Master Limiter plugin for Reaper OS X?

[mrelwood]

This is too important to be buried in other threads.

I used a crazily good Tls Maximizer in all projects I made in Windows. No pumping, no distortion, just crazy amounts of RMS. Working on OS X now, I fight both distortion and pumping every time. Sometimes Loser's MGA_JSLimiter gives best results, sometimes SP1Limiter, sometimes Stillwell's Eventhorizon2, sometimes even the W1.

Limiting takes way too much time like this, since I must do the testing every time. I need a limiter that won't distort or pump. I need a Tls for Mac!

Any suggestions?

[LOSER]

This is too important to be buried in other threads.

I used a crazily good Tls Maximizer in all projects I made in Windows. No pumping, no distortion, just crazy amounts of RMS. Working on OS X now, I fight both distortion and pumping every time. Sometimes Loser's MGA_JSLimiter gives best results, sometimes SP1Limiter, sometimes Stillwell's Eventhorizon2, sometimes even the W1.

Limiting takes way too much time like this, since I must do the testing every time. I need a limiter that won't distort or pump. I need a Tls for Mac!

Any suggestions?

What's wrong with the JS:MGA_JSLimiter? Maybe it can be fixed.

[mrelwood]

What's wrong with the JS:MGA_JSLimiter? Maybe it can be fixed.

It is becoming my favourite of the bunch, but it starts pumping quite soon losing the openness and pure RMS that I get and like in Eventhorizon2 or SP1. The openness comes with a price, they are prone to distortion. But even with a release within 0 to 20ms the MGA likes to pump.

Are you familiar with the Tls Maximizer or Tls Pocket Limiter?

EDIT:
I just noticed that there are LOSER SP3 and SP7 limiters available in Reaper for Windows. Must test more closely for the distortion, but for the RMS, openness and transients, these are incredible! More effective than the all-time favourite Tls Maximizer.

When SP3 or SP7 is available for Mac, this thread might be completely useless! Any plans on the Mac translation?

[LOSER]

It is becoming my favourite of the bunch, but it starts pumping quite soon losing the openness and pure RMS that I get and like in Eventhorizon2 or SP1. The openness comes with a price, they are prone to distortion. But even with a release within 0 to 20ms the MGA likes to pump.


Yeah, that's the problem with limiters. Just let me run down the difference between those 3.
The MGA_JSLimiter was made to be absolutely distortion free, so it got a absolute steady (maybe to absolute) and slow responding envelope follower, so each spike is going to be recognized, and gain reduction sets in. This can yield quite noticeable pumping when you use it on material with quick transients.
The Eventhorizon is right on the other side of the spectrum, it's a clipper. Which means it only reacts instantaneously and only clipping of the top of the waveform where it goes over the threshold. While this is good for short transients like drums, since it doesn't give you any pumping, it is really bad for other (more softer) material like violin since clipping the waveform introduces distortion, which isn't noticeable on short transient bursts (like a snare hit) but gets pretty annoying on a bowed long violin note.
The SP Limiter are sort of a hybrid, they clip the signal to some extend and if further (too much) gain reduction is needed (so clipping alone won't cut it) it starts to use a normal VCA scheme to reduce the peak level of the signal.

Maybe I can come up with a new better JS Limiter one day, that will automatically decide if it encounters a transient (clipping) or a steady tone (vca), until then I fear you have to use different tools for different material.


Are you familiar with the Tls Maximizer or Tls Pocket Limiter?


I checked them out once, but I remember I didn't like them that much. Though I have to admit I don't like anything. Not even my own stuff, I only partially like it, since I know exactly what it does and what button to push to perform in a specific way (and I can always tweak the source code to make it fit my needs ;)).

[QUOTE=mrelwood;235704
When SP3 or SP7 is available for Mac, this thread might be completely useless! Any plans on the Mac translation?[/QUOTE]

Well since I don't have a Mac and no intention to buy one in the near future, I don't think it will happen too soon.

[mrelwood]

The MGA_JSLimiter was made to be absolutely distortion free, ...

The Eventhorizon is right on the other side of the spectrum, it's a clipper. ...

