is installable and documented by ReaPack) It could easily be modified to send CC instead of PS. What exactly are you trying to accomplish ?

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

I tried switching the mixer with a parallel config in live configs using one of the piz tools to send the same cc's on another channel, but there's a long mute while switching JS mixer presets, so I'm trying to figure a way to switch the mixer presets directly

[mschnell]

there's a long mute while switching JS mixer presets
What is JS Mixer ?
It would be good to find out what exactly causes the mute to be able to decently avoid that.

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

I was testing using JS: 8x Mono to 1x Stereo Mixer

I know in your guide you said not to use both enable and control for the midi input, but it seems like I lose a lot of functions if I don't have them both on

I was able to use a piz plugin to change programs on the mixer and it works fine, but you are right, figuring out why SWS Live Configs mutes it would be way better. It seems like it mutes and unmutes if you put anything in the "Fx Presets" row

[pipelineaudio]

I did a "SliderToMidiPS" JSFX. (It is installable and documented by ReaPack) It could easily be modified to send CC instead of PS. What exactly are you trying to accomplish ?

-Michael

I want to send an action to send a CC value, say to turn the wet dry all the way to zero when I change channels

[pipelineaudio]

is there a way to activate more than one action per slot, or do I need to make macros to combine them?

[pipelineaudio]

I'm not finding a good way to toggle fx on and off here. Trying to think if I could just set up a pedalboard full of patches and not worry about turning fx on and off

[pipelineaudio]

I guess let me layout how I'd ultimately like to see this pedalboard and maybe you can make sense of it

pedal 1: Clean and dry

pedal 2: Distorted and dry

pedal 3: More distorted and dry

pedal 4: switch on/off chorus delay reverb

pedal 5: switch on/off C Major Harmonizer (with the ability to go thru pedal 4's fx)

pedal 6: Clean (can be pedal 1's instance) + delay plus chorus plus reverb (can be the fx from pedal 4)

pedal 7: More distorted (can be pedal 3's instance) + delay plus chorus plus reverb (can be the fx from pedal 4)

pedal 8: switch on/off E Major Harmonizer (with the ability to go thru pedal 4's fx)

pedal 9: tuner pops up in the window and mutes the audio. This tuner window goes away when any other pedal is picked

To complicate this, I would like a wah that can be toggled on and off with pedal ten (or better yet auto engaged) The wah should turn off if pedal 1, 2, 3 or 7 is picked (though it can be toggled on and off by switch 10 if chosen)

[mschnell]

I was testing using JS: 8x Mono to 1x Stereo Mixer
Is this in some ReaPack repository ?
-Michael

[mschnell]

I know in your guide you said not to use both enable and control for the midi input, but it seems like I lose a lot of functions if I don't have them both on
Seemingly you (and most) don't decently understand what the "control" checkbox in the Midi device setup means.

In fact "enable" means that the Midi input data stream provided by this device can be routed to tracks to be used as their Midi input. "control" means that the Midi input data stream provided by this device is routed to the "Reaper Control Path", and with that can be seen by Reaper itself (e.g. for learning Actions or LiveConmfigs or VST automation parameters to such messages.)

But in a more complex setup, you will want to review the Midi data stream you get from the controller that e.g. is supposed to switch sounds/patches, by your own functionality (i.e. JSFX scripts). Here additionally sending unfiltered Midi messages directly to the Reaper Control Parh could create a major hassle.

-Michael

[mschnell]

It seems like it mutes and unmutes if you put anything in the "Fx Presets" row
Nope. I did not finally check this out, but it mutes all those tacks that are configured on a page but the one in the row just activated, when the option "mute all but active track" is activated for this page.

-Michael

[mschnell]

I want to send an action to send a CC value, say to turn the wet dry all the way to zero when I change channels

Should I modify the plugin for you by having it feature two sliders "CC #" and CC value ?

If you (via LiveConfigs) push a preset (containing those two setting) onto it, it will send out an appropriate midi message if the slider settings are different from those you set before.

-Michael

[mschnell]

is there a way to activate more than one action per slot, or do I need to make macros to combine them?
AFAIU, you need to do a Macro for this.
-Michael

[mschnell]

I'm not finding a good way to toggle fx on and off here. Trying to think if I could just set up a pedalboard full of patches and not worry about turning fx on and off

Do you want to create the toggle functionality to do you want to control a toggle functionality provided by a VST ?

For latter I don't see any decent way to do this unless the VST provides a means to set one of the states directly.

Regarding the first. I did recommend multiple times (for complex setups) not to use the "control" checked in the midi device for directly routing the messages to Live Configs, but to route them to a track and there use MidiToReaControlPath to access LiveConfigs.

This done, it's easy to do a JSFX that manages the toggle feature.

As your list of desired functionality includes losts of toggles:

It of course would be by far better if the pedalboard itself manages the toggling and just sends "on" and "off" messages, while showing the current state by an LED indicator (or whatever). But if it cant do that, you need to use a JSFX for this (and have the Padalboard send whatever it likes to).

