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timmeh_fz3
09-18-2006, 01:05 AM
http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/timmeh/testify3.mp3
[edit] no longer up - now it's: http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/timmeh/testify7.mp3
This is a dry mixdown of the first live band recording I've done with the new Phonic board/interface, and I have to say things went well, and I was really stoked to have all top notch guys on the session. This features the very intelligent and progressive rhymes / poetry of Shariff Simmons. (http://www.ebonyenergytalentnetwork.com/shariffsimmons.htm) The players are Jesse Diego Suttle on drums and vocals, Caldwell Mackin on bass guitar, and Carlos Piņo on guitar. Engineered by the timmeh. Tracked and mixed in Reaper.

cheers,
timmeh

timmeh_fz3
09-18-2006, 01:12 PM
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Justin
09-18-2006, 01:27 PM
awesome, diggin the drums..

Art Evans
09-19-2006, 07:05 AM
Downloading now.... so you are still happy with the Phonic/Reaper combination?

timmeh_fz3
09-19-2006, 01:07 PM
Downloading now.... so you are still happy with the Phonic/Reaper combination?

Very!

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[how do you get around this 'message too short' thing?]

Christophe
09-19-2006, 05:04 PM
I personally would like to know more about how you recorded and engineered/mixed those drums to get this nice sound :)

-Christophe

Art Evans
09-19-2006, 08:06 PM
The sound would be nicer if it wasn't in mono but I imagine that's because it's a work in progress. Even I as a classical engineer enjoyed it though!

timmeh_fz3
09-19-2006, 08:44 PM
The sound would be nicer if it wasn't in mono but I imagine that's because it's a work in progress. Even I as a classical engineer enjoyed it though!

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.

It is a work in progress.....

However, when you say 'mono,' it sounds like you're saying that it's got a single channel of audio playback, and of course that's not the case - it's in stereo. Do you just mean you wish it had more panning effects?

timmeh_fz3
09-19-2006, 08:55 PM
I personally would like to know more about how you recorded and engineered/mixed those drums to get this nice sound :)

-Christophe

a minimal micing config was used on the drums; an SM57 on the snare, Beta52 on the kick, a StudioProjects C1 as an overhead, and another C1 in front, to make it more Bonhamesque :). The 4 signals get zapped by a Behringer Multicom 4 channel comp/lim/gate via the Phonic inserts before they get into the system. Mainly the Multicom keeps things from getting above 0dB, brings the quiet stuff up, and pushes the noise floor down.

Lots of software compression was used in the drum folder track in Reaper, per the drummer's request, to purposely get a crunchy, strident sound. Which I think suits the song.

timmeh_fz3
09-20-2006, 02:32 AM
Here it is again, tweaked just a bit:

http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/timmeh/testify7.mp3

malcolmj
09-20-2006, 04:24 AM
Nice track. Reminded me of Living Colour. :)

timmeh_fz3
09-20-2006, 05:21 AM
thanks malcomj! :)

rollthebones
09-21-2006, 01:13 AM
Here it is again, tweaked just a bit:

http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/timmeh/testify7.mp3

Guitar is kind of muddy. I think you should bring it out front a little more, if possible. Perhaps a little EQ on it, too.

timmeh_fz3
09-21-2006, 03:29 AM
Guitar is kind of muddy. I think you should bring it out front a little more, if possible. Perhaps a little EQ on it, too.

[edit] Hopefully since I remixed this, expanded the stereo image has helped bring the guitar out more.

Art Evans
09-21-2006, 08:04 PM
However, when you say 'mono,' it sounds like you're saying that it's got a single channel of audio playback, and of course that's not the case - it's in stereo. Do you just mean you wish it had more panning effects?

Switching to mono when playing the track I find the difference to be almost indistiguishable from stereo. The "C_Superstereo" vst plugin width analysis display shows an almost vertical line and the phase meter knocks around single figures most of the time with a max of 25 degrees very occasionally. Typically you should see 45 to 100 degrees of stereo, comparing other material. Having it this narrow does make the balance of the mix more difficult - the ear can only separate the instruments by frequency and level and not by position. It would of course be fine for AM radio!

(I'm finding it hard to find C_Superstereo on the net and Inspector has of course gone.... any other suggestions for a stereo width / phase display?)

Art Evans
09-21-2006, 09:01 PM
Here you go - http://www.uk-music.de/gonio.html - gonio3 - download and install that and try commercial mixes and your own through it.

timmeh_fz3
09-21-2006, 10:10 PM
Switching to mono when playing the track I find the difference to be almost indistiguishable from stereo. The "C_Superstereo" vst plugin width analysis display shows an almost vertical line and the phase meter knocks around single figures most of the time with a max of 25 degrees very occasionally. Typically you should see 45 to 100 degrees of stereo, comparing other material. Having it this narrow does make the balance of the mix more difficult - the ear can only separate the instruments by frequency and level and not by position. It would of course be fine for AM radio!

