S&M Live Configs - Extension for live performers

[Jeffos]

EDIT 7 jan. 2013: Big overhaul of the Live Configs in SWS/S&M extension v2.3.0 #9 (beta ATM, download here (http://code.google.com/p/sws-extension/downloads/list))
The user guide is totally outdated. I will update that when I can, in the meantime I removed the outdated PDF => download will fail! New features are shortly described here (http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php?p=1099347&postcount=28).
_______

The Live Configs is part of the SWS/S&M extension. Download the lastest version here (http://code.google.com/p/sws-extension/downloads/list).

I made a little user manual about Live Configs: download PDF (http://reaper.mj-s.com/S&M_LiveConfigs_Ed2.pdf).

Live Configs!? What is it?


The "Live Configs" is a tool made for live performers.

As the wording "live" is used for very different things, the scope of this tool/document can be simply clarified:
- Sound engineers mixing a band (or something) live
- "Playback-based" software, like live step sequencers, etc..
- Using the computer as an FX processor, just like a pedal effect <- here we are: on stage!

.. so we do not care about the keyboard, the mouse or things like that. We just want to plug things, boot the computer and play the guitar (or keys or both: it works the same for audio and MIDI).
We just need a MIDI controller to change "configs" while playing: a fader, a knob, an expression pedal or +/- pedals.
"Changing configs" means changing effects (VST/VSTi, AU, ..), FX presets, routings, triggering actions, etc…. well, anything but in a smooth and glitch-free way.


http://reaper.mj-s.com/S&M_LiveConfigs.jpg

It might be useful other people too: it is not clearly said in the PDF but the tool can also just be used to trigger actions. The difference with standard macros is that you can use absolute values of learned CC messages. Example: CC#4 value 10 -> do this, CC#4 value 11 -> do that, etc..

Feel free to post feedback or questions if the PDF is not clear enough (e.g. sucky English) !

[moliere]

Damn that looks cool...

[Anton9]

Hey Jeffos,

Good job on the pdf! I was wondering something.., in the pdf it says this, "On WindowsOS, a command “Learn from Actions window” is available in the context menu" I am on Windows and I don't see this command in the context menu. I'm using v2.1.0 #28.., is the command in this version or is it in an upcoming version?

Also noticed when right clicking on a cell under "Acivate action" and selecting "Edit" it opens the cell under "FX user presets" instead. If I do the same under "Deactivate action" it opens the cell under "Activate action" for editing.

Cheers

[Jeffos]

Good job on the pdf! I was wondering something.., in the pdf it says this, "On WindowsOS, a command “Learn from Actions window” is available in the context menu" I am on Windows and I don't see this command in the context menu. I'm using v2.1.0 #28.., is the command in this version or is it in an upcoming version?
Hi Anton! yes, the doc is ahead of the code, that must be a first! :)
I have not yet pushed these updates in the SWS extension: coming soon..
EDIT: minor updates around GUI (same "MIDI core"). It was just really time to publish some doc!

That's also why the pdf deals with an imaginary v2.1.0 #30 which is a version that does not exist yet!

Also noticed when right clicking on a cell under "Acivate action" and selecting "Edit" it opens the cell under "FX user presets" instead. If I do the same under "Deactivate action" it opens the cell under "Activate action" for editing.

yep, known and fixed too! coming soon..

[XITE-1/4LIVE]

Just saw this and dl'd it immediately, and thank you so much.
I use a config nobody else uses but a few guys who don't spend much time forum-izing.
Now we even have a thread.
I hope ypou don;t mind but I will posting with many questions very soon.
I was going to buy a MIDI Temp set up but Reaper is my last chance for software live.
It's stable as hell so that's a good start.

Thanks 4 Your efforts and time...

CiaoMein

[tweed]

woohoo. getting it.

plus, happy to hear about forthcoming update for functionality ... and lots to be happily doing until then. maximum magical!

[andrew737]

Hi to all!
I've past the last two days trying to understand how to cycling through the lines in the liveconfig (using multi sessions of the same vsti) with a simple pedal or a button in the midi controller... any advice to how to do that?

http://img843.**************/img843/5166/32787954.jpg

If it's not possible, there are others ways to do it? for example the snapshots works fine... but the switching is really slow, i need to change sounds in a live situation, so... faster is better :D
Thanks!! And sorry for my bad english!
Greetings from Italy!

[Mr. Data]

Hi Andrew and welcome to Reaperland! :)

A while ago I tried this as well, but it didn't work out like I wanted it to do. The structure and way it works is, unlike most other things in Reaper and its extensions, all but self-explanatory. After fiddling hours I managed to get some results but not with Program Change messages, as it should be IMO, but with changing some Controller.

Now I opened the window again and I regret to say, I'm as clueless as you. :(

Not much of a help, eh?

Sorry.


-Data

[BenK-msx]

hi, there are actions that select the config -

in actions (hit '?' ) search 'config' and those are a set for going to next/previous within each 'bank' of 8.

however also to the top right of the actions window, at the 'section' drop down box, change that from 'main' to 's&m extensions'...


then the list will update to show the live config 'midi' only assignable actions, that once assigned let you cycle to specific configs #'s using one midi controller CC. that could also be what you're after.


Jeffos may come and explain all, he wanted swift changes so its possible. cheers.

[andrew737]

Thanks for the welcome, and... OMG it's working :D Those damn "config" command are well hidden! And the switching is fast enough too!
1000 times thankyou :D

[andrew737]

Can I set a challenge? the switching works perfect, but if I load too many vsti it's kinda saturate the RAM... It would be perfect if i could set all the fx offline except the one i'm using and the next one (like a preload), and the "next" button automatically puts the next on "preload" and the previous one on "offline" :S
For example,
CC Value 000: fx 01 and fx 02 online, and 3,4,5,6,7,8 offline
CC Value 001: fx 02 and fx 03 online, and 1,4,5,6,7,8 offline
CC Value 002: fx 03 and fx 04 online, and 1,2,5,6,7,8 offline
And so on

I've tried to build a custom action, but the rule affect only the selected track, even if I set (on the same action) all the others on offline

I keep trying in the meantime :D

You rock! \m/

[Jeffos]

EDIT: forget that (there is a learn button + integrated preload since SWS/S&M extension v2.3.0 #9) /EDIT
____

BenK was on spot! And yeah.. I know.. Those actions are well "hidden", this is due some tech constraints (API limitation) but I'll simplify that soon thanks to a new "Learn" button.
I made a little PDF to explain such things BTW: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=96289 (may be a better place to discuss this tool too)
Rmk: I really have to update this doc though! Full support for OSX , AWESOME improvement since REAPER v4.20 (that makes it possible to apply track template/fx chains files in a glitch-free way too -wicked if combined with SSD drives), etc..

About the "challenge":
You are not the first one to talk about a "preload" thingy. That probably means I should do something about it but, to me, the pb is that the idea itself has a flaw: if you want to preload something, it implicitely means you already know what config (instrument) you will use next, i.e. you would have to use configs in some ordered way, like ascending CC values 007, then 008, 009, etc..

In my vision, the tool is made to switch from any config to any other, in any order. Configs can be "cumulative" too so you will not want all tracks but the active to be set offline in such cases (ex: 072 enables a looper, 003 piano (1st loop), 011 rhodes (2nd loop), 073 disable/mute looper, well.. that kind of stuff..)

Anyway, about your question, when you say:

CC Value 000: fx 01 and fx 02 online, and 3,4,5,6,7,8 offline
CC Value 001: fx 02 and fx 03 online, and 1,4,5,6,7,8 offline

are you saying?
CC Value 000: fx 01 and fx 02 online, and 3,4,5,6,7,8 offline for the same track X ? (<- I would not recommend that personnaly!)
or
CC Value 000: fxs of track 01 and fxs of track 02 online, and FXs of tracks 3,4,5,6,7,8 offline ?

[andrew737]

BenK was on spot! And yeah.. I know.. Those actions are well "hidden", this is due some tech constraints (API limitation) but I'll simplify that soon thanks to a new "Learn" button.
I made a little PDF to explain such things BTW: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=96289 (may be a better place to discuss this tool too)
Rmk: I really have to update this doc though! Full support for OSX , AWESOME improvement since REAPER v4.20 (that makes it possible to apply track template/fx chains files in a glitch-free way too -wicked if combined with SSD drives), etc..

About the "challenge":
You are not the first one to talk about a "preload" thingy. That probably means I should do something about it but, to me, the pb is that the idea itself has a flaw: if you want to preload something, it implicitely means you already know what config (instrument) you will use next, i.e. you would have to use configs in some ordered way, like ascending CC values 007, then 008, 009, etc..

