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-   -   Announcing Playtime, a Session View for REAPER (https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=149712)

helgoboss 11-08-2014 05:46 PM

Announcing Playtime, a Session View for REAPER
 
Dear REAPER users,

for those of you who want a Session View la Ableton Live in REAPER: Now there is one. It's called Playtime. Technically, it's a VST instrument that makes heavy use of REAPER's awesome extension API.

Playtime is available here. Please check it out and let me know what you think. Would appreciate any feedback :)

Cheers
Ben

http://www.helgoboss.org/projects/pl...e-non-invasive

Viente 11-08-2014 06:10 PM

Video "in action" would be great ;)

gwok 11-08-2014 06:13 PM

need osx asap!!! :)

EpicSounds 11-08-2014 06:30 PM

This looks pretty awesome and a feature many have been asking for
I also hope OSX version is not too far off.

Benjamin, please get in contact with me via email audiogeekzine[at]gmail.com

Commala 11-08-2014 06:33 PM

Thank you, this is outstanding! Great work, and just what I was looking for.

Breeder 11-08-2014 06:35 PM

Insane! Great job!

unique 11-08-2014 06:40 PM

Away from DAW at the moment. Looks like a handy tool though. If it has a good impact on workflow ill definitely give it a go.

rjshama 11-08-2014 07:07 PM

This looks very interesting but 30 minutes is not enough playtime. Considering how Reaper handles it's trial version you might want to rethink that. You're not asking for much money so that may not be an issue for Reaper users who don't want to chunk out $500 for Live.

Nice work!

gwok 11-08-2014 09:22 PM

this looks awesome!!

nathanj 11-08-2014 10:39 PM

Wow! This does look amazing. I'm continually amazed at the depth of REAPER and it's community.

Eagerly awaiting the OSX build!

gwok 11-08-2014 11:18 PM

Why is it not recommended to leave anticipative fx on and media buffering? I rely heavily on this.

Can it be left on and still have stable playback? A little less than instantaneous triggering is fine.

sinkmusic 11-09-2014 01:42 AM

This seems like an amazing plugin : congratulation for your creation !
Being able to use a midi controller with it is great.

Did you talk to Cockos before releasing it into the wild ?
I'm just asking, as i wish that such a beautiful and useful feature would have been natively integrated into Reaper (instead of being a 3d party vst). Maybe that, just like with Elastique, they could have been interested into licensing it, or find a deal with you to straightly embed it into Reaper ?

sinkmusic 11-09-2014 01:49 AM

msvcr120.dll error is shown at startup (Reaper64bit, win7)

sinkmusic 11-09-2014 01:54 AM

PS : Is there a printable PDF manual somewhere ?
After installation, i don't see any in the VST plugin folder (neither in "start menu > playtime").

pipelineaudio 11-09-2014 01:59 AM

Interesting!

gpunk_w 11-09-2014 03:15 AM

Didn't install the track template as mentioned in the instructions, besides that it is a one stop shop i guess, all this can already be done in Reaper using SWS actions (because i already have it set up, SWS seems much easier to me personally) i will test more and see if anything jumps out as new and exciting though ;)

For me, this should have been built in to the project bay from day 1, the project bay may have had some use !

helgoboss 11-09-2014 03:25 AM

Thanks everyone for your feedback and nice words! This is encouraging :)

@Viente
My plan is to create some tutorial videos this month.

@gwok @EpicSounds @nathanj
OSX support is on the very top of my priority list.

@EpicSounds
Looking forward to get in contact with you.

@Commala @Breeder @unique
Thank you!

@rjshama
Thanks for the input. When the 30 minutes are over, you can always remove Playtime from the FX chain and add it again. I can understand though that if you want to evaluate a large setup with many clips that 30 minutes is too little. Rethinking ... :)

@gwok
Yes, you can tell Playtime not to mess with the track's anticipative FX and media buffering settings if you are fine with the triggering latency (Playtime preferences). In that case you can still reduce the global media buffer size in the REAPER preferences to tune the latency.

Please note that Playtime turns off anticipative FX and media buffering just for the tracks which have Playtime clips, not globally. I think most of the times, users want instantaneous clip triggering. That's why it is the default setting.

During my tests I didn't experience any lags with that default setting. I didn't test with SSD only, also with an external USB2 5400rpm hard disk. Same result. That's why I recommend sticking to the Playtime default setting.

@sinkmusic
Thank you! Infact I tried to contact Cockos some months ago to talk about that but they were probably busy :) Then I was thinking it's not that bad to have it as an optional plugin because not everybody needs a session view and is willing to pay for it. So I moved on.

Thanks for spotting the missing DLL. I'm working on a bugfix release. Installing the Visual C++ Redistributable Packages should fix it: http://www.microsoft.com/de-de/downl....aspx?id=40784.

