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Old 06-24-2018, 10:39 PM   #105
Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,663

Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Hi brainwreck, this is taking place as you continue to hit the hat right? As opposed to hitting the hat once and letting
up or pressing down on it.

Yeah, there are only two ways I know of to get a realistic sound for a high hat to vary from loose to really tight and
have the pitch with it. One would be to create enough articulations that you could crossfade through as you go from
loose to tight or vice versa

The other way would be to fake it, using an ahd envelope that could control a loose to a tight sound, while at the same
time applying a slight pitch to it.

Either way, the hi-hat pedal would have to put out a continuous CC4 from 0 to 127. Actually the only way it makes sense
to me is that it would put out CC4 (0 to 127), that way the developer can be creative to supply articulations that worked
best for the drummer.

Maybe minerman mentioned something about this, whether CC4 is a contious 0 to 127. but as I look back I can't find it.

Regarding velocity, yeah, if you're using VSTis for drums, you can get much more control with the VSTi.

When you say velocity envelope curves brainwreck, are you talking about linear and various parabolic curves, or are you
talking about something else?
Todd, yes. When you press the hi-hat pedal, hit it continuously, and continue to apply more pressure to the pedal, there is a pitch change. Same goes as you loosen foot pressure from the pedal. It's just one of a bunch of little things that is better about real drums, to me.

More important than that though is what Toontrack calls 'transmuting', which I guess is a joining of 'transistional muting'. Most drum samplers provide articulations for levels of openness, but most of them do not provide a means for hi-hat sounds to transition from a closed state to an open state and the reverse. I mean, in most drum samplers if you hit a closed hat and THEN open the hat, you only get a closed sound, NOT that sizzly sound of the hats opening up AFTER the hit. And when you hit a closed hat and begin to close the hats, you don't get that gradual transistional sizzle toward a closed sound; you get an open hit sound and then a final closed sound when the pedal is fully closed, but not that good stuff inbetween. Ezdrummer does do transmuting, but it's flakey, not having settings to dial it in. And Superior has it, likely with parameters that aren't available in Ezdrummer.

On CC4, I think my module is putting out 0 to 90. I'll have to take a look again.

On velocity envelopes, I should unravel that a bit, because I'm talking about two different things, and I have something else in mind as well.

Most MIDI devices and samplers provide preset velocity 'curves'. Some third party plugins provide user editable points, rather than fixed points for adjusting the 'curve'. For example, in Addictive there are only 2 adjustable points, where other plugins provide more. It also seems like I have used a velocity plugin that allows for adding points. But all of this curve business is pretty rough and unintuitive for making fine adjustments.

What I'm thinking of is something along the line of a velocity learner. Say this learner plugin provides a visual bar of a given velocity level, like what we see in a MIDI editor, and it asks the player to play some hits at that velocity. If the player feels that there is a discrepency between how hard he is playing and the sample output, he can indicate 'too soft' or 'too hard' and the velocity learner plugin will adjust accordingly. So the player would step through some determined number of velocity levels, as outlined above, until a complete 'curve' is formed. Obviously some averaging would need to be worked out for those velocities which fall between the 'learned' velocity levels. I think that something like this would get much closer at dialing in a realistic velocity response than simple preset 'curves' or dragging around rough and vague points along a curve. And it could involve as many velocity levels as the player wants to step through. I have some other ideas about how this could be improved, but that is the general idea.
It's time to take a stand against the synthesizer.

Last edited by brainwreck; 06-24-2018 at 10:49 PM.
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