In my vision, the tool is made to switch from any config to any other, in any order. Configs can be "cumulative" too so you will not want all tracks but the active to be set offline in such cases (ex: 072 enables a looper, 003 piano (1st loop), 011 rhodes (2nd loop), 073 disable/mute looper, well.. that kind of stuff..)

Anyway, about your question, when you say:

are you saying?
CC Value 000: fx 01 and fx 02 online, and 3,4,5,6,7,8 offline for the same track X ? (<- I would not recommend that personnaly!)
or
CC Value 000: fxs of track 01 and fxs of track 02 online, and FXs of tracks 3,4,5,6,7,8 offline ?

Thanks for the answer boss :D
I understand what are you saying, doing something like my idea it's kinda limitating for the real potentiality of the program! So, the fastest way (with a restrained use of RAM)to switch through a sound to an other with the same vsti is doing it on the same track?

And yes, I meant
CC Value 000: fxs of track 01 and fxs of track 02 online, and FXs of tracks 3,4,5,6,7,8 offline

Thanks for clarifying my ideas! :D

[Mr. Data]

BenK was on spot! And yeah.. I know.. Those actions are well "hidden", this is due some tech constraints (API limitation) but I'll simplify that soon thanks to a new "Learn" button.
I made a little PDF to explain such things BTW: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=96289 (may be a better place to discuss this tool too)
Rmk: I really have to update this doc though! Full support for OSX , AWESOME improvement since REAPER v4.20 (that makes it possible to apply track template/fx chains files in a glitch-free way too -wicked if combined with SSD drives), etc..

About the "challenge":
You are not the first one to talk about a "preload" thingy. That probably means I should do something about it but, to me, the pb is that the idea itself has a flaw: if you want to preload something, it implicitely means you already know what config (instrument) you will use next, i.e. you would have to use configs in some ordered way, like ascending CC values 007, then 008, 009, etc..

In my vision, the tool is made to switch from any config to any other, in any order. Configs can be "cumulative" too so you will not want all tracks but the active to be set offline in such cases (ex: 072 enables a looper, 003 piano (1st loop), 011 rhodes (2nd loop), 073 disable/mute looper, well.. that kind of stuff..)

Anyway, about your question, when you say:

are you saying?
CC Value 000: fx 01 and fx 02 online, and 3,4,5,6,7,8 offline for the same track X ? (<- I would not recommend that personnaly!)
or
CC Value 000: fxs of track 01 and fxs of track 02 online, and FXs of tracks 3,4,5,6,7,8 offline ?

Thanks Jeffos! :)

That's a big help.


-Data

[Jeffos]

EDIT: forget that! (there is an integrated preload since SWS/S&M extension v2.3.0 #9) /EDIT
____

thanks Mr Data and sorry for the laaaate reply andrew737..
So, the fastest way (with a restrained use of RAM)to switch through a sound to an other with the same vsti is doing it on the same track?
er.. not sure I follow you :) but yes, if you can only switch fx presets of that VSTi, that is better.

And yes, I meant
CC Value 000: fxs of track 01 and fxs of track 02 online, and FXs of tracks 3,4,5,6,7,8 offline
Ok! The other option at fx level would be possible too but probably slow..
So, in this case you need a macro like this "Online next live config":
http://stash.reaper.fm/13209/OnlineNextLiveConfig.jpg

.. and you use it in the column "Activate action" (+ offline in the column "Dectivate action") like that:

http://stash.reaper.fm/13210/S%26M_LiveConfig_preloadMacro.gif

^^ I have made a basic example where the same track 3 is used in 3 different configs (say, to swicth 3 different FX presets) so that you can really see where to online/offline things.
That should get you started for more "advanced" configs: the only thing to know about Activate/Deactivate actions is that >only< the related track will be selected when they are performed, that helps.
And, as discussed above, this quick macro example implies you will switch configs in ascending order (and on ascending tracks).
__

I am thinking to add a real "preload" feature.. Probably 2 new options Offline all but active/near config tracks and Offline all but active track (requires preload).
But I'll detail that later in the "main" thread (needs tests in rehearsal conditions first!), your inputs/ideas will be welcome there BTW! Or.. would you be OK if I ask a moderator to merge this discussion in that thread (http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=96289) ? useful tips here!

[andrew737]

Thanks again, you are the man!! I'm going to try this config. as soon as i can!
I'm with you for the merging of the posts ;)

[Breeder]

This is great! Thanks! I played a bit with it now and these are the things I miss. I'm just thinking out loud...

Maybe each live config could get it's own edit field for CC_DELAY instead of a global CC_DELAY in .ini file


Copy/paste (in the same config and between various configs) could also be wonderful


Multiple tracks in track field with some kind of tags for muting/selecting. So with just one press you could mute tracks 3,4,5, unmute tracks 1,2 and select track 1.
Maybe just create 3 new colums - mute/unmute/select and add tracks there.


Actions that cycle through CC rows that are populated. At the moment I'm using cycle actions editor with actions to activate next/previous. But it's far from perfect because I have to edit it every time I add a new CC field and make sure to select a correct first CC row before using it. Plus, those actions cycle through all CC rows, not the ones that are populated.


It would also be nice if cockos implemented some kind of option for mute button that would first mute the input and then wait for the track to output silence. An option nice to have when you want to switch tracks and one has a delay and you want to let it finish naturally without stopping it abruptly. At the moment I'm just muting the input track and FX tracks don't get muted - but this sucks because you can't save CPU on FX tracks.

[JayCeePooze]

Hi, so as a complete Reaper newbie who also happens to be a live keyboard player, I'm wondering whether this extension will be suitable for what I'd like to do.

Most of the sounds I use will be within Kontakt (pianos, organs, EPs, clavs, brass, strings, etc) but I would also like to use some other VSTi's. Ideally, I only want to run one instance of each VSTi but the way I change patches within each one will be slightly different.

Within Kontakt, each sound would be set up on a different midi channel. In everything else I'm likely to use, to change sounds means sending a program change message.

My controller keyboard has buttons that send Bank MSB/LSB + Program change. What I'd like to be able to do is have it so that I can use any of those three values (Bank MSB, Bank LSB, Program change) to direct Reaper to EITHER send my midi to a specific channel in Kontakt OR to select a specific patch within another VSTi.

Ideally, I suppose I could just ignore the Bank MSB and LSB messages and just send a program change and have reaper interpret it correctly, so for example program change 1-16 would direct reaper to Kontakt on the same channel, program changes 17-24 would be specific patches within VSTi A (Prophet V for example) and program changes 25-35 would be specific patches within VSTi B (minimoog) and so on.

Is this the right extension for what I want to achieve?

[Jeffos]

This is great! Thanks! I played a bit with it now and these are the things I miss. I'm just thinking out loud...

Thanks for the feedback & sorry for the veeerrryyy late reply, Breeder! Déjà vu: in short, most of the features you are talking already about already exit.. but in a private extension!
I'm thinking about merging/open sourcing it, partially at least, it is technically ready but there some other difficulties (payware stuff). Still discussing, still don't know what to reply to you at this point but I will detail this when I can!

My controller keyboard has buttons that send Bank MSB/LSB + Program change. What I'd like to be able to do is have it so that I can use any of those three values (Bank MSB, Bank LSB, Program change) to direct Reaper to EITHER send my midi to a specific channel in Kontakt OR to select a specific patch within another VSTi.

Hi JayCeePooze and welcome to the forums!
The config you want is the easy part, the Bank MSB/LSB+PC trigger is another story..
For the configs, here's an example:

http://stash.reaper.fm/14674/LiveCfg_tips.jpg

1. Shows how to switch MIDI channels (trick: the Live Config allows you to reconfigure the input track too)
2. Shows configs with different patches for the same plug (same track/fx "43 Rhodes" but different presets)

Now, about the bank/program change (PC):
I guess you have a 2 buttons style controllers (?) like "Program+ , Program+". Unfortunately, you can neither learn actions "Apply Live Config #n (MIDI CC only)" nor "Apply next/previous config" with such PC messages (well, you can, but this would be limited to a given PC #number).
There's a workaround/solution: you would need 2 others (very light) plugs on the input track: a JS that remaps PC to CC and, downstream, MIDItoReaControlPath (http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=43741).
One of the guys I know is in your case: cheap Boss GT-6 guitar effect but it is able to send bank/pc messages. I made a tiny JS which allows him to use the Live Configs tool. I your case, the easier solution would probably be to ignore bank messages and use the little "PC to CC" JS effect I attached here.

Without the tool, since REAPER v4.x, you can use PC to switch presets and also learn PC events, so you can still use tip1 above. The setup will be trickier though.

[Breeder]

Jeffos, new update is awesome! THANKS!