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

Nope. I did not finally check this out, but it mutes all those tacks that are configured on a page but the one in the row just activated, when the option "mute all but active track" is activated for this page.

-Michael

It definitely is muting the receives momentarily on "FX Preset" change here. If you open the i/o you can see the "M" on the recieves turn red then back

[pipelineaudio]

Do you want to create the toggle functionality to do you want to control a toggle functionality provided by a VST ?

For latter I don't see any decent way to do this unless the VST provides a means to set one of the states directly.

Regarding the first. I did recommend multiple times (for complex setups) not to use the "control" checked in the midi device for directly routing the messages to Live Configs, but to route them to a track and there use MidiToReaControlPath to access LiveConfigs.

This done, it's easy to do a JSFX that manages the toggle feature.

-Michael

I don't want to toggle, since that can create situations where it could flip the state and you'd end up with an unwanted effect on. I want to send an all the way off message, in this case I think i have narrowed it down to just the wah, upon switching tracks

[pipelineaudio]

Should I modify the plugin for you by having it feature two sliders "CC #" and CC value ?

If you (via LiveConfigs) push a preset (containing those two setting) onto it, it will send out an appropriate midi message if the slider settings are different from those you set before.

-Michael

I'm not sure what I want this to do will do it through JS, it would have to happen just as a preset was loading up....if that could then, yeah, that would be awesome, but it has to happen only once per channel change

[pipelineaudio]

I got the board to work wirelessly somewhat, but my quest to make it battery powered seems to have failed. I may have completely blown the power supply, I won't know till tomorrow when i can get some more fuses

On the plus side, I was able to get IK's Blueboard to work in windows!

[mschnell]

It definitely is muting the receives momentarily on "FX Preset" change here. If you open the i/o you can see the "M" on the recieves turn red then back
If it mutes the track for a dedicates amount of time, I suppose same is configurable. (Up till now I always used the "mute all" feature, So I did not see that behavior.)

I need to check this out when I revise the Guide (which to certainly will do based on this thread).

-Michael

[mschnell]

I don't want to toggle ...
So "clean/dry does not mean "clean vs dry" but "clean and dry"

I see.

-Michael

[mschnell]

it has to happen only once per channel change
What do you mean by "channel change" (we did not use the term "channel" up till now, here) ?

As said, the plugin will send out a message exactly when you modify one of it's two sliders. That would happen exactly when you switch to a LiveConfigs Line that is configured to put a preset on same (and this is not the same preset as currently active).

-Michael

[mschnell]

I was able to get IK's Blueboard to work in windows!

Great !

How did you do that ? Does it send Midi messages to Reaper ?

I in fact am searching for a way to do a wireless connection for my TEC BBCv2. Same sends midi CCs via USB and I'd like to have a small battery powered device that is connected to the TEC via the standard USB plug and connects to the PC via Bloototh (LE).

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

So "clean/dry does not mean "clean vs dry" but "clean and dry"

I see.

-Michael

No, "toggle" means switch state

"off" is off

"on" is on

off "toggled" is on

If I have the wah off and then the next channel switch is set to toggle it, it'll be on, when I dont want it on, so in some cases toggle is fine, in other cases, I have to insist to send an off

[pipelineaudio]

What do you mean by "channel change" (we did not use the term "channel" up till now, here) ?

As said, the plugin will send out a message exactly when you modify one of it's two sliders. That would happen exactly when you switch to a LiveConfigs Line that is configured to put a preset on same (and this is not the same preset as currently active).

-Michael

I wouldn't want to put anything in the FX preset slot because it causes those temporary mutes

[pipelineaudio]

Great !

How did you do that ? Does it send Midi messages to Reaper ?

I in fact am searching for a way to do a wireless connection for my TEC BBCv2. Same sends midi CCs via USB and I'd like to have a small battery powered device that is connected to the TEC via the standard USB plug and connects to the PC via Bloototh (LE).

-Michael

The Pluggable Bluetooth LE dongle picks it up, then MIDIBerry converts it to something that loopMIDI can use, which then REAPER can see....hopefully we'll get the native support to avoid those two, but its working

Also, I was able to fire up my 1010 on 9v power supply, but I still can't get the JOYO battery to power it, the battery power part of this equation may not be so feasible

[mschnell]

because it causes those temporary mutes
... Which we should try to get rid of (if not desired) frim ground up !

(I only like workarounds if it's proven that the straight path is blocked.)

-Michael

[mschnell]

The Pluggable Bluetooth LE dongle picks it up, then MIDIBerry converts it to something that loopMIDI can use, which then REAPER can see...
Great ! Thanks ! I'll take a look.

Do you think the Bloototh dongle can be avoided in case the PC has Bluetooth LE on board ?

...

Unfortunately I am on Win 7 and MidiBerry does not seem to support same :( .

