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View Full Version : sending MIDI clock without SPP?


no-fi
10-28-2009, 04:48 AM
hey all.

I'm having a few issues running a looped section in reaper.

I'm running midi clock to a kenton pro 2000, and wanting to use the dinsync out from that to run an MSQ700.

Anyway - I'm getting the thing to run every second loop. (ie every second run through the reaper loop, my dinsync gear fires up, the other ones it remains silent)

I suspect there's an issue with the way reaper bundles SPP in with midi clock. I have absolutely no need for SPP whatsoever. So - is there any way to disable generation of SPP messages when I want to use MIDI clock? All I need to be running happily is a steady stream of midi clock messages in time with my reaper project at 24ppqn.


(apart from this frustrating thing, I'm really impressed with reaper - so impressed I bought a home license the other day)

thanks!

stupeT
10-28-2009, 05:10 AM
Well, if you want to run synced loops I guess you need SPP. At the end of the loop the song must be positioned to the beginning of the loop. No?

no-fi
10-29-2009, 12:51 AM
absolutely not.

MSQ-700 is a very simple sequencer that can have sequences that are an arbitrary number of bars long, and I set a switch for it to loop all by itself at the end of its sequence.

So I need 24ppqn midi clock messages at the tempo of my daw, to generate the dinsync signals to get my looping sequencer to run along at the same speed. And I need start, stop, and possibly continue messages when I operate my daw transport. that's it.

Even if I was running this sequencer directly off MIDI clock the actual bar position of the cursor in the daw is irrelevant to my looping sequencer (as long as I start them both on a bar line...)


if I wanted absolute song position with my clock to drive a sequencer, I'd go for midi time code. I don't want song position, so I use midi clock. SPP is irrelevant to this, and something here seems to be causing problems with stopping my sequencer every 2nd loop. I'm assuming it's the SPP messages.

so - is there any way to disable the generation of SPP messages?



thanks.

Fabian
04-14-2010, 06:06 AM
I've been thinking of putting in a request for this...

Is there any way to turn off the SPP and only have Reaper send the MIDI clock?

My old MIDI drum machine (Korg DDD-1) does not work well with SPP (at least I think that's the problem), when I try to synch it to Reaper. It crashes randomly and totally resets itself after some start/stops. The drum machine can take the MIDI clock from my old Ensoniq ESQ-1 synth, though.

So... a way to turn off SPP would be great...

no-fi
04-14-2010, 06:39 AM
heh... I was just thinking about this very issue with reaper again today.. wondering if it had been resolved yet and if anyone else had noticed any strangeness here, and here you are posting in my old thread....

but yeah... I haven't been using reaper much because of this issue, but I do poke my head in, update the program and test it from time to time.

I did a little loopback into midiox and it seems that when running a loop in the reaper timeline, it not only sends an SPP message, but a stop message just before and then continue message right after the SPP message on the loop point...

All other DAWs I've seen seem to just keep on sending straight clock while looping (as you'd expect for a simple MIDI clock sync setup)

Reaper's implementation with stop, SPP and continue seems to be using midi clock and SPP to try and mimic MIDI timecode, which is a very different thing to MIDI clock.. so if reaper's developers do actually want that kind of functionality for some people, it'd be nice to just have the option for plain old normal midi clock ticks (and start/stop/continue messages only with the transport buttons) for those of us with gear that the current method disturbs...

I'd really appreciate if this disabling of SPP and stop/continue on looping could be made a feature request.

no-fi
04-14-2010, 06:59 AM
I think the first issue to work out is does this count as:

1) a feature request (ie add another option to the program)

2) or a nitpick request (ie what reaper does right now when looping a section of timeline and outputting midi clock, is not actually right)

Fabian
04-14-2010, 07:02 AM
heh... I was just thinking about this very issue with reaper again today.. wondering if it had been resolved yet and if anyone else had noticed any strangeness here, and here you are posting in my old thread....

You know... great minds think alike :)

it'd be nice to just have the option for plain old normal midi clock ticks (and start/stop/continue messages only with the transport buttons) for those of us with gear that the current method disturbs...


Exactly.

I'd really appreciate if this disabling of SPP and stop/continue on looping could be made a feature request.

Please put it in the tracker. You'll have my vote.

no-fi
04-22-2010, 06:06 AM
ok... I think this is up....

http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=2358

no-fi
05-03-2010, 05:53 AM
well the other day I had a look through the archives, there's actually a bunch of other people who have reported the same basic problem with the way reaper treats midi clock while looping. And this massive deal breaker problem (for anyone who wants to work heavily with external sequencers) hasn't been addressed for years.

it's looking more and more like I wasted my registration money on reaper here, because as is I can't use reaper how I like to work. oh well... a big shame that something so simple was gotten so wrong, because everything else in reaper is nice.