[tweed]

PRELOAD cues up a sound and does NOT actually load it into ram, correct?
and the time to load is the same, yes?

incredibly big thank you.

[Anton9]

Hi Jeffos,

I hope the moving is going well. :D

Would it be possible for you to add support for switching through configs via OSC ? I'm trying to phase-out my use of MIDI CCs as much as possible.

OSC is just so much more versatile.., for example I'm using a Nintendo Wii controller along with a software called GlovePIE which allows for programming and sending of just about any type of OSC message imaginable.
The messages can be triggered using many types of devices such as keyboards & mice, video game controllers, MIDI devices, voice commands, and believe it or not even brainwave detecting devices, you can even set up timed triggers which don't rely on any input device at all.

I can even set up GlovePIE to convert OSC commands into MIDI.., but the problem with that is it relys on using a virtual MIDI port and REAPER's support for virtual MIDI ports is so buggy. Sometimes it works just fine and other times the ports will not be detected or even get dropped in the middle of transmition. :(

Edit: I'm thinking all that would really need to be added is a set of actions much like the ones in place now(SWS/S&M: Apply Live Config # (MIDI CC absolute only)) but that respond to learning like normal actions minus the (MIDI CC absolute only). This would be the best solution and would not require any OSC specific coding on your part. This would also allow the actions to be learned via key-commands/OSC/or even MIDI notes.

[EvilDragon]

Sorry for a stupid question in a hurry (didn't have much time to check all the functionality) - but is there a way to make Live Configs switch between slots via bank select/program changes (this is the most natural way of doing it for me, as a keyboard player)? If not, it would be my suggestion to implement this at certain point. Bank Select could switch between different Live Config sets, and Program Changes could switch between slots.

[Anton9]

Just thought of a couple of actions that Live Configs could really use.

1) An action for the context menu that comes up when right clicking in a row of the "CC value" column that would clear the the entire row of any settings.

2) A master clear action that would clear everything in the currently selected config set and maybe even an action that would clear all configs in all config sets. These actions could be located in the dialog's right click context menu.

Thanks

[Xane002]

Is there a way to send the control from a midi track?

I'd like to prerecord the midi CC in a midi track so that the selection in the Live Config is based on a particular song already identified by markers.

[Breeder]

Thanks to Jeffos, yes you can. Check this: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=43741

[Xane002]

Thanks to Jeffos, yes you can. Check this: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=43741

Thank you! Now I just need to figure out how it works!

[Jeffos]

As the last posters said (thanks guys!), there is a BIG overhaul of the Live Configs in SWS/S&M v2.3.0 #9 (beta ATM, download here (http://code.google.com/p/sws-extension/downloads/list)).
So, the OP and the PDF "user manual" are totally outdated! I will update that when I can, in the meantime I removed the outdated PDF "user manual", download will fail!

In the meantime too, here are the relevant parts of the extension's whatsnew:


v2.3.0 #9 (December 23, 2012)
Live Configs: big overhaul, merged a dedicated extension plugin.
The major changes are:

New "core" to ensure smooth/glitch-free config switches, new "All notes off" logic (now optional)
Added Preload feature: you can prepare an instrument/effect while playing another
This can be done with a second controller (click the new "Learn" button) or multi-touch gesture (see below)
Once a config is preloaded, you can switch/switch back between preloaded/current configs with new actions "SWS/S&M: Live Config n - Apply preloaded config (swap current/preload)"
Preload comes in handy when switching FX chains, or Track Templates or with the new option "Offline all but active/preloaded tracks" (see below)

Added Monitoring windows, demo:

http://stash.reaper.fm/14847/S%26M_LiveConfigMonitor.gif

- Useful with controllers that do not provide visual feedback
- Support 2 fingers scroll gesture over "Current" and "Preload" areas, e.g. switch or preload instruments/effects with a trackpad
- Click on the "Preload" area to swap preloaded/current configs
- Up to 4 Monitors can be used simultaneously, i.e. one per Live Config

Added options (per config):
- "Offline all but active/preloaded tracks (RAM savings)"
The only loaded instruments/effects will be those of the current and preloaded tracks.
Other tracks that are not part of the config will remain as they are, of course. This option works without preload too (switches will be slower though).
Note: handle with care! Do not use this option with buggy instruments/effects!
- "Ignore switches to empty configs"
Especially useful for "Apply next/previous config" actions: switch to the next/previous valid config whatever is the gap (of empty configs) in between
- "Send all notes off when switching configs"
- "Select/scroll to track on list view click"

Added "Tiny fades" knob
It tweaks lengths of tiny fades-out/in when deactivating/activating configs. Disabling fades is allowed but instrument/effect switches might be glitchy!
Note: when a config is made of trailing effects (delay, verb, etc..), you can either disable tiny fades or, better: route the (tiny faded) audio to a track which is not used by the Live Configs

New logic for "Activation" and "Deactivation" actions/macros/scripts:
- If a track is defined for a config, only this track will be selected when the "Activation" (or "Deactivation") action is performed, track selection is restored right after
=> Useful since many actions deal with "selected track(s)". Note: this type of action also avoids to tie things to track numbers, etc..(i.e. things still work if you move/delete tracks)
- If no track is defined for a config, no track will be selected when the "Activation" (or "Deactivation") action is performed, track selection is restored right after
=> Useful to master the current selection state when performing actions

Added helpers:
- Added "Learn" button: direct action learn for "Apply" and "Preload" actions
This is to ease controller bindings (due to some technical constraints, apply/preload actions have to be buried in a section "S&M Extension" of the action list ATM..)
- Added "Create input track" in the context menu (creates a track with needed properties and sends)
- Added option "Automatically update sends from the input track"
If an "Input track" is defined, this option will automatically create/update sends from this track to all configured tracks (and each time a new track is added/removed from the editor's list view)
- Added "Switch delay" knob (no more S&M.ini file tweaks needed). One "Switch delay" per config.

Added a bunch of actions (preload, toggle options or tiny fades on/off, open/close monitoring windows, etc..): filter the action list with "Live Config"!
Note: some of the new actions are very specific and thus hidden by default (customizable in the S&M.ini file (http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=984786#post984786))

New context menu items in the Live Configs editor:
- Copy/cut/paste configs (rows)
With "faulty" controllers, it is useful to copy/paste the same config several times (e.g. too sensitive to set accurate values, etc..)
- Insert config (shift rows up/down) + obey INSERT key
- Apply/preload configs
- Shortcuts: "Show FX chain..." and "Show routing window..." in the Track column and the Input track context menus



.. and (coming soon / next release):


v2.3.0 #10 (?, 2013)

Live Configs: support OSC and rotary controllers

Improved the "learnability" of the following actions of the "S&M Extension" section, they have been renamed accordingly:
- SWS/S&M: Apply Live Config n (MIDI CC absolute only) -> SWS/S&M: Apply Live Config n (MIDI CC/OSC only)
- SWS/S&M: Preload Live Config n (MIDI CC absolute only) -> SWS/S&M: Preload Live Config n (MIDI CC/OSC only)

Support all types of MIDI CC controllers (like endless rotary encoders)
- In addition to the "Absolute" mode, all "Relative" modes of the Learn dialog box are now supported too
- Acceleration is also supported

Support OSC learn (OSC messages with float parameters)
- Example: say you have learned the action "SWS/S&M: Apply Live Config 3 (MIDI CC/OSC only)" with the OSC message "/blabla",
sending "/blabla/f/107" will switch to the instrument/effect #107 of the Live Config #3


^^ Important:
With OSC, relative/rotary controllers, and multi-touch gesture support, it would be possible to target much more than 128 configs of course - but this is an intentional restriction, sorry!
This is due to an greement with some people who paid for a dedicated extension (where, among other things, the number of configs/conrolers and CC/OSC values is free, can have duplicates, etc..)
I wanted to clarify that because I know it will come on the table!

___

@ED, Anton9, tweed, Breeder & Xane002:

Sorry, I'll reply to each points.. but later as most of them will be adressed in the updated PDF!
Globally what you request is either already possible or possible with the latest release of the Live Configs. The same goes for the ~15 first posts (learn is dead easy now, integrated preload feature, etc..)

[Xane002]

No need to reply to my post, Jeffos. Breeder's suggestion worked brilliantly! After I DL'd the plugin referenced by Breeder, all I had to do to get the Live Config to learn the pre-recorded midi CC was start the playback before using the Live Config "learn" function. It worked the first try!


However..... catch though is that Reaper isn't like Cubase in that program changes will be sent even if not playing when you place the edit cursor within the length of the midi segment. Did that make sense? Cubase will send any PCs in a midi segment as a sort of reset when your edit cursor crosses into the length of that segment - even if you simply click on the timeline with no playback - this is a great feature when playing live because it queues up my HD500 patches for the guitar before the song actually starts rolling. I wanted to use this for synth selection too.

