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malcolmj
01-31-2007, 05:31 AM
I am having issues in 1.73 with held notes and the first beat of a recording missing after using the "count-in before recording" function. If possible I'd like someone else to confirm the problems before I log it as a bug.

Does anyone else here own the Atmosphere synth from Spectrasonics?

Cheers,

Malcolm.

EDIT: Don't worry, I'm pretty sure it's a bug. Logged.

Jason Brian Merrill
01-31-2007, 12:24 PM
I have atmosphere, could you give me an .rpp that exhibits this problem?

EDIT: I am also having problems recording on the first beat. perhaps some sort of pre roll quantize etc would help this?

Justin
01-31-2007, 02:55 PM
I am having issues in 1.73 with held notes and the first beat of a recording missing after using the "count-in before recording" function. If possible I'd like someone else to confirm the problems before I log it as a bug.

Does anyone else here own the Atmosphere synth from Spectrasonics?

Cheers,

Malcolm.

EDIT: Don't worry, I'm pretty sure it's a bug. Logged.


Does spectrasonics have latency (i.e. does reaper show it as having latency in the fx chain window)?

-Justin

Dstruct
01-31-2007, 03:18 PM
i highly doubt that it has latency. at least i never saw a vsti which reports any latency >0 ...

Jason Brian Merrill
01-31-2007, 04:16 PM
the UVI engine (that USB plugs and Spectrasonics' plugs use) is well known to have issues with latency, mostly within FLstudio.

this is the fix for FLstudio, perhaps try to use it for reaper?

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/11288/spectra-fix.zip

Justin
01-31-2007, 04:54 PM
the UVI engine (that USB plugs and Spectrasonics' plugs use) is well known to have issues with latency, mostly within FLstudio.

this is the fix for FLstudio, perhaps try to use it for reaper?

http://stash.reaper.fm/oldsb/11288/spectra-fix.zip

So is it the case that it does show latency, jason?

Jason Brian Merrill
01-31-2007, 04:56 PM
well, all i know is there was a problem with latency with FL studio ---

i dont know the technical details although i could look it up on looptalk.

it is a problem with the UVI engines and this issue is apparent in other hosts as well, but not as bad as FL, for some reason.

During realtime playback, its fine, but when you render, it has a noticable delay. I will see if i can get more details on it.

there is a txt file in the zip that talks a bit about the issue.

it may or MAY NOT be applicaable to reaper. will look over in looptalk now.

Justin
01-31-2007, 04:57 PM
just load it in reaper and see if it shows it in the fx chain.. ie.. 0%/0% CPU 1024/1024 spls

well, all i know is there was a problem with latency with FL studio ---

i dont know the technical details although i could look it up on looptalk.

it is a problem with the UVI engines and this issue is apparent in other hosts as well, but not as bad as FL, for some reason.

During realtime playback, its fine, but when you render, it has a noticable delay. I will see if i can get more details on it.

there is a txt file in the zip that talks a bit about the issue.

it may or MAY NOT be applicaable to reaper. will look over in looptalk now.

Jason Brian Merrill
01-31-2007, 05:01 PM
Of course there is still a delay - you sampleslide can't make time run backwards.

Basically the problem is that Atmosphere, trilogy and stylus all appear to have a 2046 delay (why not 2048 I don't know). Except in the first bar of an export, where the delay is not 2046 samples - so you should insert some space at the beginning of the render.


reflex wrote :


but the bottom line is that the VSTis and DXis that accept automation at all do so via MIDI, agreed?

No, it's (almost) like Pete says. There's automation via MIDI and there's automation via parameters (mostly for VST plugins).[q

However, unlike what Pete says, getChunk/setChunk usage by a plugin (in the case of a VST plugin) has nothing to do with its ability to have real parameters.


513 samples for the first beat
2049 samples for all subsequent beats (which is pretty poor timing!!).

its reporting 0/0spls in reaper as far as delay.

Jason Brian Merrill
01-31-2007, 05:43 PM
I think it had to do with the fixed size buffers, the UVI engine doesn`t have the appropriate support for variable buffer chunks...

VST allows the buffer size to change between process() calls. The UVI plugins assume that they will not change and will be constant sized. If I recall correctly.

.............................

eMaRe
01-31-2007, 07:56 PM
To add to the confusion, I have experienced a few crashes of Reaper using Atmosphere. Mostly when a few notes are on and I start tweaking settings. Too bad, it sounds great otherwise.

Jason Brian Merrill
02-01-2007, 01:17 AM
The UVI engine uses buffers that have the same size as the "block size" reported by the host. In FL and most other hosts, this block size is the size of the soundcard buffer.

Because this block size is usually a lot bigger than the size of the buffers used for processing, this introduces a large latency.


.............

malcolmj
02-01-2007, 04:56 AM
Does spectrasonics have latency (i.e. does reaper show it as having latency in the fx chain window)?

-Justin

Hi Justin,

No, it reports no latency. There are two issues I am having. The first relates to the zero-length notes as reported here:

http://www.cockos.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5267

and the second was the held notes. On further testing it looks like the held notes only occur with patches that have a long attack time. In the original case it was a string patch. I have tested quite a few of the other patches now that don't have long attack times and they seem to work fine.

One thing I've always noticed with Atmosphere and REAPER is whenever I switch from playback to record I get a burst of held notes, as if the MIDI buffer is not clearing. It's repeatable every time.

The other disturbing thing I have found with Atmosphere is that I am unable to record the first note of the the first beat when using the "Count in before recording" metronome option. This is very similar to the problem that Keyman Sam described in his thread, so maybe there is an issue with particular VSTi's.

Let me know if there's any testing I can do to try and sort this one out.

Cheers,

Malcolm.

Jason Brian Merrill
02-01-2007, 05:03 AM
. This is very similar to the problem that Keyman Sam described in his thread, so maybe there is an issue with particular VSTi's..
I was thinking something similar.

You mention it reports no latency, but according to that post by reflex, there IS latency.

malcolmj
02-01-2007, 05:51 AM
You mention it reports no latency, but according to that post by reflex, there IS latency.

I think the thread at Looptalk describes what might be causing the "held buffers" issue I was describing.

The latency Justin was referring to was delay in the actual audio signal. I've never experienced any delayed audio with Atmosphere.

Thanks for reminding me about flstudio.com. Picked up my copy of FL 7 while I was over there. :)

Cheers,

Malcolm.

Jason Brian Merrill
02-01-2007, 05:57 AM
yeah just came out this morn!!!