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Dedicated Drum/Percussion Sampler Issue Tools
issueid=544 07-12-2009 09:01 PM
Human being with feelings
Dedicated Drum/Percussion Sampler
1 drum, multi-sample, velocity mapped, pre-viewable

ReasamplOmatic5000 is great, but perhaps not flexible enough for dynamic multi-sample mapping. Most of my drum samples consist of at least 4, maybe up to 10 samples per sound. Sometimes more.

I personally play sample-sets live and record the plugins output and/or the midi, so I experience the "touch" of the sampler when I'm playing the kit.
This way I can play with acoustic "feel" if a sample set is well composed and velocity mapped.


Percussion sampling has unique requirements in terms of flexibility:

each sample in a set must be mapped according to playback level
each sample in a set must be mapped according to MIDI velocity level
each sample in a set must be mapped according to MIDI velocity range

Previewing sample sets also has differing requirements.

The ability to:
play single samples in a set
play any velocity across a set
*the clever bit* modulate across velocity and trigger speed.

I've never seen a plug which does this, but it would be really useful.




These factors make playing a drum sampler plug live very different from simply triggering pre-processed sounds,
or using a keyboard to trigger rather than a dedicated digital drum kit.
Keyboard players: try doing a nice jazzy snare-roll on your keyboard with a single shot snare sample set and you will immediately experience this.

Then there is the issue of "how loud" in the contexts of:

realistic playability of the sample sets, very wide dynamic range.
recording level/playback level, as dynamically wide as practical.
mix level, compressed (no doubt to some degree) but lacking in dynamics.

The dynamic range of percussion sampling is much greater, the need for greater dynamic control more important.



There are 2 methods for recording percussion sample sets which need to be considered:

1. A set of samples are all recorded at comparable levels and are triggered according to MIDI velocity.

2. A set of samples are recorded at natural levels and triggered according to which sample is mapped to a particular MIDI velocity.


In practice it is usuall to use a mixture of these 2 methods to achieve a realistic output across a sample-set:

A set consisting of a single sample would utilise method 1.

A theoretical set of 127 samples would use method 2.

A "real-life" situation might consist of say 10 samples, so each sample in a set requires manipulation in terms of:

sample trigger level,
sample trigger velocity range,
sample trigger velocity curve.

and the sample set requires manipulation in terms of the trigger velocity curve.



It strikes me that the plugin I would like to see would be pretty much like ReaSamplOmatic5000, but with the additional functionality mentioned.



Practical reasons for trying to gain support for a dedicated Reaper drum-plug:

Reaper arguably has one of the best and most efficient audio engines around.
Reaper plugins are extremely light on CPU. Reasamplomatic5000 is no exception to this.

A drum sampler plugin to slot into a track channel in Reaper only needs to handle 1 drum, so 1 sample set. Constructing a whole kit just requires a project template.

It doesn't need to be a big, hungry, complicated plug. Just slightly more flexible than the present Reasamplomatic5000.

Most everything else that needs to be done to the resultant audio can be achieved within Reaper in a very logical on concise way.

In fact, with every new release of Reaper, the flexibility with which plugins can be used increases because of the improvements in Reaper itself. Audio and MIDI implementation in Reaper 3xx are outstanding by any standards and continue to improve.

This (relatively small) feature request could encourage many users to make Reaper their drum-studio DAW of choice above many others, all within the working paradigm of Reaper.

Users would not need to learn how to use another complicated sampling plug, just to understand how Reaper handles MIDI and audio.

Such a plugin would allow us to take even more advantage of reaper x64, 64bit audio engine, and all that these things imply, etc.

If drums and percussion are dealt with sensitively in a composition everything else falls far more easily into place. Obtaining realistic dynamics makes the difference between a flat, or completely lush sounding mix.

Original thread (and poll) here:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=26614
Issue Details
Issue Type Feature Request
Project Deprecated REAPER issue tracker
Category Plugins
Status Suggested
Priority 5 - Medium
Suggested Version 3.05
Implemented Version (none)
Users who would use this feature 9
Users who would not use this feature 7
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)

07-14-2009 05:18 PM
Human being with feelings
 
use NI Battery or something.
I think it's not a good idea to ask devs about that kind of stuff. Reaper still needs an improvement of usability as a sequencer.
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07-14-2009 05:43 PM
Human being with feelings
 
i agree with hantymansy. there are bigger developer teams than cockos working on just the sampler engine you're talking about.

off the top of my head directwave, kontakt and battery should all be able to do what you want.
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07-14-2009 07:33 PM
Human being with feelings
 
I'd rather have them concentrate on the base app instead of this. Sorry man :(

Shortcircuit or Battery!

~Rob.
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07-15-2009 02:02 AM
Human being with feelings
 
Sorry dude, I agree with above mentioned. It's better if they'd focus on just REAPER, and you can use DirectWave, HALion, Kontakt, Battery, for whatever you need to do. They are done better anyways.
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07-15-2009 05:48 PM
Human being with feelings
 
Yes, I use Battery at the moment. SC is far to unreliable.
My point is more about having a very light and simple (1 drum) sampling plug for Reaper which has the extra flexibilty needed for percussion.
It could even be extra funtionality for the already existing Reasamplomatic.
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07-15-2009 06:22 PM
Human being with feelings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthepipeline
Yes, I use Battery at the moment. SC is far to unreliable.
My point is more about having a very light and simple (1 drum) sampling plug for Reaper which has the extra flexibilty needed for percussion.
It could even be extra funtionality for the already existing Reasamplomatic.
Yes, i pointed out that option in the FR forum too... Samplomatic30000 :P
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07-15-2009 07:04 PM
Human being with feelings
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inthepipeline
Yes, I use Battery at the moment. SC is far to unreliable. My point is more about having a very light and simple (1 drum) sampling plug for Reaper which has the extra flexibilty needed for percussion.
It could even be extra funtionality for the already existing Reasamplomatic.
it's a very slippery slope from there to "we need a full suite of reaper instruments". there are already lots of great free plugins that do this stuff and some stunning not-free ones, and anything that matches the capabilities of plugins out there already - some of which have been in development for years longer than reaper itself - is going to be an enormous amount of work.

i'd feel very hazy about the devs spending time on this when there are lots of "core" things left that would instantly benefit everyone.
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07-16-2009 02:18 PM
Human being with feelings
 
More VSTi's or even expanding the current ones that much is definitely not advisable. Most of us came to REAPER because of it's fast development and un-bloated architecture. Working on instruments and non program based apps will slow the whole team down...do remember there are only 3 people.
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07-17-2009 07:38 AM
Human being with feelings
 
I do agree that taking into account that the dev team is small this should not be a high priority.

I switched to Reaper for many reasons, not least because of the marvellous, proactive development environment, so I understand the concern of all the contributors who would wish to see all efforts to continually improve Reaper. I am no different in this respect.

Respect for all your opinions.

*I*
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