So instead, I've doubled up certain buttons in TouchOSC to send a midi CC and OSC - OSC to select the song, CC to select the Live Config patch.

I'm excited to give the new version of Live Config a whirl - it's central to what I'm trying to do live.

Here's what I'm trying to accomplish with Reaper: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=115788

This explains what I'm trying to do for live performance - and I've almost got it all down to my "one button" nirvana but ALL MY ACTION/CMD IDs CHANGED ON ME LAST NIGHT!!!!! :(

I have a custom command for each song, mostly to go to a marker and in some cases, change the tempo. I made about 50 custom actions, entered each one of these into TouchOSC for an /action message....I close the program and a few hours later....ALL OF MY CUSTOM ACTION IDS HAVE SHIFTED THIER COMMAND IDS!!!!

I'm trying to figure out why. :(


EDIT: I figured out why - removing a custom action leaves a "hole" in the CMD ID assignments where upon the next restart of Reaper, that hole will be filled by the succeeding actions. At least it's apparent why....just not good form.

[Breeder]

When "Send all notes off when switching configs" is turned on, there is a really big and noticeable delay when switching configs. Thank god I don't need that option. :D

Can anybody else reproduce it?

[tweed]

asking if someone could confirm that I've not missed something.

--- the 'preload' function is mostly? a visual helper and doesn't
load the patches into memory and therefore doesn't make switching faster in a big way.

i love being totally inaccurate sometimes!
how are you using preload:-) ???
thanks!

[cjaxis]

is this possible to switch configs from MIDI Item on input track with pre-written CC? Now it's switching only from my MIDI controller.
I want to play guitar along witn playback track and fully automated FX switching without touching any controllers during playing.

[Jeffos]

I have not yet found the time to update the Live Configs user guide :/
I'll (try to) update it before 2024, I promise :)

Also, sorry for the late and "bundled" replies below, I'll try to follow things more closely...

Just thought of a couple of actions that Live Configs could really use.
1) An action for the context menu that comes up when right clicking in a row of the "CC value" column that would clear the the entire row of any settings.
2) A master clear action that would clear everything in the currently selected config set and maybe even an action that would clear all configs in all config sets. These actions could be located in the dialog's right click context menu.

I'd say:
1) Select the row you want to clear, press the DEL key
2) Ctrl-A (select all), then DEL

If you really need to do this via actions too, could you please explain me why? (briefly)

Is there a way to send the control from a midi track?

As Breeder said (and as you figured it out in the meantime, it seems) you can do this thanks to MIDItoReaControlPath: see my detailed answer to cjaxis below!

When "Send all notes off when switching configs" is turned on, there is a really big and noticeable delay when switching configs. Thank god I don't need that option. :D

Can anybody else reproduce it?

Hey Breeder! Assuming you are talking of a reasonable delay (and not minutes/hours :)) well this might be "normal": it depends on your options, well on your combinations of options.
=> just to make sure, please can you e-mail me that live config (just the RPP file) ? TIA!

One combination of options example that can explain this: when you are using an input track (option1), and a tiny fade > 0 ms (option2), and "Send all notes off when switching configs" (option3), to make sure there won't be any stuck notes, the extension will have first have to wait for the tiny fade to be done (option2), mute sends from the input track (option1), and then send "all notes off" (option3).


Bottom line: you have to find a compromise between safe instruments/effects switches AND acceptable delay between those switches.
- For MIDI users: activating the "all notes off" option will avoid stuck notes but it introduces a slight delay (which is itself tied to the tiny fade option, as explained above)
- For audio users (Guitar, vocals, etc..): they do not need the "all notes off" option, but it is highly recommended to set a "tiny fade" that will prevent audio glitches when switching configs. The longer "tiny fade" the longer switch between configs, of course.
- Immediate switches: it is possible to switch immediately between configs (i.e. all options disabled), but in this case you will most probably hear glitchy switches and/or stuck MIDI notes


asking if someone could confirm that I've not missed something.

--- the 'preload' function is mostly? a visual helper and doesn't
load the patches into memory and therefore doesn't make switching faster in a big way.

i love being totally inaccurate sometimes!
how are you using preload:-) ???
thanks!


Preload works as expected here..

Just in case...
To make sense, the Preload feature must be either used with the option "Offline all but active/preloaded tracks (RAM savings)", or when you put individual FX online/offline (thanks to the Live Configs' activate/deactivate actions for ex.)
For live use (I mean, on stage, in real life) I do not recommend that option ^^ unless you rely on a SSD and totally trust the stability of your plugins.

Hope this helps (?)

is this possible to switch configs from MIDI Item on input track with pre-written CC? Now it's switching only from my MIDI controller.
I want to play guitar along witn playback track and fully automated FX switching without touching any controllers during playing.


Yes, you can do this thanks to MIDItoReaControlPath (http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=43741).
This have been said earlier in the thread but not really detailed...
I have attached a little project here which demonstrate how to do that (instead of a long technical description (in funky English :)))
=> The RPP contains an ultra simple live config that just mute/unmute tracks (but it would work the same with FX preset/FX chains/Track template/... switches).
=> The idea of this RPP is to trigger those configs with the MIDI events of the last track

1) Download & install MIDItoReaControlPath in your normal VST folder
2) Load the attached RPP (make sure MIDItoReaControlPath is ok/loaded on the on the last track)
3) Now we are going to "learn":
3a) When you open the RPP, just press play (as you can see, the project is ready for looping)
3b) *While playing/looping*, in the "Live Configs" window click the button Learn / "Learn Apply Live Config 1 action"
3c) Wait for a CC (this where MIDItoReaControlPath is needed: it forwards CCs of the MIDI item to the learn system), click OK.

=> Then the fest starts immediately!
=> Each CC of the MIDI item is activating a track and muting all other tracks (I mean, all other tracks of the config. The track with MIDItoReaControlPath is not part of the Live Configs and thus never muted, of course!)
=> An anim of what you should see:

http://stash.reaper.fm/15809/S%26M_LiveConfigs_and_MIDItoReaControlPath.gif

^^ REAPER rocks :)


Sorry for a stupid question in a hurry (didn't have much time to check all the functionality) - but is there a way to make Live Configs switch between slots via bank select/program changes (this is the most natural way of doing it for me, as a keyboard player)? If not, it would be my suggestion to implement this at certain point. Bank Select could switch between different Live Config sets, and Program Changes could switch between slots.
It's possible.
In the same spirit than the above reply I'd do this: instead of declaring my controller in the MIDI prefs, I would disable it there and arm a track with that controller as MIDI input instead.
Then, on that track I "just" need a little JS + MIDItoReaControlPath (http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=43741). The JS changes the CC number according to the bank messages it receives, done.
If you *really* need that but have no idea how to code such a JS, let me know I'll post one.

Also, for the record, the idea behind different Live Configs numbers (1,2,3 & 4) was more likely to let several musicians switch their own instruments/effects at the same time (each musician having its own controller and a dedicated Live Config number). But yes, nothing prevents a single musician to use several controllers/configs -OR- a single controller that triggers different Live Config numbers (thanks to a trick like the JS+MIDItoReaControlPath one I described just above) -OR- ...

[cjaxis]

Jeffos, many thanks for explaining!

[Jeffos]

I had MANY requests for OSC feedback...
.. just to say it will be available in the next SWS/S&M version, so it will be v2.3.0 #15

From the whatsnew:


Live Configs:
+Added basic OSC feedback
To bind an OSC device: Live Configs window > Right-click > OSC feedback, and choose a device in the list
Devices listed there are the OSC "controle surfaces" defined in Options > Preferences > Controle Surfaces
Note: only the name, output IP, max packet size and output port parameters are required. Unless you need REAPER feedback as well, you do not need to tick the option "Send to port"
Up to 4 OSC devices are managed, i.e. distinct feedback for Live Config #1, #2, #3 and #4
The possible OSC messages (with string arguments) are:
- /snm/liveconfign/current/changed - when the active config changed for the Live Config #n
- /snm/liveconfign/current/changing - when the active config is changing for the Live Config #n
- /snm/liveconfign/preload/changed - when the preloaded config changed for the Live Config #n
- /snm/liveconfign/preload/changing - when the active config is changing for the Live Config #n


"changing" OSC messages = greyed info displayed in Monitoring windows (see gif anim here (http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php?p=1099347&postcount=28)).
"changed" OSC messages = info displayed in black in Monitoring windows.

In v2.3.0 #15, there will be OSC feedback for the Region Playlist too (a tool that allows you switching/looping regions live, among other things..).