(I'm finding it hard to find C_Superstereo on the net and Inspector has of course gone.... any other suggestions for a stereo width / phase display?)

Are you suggesting that I put the guitar on one side, bass on another, etc?

[edit] I pulled the mixdown up in Wavelab, there's a phase scope, and the image is super narrow, compared to a track off Electric Ladyland (lol). 'K, I'll mess with it.

cheers,
timmeh

NP: Gotta Move - The Kinks

Art Evans
09-21-2006, 11:40 PM
Funny you should mention Ladyland, I was actually looking for a Hendrix track to compare with myself!

Spread the drums a bit. Maybe the guitar a bit one side, bass to the other (though low frequencies tend to self-centre), leave vocal in the middle as that's the convention, etc etc

At risk of causing offence, http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx/.2ccd2a3c/0 is short and to the point on mixing with the emphasis on spacial placement.

timmeh_fz3
09-21-2006, 11:58 PM
'K, check it out;

http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/timmeh/testify9.mp3

cheers,
timmeh

timmeh_fz3
09-22-2006, 01:00 AM
At risk of causing offence, http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx/.2ccd2a3c/0 is short and to the point on mixing with the emphasis on spacial placement.

lol, I followed the link but got a login page at the Adobe user forums....in my imagination, the article states something along these lines: "...So; you want to make recordings, eh n00b? Well, do us all a favor and don't, you lowlife piece of crap." LOL :)

Art Evans
09-22-2006, 02:03 AM
Ah... ok, try it at http://www.audiomastersforum.net/amforum/viewtopic.php?t=31 which actually quotes the stuff I was pointing to, second post in the thread. I seem to be able to get it there without logging in.

I've just been listening to the new mix and for me it really comes alive now! But perhaps you've overdone it - I don't know how many mics you had on the drums but if you can, try panning them right the way across (or a bit less) from left to right. The drums are the only instrument in this that has natural width, so if you can, make them wide - they seem to be a bit generally right of centre at present. (Rechecking on speakers rather than cans I'm starting to think I'm wrong on that - they sound wider already). Everything else is a "point source" and only by using stereo reverb or chorus-type FX can you give them much of an added width (and I like it tight & dry & real like you've got it). Maybe the bass and guitar at like 45 degrees rather than full right and left (actually the guitar is probably already at about that point, but the bass is too far across perhaps).

But hey, what do I know?! I'm more into string quartets! But I do rather like this. A comparative track would be 'Foxy Lady' I guess, but the version I have just been listening to probably was a remix from a version not intended for stereo, so the vocal is actually extreme left & right and the rest in the middle - a bit weird. But some interesting effects on the voice. Some sparing "freaky" effects on some elements of your song might work hear and there.

Edit - more guitar still?

Edit 2 - oops, you've said above exactly how you did the drums! Mrs Evans has just been in here digging it too! Nice one!!

timmeh_fz3
09-22-2006, 02:49 AM
Hey Art - Seriously, I really appreciate your input here. I felt there was something lacking and the stereo spread was what it was. While I was reading your replies I stuck some cans on and listened to some audio, the afore mentioned Hendrix, and a live recording someone made of me playing with a blues band at a festival a couple of years ago, and even the rather primitive live recording seemed to have more natural detail than my mix...for some reason, it just hadn't occured to me to shift the elements around....but when I did, the mix really brightened up. :) also, I was able to bring the bass up a tiny bit, which I think was really needed - there just wasn't anywhere to put it before!

cheers,
timmeh

fluffy
10-01-2006, 11:21 AM
I know I'm a little late to the game, but this song is SERIOULY hot. The guitar playing is really great. That drummer is hot stuff, too.

LOSER
10-17-2006, 07:00 AM
I know I'm a little late to the game.


Hope the game isn't over yet :)

So I'm really digging this shit. But I also noticed that it is somehow muddy :(.

I attached the JS-FX chain I did a little remaster with.
You may want to bypass scott's eventhorizen (if you don't like it) and unbypass the 2nd EQ, if you like.
Hope you like my "remaster".

"Yeah Boi!" :)

P.S. Just remove the .txt extension and change it to .RfxChain.

timmeh_fz3
10-18-2006, 06:38 PM
P.S. Just remove the .txt extension and change it to .RfxChain.

Cool, thanks LOSER, I'll check it out!

cheers,
timmeh

JDBoone
10-20-2006, 01:36 PM
Hey man. Sounds good. Any chance you could send me the mix and let me mess with it a bit?

Jason Brian Merrill
04-06-2007, 09:33 AM
link doesnt work anymore?