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Dual Faders, pan modes - MCP layouts Issue Tools
issueid=4404 10-09-2012 03:02 PM
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Dual Faders, pan modes - MCP layouts
We have Dual Pan, what about Dual Faders?

This is an idea that I had when designing some layout mockups for the WIP theme Nightworker by gridlove
I thought about the custom EMI console at Abbey Road Studios:



1) Thinking about this custom EMI fader design, I would love to be able to split a stereo fader into 2 mono faders, on the fly when I want to
2) This is even more useful and relevant in Reaper, which can handle a lot of channels inside a single track
3) After this, having a phase inverter on each channel can make sense
4) There are some pan modes that are missing in Reaper
5) Instead of having many seperated graphic elements (vumeter, fader, pan, width), we can mix elements that work in the same domain (vumeter+fader, pan+width).
This allows to have the same (or more) possibilities, with a lighter display.

Here is a mockup that shows dual faders, some pan modes and layouts based on these 5 points (not finished and not clean, just a dirty mockup):


or using centered pan knobs


Only 2 rules for pan GUI elements, for all configurations
- Pan knob = pan position (point) in stereo or 360° field
- Pan circle = pan width (area) in stereo or 360° field (red circle= inverted width)

Stereo Pan ("Stereo Pan" mode in Reaper)
Stereo pan & width settings

Dual Pan ("Dual Pan" mode in Reaper)
Each mono channel has its own pan

Dual Stereo (Does not exist in Reaper - "Stereo Combined Panner" mode in Cubendo)
Each mono channel has its own pan, but there is a global stereo width control.
Pans work like in Dual Pan, width work like in Stereo Pan. This allows to control width (or invert stereo) without having to edit pans.
Using a modifier, dragging the width circle could allow to move the stereo image within the stereo field.
In this mode, the width display is the same on both circles, as it is a shared stereo width setting. The center of the width circle is determined by the positions of the 2 pans.
Note: "Dual Stereo 2" and "Dual Stereo 3" produce the same result.


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Surround Stereo Pairs
In this layout surround channels are grouped by stereo pairs.
Round panners work with the Stereo Pan behavior but in a 360° field (could be called "360° Stereo Pan").

Surround Dual 2D
Each mono channel has it's own position and width in the 360° field.

Surround Dual 3D
Joystick mode: same as Surround Dual 2D, but includes volume as a new dimension in the panner. Good to create some moving effects.

We could have a pack of layouts designed for the most common channel formats (mono, stereo, MS, 2.1, 4.0, 5.1, 7.1, etc).
Reasurround is nice, but having multichannel mixer layouts is a good way to monitor and edit directly from the mixer.



Some additionnal notes about dual faders
Quote:
Originally Posted by benf View Post
ADDIKTION, by splitting the volume fader this way, there's no more necessity in a pan control. Only width is required.
Here are some examples that show the interest (and necessity) of having both, it adds more possibilities and flexibility:

- You adjust volumes with dual faders, and you adjust stereo placement and imaging with panners.
You use volume controls to control volumes, and pan controls to control pans, even if pan=volume this is 2 different dimensions in a mix.
For now we can just have pan control for mono channels in a stereo track (Dual Pan).

- Say that you want to mute one of the two channels:
When you want to mono-ize a channel, sometimes it is best to use only one of the channels than adding the 2 and reduce the width.
With dual faders and pan controls, you could do this directly from the mixer.

-There are a lot more possible examples, but maybe the important thing is to understand that it will not affect the present behavior (you can still work the "stereo fader" way), but will add new powerful ways of mixing, more complete.


Quote:
Originally Posted by benf View Post
I hope Cockos will take your idea. We can imagine the volume (left + right) faders driven with the mouse and, while moving your mouse with 'shift' pressed, you'll be able to manage right or left. And then, with 'shift' released, both right and left are managed, but with their gap preserved.
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Discussion Thread http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=111686
Issue Details
Issue Type Feature Request
Project Deprecated REAPER issue tracker
Category Editing behavior
Status Suggested
Priority 5 - Medium
Suggested Version 4.26
Implemented Version (none)
Users who would use this feature 6
Users who would not use this feature 1
Assigned Users (none)
Tags (none)

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