Note: the whatsnew states "basic" OSC feedback because the networking code is pretty simple but that should be ok ATM (the extension is not talkative..)

___

Also, many thanks to Breeder!
It turned out "slow switches" (1s) with the option "Send all notes off when switching configs" was indeed a bug, this is fixed for the new build too!

[peanutismint]

Hey guys! This seems like just what I need, even though I'm only planning to use it to switch virtual instruments from my keyboard without being near the computer.

Does anybody have a link to the PDF that was removed? I realise it's out-dated but I'd just like to get a basic idea of how to use the extension - sure I'll be able to figure the rest out on my own.

At the moment I've got four tracks, each with a different software instrument. I've got things like 'offline/mute unselected track FX' selected, which sounds like what I want, but ideally I also want it so that every config i select also arms that track for midi input, so that from my midi keyboard I can 'scroll' back and forth through which instrument I use....does that make sense?

[Jeffos]

Hi peanutismint, sorry for the delay...
Hey guys! This seems like just what I need, even though I'm only planning to use it to switch virtual instruments from my keyboard without being near the computer.

Does anybody have a link to the PDF that was removed? I realise it's out-dated but I'd just like to get a basic idea of how to use the extension - sure I'll be able to figure the rest out on my own.

You can find an old version of the user guide here (http://reaper.mj-s.com/_S&M_LiveConfigs_Ed2.pdf) (well outdated! nothing about OSC, new monitoring windows, etc..)

At the moment I've got four tracks, each with a different software instrument. I've got things like 'offline/mute unselected track FX' selected, which sounds like what I want, but ideally I also want it so that every config i select also arms that track for midi input, so that from my midi keyboard I can 'scroll' back and forth through which instrument I use....does that make sense?

Quite "simple"... May be you can just arm a track (called the "input track" in the Live Config tool) and add routings to those 4 VSTi tracks, I mean 4 sends with different MIDI channels (make sure you disable this led (http://stash.reaper.fm/11421/resetCCs.gif) for MIDI sends). With the Live Config tool, you won't have stuck notes when switching instruments.
If you indeed want/need to "auto-arm" tracks when switching intruments for some reasons, you can do it thanks to the tool's activation/deactivation actions, for example:

http://stash.reaper.fm/18033/LiveConfig_Arm_Disarm_tracks.jpg

^^ note: no "input track" in this case

[peanutismint]

Thanks for that! :-) I actually found the PDF and worked out the controls after posting - it's a great extension!

[Tycho]

Thanks for this Jeffos. I am having issues in general with frequent crashing when opening projects containing live configs in Reaper x64 on Mavericks / late-2013 retina. When opening I typically see some strange data in the live configs window like this (see image). Here's the crash report: http://pastebin.com/LmmLVDwv

http://forum.cockos.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20346&stc=1&d=1391035170

any idea what's going on here?

[Jeffos]

Duhh!! Yes I can repro in OS X 64-bit, thanks for the report Tycho!
a bit overloaded these days but i'll look into this as issue soon as I can (well already did, but looks like a tricky one: will create a ticket in the sws tracker & edit this post with the url, for the followup...).

Everything seems ok in 32-bit though, if you don't have other constraints may be you can use this in the meantime (?)

Also I know we're both talking about the same thing when it comes to "using REAPER live" ;)
=> 2 things I want to add: this tool is used on stage but not on Mac yet, well as far as I know... also, do not hesitate to PM me if you plan to use this tool as such!

[Tycho]

Thanks jeffos, appreciate it. We've had stability issues in general with Reaper x32 on mac when hitting the memory limit os 2GB it always crashes. we have very large projects for the show so we need x64 I'm afraid.

Duhh!! Yes I can repro in OS X 64-bit, thanks for the report Tycho!
a bit overloaded these days but i'll look into this as issue soon as I can (well already did, but looks like a tricky one: will create a ticket in the sws tracker & edit this post with the url, for the followup...).

Everything seems ok in 32-bit though, if you don't have other constraints may be you can use this in the meantime (?)

Also I know we're both talking about the same thing when it comes to "using REAPER live" ;)
=> 2 things I want to add: this tool is used on stage but not on Mac yet, well as far as I know... also, do not hesitate to PM me if you plan to use this tool as such!

[Jeffos]

Ok... Got it anyway, fixed for the next SWS/S&M release (so it will be v2.4.0 #3).
(the next pb now is how to host new SWS releases because google let us down :/ we're working on it...)

[Tycho]

Ok... Got it anyway, fixed for the next SWS/S&M release (so it will be v2.4.0 #3).
(the next pb now is how to host new SWS releases because google let us down :/ we're working on it...)

thanks so much! will start testing as soon as it's out.

[Tycho]

Ok... Got it anyway, fixed for the next SWS/S&M release (so it will be v2.4.0 #3).
(the next pb now is how to host new SWS releases because google let us down :/ we're working on it...)

FYI Jeffos, I'm getting this when I try to PM you: "Jeffos has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space."

[godly]

Seems that Synth1 vst cannot be used with Live configs, you cannot select the presets, as they are one by one.
Is there a way to add a snapshot to live config, this way I can completely open a state.
Or other question: can the snapshots be used in a live configs way? (selected bij PC)

[EvilDragon]

Go to Synth1 options, enable "Select program from host" there. Then on MIDI tab enable receiving Bank Select and Program Changes.

[godly]

Go to Synth1 options, enable "Select program from host" there. Then on MIDI tab enable receiving Bank Select and Program Changes.

Thx, for your help!
It's already set program from host, but it's says none in liveconfig, the other options are not available. It's because Synth1 uses seperate patches, not a patch bank.

Could I use the snapshots in anyway. I tried selecting them but they don't apear in the lc window?

UPDATE: I've found the way to recall the snapshots :) Let's try it tomorrow :)

[spacedyevest28]

Is it possible to switch through programs with one pedal?

For instance, for one song I wanna cycle through these:

Strings
Piano
Lead
Srings
Lead
Chorus

W/ one pedal is it possible to cycle through all of these patches?

[tweed]

Make my day - tell me I'm inaccurate

Using PreLoad:

preload will NOT load into ram a BIGGish sample library
IN THE BACKGROUND while playing the current config LIVE.

Preload works only/best with fx and VSTi switching and NOT
sample player VSTi's patches and all their ram using samples.

Could i have perhaps said that better? yep.

Every fumbling attempt I'm made at using Live Configs AND
Preload with TWO sample library patches suggests that
Preloaded live configs have no benefit for using just large sample libraries?


yes?

Make my day - tell me I'm inaccurate

[mschnell]

Now, about the bank/program change (PC):
I guess you have a 2 buttons style controllers (?) like "Program+ , Program+". Unfortunately, you can neither learn actions "Apply Live Config #n (MIDI CC only)" nor "Apply next/previous config" with such PC messages (well, you can, but this would be limited to a given PC #number).
There's a workaround/solution: you would need 2 others (very light) plugs on the input track: a JS that remaps PC to CC and, downstream, MIDItoReaControlPath (http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=43741).
One of the guys I know is in your case: cheap Boss GT-6 guitar effect but it is able to send bank/pc messages. I made a tiny JS which allows him to use the Live Configs tool. I your case, the easier solution would probably be to ignore bank messages and use the little "PC to CC" JS effect I attached here.

Without the tool, since REAPER v4.x, you can use PC to switch presets and also learn PC events, so you can still use tip1 above. The setup will be trickier though.

Hi Jeffos,

As this message is rather old, I am wondering if there better options right now. (I of course have the most recent Reaper and SWS versions.)

I am trying to do just this: using Midi "Program Change" Messages to trigger "Live Config" events.

Up till now, I was unable to "Learn" any Midi events (be that "Program Change" or any others).

Do I (still) need "MIDItoReaControlPath" to feed any midi events to the "Live Config" Midi input ?

Do I (still) need to use the "JS effect" provided to convert "Program Change" messages to "Control Change" messages ?

In fact IMHO it would be great if you could combine the "Live Config" feature of SWS and the Midi-Input feature of "MIDItoReaControlPath" in a single VST for easily converting Reaper in a Live VST host.

Thanks for your great work !
-Michael

[yams]

Hello team

I m a live sound engineer and use reaper as a multi vst FX during the live performances.
I really enjoy the live config extension and snapshot because i can synch my desk snapshots in midi with reaper and use different settings for each song.

