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Old 03-09-2018, 11:19 AM   #86
azslow3
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobF View Post
The project functions 100% upon opening. However ...
The converted project structure is more complicated than it needs to be. I've read the thread at your site, but I'm still not certain if these side effects are intended. If they are, I'm still happy. If not, then maybe your conversion routine can be simplified.
The following "side effects" are intended. Some parts can be simplified... but only from your perspective. For converter side, I have to write quite complicated "project simplification" functions for that

But let me explain in details:
Quote:
Here's the scenario:
In SONAR I have a standard Instrument Track; separate MIDI & audio/VSTi tracks. The audio/VSTi track has a volume automation envelope.
If I understand your correctly, you sometimes use Instrument Tracks and sometimes separate MIDI/synth track. Right?

Quote:
The resulting Reaper project has a Synth Rack folder that contains the audio/VSTi track, which is also a folder that contains the MIDI track. This MIDI track has Parent Send disabled, and an explicit send to its parent instead. Additionally, the audio/VSTi track has Parent Send disabled, with an explicit Send to another audio track that has the volume automation.
In Sonar you always have the Synth Rack. It is not a part of the track view, but it is there. In most cases it is a "separate thing", Synth is not a part of any FX chain, not even when "Instrument" tracks are used (an exception I will mention later).

That separation influence the signal routing, it is not just a "visual effect" (like track folders).

Think about multiple MIDI tracks routed to one synth which in turn is routed to several Synth tracks (multi-out synth).

Reaper has no separate Synth Rack. But I have to map all variations of the signal flow, that means I need a replacement, separated from MIDI and Synth (outputs) tracks. In Reaper everything is a track. So I have made a track called "Synth Rack", just as a placeholder (without signal routing at all).

I agree that in particular setups (f.e. one synth, one MIDI input and one output), the structure can be "optimized away". But that requires the optimization procedure which do that (for each particular case). I hope you can understand now why the "simplification" of the project structure means complication for the converter.

Reaper default behavior is to bind the signal flow to the project structure. If you put a track into a folder, its output is set to this folder. Converter in general follow that idea, putting tracks/buses into output buses/AUX tracks.

But Sonar users can be unhappy with that "big tree" result, especially if they was working in "flat" framework before. Also in Sonar the position of a strip was never influencing the signal flow. Such users may want to revert the project structure into flat or just move tracks around for mixing convenience. With default Reaper approach, they will immediately hit a problem: the signal flow will be changed after moving tracks.
So I have decided to stay in "two worlds", creating Reaper like structure but making all routing explicitly fixed. So moving tracks around is not influencing the signal flow (as in Sonar).

That allows you f.e. move MIDI tracks from synth to the corresponding bus/folder/sub-folder near synth output track by just dragging it into correct place. A big project structure can be completely reorganized in a minute, for particular taste. And the project will still sound correctly.

Quote:
The most straight-forward approach, with or without the Synth Rack Folder, would be to have the VSTi, MIDI item(s) and automation all on the same track.
About the "exception" I have mentioned before. Sonar in fact almost support the "straight-forward" approach, but it was not thought for Synthes and rarely used with them. To support MIDI input for FXes, Sonar support putting them into FX bin but allowing them to be "a synth". Technically speaking such FXes are Synth. Unlike pure synth, they use input audio in addition to input MIDI. But technically VST have audio input, even in case they are synth pure. Some plug-ins have such duality, they can generate sound from MIDI but also can use input audio.

Such case is special in Sonar. Such "Synth" is still shown in the Synth rack, but it can not have separate synth output track(s).

And I convert such synth use case specially, by putting it into the original track, where it was in Sonar (but not into synth rack), and putting corresponding MIDI track(s) in the near.

I mean "straight-forward" case in Sonar is converted as "straight-forward". But it is important to understand that this case is different from usual Sonar Synth processing.

Quote:
There are other oddities, but I thought I would start with just one.
If there are real oddities, I will try to eliminate them. Or explain why they are there. So please do not hesitate to ask.
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