-Michael

[mschnell]

I'm not sure what I want this to do will do it through JS,
Seemingly you also/better can use a ReaScript like suggested by mpl in the other thread and trigger same by the Action fired by LiveConfigs.

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

Great ! Thanks ! I'll take a look.

Do you think the Bloototh dongle can be avoided in case the PC has Bluetooth LE on board ?

...

Unfortunately I am on Win 7 and MidiBerry does not seem to support same :( .

-Michael

Allegedly it’s better with the onboard one because there aren’t two drivers fighting for the same thing. Hopefully Justin will add the native support, that midiberry thing is sketchy. I’m not worried about loopmidi so much, that guys stuff is always solid for me, but being able to just grab the Bluetooth in in reaper like you can in sonar would be ideal for me

[pipelineaudio]

Its a related tangent but I really can't figure out why my Joyo Battery is not working for this when a 9v regular battery does fine. Not sure if I got a bad one or whatever.

If I plug the charger into it, it'll start the pedalboard up, and I can disconnect the charger, but after some button presses, it turns back off.

I wired it up they way they did here:

http://www.eurekasound.com/fcb1010-dc-mod

And I was following along on how they did this page, and that didnt work with the Joyo either. Both his original way and his newer version

https://community.cantabilesoftware.com/t/behringer-fcb1010-foot-pedal-convert-to-usb-power-incorporate-midi-expression-quattro-with-single-cable/1819

Is there something I can check if I take apart the Joyo?

Or if there is another rechargable battery supply I can try, I'd be happy to, the Eureka site says any adapter from 5v to 9v. I tried a 5v power brick with no luck, I'm thinking there may be a cap it should really fill first or something, or can I wire a cap in here to help with this?

[mschnell]

Hopefully Justin will add the native support,
I hope for the contrary. A DAW is all about audio and Midi, but not about Bluetooth (or USB or Ethernet or whatever audio or Midi streams might be pushed through).

Somebody (maybe even Cockos) should provide a diver that provides a Midi device, Reaper can connect to, similar as all those hardware drivers (e.g. for combined audio and Midi I/O boxes).

-Michael

[mschnell]

I'm not finding a good way to toggle fx on and off here.
While I am more a friend of straight forward solutions (here: using JSFX and ReaTioMidiControlPath), in you special case you also could do this (provided a ReaScript can store a state variable between two calls to it):

- have the pedalboard send out a different CC # for the toggle switch
- do a ReaScript that sends out the CC # you learnd to LiveConfigs and alternately sends two different CC values (resulting in activating different LiveConfig Lines in that page.
- learn the "different CC #" to an action and assign the ReaScript to same.

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

dagnabbit, I really got stuck on the battery power for this damn thing, I'm going to give up on that for now and get back to setting up Live Configs, I think I'm pretty much there now

[pipelineaudio]

Thanks again for all this, I'm setting up two templates now for the BIAS forum

[mschnell]

I'm setting up two templates now for the BIAS forum
O have no idea what you are talking about :(
-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

Do you think theres a way to make it so SWS Live Configs responds to midi CC#'s instead of different calues on the same cc#? This makes it difficult to use other software with this pedalboard, like my iPad guitar setup, though I guess I could load and unload pedalboard presets. Or I could bite the bullet, make everything into a program change instead and use the PC to CC think you linked, though the iPad software won't like that so much either

[mschnell]

As already said at the beginning of this discussion, to me the "straight forward" (recommended by me) way go go is to do all Midi preprocessing in JSFXes (switching off the "control" input in the midi device setting) and use MidiToReaControlPath to send the result of that preprocessing (which will be CC messages with CC # or Midi Channel according to the LiveConfigs page and the CC value according to the line to be activated) to LiveConfigs.

I used this with my keyboards sending Program change messages (each keyboard attached to a dedicated midi device), and with the XTouch controller board sending note-On messages for selecting patches. Of course such patch change trigger messages can be any message type and list you like.

I could not change the behavior of the keyboards, and for a similar reason as you describe, I use the XTouch in it's default programming (nearly).

Hence the JSFX system is used to do all the necessary preprocessing.

As you decided to use "shortcuts" (e.g. by having your pedal board send messages according to the internal usage in the Reaper system, using Actions with ReScripts, ...), enhancing your setup is not "straight forward" any more, and needs appropriate afterthought, I am not really competent to assist with.

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

I'm going to try it like that, reprogram the pedalboard to all PC's, use the JS converter like you said, then see if I can remap my ipad so that it is ok with PC's

[pipelineaudio]

I cant seem to get MIDI learn for individual fx to work if I disable "enable input for control messages" in midi devices

[mschnell]

reprogram the pedalboard to all PC's
I never suggested this. (PS is the usual way Master keyboards work, "Button-controllers" usually send other messages.) I just mentioned that it is possible to have the pedalboard send anything it (or you) like and do some preprocessing in JSFXes.

