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Old 07-19-2018, 07:25 PM   #31
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Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 126

Originally Posted by ReaDave View Post
Just bookmarked this and will download and check out some of your work over the next few days. Some very interesting looking stuff in here.
1. Thanks. Any comments? ambisonics stuff is nothing special, but surround manipulators & 3D workflow i believe is unique.

Originally Posted by ReaDave View Post
Thanks for the info on your updates. I'm currently doing everything in third order using mainly Blue Ripple plugins and their cube decoder is actually very good.

As for my reference to upmixing, I'm speaking of actually upmixing a stereo source to full third order Ambisonics which is what the NuGen upmixer does with a stereo source. It creates width, depth and height from a stereo source. I haven't tried it yet but I am curious.
2. Have a look at the ambix suite , particularly ambix_widening. I beleive it does 2D delay-frequency widening. If you want to really ruin directionality to 3D without using ambifreeverb(2), you can put ambix_widening on, rotate it, and put another on. It really works, play with settings. Tip: use o3a flare to monitor what you're doing.

I only have one Ambisonic mix available on my website at this stage but the new double length album I am currently working on will be there as well as a third order download. You can find the mix of one track called 'Run the Race' from my previous album on my website at

3A I'll have a proper listen to RTR when I've finished preparing my decoders for my own speakers.

I suggest you also keep the RTR fuma link on your site too, and a long note may not be necessary since people that know ambisonics should know the difference. I also managed to find ultrasound on your GDrive. Is that ambix?

Both mixes feature (very) aggressive 3D placement, and placement of things direct/side left, and RTR has a slight focal at the bottom, these may not be a good things, again, i'll revise my feedback once I've had a proper listen. I've just been mainly looking at the image on O3A flare.


3B Based on a combination of listening & Flare, here are Some tips I made after I finished listening to RTR & US.

General comments:
- Rhythm & leads should go at the front
- If you don't know where to place instruments, put it at the FRONT
- Use PMOD for a quick way to add movement (eg., 16th arp in RTR). Move both A & E.
- Instead of regular delay, dry in stays front, route the wet part of the delay to the rear, and then pan that to the rear. Spatial delay is now available (free O3A). May or may not do the same thing.
- Try to keep diagetic instruments/ sounds (well) within +-45*
- Sounds at directly above & below will be played through all speakers in 2D = sounds bad (some synths (RTR) & piano (US)).
- Will my mix sound intresting in 2D? What about 1D? MONITOR using those systems (5.1 square)
- Side is not a good place to place instruments since human hearing is most insensitive there.

RTR reminds me a lot of Jarre & Lichtmond stuff due to the retro 70s/80s synths. I'm glad US sounds a bit more modern, like 90s-00s. RTR in general sounds like stereo panned to surround with the occasional directional sound. I had to use my own speaker correction tool to move everything side to front since ambix_warp crashes. That's how bad the directionality is. Ultrasonic is slightly better, but sometimes the placement of sounds seems a little weird & I can't help but think it's due to your speaker arrangement & decoder.

Originally Posted by ReaDave View Post
I personally find mixing in Ambisonics and decoding to discreet surround provides a better mix than discreet mixing precisely because it works with a sound field rather than isolated speakers.
4 Conclusion: mixing in ambisonics does not magically make the mix better. It depends per-mix, as my comments have shown.

Ambisonics is also not detriment free. I've replied to that thread, but to summarize, Ambisonics can blind you from IRL speaker effects which basic decoders will not fix, surrounds are overloaded with ITU 5.1 decoding, making Decoders for arbitrary & irregular 3D arrays is non trivial, detecting & solving (subtle) ambisonics problems can be tricky, and you can never have a truly discrete center with 3oa since the resolution is 45*, but 5.1 LCR is 30*.

I'm working solidly on my next album at the moment which is the biggest personal project I've undertaken to date. It is all being recorded and mixed in third order Ambisonics and I will be making it freely available in full Ambisonic format, 5.1 decode from the Ambisonic mix and regular stereo also decoded from the Ambi mix.

5 I downloaded FLACs of Jerusalem & Ghost Train. They were 44k. No problem. To my surprise, the AC3 is also 44k. This is a potential problem since if you're delivering for DVD/BD/TV , they are expecting 48k for AC3, and some hardware may have problems with 44k AC3.

This may or may not be irrelevant/intresting to you. I am assuming you will also need 44k output for CD. You will need to decide for yourself at which point in the workflow to have 48k, or not at all.

Originally Posted by ReaDave View Post

"12 channels (11 full range and a sub) with a convention 5.1 array at head height , two upper front channels (above the main front L & R), two lower front channels (below the main front L & R) and two upper rear channels (above the main rear L & R). So basically a double cube without the lower two rear channels. "

6 DO YOU still have this 11.1bf setup? I may be able to figure out a better solution than simply a cube.

EDIT/PS: Can you please PM me your email? Might be more reliable tham PMs/forums.

Last edited by junh1024; 07-27-2018 at 04:10 PM.
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