Laptop for live use

[pipelineaudio]

I’m trying to substitute a windows device in place of the iPad in this type of setup
http://pipelineaudio.net/2018/01/30/ios-frfr-one-cable-setup/

The windows tablets I have found are very expensive for what you get, have few USB ports and generally run 2 core instead of 4 core i7’S. I see laptops that are cheap and powerful, but I have been searching and unable to find ways to hold them as conveniently as the tablets. Any ideas?

[EvilDragon]

Checked out Lenovo Yoga?

[pipelineaudio]

There’s a couple on Craigslist, but they are listed as two core and twice the price of a four core laptop of the same generation. The yoga looks like it would fit in the same tablet holder I have though.

[mschnell]

Wy do you want a laptop or tablet ?

I very happily use this -> https://www.mifcom.de/mini-pc-luefterlos-c3-core-i7-7700t-ssd-id3047

With no Monitor/mouse/keyboard attached "on Stage".

-Michael

[pipelineaudio]

For my stuff I definitely need a screen, but if a tablet maybe a pen would be ok instead of a mouse and keyboard. There’s a nice 15 inch for sale cheap but it seems so big

[pipelineaudio]

I have a choice between this one

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-IdeaPad-Y50-70-GTX-960M-FHD-Notebook-Review.145896.0.html

15" i7 4720HQ, which I think is much more powerful, though uses an older CPU, and I dont know how I'll fit it onto my FRFR rig

or this tablet, which would fit fine, seems newer but looks to be much less powerful

https://www.amazon.com/Dell-Inspiron-13-2-Laptop/dp/B01KGFSQAE

Any idea if there would be a big difference in low latency audio between the two?

[mschnell]

Any idea if there would be a big difference in low latency audio between the two?
Stating the obvious for possible lurkers, just to be clear:
Latency is something you set in your configuration and not directly depending on the computer hardware. The value you can set without risking dropouts / crackles / overheating depends on the computer hardware and the software you use.

Overheating can be avoided either by using a solid state heat sink (impossible with laptaps, or by using a noisy fan (which I hate).

-Michael

[serr]

Even if a tablet sported a powerful i7 CPU it would be constantly throttled down so that enclosed tablet didn't melt! You'll be very limited by a tablet.

Heck, my experience even with very high end laptops is that you still want to go over the heatsink assembly yourself for top performance.

Especially if you are doing live performance requiring low latency and want any headroom. You'll have an awful time with a heat throttling tablet.

Some of the portable stuff has come a long way and a tablet might do a lot of things. If you were just playing an iTunes playlist and making "DJ motions" no one would be the wiser. But actual performance? Get a laptop.

Or... It's a little more setup but a tower is more industrial that a laptop for on stage. A hurled beer bottle might put a slight scratch in the side of an old G5 tower whereas it would be a complete end of life event for a laptop.

[EvilDragon]

Throttling can be disabled.

https://www.techpowerup.com/download/techpowerup-throttlestop/

Or... It's a little more setup but a tower is more industrial that a laptop for on stage. A hurled beer bottle might put a slight scratch in the side of an old G5 tower whereas it would be a complete end of life event for a laptop.

Nope, some laptops are sturdier than you might think. Not in the Mac realm, though. :p

[pipelineaudio]

I never had trouble live with a windows laptop since 2008

But I’m asking a bit more from this than I ever did before, actusometh8ng that gets my older desktop to about 11% cpu, and just on the edge of rt longest block size

[pipelineaudio]

Has anyone actually seen any pages or videos of people running windows tablets live with guitars? Is the dell I linked like a tablet or laptop more?

It fits easily in my tablet holder on my amp, while I would need some other solution for the 15” laptop I linked

[mschnell]

Does it have a fan ?

Yes (more like a laptop): Noisy.
No (more loke a tablet) : Overheating danger.

-Michael

[EvilDragon]

Noisy fan is not really an important factor in a live setting...

[mschnell]

When I am practicing live playing just for myself in my tiny studio, yet it is. OK I could use headphones, but this is not always real fun.

Moreover the fan is the most likely breaking part of a PC. That is why I'd avoid it "on stage".

-Michael

[EvilDragon]

Fans are usually very sturdy, though. I haven't had a fan fail on me ever in 20 years of using various kinds of computers.

[pipelineaudio]

Looks like it has a fan.

The other computer is much more powerful though, I just can’t think of as handy a way to stick it in my FRFR setup as the tablet would. It’s too big to fit in that tablet arm mount holder thing. I see a few that may work, but not as convenient.

Decisions decisions

[serr]

Fans are usually very sturdy, though. I haven't had a fan fail on me ever in 20 years of using various kinds of computers.

Towers? Me either.
I went through 3 sets of fans on my last Macbook Pro. Much cheaper than logic boards and easy to swap out. Go ahead and abuse the fans in a laptop and treat them as a consumable. :)

[EvilDragon]

MBP, eh. :p

My Toshiba laptop is in its 8th year, never a single problem with its fan. Ever.

[karbomusic]

Fans are usually very sturdy, though. I haven't had a fan fail on me ever in 20 years of using various kinds of computers.

Speak for yourself :D I have had a few fail. 2 in PSUs and 1 in the case and 1 on a video card, maybe more.

Wait: Laptops, no fan problems there.

[serr]

MBP, eh. :p

My Toshiba laptop is in its 8th year, never a single problem with its fan. Ever.

Yeah, it's a "consumable" on these machines. I like everything else and the rest of the machine runs forever if you keep it cool. No argument they lose a few points for the fans here though.

