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-   -   Bitwig modulators, closest in Reaper, comparison of power? (https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=199813)

TonE 11-20-2017 05:05 PM

Bitwig modulators, closest in Reaper, comparison of power?
 
Bitwig has modulators, what does Reaper have which is closest, and how powerful can Reaper be against Bitwig modulators? In terms of flexibility, usability, easy to setup. Or asked in a different way: Coolest way to setup modulators in Reaper.

Xenakios 11-20-2017 05:49 PM

The parameter modulation system that is in Reaper isn't great (which doesn't mean it's completely horrible, just not great) and I think it can't be properly replaced with 3rd party code either. I have seen nicer to use and more advanced implementations in other hosts.

BitWig may have the best parameter modulation currently available within a "normal" host. (Obviously things like Max/MSP offer even more control over such things but for example Max/MSP is not a typical track based host.)

deek 11-21-2017 01:26 AM

You can do a lot with Cableguys Midishaper - and it's not expensive

ReaDave 11-21-2017 09:37 AM

I personally really like the parameter modulation system in REAPER and use it frequently (on almost every project actually) but I agree with Xenakios that there's certainly plenty of room for improvement. It can be somewhat cumbersome to set up. What it does do though is extremely useful.

Gass n Klang 11-23-2017 09:03 AM

I don't like the modulation system at all. It's very complicated and unflexible compared to other DAWs. Regarding this, Bitwig is by far the best competitor on the market.

deeb 11-23-2017 11:16 AM

yes ! it +s not very intuitive. Just a little GUI improvement and small features and it would be far more useful and fun.
Copy paste modulations alone would be already very good

TonE 12-08-2017 12:09 PM

Bitwig chosen daw of the year 2017 by computer music magazine because of its modulators. Here are modulator tutorials
https://www.bitwig.com/en/community/..._Tutorial.html


mschnell 12-08-2017 01:27 PM

While technically seemingly very well done, to me, the effect is totally horrible and makes the track sound like played by a broken radio.

-Michael

Gass n Klang 12-09-2017 04:11 PM

While the musical content is a matter of taste, this is how modulators should work. It's just perfectly integrated. Flexible, optically attractive and clear. This really could raise reaper's flexibility to a new level.

ReaDave 12-09-2017 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang (Post 1923427)
While the musical content is a matter of taste, this is how modulators should work. It's just perfectly integrated. Flexible, optically attractive and clear. This really could raise reaper's flexibility to a new level.

Definitely agree regarding the visual appearance and functional integration there. Combine that with the power of REAPERs current modulation system and this would a huge step up.

mschnell 12-10-2017 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang (Post 1923427)
... This really could raise reaper's flexibility to a new level.

I am absolutely sure that I will never use such a Modulator. But agree about quality of the technical implementation shown.

But OK, with certain artists, killing the artist's performance is a viable endeavor.

Generally, IMHO this is not a decent task for a DAW, but a "special effect" that should be done by using an appropriate plugin.

Those "specialist" who do want to create such an effect do have a great choice of plugins that do all kinds of modulations: just route the audio to a dedicated track that holds such a plugin.

-Michael

Gass n Klang 12-10-2017 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mschnell (Post 1923513)
Those "specialist" who do want to create such an effect do have a great choice of plugins that do all kinds of modulations: just route the audio to a dedicated track that holds such a plugin.

Not exactly. I own Bitwig 2 even though I don't do any electronic music stuff. The major advantage with these DAW internal modifiers is that they are plugin independent. You can modify whichever plugin you want. The even more inportant point is: You can link several plugin parameters to the same modifier in different relations or inverted. Bitwigs goal is to by fully modular and even allow this track independent. So the modifier that changes the frequqncy of your LPF on one track could modify the reverb tail of another track. This opens a huge playground for any style of music. In addition: It's dead easy to use and damn fast!
I use Reaper because of its flexibility and the amazingly fast workflow. Modulators are one thing it takes a lot of time as soon as it gets a little bit more complex that just standard.

Even if it's not the most needed feature at the moment: I'm sure many users will find new amazing and creative ways to work with this kind of modulators as soon as they'll have the possibility...

deeb 12-10-2017 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang (Post 1923602)

Even if it's not the most needed feature at the moment: I'm sure many users will find new amazing and creative ways to work with this kind of modulators as soon as they'll have the possibility...

for electronic music is very need for sure.

TonE 12-10-2017 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gass n Klang (Post 1923602)
Modulators are one thing it takes a lot of time as soon as it gets a little bit more complex that just standard.

But this only because you did not create powerful enough custom actions which can just jump to the end result immediately, and you do it all by hand. As you know Reaper is crazy, it can do anything you can imagine. Just imagine.

One example, swell:


mschnell 12-10-2017 03:20 PM

Yep. In Reaper, a "special effect" is not necessarily a plugin, but can be a script, as well :)

-Michael

deeb 12-11-2017 05:19 PM

common the topic is modulations supported by de DAW! which is a great feature!
Saying Anything else sorry but can't be serious ..

mschnell 12-11-2017 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeb (Post 1924397)
common the topic is modulations supported by de DAW! which is a great feature!
Saying Anything else sorry but can't be serious ..

Suggesting alternatives to wanting exactly this as an integrated feature of the main program, and pointing out that it obviously is only of interest for a limited part of the customers, and stating that it already is decently doable, is not at all of-topic.

-Michael

deeb 12-12-2017 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mschnell (Post 1924479)
Suggesting alternatives to wanting exactly this as an integrated feature of the main program, and pointing out that it obviously is only of interest for a limited part of the customers, and stating that it already is decently doable, is not at all of-topic.

-Michael

Michael! sorry but any feature is always usable by a limited part of users. Ex: Not everyone will need Ara support, not everyone needs automation items, not everyone needs OSC support.
Someone that clearly does not use this features: example ARA - stating the support of them is already decently doable is not the best opinion we can have, and 99% of the requests would be filled with this arguments against, since day 1.

Anyway!

Gass n Klang 12-12-2017 04:10 AM

exactly! Everything that helps to bring the DAW to the fore is a good trend. Scripting is nice but it never can replace native functions in terms of efficiency and clarity (at least not for the normal, non-programming user)

mschnell 12-12-2017 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deeb (Post 1924530)
ARA

ARA support - in fact any decently using of Melodyne - can't be achieved by a plugin. This needs to be provided by the main program, while modulation already can be done in many ways without needing an upgrade to Reaper. So this is a completely different issue on that behalf.

(I don't use either of Melodyne/ARA, automation items, or OSC support by Reaper itself. For me, SWS LiveConfigs, JSFX programmability, and OSCII-Bot - to name some -, are mission critical.)

-Michael

deeb 12-12-2017 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mschnell (Post 1924627)
(I don't use either of Melodyne/ARA, automation items, or OSC support by Reaper itself. For me, SWS LiveConfigs, JSFX programmability, and OSCII-Bot - to name some -, are mission critical.)

-Michael

this is the beauty of diversity : )

TonE 12-12-2017 01:10 PM

Reaper has envelopes, it has lua, now just make it so, one click generating any envelope you desire on last touched control. For me this is same as modulators. You only need to create the library yourself.


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