Right now there's no offline PDF manual, just the online user guide. But it's a no-brainer to provide that. I created a ticket.

Ben

Lazarus 11-09-2014 03:59 AM

Very nice, great work - just bought it. One teeny weeny thing that would be great to see would be having an option to insert an empty MIDI clip in a slot. Oh, and being able to rename the Groups independently of the tracks they are assigned to.

Cheers!

sinkmusic 11-09-2014 04:12 AM

I think the installer is a bit strange : first, it ask where you want to install the 32bit, then it ask where you want to install the 64bit version, then it asks you if you want to install both : why not asking first, once and for all which version to install ?
It might be less confusing...

sinkmusic 11-09-2014 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helgoboss (Post 1426908)
Right now there's no offline PDF manual, just the online user guide. But it's a no-brainer to provide that. I created a ticket.

Thank you.
The good thing with PDF is that it is more easy to take on a USB stick, to print, or to put in Reaper Documentation folder (and then it can be opened directly from within Reaper, just like Reaper manual).

G-Sun 11-09-2014 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helgoboss (Post 1426788)
Playtime is available here. Please check it out and let me know what you think. Would appreciate any feedback :)

Cool! Thanks!

gwok 11-09-2014 12:11 PM

do you think it'd be viable to instead of moving the items to the beginning of the project, to be able to set the media items offline and retain their placement?

(Offline is advantageous over muting items I think, because mute states are retained when the items are returned online.)


Though maybe there's some technical reasons why you chose to move them as opposed to other methods?

sinkmusic 11-09-2014 12:54 PM

Or to create a copy of the original projet as a new tab (i don't know if it would be possible, though) ?

Sunaj 11-09-2014 01:02 PM

question : can you time stretch individual notes or blocks? if so i'm almost sold

Jed 11-09-2014 01:14 PM

Fantastic development! - no more using Live to jam in Ninjam :)

Thanks heaps for your efforts here Ben

Cheers
Jed

plamuk 11-09-2014 01:18 PM

thank you.

Alex Ortega 11-09-2014 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helgoboss (Post 1426788)
Dear REAPER users,

for those of you who want a Session View la Ableton Live in REAPER: Now there is one. It's called Playtime. Technically, it's a VST instrument that makes heavy use of REAPER's awesome extension API.

Playtime is available here. Please check it out and let me know what you think. Would appreciate any feedback :)

Cheers
Ben

http://www.helgoboss.org/projects/pl...e-non-invasive

Cool! Thanks!

Xenakios 11-09-2014 01:38 PM

Interesting product, I wish the developer the best success!

helgoboss 11-09-2014 03:09 PM

Just released Playtime 1.0.1. The installer should be less confusing now and the problem with the missing "msvcr120.dll" should be gone. Thanks @sinkmusic for reporting both issues!

BTW, it would be outstanding if you guys could report issues and propose new features here. Then it's easy for me to keep track of them and you can be notified about progress. If you register, you can even vote for feature proposals.

@gpunk_w
Thanks for trying it! I've not stumbled upon the track template issue yet. Do you mind sending me the contents of your "C:\Program Files\Playtime\InstallationLogFile.log"? Then I might be able to find the cause.

@Lazarus
Congratulations, you were the first buyer :) I just created tickets for the MIDI clip and group renaming proposals. Would be very nice to keep the discussion regarding these proposals in the ticket system.

@G-Sun @Jed @nym @Alex Ortega @Xenakios
Many thanks!

@gwok
I chose stowing away the non-playing clips to the beginning of the track so they are in one place and not distributed all over the timeline. That way, users can still access them and modify them without having to open Playtime.

I chose moving for triggering the clips because it can be done in realtime (didn't want to mess with the track state chunks, I think that might take too long).

Setting the non-playing clips offline vs. muting them might be an option I didn't look into it yet. Any idea how to achieve that using the API?

@sinkmusic
Not sure I understand what you mean by "Or to create a copy of the original project as a new tab". Can you elaborate? Maybe I'm missing some context information here :)

@Sunaj
Playtime works on item level. If necessary, it stretches the item and thus all notes within the item (if it's a MIDI item). To be fair, REAPER does the actual stretching :) Playtime just tells REAPER to do so. What do you mean by "block"?

EvilDragon 11-09-2014 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helgoboss (Post 1427139)
@gwok
I chose stowing away the non-playing clips to the beginning of the track so they are in one place and not distributed all over the timeline. That way, users can still access them and modify them without having to open Playtime.

I chose moving for triggering the clips because it can be done in realtime (didn't want to mess with the track state chunks, I think that might take too long).

Might it be implemented as an option to leave the items where they are? (Isn't that how Live is actually working?)