The SP Limiter are sort of a hybrid, ...

Thanks for the marvellous lesson! This explains my experiences very precisely. Eventhorizon was terrible on distorted guitars, it created a very nasty sizzling edge on them even at 1dB reduction. After the explanation it is no wonder, as isn't the fact that I like SP's the most.

Shouldn't it be popular to have a slider for the behaviour, from clean limiting to clipping? The Tls Maximizer has a soft-hard slider that seems to work a bit like that. I guess that's why it served all material well.

Maybe I can come up with a new better JS Limiter one day, that will automatically decide if it encounters a transient (clipping) or a steady tone (vca) ...

That would be an astonishing limiter, I'm sure! I hope that will come to life. If Waves doesn't get to you before you release it for us... :oP

Well since I don't have a Mac and no intention to buy one in the near future, I don't think it will happen too soon.

I understand. Has someone else converted the existing LOSER plugins to a Mac?

By the way, is there a limiter you specifically like?

EDIT:
I just realized, the Loser plugins available for mac are JS only, no VST. The SP3 and SP7 were Win VST's. I guess it is not possible to reach quite the same goals within JS than it is in VST?

[rcane]

Have you tried the yohng w1 limiter? I'm liking it.

www.yohng.com/w1limit.html

[mrelwood]

Have you tried the yohng w1 limiter? I'm liking it.

Yes, as mentioned in the first post. I find it lacking a lot in performance, as I found L1, so I guess it is a good clone.

I made a comparison, a short clip limited with different limiters. I made it in Windows due to the larger number of available limiters. This is (obviously) from the heaviest genre of jobs I get. I used each limiter a bit above the usable maximum, to show how they behave when driven too hard:

http://teuvvo.wippiespace.com/limiter_test/

Needless to say, Tls Maximizer is my favourite. Although, this mastering was made with the Tls Maximizer, so the same processing doesn't necessarily work as well with other limiters.

Edit: Added 256kbps mp3's to the test.

[narcossintese]

@mrelwood:
I´ve sent you a PM the other day about this thread but as you probably didn´t read it I decided to bump it.

I would like to know your decision about the best limiter, and which settings did you use with TLs Maximizer and Pocket Limiter. I find TLs Maximizer hard to understand as it does not have a manual, so I´m lost with some features. And is Pocket Limiter suitable on the master bus?

Actually I´m on a PC, and I´m between TLs Maximizer, TLs Pocket Limiter, Voxengo Elephant (not free) and the Reaper ones. You clearly have a better ear than me on limiters so I would like to know your input about it.

ps: awesome mix on the last post.

[Bubbagump]

EH2 (the VST) has been my go to for a while. Elephant is quite good as is the IK Multimedia Brickwall limiter (not their clipper. Two very similar plugs, but very different on the inside).

[mrelwood]

@mrelwood:
I´ve sent you a PM the other day about this thread but as you probably didn´t read it I decided to bump it.

Indeed, didn't read it until now. I shall reply here, since it might help others too.

I use a Mac nowadays, so I haven't used TLs products for quite a while. What I remember is that the Maximizer was crazy good for both slight and insane RMS boosts. The included EQ was great for fast freq dependent squeezing.

The thing I end up against every time is the fact that different sources require different tools, in limiters also. I use the included masterLimiter the most, often preceeded with ZeroCrossingMaximizer. But for classically oriented tracks I often end up with MGA_JSLimiter. For drum busses I'd try soft_clipper and SP1LimiterJS first.

Since the result is different, and wrong combinations will create nasty artifacts (distortion and "sparks"), one really has to have proper monitoring and a reasonable room for making decisions on using master limiter.

If you don't hear the difference or the artifacts, I would only use masterLimiter (or Loser's SP3 or SP7), and for very slight reductions. Like 1 dB.

[robertpaulelliott]

Have you tried the yohng w1 limiter? I'm liking it.

www.yohng.com/w1limit.html

wow, this is astonishing?!? Have I underestimated limiters all this time?

I just used it on a professional voice over I recorded and it sounds amazing! Even with over 20dB gain???

[narcossintese]

Thank you very much for the answer!