... use the JS converter
I did not suggest to use "the JS converter", as same needs to be a (set of JSFX scrips to be found or crafted according to the task in question.

-Michael

[mschnell]

I cant seem to get MIDI learn for individual fx to work if I disable "enable input for control messages" in midi devices

Reaper provides two different ways to have midi modulate the VST (automation) parameters of a plugin (e.g. VST or JSFX).

1) "learn": here the Midi message, being the modulation source, is received from the "Reaper Control Path" (that as has been mentioned above is fed e.g. by the "control" box enabled in the Midi device seting).

2) "parameter Modulation" (in the menu directly above "learn"). Here the modulation source can be either a Midi message in the midi stream of same FX chain as the plugin is placed in (or taken from some other Midi bus definable in a menu you'll get to later) or from a ReaMidiControl plugin placed in that track (but never from the Reaper Control Path).

Sorry for creating some confusion, but Reaper is rather complex at this level and the documentation is very sparse. I obviously need to enhance the LiveConfigs Guide by several additional chapters :) .

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

I was trying like in your live configs guide, where you showed to use the PC to CC converter

I think I have some strategy to lay this out, I mean the possibilities are insanely endless! But then each is also a compromise.

So here is a layout requested at the Bias FX forum:

8 pedals to pick patches, consisting of three basic preamp sounds
1 switch for tuner
1 switch for tap tempo
2 expression pedal
Wah on audio input channel with auto engage and a message to reset the wah at the deactivation command of each patch

If I stick the expressions on channel two and the rest as PC's on channel 1, I can use the PC to CC converter and do ok, except for the tap tempo. I could put the tap tempo button on another channel, by reprogramming the pedal board I suppose. I need to look into exactly how to set “MIDItoReaControlPath” to make the most of it, I wish there were a limiting number so I could set it to only the first 8 cc's...actually, maybe I can...I should get a piece of paper and try to understand the two midi paths as you have described them.

[pipelineaudio]

Ok, so it seems like, if I'm testing this right and understanding you right,

Control path goes to:
Learn
Actions
SWS Live Configs

Standard MIDI path goes to:
Parameter Modulation

I'm getting really confused in that it seems like I need the expression pedals to go to both the control path and the standard MIDI path

I definitely need them to be able to control actions, it has to, for example, pedal the wah (learn from control path, though I supposed I could do it in parameter modulation instead), and also has to turn on and off the wah (standard midi path)

[pipelineaudio]

I have tested with the settings spelled out in your guide and I think this is how it works out

https://i.imgur.com/wnTq90I.png

[pipelineaudio]

So if I want to get CC's from channel 1 both to the control path AND the standard path, what is the danger in setting MIDItoReaControlPath "Route to standard MIDI path" to "Matching 1 and 2"?

I would then program my pedalboard all on channel 1 to be PC buttons 1-4 and 6-10, and set pedal 5 to CC#5, pedal 10 to cc#10 and the expression pedals to CC#27 and CC#7

I'm still left with the problem of switching mixer presets in JS 8 channel Mixer with PC commands, but I suppose I could do that on channel 2?

[pipelineaudio]

Are the sws live configs saved per RPP?

[mschnell]

Control path goes to:
Learn
Actions
SWS Live Configs

Standard MIDI path goes to:
Parameter Modulation
And to the Midi inputs of the plugins
(Moreover there are many "Standard Midi streams" one in each track's FX chain, plus 16 "global" Midi Buses (of course each Stream with 16 Midi-channels).

In fact LiveConfigs seems to somehow use the "Action" mechanism.

I'm getting really confused in that it seems like I need the expression pedals to go to both the control path and the standard MIDI path
That (avoiding such confusion) is why I (and the Guide) suggest (for a not really simple setup) not to use the external input of the control Path ("control" checkbox in the Midi device), but to use a dedicated track with clean Midi input for such a controller, do all necessary preprocessing in JSFXes and then MidiToReaControlPath to send the appropriate messages to LiveConfigs.

Theoretically messages routed by MidiToReaControlPath also can be learned to actions, but I did not yet see any necessity to do that, as for parameter modulation, it usually is more versatile and more "clean" to route the midi messages to the audio track and have either the plugin digest such messages, use "Parameter modulation" or use ReaControlMidi to convert a midi message in a modulation source for a plugin.

I definitely need them to be able to control actions, it has to, for example, pedal the wah (learn from control path, though I supposed I could do it in parameter modulation instead), and also has to turn on and off the wah (standard midi path)
I don't see why it should not be possible to use the "parameter Modulation" instead of "learn" for this plugin parameter or - if it adheres to that just send the midi message to the plugin itself. Then you simply need to route the Midi to that track by standard reaper means.

I do this all the time.
My Live setup uses 64 instances of a JSFX that stores some 20 parameters (CC values) with potential parameters for any Patch. These parameters are sent to the track that is unmuted by LiveConfigs. Once running, these patch parameters can be modified by the sliders and rotaries on the controller. Moreover the Breath controller, Volume pedals, ... send live CC messages to the tracks. The CCs in the track go either directly to plugins that can internally learn them or are associated to Parameter Modulation or to ReaControlMidi to do it's stuff.