Other than that, this is a very commendable effort! Congratulations. :)

Sleep opposed 11-09-2014 03:25 PM

Looking forward to trying this out...im sure this is going to attract a shitload of interest, great job!

sinkmusic 11-09-2014 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by helgoboss (Post 1427139)
@gwok
I chose stowing away the non-playing clips to the beginning of the track so they are in one place and not distributed all over the timeline. That way, users can still access them and modify them without having to open Playtime.

I chose moving for triggering the clips because it can be done in realtime (didn't want to mess with the track state chunks, I think that might take too long).

Setting the non-playing clips offline vs. muting them might be an option I didn't look into it yet. Any idea how to achieve that using the API?

@sinkmusic
Not sure I understand what you mean by "Or to create a copy of the original project as a new tab". Can you elaborate? Maybe I'm missing some context information here :)

I was just thinking out loud, without tring Playtime yet ;)
I meant : If Playtime moves the items to the beginning of the project, in order not to screw my project, it might be a solution to silently create an archive otthe project in the existing state, in a new project tab.

For instance, i have made a song, and i am pretty much happy with it as it is. The structure is done, and it can be considered as "finished"
But, after a while, i can suddenly want to jam with it, or create an alternate/extended version on the fly : so, Playtime gets into action, but, i wouldn't want (after a great playtime which i will ant to keep also as a new version of my "song") to lose my song in the state it was before being "playtimed"... So, having a "ghost" version autmatically created in a new Project tab when i start messing aroud with Playtime would avoid losing a song. Does it make sense ?
(sorry if i missed something obvious, again, i'm just thinking out loud)

Again, i am still mesmerized by the existence of Playtime, and i wish it could be natively integrated thightly into Reaper ;)

BenK-msx 11-09-2014 03:53 PM

looks v cool,
regarding moving items, easiest seems to have option to copy rather than move, potentially rippling main project forward in time so its all still there 'or something' ;)

now to hunt down my under-used loops and give this a try.

helgoboss 11-09-2014 04:16 PM

@EvilDragon @sinkmusic @BenK-msx

Well, the clips (= items which are under Playtime's control) are not supposed to stay where they are. They are meant to "wander". All other items (non-clips) are there to stay. Playtime never touches them. If you hit the "Write" button, all the written items will remain in place, not messed up by Playtime.

So I think what you're worried about is the clip loading feature. What I can offer is a new way of loading items into Playtime so they become clips: "Fill with copy of selected item". Instead of moving the item itself, Playtime would copy it and move the copy to the start of the timeline. What do you think? @BenK-msx Maybe this is what you were suggesting?

sinkmusic 11-09-2014 04:36 PM

Ok, i just tried it quickly, and this thing is wonderful, it's a blast, i'm loving it !
I really wish Cockos can see how fun and powerful and efficient such a tool is.
https://i.imgur.com/nD8JO9X.gif

The new installer works fine now (Win7, 64bit, and no more xmqlsjhfdg172.dll missing).

FR :
- being able to rename the groups ;
- being able to copy a clip from a scene into another (like in Live) ;
- being able to copy/paste a scene into another scene ;
- having (like in Live) the Ability to define a play mode (like : "play 2 times and then go to the clip below/above" or "play once and go to a random clip" or "play once and stop", etc).

helgoboss 11-09-2014 04:37 PM

Hi Alex,

do you run 64-bit REAPER? Looks like REAPER tries to load Playtime 32-bit in REAPER 64-bit (bridging mode). Or the other way around, not sure. Playtime doesn't work in bridging mode. The VST path in REAPER is probably not set correctly.

Please have a look in section "1 Installation" of the user guide.

Lazarus 11-09-2014 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Ortega (Post 1427164)
does not work

You need to use the 64 bit version so that it runs in the same process as Reaper because you are running the 32 bit version bridged. This means it's technically not running in Reaper, but a thing called reaper_host32. Make sure you set the 64 bit directory correctly when you install Playtime.

Alex Ortega 11-09-2014 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarus (Post 1427172)
You need to use the 64 bit version so that it runs in the same process as Reaper because you are running the 32 bit version bridged. This means it's technically not running in Reaper, but a thing called reaper_host32. Make sure you set the 64 bit directory correctly when you install Playtime.

thanks, works)

Nixon 11-09-2014 05:13 PM

This looks very promising :) Count me in when OSX version arrives.
Highly appreciated.
Regards

PitchSlap 11-09-2014 06:48 PM

This looks pretty neat, though I have mixed feelings as I hope it doesn't prevent native implementation of this long-awaited functionality.

Any chance of implementing something like Live/Bitwig's follow actions? That's a pretty important feature in my experience.

I also think it would be nice to have better undo support in the future. I'll be following this closely and highly considering a purchase.

Great job!


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