Old 01-07-2013, 10:19 AM   #1
pelleke
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Default New Source/Destination editing actions!

Dear mortals, I would like to announce my new custom actions I created to do Source/Destination editing.

For hasty or lazy people: watch this vid! http://youtu.be/utSTd8huEoM

Insipred by the earlier work done by gembez, Art Evans and panphonic, I would like to share my custom actions with the rest of the world. I've been using them now to edit one project, and I am definitely happy with the way it went.

If you have any questions or remarks, or if you have found a bug, please let me know and I will look at it!

A few key features:

- A set-up action that creates a Destination project tab, asks you to save it (which you can cancel). It duplicates the tracks of the source project, and copies some other data that would otherwise be left away, such as the FX chain on your master track.
- Source and destination are in separate projects, which give them the advantage of having separate timelines, zoom factors and time selections. Also, it gives you a lot better screen real estate, so you don't have to hide tracks to make it work.
- Three points edits and four points edits. Both are done using the same action.
- These actions don't depend on markers so you can use your markers independently, any way you want.
- These actions do not depend on showing and hiding tracks from your TCP
- Two edit actions, one of which automatically adds crossfades to your edits, with a configurable length.
- Although untested, automation envelopes should also be copied.

Installation instructions:
- Get an up-to-date version of Reaper. I've created and tested these on Reaper v4.31.
- Get an up-to-date version of SWS extensions installed.
- Download the custom actions from this thread.
- Start Reaper, open your actions window and import the actions using the Import/Export button.
- Assign useful shortcuts to the actions. I use F10 for Edit, Opt-F10 for Edit without crossfades, and Cmd-Opt-F10 for Set up S/D.
- Configure the auto cross-fade length. Go to Extenseions - Command Parameters, and set the "Seconds (Edit cursor)" value to half the desired crossfade length. (i.e. for 30 ms crossfades, set to 0.015)

Setting up S/D editing:
- If you have multiple project tabs open, make sure your source is on the leftmost tab and that this tab is currently selected. Also, make sure all tracks are visible in TCP. Consider minimizing them instead.
- Execute the set-up action. It creates a new tab, copies the source tracks and the master FX chain, and asks you to save it. I recommend you to save it right away, but you can also cancel the dialog. After that, it reselects the source project.

Editing:
- To edit, you always need a time selection in your source project. Make a time selection around the audio that you desire to copy to your destination.
- If you are doing a 4 point edit, set the time selection in your destination to the desired region you want to replace.
- If you are doing a 3 point edit, remove the time selection in your destination project (if present) and set your playhead to the desired edit location.
- Execute the Edit action.

Notes:
- Three point edits are done by overwriting the content behind the destination playhead with the selected source audio. It only overwrites as long as the source selection's duration. If there is still audio behind the pasted material, a crossfade is created as if it was a four point edit. (In my workflow this situation is really rare, and I thought this behaviour would be the most useful)
- Four-point edits depend on ripple editing being activated in the destination project. It's automatically activated during set-up, but if you switch it off during your editing session, four point edits will break.
- Although these actions themselves do not depend on TCP visibility, I only tested this having all tracks visible. If you want to hide tracks during your S/D editing session, consider minimizing them as an alternative. If you really need to do this, make sure you hide them in both your source project and your destination project. At least, items and envelopes on hidden tracks are known not to be copied. If you have tracks hidden during set-up, they may not appear in your destination project. (Haven't tested this.)
- The Destination project is a copy as identical from the source as I could get it. The only things I know are not copied, are the values of the master fader and panpot, and the measurement units in the timeline. Will look at those in a future version.
- The actions expect the source to be on the leftmost open project tab, and the destination on the rightmost open project tab. I only tested this in an envrionment with two open tabs, but it should work OK with more, although if you want to use a tab in the middle as your source, you've got to move it to the left first.
- When the action makes the crossfade, it may be possible that a little very low (slowly played back) audio is audible. I suspect the SWS action that moves the cursor around is actually doing that, but I am not 100% certain about it. At least, it doesn't do any harm to your project.
- I haven't tested these on Windows, but I expect everything to work. Could anybody please confirm this?

I am eagerly waiting for your replies!
Attached Files
File Type: reaperkeymap Source-Destination Editing.ReaperKeyMap (989 Bytes, 612 views)
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:28 AM   #2
Sambo Rouge
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Nice work Pelle ---- lots of effort gone in here. Many thanks.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:43 AM   #3
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phenomenal work. Thank you.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:19 AM   #4
pelleke
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Thanks, people! Did you actually give it a go? (And is one of you guys using Windows?)

I already have the next feature request: two people mentioned (independently from each other) that it would be useful to be able to audition both involved takes on that spot, as if you hadn't cut. (That is, be able to listen to the pieces of "tape" you didn't use.) I'm already thinking that one out. I myself think it would be useful to have an action that - after it's done with the edit - automatically fires up the crossfade editor to immediately edit the fade on the left hand side, and maybe plays it once.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:51 AM   #5
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Nice.
(I'll not test before when I need something like this)
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:02 PM   #6
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I have not tried it yet, but I've prepared a blog post to promote it, will go up tomorrow.