-Michael

[mschnell]

Are the sws live configs saved per RPP?
Yep.
-Michael

[mschnell]

Hi Pipe,

It was a great experience to work with you on this issue.

You have proven to be tough enough to really work on getting the things done that you want to make happen within Reaper, instead of complaining that Reaper does not provide exactly your kind of of requirement out of the box.

You took the place of a musician and an experienced Reaper user to complement my programmer's point of view, not giving up on my maybe sometimes overly sophisticated wording.

And you are competent enough to ask the right questions (even if I sometimes did not get your meaning right away).

Hence, based on this thread I'll be able updated the LiveConfigs User Guide with more useful and hopefully understandable information. When I have a new version I'll ask you to read it and suggest any improvement that comes in mind. Of course I'll be happy to include any additional suggestion you can come up with right now.

Thanks again,
-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

This is seriously the most exciting time fo me in audio technology since me Justin and Christophe first started talking about the viability of a possible new program called “REAPER “

Even back then I imagined it as a giant guitar rack someday, but the way presets worked made me a bit skeptical and I beeen in the middle of about ten years of not really playing guitar much anymore except to fix things on albums.

But today, it’s doing more than I could have imagined back then and I’m in a band now, perfect timing!

I would have given up trying this about 50 times already if you hadn’t stuck with me.

So it sounds like what I should be doing is having two live midi inputs, the one I have now for controlling live configs, and another for my cc pedals and expression pedals for controlling actions and fx parameters?

The second midi input could, if I’m looking at miditoreacontrolpath correctly, mimic the behavior you get by choosing enabled+input in prefs

It seems like I could leave everything on the same midi channel, chose channel 1, cc and set both sliders to matching 1&2. If it makes any trouble, I could run channel converter and set that stuff to channel 2

I’m trying to avoid having to do too much custom programming on the pedalboard, as it makes it difficult then to use the pedal with other devices. But resource use is also a big factor (I think, but so far not going near 5% cpu, but wanting to be paranoid safe)

Do you think there’s actually a way I could have thru Jsfx or something to have that first channel going to sws live configs ignore pc 5 and pc 10?

After that I’m mostly concentrating on figuring simple ways to switch series and parallel paths in and out thru actions, o parallel configs, perhaps by putting the first config in a folder and using that folder track as the input source for the second config


The possibilities are insane! Bob Bradshaw, seriously look out!!!!

[BenK-msx]

Hi dont wish to confuse matters but I find helgobosses realearn a more robust and tweakable alternative to miditoreacontrolpath -
It literally replaces it as a plugin.

I use it to make a dumb midi controller a bit cleverer

[pipelineaudio]

I saw that thing, maybe thats what I should be using, but for 12 switches I'd have to run 12 of them right? Would that hurt my audio throughput for a live application?

[pipelineaudio]

Sonoma Wireworks just sent this over to test out, I'll try and run SWS Live Configs from it as well, pretty awesome!
As their StudioJack Mini has become my main iOS interface, I have had a lot of time to test their software and hardware functionality and it passes with flying colors, I'd expect the same and more from this and will keep you posted.

This device has separate guitar and mic inputs, a 1/4" TRS headphone out and, get this

Two line outs on SEPARATE 1/4"s!

4 midi switches, plus an expression input
5 MIDI CC knobs for quickly adjusting gain and tone per program on the fly

Pass thru charging on a REAL 9v adapter (the regular 2.1mm jack you can find anywhere)

As this also has ASIO drivers, this to me is the Cadilac of iOS interfaces and will be no slouch for desktop/laptop duties as well. Very handy all in one package that I will be putting through its paces shortly

https://i.imgur.com/JcGWC4p.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/n6F1zLa.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/7u92ysz.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ORdZAav.jpg

[pipelineaudio]

Hi dont wish to confuse matters but I find helgobosses realearn a more robust and tweakable alternative to miditoreacontrolpath -
It literally replaces it as a plugin.

I use it to make a dumb midi controller a bit cleverer

HOLY CRAP this thing is powerful!!!!

How do I know if its going to standard path or control path?

It looks like it can pretty much handle anything I need, in one single instance, gonna geek out on it now

[pipelineaudio]

Ben, I dont see how to send ReaLearn to SWS Live Configs.

[BenK-msx]

Still setting it up since moved to Mac, but presuming its all control path unless you pass through to track.
I got it to tailor sensitivity of rotary encoders for parameter tweaks and can use a dumb button to create faux 'banks', is pretty comprehensive.

Glad if mention is a help.

Btw one of my uh 'vintage' honukele mics has a big ass AC hum, can you fix this in a reply !? :D

Going to open it up for a nose. Its sister is quiet btw.