Does someone know if we can put more than one activate action per line in live config.
I want to trig one snapshot and go to one marker in order to change the tempo of the project. This will be really usefull to put all my fx in the same tempo than the live song.
Thanks in advance for your answer

[Ravi]

Please note I am new to Reaper Please help

I have setup 5 vst instrument tracks in reaper The instruments are played through midi data from another midi track

I need to switch track during Live performance using a midi pad with 5 buttons so that I can select and play any instrument during a song

I do not know what MIDI codes I need to send from midi controller pad with 5 buttons to reaper and what should be midi port and channel assignments to achieve this

Also how can I send track switching midi codes using Reaper Virtual Midi Keyboard

Please kindly provide me sufficient step-by-step detail

Thank You Very Much

Rav

[bazsound]

EDIT 7 jan. 2013: Big overhaul of the Live Configs in SWS/S&M extension v2.3.0 #9 (beta ATM, download here (http://code.google.com/p/sws-extension/downloads/list))
The user guide is totally outdated. I will update that when I can, in the meantime I removed the outdated PDF => download will fail! New features are shortly described here (http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php?p=1099347&postcount=28).
_______

The Live Configs is part of the SWS/S&M extension. Download the lastest version here (http://code.google.com/p/sws-extension/downloads/list).

I made a little user manual about Live Configs: download PDF (http://reaper.mj-s.com/S&M_LiveConfigs_Ed2.pdf).

Live Configs!? What is it?



http://reaper.mj-s.com/S&M_LiveConfigs.jpg

It might be useful other people too: it is not clearly said in the PDF but the tool can also just be used to trigger actions. The difference with standard macros is that you can use absolute values of learned CC messages. Example: CC#4 value 10 -> do this, CC#4 value 11 -> do that, etc..

Feel free to post feedback or questions if the PDF is not clear enough (e.g. sucky English) !

very nice i need to check this out.

hwover as a live sound engineer, i indeed do care about the keyboard and mouse. since i need to make adjustments to plugins and insert plugins on the fly.

very nice though this looks very interesting as an alternative to waves or liveprofessor

[mschnell]

I do not know what MIDI codes I need to send from midi controller pad with 5 buttons to reaper and what should be midi port and channel assignments to achieve this
Without other tools LiveConfig is controlled by Midi CC messages.

It can be trained to adhere to any CC controller on any channel (exactly one CC and exactly one channel dedicated to exactly one "config" (page) ).

Hence if you can set it that way the 5 keyboard buttons should send the same CC on the same channel with five different values.

The lines on that page are addressed by the CC value.

If your keyboard buttons send different messages (e.g. program change) you need to install and configure yet two other tools.


Also how can I send track switching midi codes using Reaper Virtual Midi Keyboard

Only by using Live configs, one of the said additional tools and a tool that changes midi note to CC. This might or might not be available out of the box, but it can rather easily be scripted. (In fact I don't see why anybody would want to do this, but ....)

hwover as a live sound engineer, i indeed do care about the keyboard and mouse.I can supply scripts that use LiveConfigs to switch tracks on PC keyboard shortcuts in a rather sophisticated way (e.g. stepping through multiple positions in multiple songs additional to direct access) (work in progress -> http://www.bschnell.de/patch.pdf.)

-Michael

(I updated the Live Configs Doku (work in progress -> http://www.bschnell.de/LiveConfigs_1.pdf )

[Ravi]

Thank You Very Much for your kind reply

Please kindly provide me with more details

I am using Reaper in a live setup

For each song,
I need to create a Midi backing track with drum, base multiple sounds. Is this multiple sounds in backing track possible.

Each song will have multiple midi regions which loop and which can be started or selected one after the previous using single Midi controller keyboard button Please advise if it is possible to select Midi region using single Midi controller keyboard button and how to make reaper play 2 or more sounds for each midi note on backing track

Another audio input track for singer

There is another track with VST software which generates Midi data from guitar. This midi data is routed to 8 other tracks which host different VSTi sounds selectable by using 8 Midi controller keyboard buttons

Please kindly advise me the best solutions step-by-step with sufficient details about track routing and midi backing track region and vsti instrument selection in live

Thank You Very Much

[mschnell]

As LiveConfigs is provided to allow to switch on and off sound and effect engines (i.e. mute and unmute Reaper tracks), but not to control run/stop of playback, I suppose this is not the appropriate tool for what you have in mind (even though LiveConfigs in fact can generate any Reaper "actions" and via that you can start / stop playback and have full control about Reaper via scripts).

Maybe the new Reaper Feature "SubProject" allows for starting (by a Reaper event) and running multiple multi-track setups independently (but in parallel). I did not yet take a look at that.

Maybe, what you want is a sampler: an instrument that triggered by a Midi (note-on) message plays back a (or multiple) recorded sound.

Here you can take a look at (e.g.) "LinuxSampler" -> http://www.linuxsampler.org/documentation.html . (Despite of the name there is a Windows version. I did not look for Mac stuff).

LinuxSampler (and other similar VSTs, I once tried e.g. Sforzando -> https://www.plogue.com/products/sforzando/ or see -> http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=115186 ) use the standard SFZ format to define it's "sounds":

In an SFZ file, you define wav-files to be played back whenever a note-on is received and you can set lots of playback parameters (trigger keys, loops, pitch modification, envelopes, filters, ...) most of which you will not need here.


Once you wrote an SFZ file ad saved the wave files with your sounds to be played back you can use the Sampler as a VST instrument that will play your files triggered by your pads (or whatever midi source).

Of course one of the best (known) Sampers is NI Kontakt. It uses it's own propriety format and can import your wav files in a user friendly way. But it is not exactly cheap :) .

-Michael

[godly]

You can use marker actions to start stop the timeline?

[Ravi]

Thank You Again

Hi Godly

Thank You for your reply

Please kindly advise with sufficient details how I can trigger selection and playback of midi backing track region which has multiple regions using midi controller button. Please help with required scripts and or details

Please let me know how a single midi note can play multiple instruments sounds on a midi backing track How to setup this midi backing track

Thank You All Again

[Soli Deo Gloria]

Hi!

One question about the number of simultaneous live configs available : in the manual it says that we can use up to 8 configs but in the window, as well as in the actions list, I can only see 4... has anything changed since then? I´m using the latest version of Reaper with SWS extensions v2.8.3.

[mschnell]

Hi!

One question about the number of simultaneous live configs available : in the manual it says that we can use up to 8 configs but in the window, as well as in the actions list, I can only see 4... has anything changed since then? I´m using the latest version of Reaper with SWS extensions v2.8.3.

The old manual is wrong.

It's only 4 Configs (aka Pages / Tables)

see the updated manual -> http://www.bschnell.de/LiveConfigs_1.pdf

[Soli Deo Gloria]

Thanks for the feedback, mschnell!

What a pitty! So, if you have, say, 7 performers/tracks, you must distribute the changes between the 512 available rows in the 4 pages, am I wrong?

[mschnell]

Thanks for the feedback, mschnell!

What a pitty! So, if you have, say, 7 performers/tracks, you must distribute the changes between the 512 available rows in the 4 pages, am I wrong?

I never saw a problem in this.

for me a Page is a set of sounds that I play with a masterkeyboard.

I have two Masterkeyboards so I do use two Config tables, one for each of them.

So I have up to 128 different sounds / patches per Masterkeyboard. Each of my masterkeyboards only has buttons to select one of 64 Sounds via Program-Change messages.

OK, I could build multiple or even many patch pages but for my application, up to 64 sounds is by far enough.

Maybe you have a completely different use for LiveConfigs in mind....

-Michael

[Soli Deo Gloria]

Well, I don´t know if this would open a can of worms, but I´d find it very useful if we could add/remove pages as needed for different ensembles - say, from a solo act to a symphony orchestra -. To be precise, I´m beginning to write for an ensemble of 4 controller keyboards, electronic percussionist and a variable number of voices from 1 to 4. If my idea could be implemented somehow, I´d find other uses as well...

[mschnell]

"ensemble" = multiple players performing together.

I don't see a different use for LiveConfigs pages than using them in parallel, i.e. each is fed by a different independent controller. So you seemingly aim for multiple players.

Are you sure, that a single PC will have enough performance for all this ?

Due to necessary low latency setting, for live playing you do need enough PC performance headroom to be sure that no crackles will occur.

-Michael

[Soli Deo Gloria]

Well, you´ve got the point! Indeed, I´ve got various scenarios in mind :

- A relatively small ensemble (up to 5 instrumentalists and 1-4 voices, as told above) with light Vstis/Vsts (Synth1, FM8, Reaplugs, etc.). This can be handled by a reasonable setup, I think (I am testing an I5 netbook for this purpose during these days, but don´t discard using a desktop machine with better specs).

- A medium ensemble (say 12 performers or so) with heavy-weight Vstis and light Vsts. Since I have an I7 PC with 32 gbs of ram and SSD for the OS/programs, I can - almost ;) - assure this is totally feasible. A dedicated machine with these specs assembled for live usage is an expensive solution, but viable in any case.