I guess this is the problem with modern daws. older daws like cubase were originally written to use with MIDI gear, including other sequencers, so they got that stuff right... modern daws seem like they are written to host plugins.

Blechi
05-03-2010, 07:07 AM
Hi,

maybe this one (http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=43606) solves your problem.

hth
Blechi

no-fi
05-04-2010, 06:23 AM
hey thanks for the suggestion, but unfortunately MTC is not going to help me.....

I don't want my mpc having its loop points controlled by reaper when reaper is looping.. just want them to loop along on their own loop points, but at the same tempo.

and my midi to dinsync converters need midi clock, too.

no-fi
06-12-2010, 01:16 AM
Hey Blechi - I just had a thought that while it's not what I want in itself, maybe I could try and use this as a starting point to generate my own midi clock data.....

Though I'm having a hell of a time just getting this plugin you linked to even be seen in reaper...

I tried saving it with and without the txt extension, and put it in the JS folder (a few different subfolders and the JS one) and no matter if I get reaper to search its folders for new plugins or if I actually close reaper and restart, it seems reaper just won't recognise it and let me load it up to play with it so I can start to work out how it works.....


...and any searching I can think of for adding a new JS to reaper just comes up with a page of useless info. can't find instructions by searching in the user guide either.

any chance someone can point me to what I need to do for such a simple task??

Fabian
06-12-2010, 01:25 AM
I tried saving it with and without the txt extension, and put it in the JS folder (a few different subfolders and the JS one)

[...]

any chance someone can point me to what I need to do for such a simple task??

See here: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=56321

no-fi
06-12-2010, 02:19 AM
aaah, got it! plugin discovered and loaded.

thanks for that - would never have thought that the ones I found in the reaper program files directory weren't the right ones...

no-fi
06-18-2010, 06:34 AM
OK, got something that seems basically working with my mpc3000... a bit more testing and I will release it.

finally - reaper looks like it's going to be actually usable with my old hardware sequencers, and I can move up from having live as my only daw! yay!

Subz
07-01-2010, 08:42 PM
OK, got something that seems basically working with my mpc3000... a bit more testing and I will release it.

finally - reaper looks like it's going to be actually usable with my old hardware sequencers, and I can move up from having live as my only daw! yay!

??????????????????

i have big need for this please?

i can help test if you wish? :)

Subz

no-fi
07-01-2010, 08:57 PM
hey - sure thing!

I have been a bit sidetracked with other stuff lately, but have the basic thing working. I haven't really tried testing it with heavy MIDI loads yet though.

I might post it up in my JS thread, and link to that from here when it's done.

no-fi
07-02-2010, 01:50 AM
here goes.

if you can let me know what you're using with it, and how it's working for you that would be great....

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=538046#post538046

Subz
07-02-2010, 04:28 AM
here goes.

if you can let me know what you're using with it, and how it's working for you that would be great....

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=538046#post538046

thanks for sharing :)

well this js FX will loop nicely :) (timing stays the same with each loop :) )

But... :(

timing is different depending on weather i'm recording from start/stop (midi lands after the bar) or Punch in record (press record during playback) (midi lands before the bar)

in this screen shot the top line of midi was recorded from stop & the one below was a punch in recording during playback

http://img695.**************/img695/9945/mpcv.png

& as you can see none of it is on time with the beats & bars of the project,

is there any way to add a delay/advance to the plugin?

then i could have two presets synced to record from stop & punch in record :D

but at the end of the day there is something very wrong with reapers midi out! :o

thanks for your efforts with this plugin :D

Subz

Subz
07-02-2010, 06:13 AM
PS, if i ignore the offset & only record from stop then this plugin works quite well :) (way better than using the slandered Reaper timecode)

Thank you very much for this!!! :)

just need to get it to sync a tiny bit earlier than i can find something else to worry about lol :)

as a way of saying thanks http://sites.google.com/site/djsubject/MPCtesterNewJSPlug.mp3 :D

Subz

Fabian
07-14-2010, 03:07 PM
here goes.

if you can let me know what you're using with it, and how it's working for you that would be great....

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=538046#post538046

Using it with Reaper 3.63 and my vintage Korg DDD-1 drum machine. Seems to work great, but... whatever I set Reapers BPM to, I get the same BPM on the drum machine (DDD1 reports 120 BPM). Is this as it should be?

EDIT: My bad... I can set the tempo on the drum machine, and it will play in that tempo when reaper plays. But is that as it should be? I would've thought that the tempo should depended on the clock...

Never mind truly user error here... Of course I have to set the machine to "MIDI clock" for this to work as I expect it to. Now it follows the tempo decided by Reaper. Seems to work great! Thanks