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SHadlington
02-06-2012, 09:13 AM
Here is an acoustic track.

As always advice on how to record acoustic tracks is always welcome. comments and criticism are welcome also.

http://soundcloud.com/scott-hadlington/acoustic1

HImey Himron
02-06-2012, 09:33 AM
Composition wise, I like this. It is a beautiful song. It reminds me of something, but I cannot say exactly what.

Recording technique wise...
I can't tell you if this is the "reaper forum accepted" method of recording acoustic but here is what I use for my guitar.

1 line is K&K ultra pure mini (this is an under bridge piezo electric pickup).
1 line is Shure sm57a (about6 inches away pointed at the sound hole 45-60 degree angle)
2 lines are stereo mix of the line and mic.

the stereo mixes are panned 100% left and right then the line is 25% left and the mic is 25% right. Or something close to that usually.

On your particular recording the guitar sounds thinner than it should be.

this might just be a level problem. since you are letting the acoustic do all of the heavy lifting for the song you will want it to be as warm and present as possible.

If no one has suggested it yet you might want to read this...

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=29283

There is quite a bit of good information in that thread.

Having said all of that. Nice guitar and voice performance. I would like to see the technology not get in the way of what you are doing. Good luck!

J

SHadlington
02-06-2012, 09:51 AM
Thanks for the reply HImey Himron.

It was recoded with the guitar stereo line in and with a SE2000.

And then vocals after. Will defo read that article and try the panning that u have suggested.

Thanks.

Scott.

HImey Himron
02-06-2012, 11:26 AM
The other thing you might be able to do immediately without a re-recorded is simply copy and duplicate the guitar line to a new track. This will definitely thicken up the guitar and give you some options.

If memory serves me right you might also be able to split the stereo into 2 independent tracks. Maybe put a discreet room reverb on one and leave the other...

I guess that is the cool thing about the DAW and also the trap. It is a rabbit hole that you can follow farther and farther and farther...

Cheers,

J

Fex
02-06-2012, 01:49 PM
The song's pretty good. The guitar's fine, but as HImey says, a bit thin for the job in hand. It all depends on whether you're planning to add more instrumentation.

The vocal treatment doesn't do much for me, I'm afraid. I'd rather hear one well treated vocal than two messy ones. Actually, in this context, I think I might rather hear one messy vocal than two well treated ones, but YMMV. I just think it lacks focus, and neither vocal is well processed.

I heard a pop in the vox - watch out for that.

The high notes are ok, but you might get better results towards the top of your range if you bring the pitch down a semitone for recording (and back up for playback, of course). Any more than that and Mickey Mouse takes over.

The other thing you might be able to do immediately without a re-recorded is simply copy and duplicate the guitar line to a new track. This will definitely thicken up the guitar and give you some options.You'd have to exercise one of those options for it to sound different. Otherwise, it would just sound louder.

Eg, pan one left, pan one right. Press N to nudge one forward 5 milliseconds, and one back 5 milliseconds.

It's a simple but powerful effect, worth trying to see what it does. I don't think it's warranted here.

Recording technique wise...
I can't tell you if this is the "reaper forum accepted" method of recording acoustic but here is what I use for my guitar.

1 line is K&K ultra pure mini (this is an under bridge piezo electric pickup).
1 line is Shure sm57a (about6 inches away pointed at the sound hole 45-60 degree angle)
2 lines are stereo mix of the line and mic.

the stereo mixes are panned 100% left and right then the line is 25% left and the mic is 25% right. Or something close to that usually.I think the established wisdom is that pickups on acoustic guitars are not the right approach for recording, and that mics, exclusively are the way to go. The established wisdom can go hang - the DI sounds pretty good on HImey's tracks, and it's saved a few takes of mine when there have been gremlins in the mic circuit. Even so, it's not easy to mix a pickup so that it sounds natural.

My preferred approach uses two mics. One points at the guitar neck, one points at the body. Distance is critical. Both sound like crap in isolation, but very much like a guitar when combined. You get natural stereo if you want it (I have to use the performers perspective, because hearing my fret noise on the right and my pick on the left drives me nuts). Blend the two signals to taste.

SHadlington
02-06-2012, 02:39 PM
As always thank you for your time and advice its always appreciated.

you will have to forgive my lack of experience but what does well processed mean in reference to the vocals?

i have started reading through the guide that HImey Himron linked earlier. seems to be rather extensive i spend most of the last 3 hours reading it. Its very insightful. Though alot of what he says goes over my head for now.