At the moment I don't have a need for 3 and 4-point edits but there have been a few times in the past where it would have been useful.

I'm on a Mac.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:53 PM   #7
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Ah, that's great! Thanks! If you share the link with me, I'll stick around for the comments!

// EDIT - It may obviously be the blog you link to in your signature.

Last edited by pelleke; 01-09-2013 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 01-11-2013, 06:37 AM   #8
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Fantastic work pelleke, and many thanks for sharing your efforts with us...
Now Reaper is my "to go" daw for pristine classical editing..
Thank you!
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:25 AM   #9
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Hi Pelle,

Sweet Actions!! This gives me a proper option to do SD editing on a mac. Soundblade is just not practical enough and pretty expensive. Thanks for the good work and Goedenmiddag ;-)
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:34 AM   #10
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I have an idea to think about for you.

post with wrong list. see next post

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Old 03-21-2013, 08:22 AM   #11
just.sounds
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Sorry i messed up, the good list ;-)

Just for auditioning if you did the crossfade right this would be very nice to have:

Specific key commands to start this!

take "1" crossfading to take "2" like normal

take "1" fading out without take "2" fading in
take "1" not fading out trough the crossfade. (without take 2)
take "1" not fading out stopping at the end of the crossfade. (without take 2)

take "2" from beginning of crossfade fading in (without take 1)
take "2" from beginning of crossfade not fading in (so playing at normal loudness from the start)(without take 1)
take "2" from before crossfade (without take 1)

Is this remotely possible to configure? I'm willing to put some work in it if it is. But won't start if it isn't

Last edited by just.sounds; 03-22-2013 at 01:43 AM.
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Old 04-26-2013, 08:36 PM   #12
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Thanks, Pelle!

This is brilliant, and I have a project coming up that will probably get a lot of use from it.

Working just like the video in Win7 64 Ultimate with 32 and 64 bit Reaper.
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:59 AM   #13
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These actions are amazing. Just what we classical engineers needed in Reaper. I've referenced them in my own post in which I offer some custom actions to help with non source-destination crossfades:

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=122267

The one I'm most proud of is the classical crossfade action that side-steps the need for the crossfade editor when attempting precise classical-style fades.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:18 AM   #14
pelleke
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@just-sounds

This is what I got back from the people in my professional network immediately after I released these. Or, at least, auditioning the parts that you don't use. (i.e. D and G, see below.)

Quote:
A take "1" crossfading to take "2" like normal

B take "1" fading out without take "2" fading in
C take "1" not fading out trough the crossfade. (without take 2)
D take "1" not fading out stopping at the end of the crossfade. (without take 2)

E take "2" from beginning of crossfade fading in (without take 1)
F take "2" from beginning of crossfade not fading in (so playing at normal loudness from the start)(without take 1)
G take "2" from before crossfade (without take 1)
A is currently possible just by playing after the edit was made. (Some functionality could be added to rewind to the correct spot.)

All the others should be (remotely) possible.

I think Reaper allows you to mute regions, which basically makes it possible to create B and E as well.

For C and F, the crossfade needs to be removed as well before playback, which in itself should be possible although there are possible complications:

1. To restore the crossfade exactly as it was after playback, we'll need to use the 'Undo' history. The problem here is that there's no way to figure out whether a crossfade was there in the beginning, so if you 'undo' something that wasn't done (removing a non-existent crossfade), God knows what action you're actually undoing.
2. I don't know whether Reaper has an action "Play until end of selected items", and since there's no way to guess how long the crossfade was before auditioning, you would depend on such an action. (My guess would be though that you can actually do this, if need be using the time selection.)

D and G are very likely possible, but probably the most painful ones to implement: you would have to stretch the existing items so that the stuff that you didn't use becomes visible again. Again, using the Undo action you can get away with it clean.

Last edited by pelleke; 05-07-2013 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 05-07-2013, 08:30 AM   #15
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Ooh my lord, as I am typing I just think: you know what would be a real dream? If you could select any region in the destination you've edited ever before, and recall the exact location in the source where you got that edit from back when you made it, so you can immediately change it, fix it or whatever! I don't beleve Sequoia and Pyramix even have that! Well, that's got to be stuff for the far future, but it would definitely make Reaper THE DAW to use for classical projects.
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Old 02-17-2014, 03:44 AM   #16
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Thanks for working these out! will come in handy at some point in the future I reckon!
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Old 05-10-2014, 08:53 AM   #17
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I am having a weird problem with these custom actions.

Thank you, by the way. This is really helping me on a current project.

Though, in the destination project, everything is being copied in at .010 Rate and filling an inordinate amount of space with this long and slow version of the edit I was making. I hve to adjust the rate and chop down all the loops Reaper makes when changing the rate back to 1.