- Symphonic-type works, with high latency (1024)and a PC similar to the one mentioned in the previous example. I am even considering this type of usage for studio work, above all for synth and FXs handling in many parallel tracks. A single CC could provide, on each track, many changes that would need many automation/CC lanes in some cases...


With such an implementation, pages could maybe be named/labeled for easier handling. In any case, it would be up to the programmer to realize how much is possible with the available setup...

[mschnell]

Besides desktop and laptop there are "embedded" PC designs.

I use a fanless i7 with 16 GB Ram and SSD built in a trunk together with an AD/box and DIs. On stage no Monitor,mouse or Computer keyboard connected.

-> http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=156724

-Michael

[Soli Deo Gloria]

Wow, that´s quite a sophisticated setup, really! I´ve just seen it available here in Argentina, in a local shopping website. As predictable, it is not precisely cheap, but neither unreasonable... I´ll take note of this and probably will ask you a question or two in the future; thanks for the data!

OK, I could build multiple or even many patch pages but for my application, up to 64 sounds is by far enough.

Regarding this, does it mean that you could effectively add the functionality I mentioned above to the Live Configs? If so, I could even willingly pay for it, you can be sure. And in that case, would it be fine if I request it to you, or should I ask Jeffos first?

[Soli Deo Gloria]

On stage no Monitor,mouse or Computer keyboard connected.

One more thing : does it imply that monitor, mouse and keyboard are backstage, in a wireless fashion?

[mschnell]

One more thing : does it imply that monitor, mouse and keyboard are backstage, in a wireless fashion?

Nope. Just unused and detached when usually playing. Only necessary for configuration. (This is an "embedded" device.)

-Michael

[mschnell]

Regarding this, does it mean that you could effectively add the functionality I mentioned above to the Live Configs?

True in multiple ways.

1) SWS (of which LiveConfigs is just a part) is an open source product and so it can be enhanced in any possible way.

In fact I already suggested to split the "SWS extensions" in multiple stand-alone parts one of which would be LiveConfigs. I offered to become the maintainer of that new LibeConfigs version, but got no amnswer to that.


2) Everything that LiveConfigs does can be done with things like Reaper Scripts. But creating such scripts would be a lot of work.

-Michael

[Soli Deo Gloria]

Well, that´s good to know!

Yesterday I took a look at the Live Configs in order to test a couple of things regarding my specific needs. Apart from the number of pages and a couple of other things that I would change, the most limiting aspect of it is due not to anything related to the Live Configs themselves but to the way Reaper handles its own preset system... I don´t know your opinion, but the import/export option for the RPLs is really problematic -at least for me - because of a simple fact : it seems to behave globally, so every time I import in a FX instance a preset library, I end up affecting the other instances as well... Now, there is the ability to use FX copies on each project path, which can be a great help in this sense (I mean, to have specific presets for each instance) but then there is the issue that I´ve seen plugins that won´t acccept to be renamed or moved from their installation location.

I tried also with track templates, but at first glance it seems to need a little more time to load (depending on the plugs), and to make little changes it doesn´t seem as efficient - correct me if I am wrong, anyway -. If there was a way to load fxps on each Fx, that would ease preset handling in my case, maybe...

I´ll be watching closely the Live Configs during the next months, and I´ll have to decide between this and Bidule Vst/Vsti as FX host on each track, which allows the greatest degree of control of every aspect of the system. I´ll write to you if I have more questions, and I really hope that these extensions will continue to evolve...

[mschnell]

I don't understand what exactly you mean about RPLs.

What I do is this:

- define a plugin in a track.
- configure it to do what it should do in this track.
- use the little [+] symbol on the border Reaper draws around the plugin's GUI
- save the preset with a dedicated name
- configure LiveConfigs to unmute this track and load that preset to that plugin.

Of course this can be done with multiple plugins in a track.

Of course using the same pluging in another track (or multiple times in the same track) requires multiple different preset names.

I use this e.g. for Kontakt and same uses the library that is denoted by the appropriate preset.

Is this what you mean ?

(Some plugins may have some private setup parameters that will not be published as VST parameters. If you want to investigate in depth what is happening you might want to take a look at the (VST-) parameters that reaper will show you for the plugin (e.g. for automation). These are the parameters that are stored tn the "presets".)

-Michael

[Soli Deo Gloria]

Is this what you mean ?

Exactly! But the problem - to my taste -, is that Reaper´s preset system is global, not on a per-instance basis. I mean, if you save presets for each instance of, say, ReaEQ in a project, and you do this with each project you work on, everytime you add a new instance of ReaEQ you´ll get an insanely long/crowded list of all your presets, and that´s a real problem, at least for me. As commented above, with the new ability to use FXs on a project basis, this could theoretically be solved by placing copies of the FXs you are going to use in the project folder, but this method would have other downsides that make it also unappealing to me in this case.

You probably know that with NI´s great synths (Massive, Absynth and FM8) you don´t have this problem since they have this wonderful method where you can enable a bank of 128 programs that are reported to the host as presets. But with most other plugins, I find it problematic...

I am currently solving this by using Bidule as an FX on each track (which is my essential tool for most programming tasks, by the way). By setting everything inside a group module, I can change configurations of any reported parameter inside the whole system with a single preset change. There is some work to set up everything correctly, but the degree of control you get in the end is absolutely supreme. I am certainly interested in Live Configs as an alternative, but for my needs I would need it to be coupled with a per-instance preset system in Reaper...

[mschnell]

Reaper´s preset system is global, not on a per-instance basis.
You can save different presets - each with a different name - for multiple instances of the same plugin and have LiveConfigs call one of them for any instance of that plugin in that projects when activating one config line.

But you are right this is not on a per Project base, as the setups are stored each in a file with the name you give it.

So in multiple projects you would need to use new names, if you want new setups (Or use the same names if you want to handle them globally, which might - or might not - make sense.

-Michael

[Soli Deo Gloria]

Well, that´s the problem to my taste...to have a global list with all the presets of all your projects (or, in any case, to have to copy the dlls of the FXs to each project directory with another name to have dedicated presets lists) it´s not viable to me. I hope this can be modified at any point of Reaper´s development...

[mschnell]

to have to copy the dlls of the FXs to each project directory with another name to have dedicated presets lists

I suppose it would be much easier to save the presets with a new project - specific name and with that create a net entry in the plugin's "ini" file in the Reaper "presets" directory.

Maybe there is an easy way to change the "presets" directory itself when changing the project (maybe a "feature request" ?!?!? )

-Michael

[Soli Deo Gloria]

I suppose it would be much easier to save the presets with a new project - specific name and with that create a net entry in the plugin's "ini" file in the Reaper "presets" directory.

Maybe there is an easy way to change the "presets" directory itself when changing the project (maybe a "feature request" ?!?!? )

-Michael

Both are good ideas, indeed. Besides, an imported preset library (.rpl) should affect only its corresponding FX instance. Broadly speaking, more preset management options are badly needed, in my humble opinion. I don´t know if these improvements could be handled by scripts; if so, maybe an implementation could be nearer in the future than a native one which is, of course, uncertain...

[Jeffos]

Just a heads up: starting with SWS v2.8.6, the action section "S&M Extension" will be removed (this section is useless now, it was introduced to workaround some old API limitations...). All related actions, including the Live Config tool's "MIDI/OSC" actions have been moved to to the "Main" section. So, if you have learned some of these actions, you will need to update your controller bindings. Sorry for the trouble, they won't change again...

BTW, there is a bunch of updates for the Live Config tool: fixed possible stuck notes vs sustain pedal events, improved preset support, a new option "Disarm all but active track", etc. These updates are available in the SWS v2.8.6 pre-release (see http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php?p=1460962&postcount=1), feedback is welcome.
More to come, perhaps...


One question about the number of simultaneous live configs available : in the manual it says that we can use up to 8 configs but in the window, as well as in the actions list, I can only see 4... has anything changed since then? I´m using the latest version of Reaper with SWS extensions v2.8.3.
I've added support for up to 8 controllers/configs.


2) Everything that LiveConfigs does can be done with things like Reaper Scripts. But creating such scripts would be a lot of work.

I don't think so. Well, you can do a lot with scripts... but, for a start, it'd be hard to ensure glitch-free switches and to smooth talkative MIDI/OSC controller inputs while giving OSC and/or GUI feedback at the same time, etc

[mschnell]

Well, you can do a lot with scripts... but, for a start, it'd be hard to ensure glitch-free switches and to smooth talkative MIDI/OSC controller inputs while giving OSC and/or GUI feedback at the same time, etc
Yep ! I recommend LiveConfigs to many musicians, because I really think it's a perfect tool for the job.