Edit: re question above, I would have thought if in same 'place' as reacontrol path was it would be ok, not combined the two myself - maybe it's 100% control so via learn in live configs.
section?

Would need to look as guessing at mo.

[mschnell]

But resource use is also a big factor (I think, but so far not going near 5% cpu, but wanting to be paranoid safe)
The midi processing will never use up any noticeable CPU.
-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

Gack, let me look at the schematic, assuming no wire is loose.

Someone here went crazy and swapped out all the caps for panasonics and got rid of most of the circuit and did 1% everything. I swear I can't hear the difference, but it sure is easier to swap parts out that way

[pipelineaudio]

Aside from figuring out exactly how to get what MIDI I want where, my biggest issue with SWS Live Configs are the audio dropouts when switching, compared to SWS restore solo and mute states, which does instant switching.

If there's a way to deal with that, I would be in hog heaven

Gonna try a second midi track for the control stuff and see how it goes

[pipelineaudio]

Honestly, and I have to do more testing, but for my purposes, I'm not seeing a problem with setting both switches in midi to recontrol path to matching 1&2 and just having the 1 midi input track...if it makes trouble, I'll revisit, but for now, tons of testing to do!

[mschnell]

Aside from figuring out exactly how to get what MIDI I want where, my biggest issue with SWS Live Configs are the audio dropouts when switching, compared to SWS restore solo and mute states, which does instant switching.
Sorry. I don't understand your wording. As a result of what activity exactly do the said audio dropouts happen ?

(Of course you should avoid using hardware switches just to detect the value of a CC that is seen by the software, anyway. Do dance with the hogs !)

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

One of the dropouts is when changing rows, I guess rows is the right term for what would be the equivalent of a patch or preset on a Bradshaw board.

The fade knob on the top right can change it to longer dropout or shorter dropout, but shorter times glitch while still dropping out.

If I do the equivalent of rows, by switching mute groups using “ Sws restore mute and solo state of all tracks “” there is no dropout.

There is some sort of mute on row switching whether or not mute all but active track is checked in options. I think it’s the send but I can’t remember now

Ideally, I would rather have it crossfade between rows when switching

Switching fx presets specified on the row can of course take time just because of the plugins may take time.

Switching track fx chains certainly drops out.

Switching fx presets temporarily muted either the send or return to that track, I can’t remember which, not sure if switching fx chains does

Sws live configs is convenient to me mostly because it has the activate and deactivate actions, otherwise, Sws restore mute and solo state to all tracks seems much better and easier to deal with. I wish they could be combined benefits wise

[pipelineaudio]

Whats the difference between apply and preload configs?

[pipelineaudio]

I'm really starting to think I'd just love a spreadsheet similar to SWS Live configs, that simply allowed an action to (I think) exclusively select each row, and then have several columns of activate actions and several columns of deactivate actions

[mschnell]

"rows": The original Guide speaks of "configs for this, but tome this is rather ambiguous. I mostly think "lines", but "rows" (as in a spreadsheet" seems very appropriate.

There is some sort of mute on row switching whether or not mute all but active track is checked in options. I think it’s the send but I can’t remember now
Did you configure Reaper to stall muted tracks ? This is recommended in the LiveConfig Guide to save the CPU resources for these tracks. But maybe in your case it would be better to uncheck this.

-Michael

[mschnell]

Whats the difference between apply and preload configs?

I never found out what the "preload" thing is all about. But the name suggests that is has to do with switching latency/dropouts.

-Michael

[mschnell]

I'm really starting to think I'd just love a spreadsheet similar to SWS Live configs, that simply allowed an action to (I think) exclusively select each row, and then have several columns of activate actions and several columns of deactivate actions
If you configure LiveConfigs not to do the mute / unmute thing, it still fires an action on enter and leave. AFAIK, you can use an action to fire a couple of other actions with standard Reaper means.

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

That's true. It means I have to stick macros in there, but really, maybe that's not so bad

[pipelineaudio]

If we could make it so we can midi learn the rows, this would be so so so much better, I bet theres a way to finnaegle JS MIDI mapping stuff to make it work though

[mschnell]

That's true. It means I have to stick macros in there, but really, maybe that's not so bad
Nonetheless enhancing LiveConfigs to be able to fire multiple actions instead of a single one might be a good idea.

Another (IMHO) good idea to allow for enhanced functionality when entering a row, would be to be able to link multiple pages directly instead of needing to do that via assigning the appropriate action to row-enter.

And of course you have a point that allowing for (additionally) directly "learning" rows, instead of the fixed assignment of a row to the CC value, might come handy in certain situations. But OTOH this easily could be done by an especially tailored JSFX that accompanies a (hopefully some day provided in a comprehensive way via ReaPack) "LiveSetup" installation kit.

-Michael (I am considering to try to do some maintenance / programming work on LiveConfigs some day, hence collecting ideas.)