Any suggestions?
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Old 06-29-2014, 08:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paukenfaust View Post
I am having a weird problem with these custom actions.

Thank you, by the way. This is really helping me on a current project.

Though, in the destination project, everything is being copied in at .010 Rate and filling an inordinate amount of space with this long and slow version of the edit I was making. I hve to adjust the rate and chop down all the loops Reaper makes when changing the rate back to 1.

Any suggestions?
I am just following up.... any suggestions?
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Old 06-30-2014, 01:18 AM   #19
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Yeah, sorry for not responding. I haven't had a chance yet to check this out just yet but I'm surprised as I don't do anything to the rate.

I've got a few questions / things that jump to mind that could help either of us identify what's going on here:
- What version of Reaper and SWS are you on?
- What is the sample rate of your source project? And the auto-generated destination project, does that run on the same sample rate?

I havent done any S/D editing for a long time, and the issue may have been introduced by a recent update of either Reaper or SWS. If all of this is not the case, I'm afraid there's something in your default settings that's making it difficult.

You could also start debugging the case itself simply by manually executing the steps in the actions one by one.
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Old 10-05-2014, 10:09 AM   #20
Guigui Ze Chti
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Default Envelope points are not following while working with Crossfade Editor

Good morning,

This is my first post and please forgive me if this is not the right place to post it.

First of all, bravo and thank you for the amazing Source/Destination editing action, this is so practical for classical music editing!

Here is my question:
When I'm moving content with the crossfade editor, I realize that my envelope volume points are not moving with the content even if I enable rippling mode and envelope points moving with media items. I don't have this problem when I'm manually dragging an item as it makes all following items + envelope to follow.

Thank you very much for your help!

Guillaume
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Old 01-07-2015, 04:05 PM   #21
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Does anyone know why the source destination youtube video has been taken down?
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Old 01-15-2015, 05:13 AM   #22
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Video back up. Sorry for the inconvenience!
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Old 10-07-2015, 07:24 AM   #23
gregswinford
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Sorry to resurrect an old thread!

I have found your custom actions for 3- and 4-point source-destination editing amazingly useful for classical stereo and multi-channel editing. However, I've just upgraded to Reaper 5.03 and SWS 2.8.1 and have spotted a small bug, which I thought I'd flag up. I'm not expecting it to be fixed in any way, just thought it might benefit other users to know about it.

When I run the 'S/D edit' action with a time selection starting at the beginning of the project, Reaper jumps to the second tab as normal, but the item isn't copied. The cursor does jump forward though. In the source project tab, all items move forward in time the same amount as the time selection. If the time selection starts after the beginning of the project, all appears normal.

Thanks again for developing these custom actions, which make Reaper a great choice for classical editing.
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Old 10-07-2015, 07:27 AM   #24
pelleke
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Oh, that's good to know.

I haven't recorded anything for quite some time (I think I'm still using 4.xx), but I'll look into this to see if I can fix it.
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Old 10-25-2015, 10:31 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelleke View Post
Oh, that's good to know.

I haven't recorded anything for quite some time (I think I'm still using 4.xx), but I'll look into this to see if I can fix it.
So did you fixed this?
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Old 02-15-2016, 08:33 PM   #26
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This is great, thank you for these custom actions!

Question: is it possible to modify the action so that the source's tempo map information also gets copied into the destination session?
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Old 02-16-2016, 01:10 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregswinford View Post
Sorry to resurrect an old thread!
Don't worry. This is amazing stuff and definitely worth to be resurrected. Otherwise I wouldn't have seen it!

Thanks, pelleke
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Old 02-20-2016, 07:44 AM   #28
studer58
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Here's somebody else on the case, who is experiencing a grouping problem at the end of his editing sequence...can anyone here help ?

http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...=1#post1640988

Out of interest, does anyone wrestling with bending Reaper towards efficient S-D editing think that a control surface like this could help speed things up ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywl_...ature=youtu.be
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Old 09-03-2017, 09:26 AM   #29
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Loving pelleke's actions for source destination editing - thanks again for posting! When monitoring with a large sample size I've been wondering about the accuracy of my selection. Does setting the punch in/out points with hotkeys during playback correspond with what I hear (i.e. the delayed audio) or do I need to preempt the delay?
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Old 09-11-2017, 10:44 AM   #30
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mhh it doesn't work any longer for some reason I don't know. Could anybody check these actions using the latest SWS installer? I haven't tried for a longer time but I think it worked before.
Set up S/D is no problem but editing doesn't work correctly. The items are not copied correctly an sometimes there is an extra track created.
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Old 09-11-2017, 11:27 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gass n Klang View Post
mhh it doesn't work any longer for some reason I don't know. Could anybody check these actions using the latest SWS installer? I haven't tried for a longer time but I think it worked before.
Set up S/D is no problem but editing doesn't work correctly. The items are not copied correctly an sometimes there is an extra track created.
We just finished editing a project this evening with no problems. Make sure ripple for all tracks is enabled in the destination project.
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