Hmmm... I should start modding the fans on these.

[pipelineaudio]

Acco ding to the benchmarking sites, both oth these units should smoke the device I was testing on

I was using an hp laptop with an i5 2430m which is a 2 core sandy bridge at 2.4ghz with 4 gigs of ram

The dell 2 in 1 I’m looking at has an i7 6500u, which is a 2 core skylake at 2.5ghz with 8 gigs of ram

The Lenovo laptop I’m looking at is an i7 4720hq which is a 4 core haswell at 2.6ghz with 8 gigs of ram

Both of these units have ssds

The Lenovo seems to smoke the dell in every single way, but while the dell fits in my tablet holder on my FRFR setup, I have no idea how I would mount the laptop as conveniently on my alto ts210

Aside from the size issue and somehow we come up with an idea to mount the 15”: is there any reason I should pick the slower dell that I’m not thinking of? Maybe it’s newer architecture does something I want? The Lenovo is a gaming laptop with an nvidia gtx 960, so I’m assuming it’s more optimized for performance. The dell can fold into a touchscreen tablet for convenience, but if I can figure an easy way to mount the laptop, I’d rather have the trackpad anyway

[mschnell]

Speak for yourself :D I have had a few fail. 2 in PSUs and 1 in the case and 1 on a video card, maybe more.
So I would not use it on stage, if I can avoid it.

-Michael

[karbomusic]

So I would not use it on stage, if I can avoid it.

-Michael

Not sure what the point is since those are desktops, I have a single-core laptop from 2001 who's fan works fine and I can still track with it. So that's 17 years of fan not going bad. If you are holding on to the fan as a point of failure to be concerned about, I'd say that's quite unfounded.

[pipelineaudio]

Blowing my mind with how big the marketing claims about laptop guitar are and how much money is spent hyping it, its very hard for me to find pictures or videos of setups. The keyboard guys have them all day long, and its easy to see how they integrate them, but not so much for guitar

[EvilDragon]

That's because a LOT of guitar guys just solve their problems either with a Kemper or an Axe FX. Or a Helix, more recently.

[pipelineaudio]

None of those companies are spending crazy money on facebook ads for laptop guitar use though, they have an in the box, turnkey thing they are advertising

[mschnell]

Not sure what the point is since those are desktopsI don't see why laptop fans should be inherently better than others. On the contrary, they are smaller and need to turn faster so they are more due to deterioration. Just statistics.

Of course (similar to hard drives) there are industrial grade fans that cost more and will last longer, but not to be found in usual consumer equipment.

-Michael

[mschnell]

That's because a LOT of guitar guys just solve their problems either with a Kemper or an Axe FX. Or a Helix, more recently.
Maybe in the average, keyboard guys are more technically orientated.

Keyboard and some guitar guys used to use Receptor, but same seems not to be available any more.

That is why - using Reaper - I built a similarly "embedded" device for myself.

-Michael

[karbomusic]

I don't see why laptop fans should be inherently better than others. On the contrary, they are smaller and need to turn faster so they are more due to deterioration. Just statistics.


-Michael

There are a plethora of laptops out there audio wise not failing because of fans. It's an issue not worth wasting time over unless it for killing time in an audio forum. My desktop with fan issues ran *24/7* in a very hot machine for *years* before the fan failed, so it's not even comparable to a laptop running at gigs, practice and so on.

[karbomusic]

Maybe in the average, keyboard guys are more technically orientated.



All keyboard players are more technically oriented than all guitar players, second only to drummers. :D

[pipelineaudio]

well crap, a friend of a friend had a smoking deal on a monster of a laptop
i7 6700HQ, 24gigs of ram, SSD, with an nvidia 970GT

But its a $#^#&^$& 17 inch! I thought the 15" was going to be hard to place, but damn this thing is insane, my FRFR speaker barely makes 24".

Lets put our engineering heads together and come up with something.

I was thinking some hinges and rails from the hardware store might make a handy flip up support. I don't know

For live use on a laptop, I dont need wifi but I need my usb ports. What exactly does airplane mode do?

[pipelineaudio]

I'm thinking of putting all the goodies in a laptop bag, then running a power cable and a 1/4" to the FRFR speaker

[mschnell]

well crap, a friend of a friend had a smoking deal on a monster of a laptop

Fan failure and getting so hot that it emitted smoke ?!?!? Monstrous indeed !

Poor guy. :(

(AFAIK "airplian mode" temporarily deactivates wireless transmitters to comply with restrictions imposed to air travelers. )

-Michael

[EvilDragon]

Lets put our engineering heads together and come up with something.

I was thinking some hinges and rails from the hardware store might make a handy flip up support. I don't know

MacGyver in me says: velcro! :D

[g4greg]

I was thinking some hinges and rails from the hardware store might make a handy flip up support. I don't know

For live use on a laptop, I dont need wifi but I need my usb ports. What exactly does airplane mode do?


Does this help you in any way? Some of the stuff in there is pretty cheap and neat :)

I especially like the LPT 6000.. You could just clip that on your existing gear.

https://www.sweetwater.com/c1110--Laptop_Stands

[pipelineaudio]

All good ideas! I thought I set the record for velcro with that ipad setup, but hey, its cheap!

I got a laptop bag on order I'll see if that type of thinking works as well

[Stews]

That's because a LOT of guitar guys just solve their problems either with a Kemper or an Axe FX. Or a Helix, more recently.

Or an Amplifire :D