[pipelineaudio]

The real murder here is using cc values to do the rows, I mean its making me decide on not being able to use my pedalboard for other things, looking into piz's stuff for a way to switch that out

Learning the rows would be awesome. Picking rows in another config with the same command would be awesome, but I bet there's a way around that too

Still, I am happier with this setup than I have ever been in my life, so its just a matter of getting a bit more figured, but its awesome

[pipelineaudio]

Im thinking about setting my pedalboard up where bottom 5 rows are CC's and top 5 are PC's, then I can use it with my other gear fine. I can then, I guess, use 5 instances of piz's MidiConvert3 to turn the bottom 5 into PC's then use PC to CC converter, not sure how much stress that would put on everything

[mschnell]

The real murder here is using cc values to do the rows, I mean its making me decide on not being able to use my pedalboard for other things,

As said, this is easy by doing the conversion to a "flat" CC design in a JFX and send that to LiveConfigs by MidiToReaControlPath. (Disabling the Control Path in the Midi device.)

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

I don’t think I found a jsfx to convert say 5 cc#’s to five different values on the same cc#. I think I could with 5 of them, which may not actually be that bad cpu wise...they all seem to report back 0.0%

[mschnell]

I don’t think I found a jsfx to convert say 5 cc#’s to five different values on the same cc#.

As said this is easy to do. Of course I'll do it for you if you want me to.

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

Edit: oops, forgot the link

https://www.gigperformer.com/downloads.html

I'm giving this a try to see if it can handle the switching of presets without dropouts, and then I can use SWS Live Configs to switch actions...I'm looking to see if there are existing ways to do the PC to CC to individual values of the same CC # so you don't have to spend your time on such utilitarian stuff.

In order to use this same pedalboard to control my other gear, I'd love to leave it set up like this:

Switches 1-5 and switch 10 send CC's (I could use some means (JSFX, actions, some of piz's VST's whatever) to change these to PC messages if need be)

Switches 6-9 send PC's

Two expression pedals are sending CC's

Switches 1-4 and switches 6-9 call up patches, presets, whatever you want to call them
Switch 5 is tap tempo
Switch 10 pops a tuner up on the screen and mutes the output.

[pipelineaudio]

I am such a dumbass...

I can just program another bank on my pedalboard to control the other gear...forget all that noise, I can set a bank just perfect for how live configs wants

[pipelineaudio]

Ok, this is working pretty damn good like this! Wah's working right, switching time is instant...only minor quibble is the clack from muting/unmuting stuff, really would be better to have some crossfading, but whatever.

I'm doing 8 full tracks of FX, and the CPU isnt too bad, but if theyre all unmuted at once and muting receives instead, one of my plugins makes audio glitches over time.

With receives being what gets muted, you get a cool spillover, but that's ok

To save resources, I figured I'd really just have three basic soiunds and then switch fx in and out, but so far so good this way (and its MUCH less confusing!)

So I dont have any tracks in Live Configs, but I'm using it as a MIDI controllable spreadsheet to launch actions, which works great.

https://i.imgur.com/9lV3dTr.png

[pipelineaudio]

So here's tonestack's midi window which has some handy range limiting stuff. This is possible in an existing JSFX right?

https://i.imgur.com/AQwpWB0.jpg?1

[pipelineaudio]

Man I keep going up and down with this. I can do a version where it just uses actions, and doesnt use Live Configs for the routing, just for loading actions, and switching is instant.

But its a massive pain in the ass to change things

I want to switch loops in and out to save resources, as it is starting to click and pop now at under 5% cpu

If only i could get rid of the switching time of the SWS Live Configs.

I'm betting theres some way around it, I just cant think of what it is

[pipelineaudio]

ugh, I had a crash....confidence is flagging

Pretty sure its my harmonizer plugin, Pitchproof, but maybe not. Is there another free 64 bit harmonizer out there?

[pipelineaudio]

https://www.gigperformer.com/support.html

This thing does beautiful crossfades between patches, no dropouts at all

And switches loops in and out!

Lots of stuff I dont like but damn

[mschnell]

Reaper should be able to do the task and certainly is a lot more versatile, due to the ability to have complex script be used.

-Michael

[dhjdhj]

I'm one of the developers of Gig Performer. Would love to know what are the things you don't like about it.

Gig Performer 2 also has a scripting language built-in. It's proprietary and functionality is growing rapidly as users begin to experiment with it.

Take care.

[mschnell]

I did not say I don't like it. I did search for such kind of software some years ago, and if I would have found it I would have tried it (as I did with Forte, Bidule, Rack Performer, ..., which I did not like because of lack of versatility).

But as I am very happy with Reaper and rather fluent with it's scripting, routing, etc features, I just am positive that Reaper is very hard to beat regarding versatility. And I (seemingly successfully) tried to help Pipe to get up to speed with this.

OTOH, regarding ease of configuration, a dedicated software obviously might do a good job.

My argument is, that a musician who is inclined to do Live computer work "on stage", very likely also does recording, mixing, etc. Hence for multiple rather obvious reasons, it makes sense to use the same basic software for both tasks.