I have re-uploaded the track with the 2nd vocal track removed and tried to beef up the guitar.

http://soundcloud.com/scott-hadlington/acoustic1v2

Thanks

Scott.

Fex
02-06-2012, 03:10 PM
you will have to forgive my lack of experience but what does well processed mean in reference to the vocals?I'd be happy to answer you question, Scott, but the truth is that my vocal tracks sound like crap, so I'll leave that one to the experts.

That said, if you want to post the separate tracks in a way that I can download them, I'll show you a trick or two. ;)

Your lead vocal track has way to much reverb on it, IMHO. It creates a mismatch with the guitar, and makes it hard to hear some of the words. I think the second version sounds a lot better, but I think the vocal is still a bit too loud for the guitar.

SHadlington
02-06-2012, 03:28 PM
Here are the vox.

http://www.filejungle.com/f/Yw4FDq/vox.zip

after re-reading that post at 1st i thought u meant just the vox did u mean all the tracks?

Fex
02-06-2012, 03:40 PM
Damn, you're fast.

It would help to have the guitar as a reference.

SHadlington
02-06-2012, 03:46 PM
Please let me know when u have both files so that i can activate the delete links on them both.

Thanks

Scott.

http://www.filejungle.com/f/sUmpvp/Guitars.zip

Fex
02-06-2012, 03:58 PM
I have both files.

Unfortunately, the reverb is printed on them. If you post dry files, I can add reverb the way I think it should be, but if I only have wet files, I can't take it off.

Also, MP3 is less than ideal for this sort of thing, to say the least. Post wav if you can.

Lawrence
02-06-2012, 03:58 PM
I was going to take a whack at this but the "Please wait 35 minutes to download the next file" thing ended that. :(

One two syllable word... DropBox. :)

Fex
02-06-2012, 04:12 PM
Odd - I had to wait about one minute.

Edit: Oh, the guitar.... I missed that completely!

I thought Scott meant both vox files.... D'OH!

Fex
02-06-2012, 04:33 PM
This will show you why MP3 and printed reverb are a bad idea, if nothing else.
You can hear artifacts all over "heard", for example, and many of the reverb tails are now pitched differently from the vocal.
I ended up drowning it in more reverb.
Not good.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53664537/S%20Hadlington/vox.mp3

SHadlington
02-06-2012, 05:14 PM
Im afraid the reverb is my fault i left the FX on whilst i was mixing down the individual tracks. cause i thought uploading MP3's would be that much easier and quicker cuz of their small file sizes. im currently uploading the WAV's in full from the project folder so there untouched.

Lawrence will be glad to know that im using dropbox this time not that i know how 2 use it lol.

EDIT>

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/60921827/full%20wavs.zip

Fex
02-06-2012, 05:27 PM
Keep doing what you're doing, and don't worry about it this time round, but for future reference, when you're sharing individual tracks with people, it helps if they start at the same place in the project. That way, we can just drop them into the DAW and start working without having to line the tracks up first. It took me a little while to match the guitar tracks with the vocal tracks. It also helps to know the tempo. I think we're around 140 BPM, is that right?

SHadlington
02-06-2012, 05:48 PM
Sorry about that.

The readout in reaper states 120BPM

and both vocal tracks start at exactly 28 seconds.

Fex
02-06-2012, 05:51 PM
Still working with MP3s. I've got a stereo thing going with the guitar, and a BF Delay on the vox. I'm on crappy heaphones (it's nearly 1.00 am) so this might sound terrible on speakers, but I think it's shaping up.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/53664537/S%20Hadlington/mix.mp3

Sorry about that.

The readout in reaper states 120BPMLOL
I suspect that this is because 120 BPM is Reaper's default tempo, and you didn't bother to change it!

It's a good idea to set the tempo before you start a project, even if you're not going to play to a click track.
In this case, I've got the delay VST synchronised with the tempo in Reaper, which I've set at 140 BPM, established by tapping the mouse along with the guitar.

Has this baby got a name? Hope it's The Soft Spot.

SHadlington
02-06-2012, 05:59 PM
LOL.

im showing my inexperience here aint i :P

Cheers dude i only got 12 quid headphones myself so should be all good :)

im with u on the 1am though. i always assumed cause ur around late at night that u was from the states or Australia or somewhere :P

Fex
02-06-2012, 06:19 PM
No, I'm just insane.

SHadlington
02-06-2012, 06:23 PM
The Mix sounds great. Cheers Fex. have a good night sleep :)