Thanks a lot,
-Michael

[mschnell]

...These updates are available in the SWS v2.8.6 pre-release (see http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php?p=1460962&postcount=1), feedback is welcome.
More to come, perhaps...

Sounds Great !

I just hope it will not break my live playing setup (not using any actions at all) that is driven by LiveConfigs.

If there are fixes and enhancements they of course are welcome.


To decently test it, I would need to install the beta version on the same PC but be able to go on using the proven version for production. Is this somehow possible ?


You do remember that I did an update to the user manual reflecting the current version. Do you want me to update it to the version to come ?

Thanks again,
-Michael

[Jeffos]

To decently test it, I would need to install the beta version on the same PC but be able to go on using the proven version for production. Is this somehow possible ?

Sure. To make it safe, you can 1) work on copies of your production RPP files (I mean RPP files with your Live Config data)
2) you can rename the "stable" reaper_sws.dll you are using (or .dylib on OS X) into something like __stable_reaper_sws.dll, and then install the SWS beta (this way, you can restore the backup/stable version at any time).


You do remember that I did an update to the user manual reflecting the current version. Do you want me to update it to the version to come ?

Yes, I remember, and thanks a lot for that (again)!
Feel free to update the doc, but may be wait for the next few SWS versions to come: things will probably evolve again (moving some code from a separate extension to the SWS open source...).

BTW, may be I'll tweak this doc too... Do you have an editable version of doc to share? (googledoc or something?)

[Soli Deo Gloria]

Hi Jeffos!

Thanks so much for the update!! Eight configs is a nice number, indeed! I am designing a setup for a band I will join again after some break, and Live Configs are a great tool; Reaper´s community cannot thank you enough for your achievement.

One question : is it possible to load for each FX a set of fxps? In the Set Preset menu, I see the fxp format mentioned, but it doesn´t seem to allow loading it.

Right now, for the type of maneuvers we´re needing in this project - and mainly due to Reaper´s handling of its own preset system, in a global fashion -, I´m using Bidule in a Reaper´s track to host FXs and handle presets and programming in the most flexible way. Nevertheless, I´m using extensively Live Config´s Monitor Window, which is just perfect to have feedback of the changes I trigger with a left-foot pedal, and I even integrate it with your wonderful MIDItoReaControl plug, which allows me to send back some manipulated CC in Bidule to ascend/descend through the Config list in sync with Bidule´s changes (!)

Right now, I have to say everything is gorgeous regarding this tool. If you want a couple of ideas, I can leave the following to your consideration :

- An option to go back (in all simultaneous) configs to a user-specified slot with a dedicated action. For example, I´m using CC24 to load next slot and CC25 to go back to the previous one. With this idea, CC26 (assigned to this new action) could go back to 0, 1 or any slot number one specifies...

- An option to float independently and/or simultaneously the monitor windows of all Configs. Not right now, but at some point, I´ll be in charge of a project with 5 controllers and 2 voices. If you´re in the computer supervising everything, it could be useful to have an insight of the changes of each performer - with the possibility to trigger a change if something went wrong with one of them -.

Just a couple of ideas, in case you consider them of any value. As I said before, Reaper´s preset handling needs a revision, for my taste, but this tool is already, as mschnell says, a wonderful approach to using Reaper as a live musical instrument.

Greets!

[mschnell]

- An option to go back (in all simultaneous) configs to a user-specified slot with a dedicated action. For example, I´m using CC24 to load next slot and CC25 to go back to the previous one. With this idea, CC26 (assigned to this new action) could go back to 0, 1 or any slot number one specifies...

I did a (set of) jsfx'es that does this "on top of LiveConfigs". It defines songs and preset "steps" in songs. (Each preset "step" in a song is assigned to (e.g.) a LiveConfigs line). Right now it is controlled by PC keyboard shortcuts but I am planning to make it listen to Midi events.

With this additional level of abstraction you can set up the LiveConfigs table just according to the sounds/patches, independently form the performance you are planning.

This Toolset also features a nice sizable display.

-Michael

[Soli Deo Gloria]

Well, that sounds incredibly useful! Have you publicly released any of them?

[mschnell]

Well, that sounds incredibly useful! Have you publicly released any of them?

Not yet, but planning.

Please read the description here -> http://www.bschnell.de/patch.pdf

If you think you like it I will send you the files and we can work together on extending it to Midi receiving (please send me you e-mail address in a personal message).

-Michael

[Soli Deo Gloria]

Thanks so much, mschnell! I´ve already sent you a pm, so we´ll continue by mail...

[mschnell]

Sure. To make it safe, you can 1) work on copies of your production RPP files (I mean RPP files with your Live Config data)
2) you can rename the "stable" reaper_sws.dll you are using (or .dylib on OS X) into something like __stable_reaper_sws.dll, and then install the SWS beta (this way, you can restore the backup/stable version at any time).


Just to let you know:

Did that and installed the new prerelease version (Windows X64).

In my setup, it did not work right away: It did not react on the messages sent.

later this day, I will try to learn the messages again.

-Michael

[mschnell]

Hi Jeffos,

After Re-learning the CC it seems to work as expected. The Content of the Config I used (Just #1) seems still completely in place.

So it's just a very small glitch that the new version did not automatically understand the learned CC and channel.

Is there anything I should especially test with LiveConfigs ?

-Michael

[Glacierise]

Hi,

Thanks for the great work! I was just about to write about not being able to switch configs using automation, but I found your MidiToReaControl plugin and now it works! Crazy stuff is possible here, working on it :)

[mschnell]

In fact I don't know who provided the extremely useful MidiToReaControlPath VST.

Anyway, great that you got up to speed ! (Do you remember that in August I pointed you to -> http://www.bschnell.de/LiveConfigs_1.pdf ? )

Have fun !
-Michael

[mschnell]

Please kindly advise with sufficient details how I can trigger selection and playback of midi backing track region which has multiple regions using midi controller button. Please help with required scripts and or details

Please let me know how a single midi note can play multiple instruments sounds on a midi backing track How to setup this midi backing track

Thank You All Again

SWS provides Actions to play regions (each backing "track" would be a region, while the tracks are different midi/audio files).

Now you can use a LiveConfigs page ("Config") to fire those actions upon an incoming midi CC event. If your "button" creates other midi events than CC you would need to use a JSFX as converter and use MidiTopReaControlPath to sent the CC to LiveConfigs.

With that Reaper can do stuff some will need to engage Ableton Live.

See -> http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=144207

Reaper Rocks
-Michael

[mschnell]

Support OSC learn (OSC messages with float parameters)
- Example: say you have learned the action "SWS/S&M: Apply Live Config 3 (MIDI CC/OSC only)" with the OSC message "/blabla",
sending "/blabla/f/107" will switch to the instrument/effect #107 of the Live Config #3
This does not seem to work.

(Using OSCIIBot as a sender) I can learn "/blabla" but "/blabla/f/107"does not switch the config-line :(

I tested learning in LiveConfigs itself and learning the action in the action list.

BTW.: what is meant by the colomn title "comment / OSC message" regarding OSC ?

-Michael

[daeavelwyn]

Hi folks,

I'm not sure this is the right topic to discuss this, but I got an issue with Live Config and cannot understand what goes wrong !

So, here is a GIF to a better understanding of my problem :
https://i.imgur.com/XnZfZbb

Easy step to reproduce :
1- Open Reaper and create 4 tracks.
2- Set the MIDI input and all other stuff in TRACK 1 which will be INPUT track
3- Set the 3 others tracks with different instruments/VSTi
4- Set SWS/S&M: Live Config #1 - Apply config (MIDI/OSC only) to CC14
5- As you can see in the GIF (ReacontrolMIDI on track INPUT), CC14 send value 0, then 1 then 2, then 3
But Live Config doesn't change the patch/slot (don't know the right word).

How can I debug this ?

[mschnell]

But Live Config doesn't change the patch/slot (don't know the right word).
I can't view the picture :(

What kind of event do you create to make the LiveConfig "page" switch to another "line" ?

You might want to take a look at the sicky thtread in this forum and the revised LiveConfig manual at http://www.bschnell.de/LiveConfigs_1.pdf

-Michael

[daeavelwyn]

Hi mschnell,

Ok so, after hours of fighting with those stuff I found the solution. MIDI Shortcut HAS TO BE SET TO "ABSOLUTE"
It was set to relative by default....

So thanks for your help and for the PDF, this little sentence At the moment, only controllers with absolute MIDI Control Change (CC) messages are supported and the image of your MIDI shortcut assignation made my day !

now start the funnier part, play music !