BTW.:
My Live setup (two master keyboards, a Breath controller, an XControl board with 9 Motor-faders and a lot of LED-equipped Rotaries and buttons, controlling a lot of VST(i) and an OSC based Rack Mixer) uses 64 instances of a JSFX that stores some 20 parameters (CC values) with potential parameters for any Patch. These parameters are sent to the track that is unmuted by LiveConfigs. Once running, these patch parameters can be modified by the sliders and rotaries on the controller. Moreover the Breath controller, Volume pedals, ... send live CC messages to the tracks. The CCs in the track go either directly to plugins that can internally learn them or are associated to Parameter Modulation or to ReaControlMidi to do it's stuff.


Michael

[pipelineaudio]

I figured how to make a parallel send to make a spillover delay too...man this is AMAZING...if it'll run live I am super crazy happy...my band is coming voer tonight, I'll see if I can swap it in place of my ipad. Just gotta find a windows tablet

[pipelineaudio]

I'm thinking about gutting one of these as its wireless works amazingly well

http://www.korg.com/us/products/computergear/nanokontrol_studio/

And its cheap!

Open it up, stick it inside the behringer pedalboard and go....but since we cant directly assign MIDI to the rows in SWS Live Configs, I might be stuck. Its got pre assigned CC's

[mschnell]

Nice.

But for Stage usage, it seems rather fiddly.

OTOH when tweaking parameters of multiple patches that can be alternately selected, Motor Faders seem like the way to go. That is why I decided to use an XControl Compact. I can highly recommend same for use in a Reaper "life" setup.

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfA35mJhTnX/?taken-by=pipelineaudio

Testing it out on a crappy craptop to see how far off the desktop's latency I'll have to go.

Could be the routing from the main audio input track, but for some reason I'm getting clicks and pops at much higher latencies thru the routing scheme I've got vs running the exact same chain on one track

I need to narrow that down somehow

[Dopameme]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but did anyone figure out how to fix the lag/audio dropouts when switching patches with live configs?

I am having the same issue. Thinking off switching to custom actions, but definitely not as convenient.

Cheers,

Ryan

[mschnell]

As LiveConfigs does switches and never activates multiple "patches" at the same time there will never be a "spill over", and this might be perceived as dropouts.

There is other tooling that allows for this (PipelineAudio and I worked on that many months ago: I created some JSFXes on his request). But setting up such a system is by far more complex that just using LiveConfigs.

Michael

[Dopameme]

As LiveConfigs does switches and never activates multiple "patches" at the same time there will never be a "spill over", and this might be perceived as dropouts.

There is other tooling that allows for this (PipelineAudio and I worked on that many months ago: I created some JSFXes on his request). But setting up such a system is by far more complex that just using LiveConfigs.

Michael

So after playing around a bit more, it seems that "Send all notes off when switching config" was the culprit. I'd love to try some other programs, however, being able to run Reaper as a portable program is a huge plus for me. I'd be interested to read more about Pipeline audio. What is its purpose and where can I learn more?

[mschnell]

PipelineAudio is a forum member (you mmight want to search for his posts to find out more about his solution). He created a setup for his Guitar that can be controlled by a footswitch and switches effect chains. He did so using several JSFX plugins, I created. Most important ReaPack -> MidiFadeX.

Same is controlled by Midi CC messages and fades signals (i.e. tracks) in and out, and mutes tracks when gone silent.
Other components are ReaPack -> "Mute or unmute Track X" and ReaPack -> Midi CC Table.
BTW I don't believe that LiveConfigs sends any Midi at all.

-Michael

[ymaresz]

I wrote one -> http://www.bschnell.de/LiveConfigs_1.pdf

You also might want to search the Forum for "LiveConfigs" to get a lot more information on that issue.

-Michael

Hello Michael
I can't download you pdf..
Do you still have it ?

Thanks
an

[mschnell]

???
I see it when clicking on the link you quote.
-Michael

[ymaresz]

oh yes indeed, it was a Brave browser issue.
All good

Thanks
Yan

[ymaresz]

Hello

I'm trying to set up a Live Config to switch synth presets and I have a issue with the "SWS/S&M: Trigger next preset for FX 1 of selected tracks" action.

I see the row configs being activated by the cc fine but the action is not triggered.
Double clicking on the row does not work either
Any advice ?

Also, I would need to use a keyboard note (like midi 108) to trigger "SWS/S&M: Live Config #1 - Apply next config".
I read in Michael manual about the "only last stable midi message" and the alternative to use "two note-One Midi message" but I'm confused about how to achive this.

Thank you..

Yan

[bobday]

There's a much longer delay when switching tracks thru live configs than when using sws mute group slots, not sure what I can do to fix this.


Try lowering the "Controller smoothing:" and/or "Tiny fade on config switch:" knobs at the top of the Live Configs window.


https://i.imgur.com/vRQjppw.png