Could SoundCloud be harming your career?

[kevinwayne]

SoundCloud’s sound quality comparison vs BandCamp, YouTube and Vimeo

http://en.stormymondays.com/2016/08/...tube-and-vimeo

And just in case someone wants to quip that this is jumping on the "Hate Soundcloud" Bandwagon:

https://youtu.be/e1tuELcC5OU
https://soundcloud.com/barkingaunts/...-sell-it-cheap

A friend of mine did his own test comparison.

[ReaperMadness]

Those BASTARDS!!! If it wasn't for them I coulda' been a contenduh!

[kevinwayne]

Originally Posted by ReaperMadness

Those BASTARDS!!! If it wasn't for them I'd be famous!

You don't know the 1/2 of it~! See the latest thread I just now started.

[OPI]

Doubt it. As long as you upload in wav format and peaks stay under -1 to -1.5, you should be good. Soundcloud is in no way is a super high quality playback service and they admit that. Just treat each streaming service differently as all of them sound a tad different.

If you master a track for ALL services, yeah your gonna have issues as each service processes your track a bit differently.

As i side note, i feel lucky that i have so many venues to showcase my music. Is it gonna hurt your career? No way, its only helped mine.

[zeekat]

Joke's on them, I'm carefully mixing and mastering mine to sound amateurish everywhere. Tenth-generation-copy C60 cassette releases coming soon.

[kevinwayne]

Originally Posted by OPI

If you master a track for ALL services, yeah your gonna have issues as each service processes your track a bit differently

You shouldn't have to do that. Nobody mastered a track differently for different FM Stereo stations. They're all the same.

[OPI]

Originally Posted by kevinwayne

You shouldn't have to do that. Nobody mastered a track differently for different FM Stereo stations. They're all the same.

But we do otherwise you can just not use the service. But like I said, I think it's helps more then hurts but that's imo

[pipelineaudio]

Listening to Mixerman could certainly be harming your career

[jrk]

Originally Posted by kevinwayne

[...]FM Stereo stations. They're all the same.

They're not.

[kevinwayne]

Originally Posted by jrk

They're not.

They actually are:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_bro...haracteristics

http://www.masterdigital.com/24bit/mastering/radio.htm

https://www.bmi.com/news/entry/Mixin...adio_Broadcast

[serr]

You'd think there would be a FLAC encoded lossless streaming service nowadays right?

Nope. All mp3-land streaming. ("High quality" or "HD" being used as an oxymoron as it is with mp3 formats.)

On the other hand, the convenience factor is high and anyone with an iThing and ear buds will be none the wiser. It's certainly no worse than FM radio. Maybe actually a small notch better.

[Lawrence]

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

Listening to Mixerman could certainly be harming your career

Lol. Yeah, thousands of people don't buy your music because X service's 128k mp3 is a notch below Y's service. Not because your music sucks, that couldn't be it.

Yeah, that happens. It's the ... "Every woman who doesn't date me must be a Lesbian." ... syndrome, finding random excuses for lack of success that aren't in the mirror.

[jrk]

Originally Posted by kevinwayne

They actually are:

They're totally not.
for instance: https://www.orban.com/optimodfm-8700i

[Ulf3000]

people like music because of melody ,lyrics, theme and genre imho

whne i listen to music in the car i constantly change the volume .. super awesome songs i turn super loud XD ..

[bladerunner]

We've been here before.. Bandcamp plays at 3 dB lower than soundcloud - that's the difference. Match the volume and they're both the same. As far as I know they both stream 128kbps mp3's.

[OPI]

Blade runners right listen to him

[Softsynth]

Originally Posted by bladerunner

We've been here before.. Bandcamp plays at 3 dB lower than soundcloud - that's the difference. Match the volume and they're both the same. As far as I know they both stream 128kbps mp3's.

Yes, they also use 128kbps MP3 (normally)

https://bandcamp.com/help/audio_basics

"What format/quality are the streams on Bandcamp?

They’re MP3-128s. However, if you’re in the app and on wifi, items you’ve purchased stream as MP3-V0s (~250kbit/s on average)."

[kevinwayne]

Originally Posted by bladerunner

We've been here before.. Bandcamp plays at 3 dB lower than soundcloud - that's the difference. Match the volume and they're both the same. As far as I know they both stream 128kbps mp3's.

No one's denying that they do stream at the same level. But results are results and you have at least 2 objective tests indicting SoundCloud. That is if you're* willing to accept them for what they are and not start arguments that go for 50 posts on a thread trying to prove otherwise


















*Using "you" in the general sense, of course...

[kevinwayne]

Originally Posted by jrk

They're totally not.
for instance: https://www.orban.com/optimodfm-8700i

Because one guy on the margins has a little different doohickey that he claims does things differently than others, that proves that they aren't generally the same. Oo0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0kkkkkkaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy...

Look, I came out of the broadcast industry. Talk to some DJs sometime and see if what I say doesn't hold up.

[kevinwayne]

Originally Posted by bladerunner

We've been here before...

And if you don't like what others are saying by their respective tests, by all means feel free to run your own

[pipelineaudio]

Orban on the fringes of broadcast is like General Dynamics being on the fringes of the defense industry

[kevinwayne]

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

Orban on the fringes of broadcast is like General Dynamics being on the fringes of the defense industry

Aren't you refuting your own point by saying that?

[kevinwayne]

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

Orban

Seriously, Idk what exactly it is you're trying to argue here? You give me a link to a piece of equipment in response to my saying FM stations are pretty much the same. You offer no explanation as to why you think this "thing" at the link makes all that much
difference.

AND... show me the authority that says "You need to master differently for myriads of different varieties of FM Radio." I have yet to run across one, because quite frankly they ALL exaggerate the mid-range. Unless they're a different format that requires something be done differently - like Idk, Classical or News/Talk, maybe? Or some low grade College station that doesn't have the budget to sound like the Big Boys? For most popular music formats, there's not a lot of daylight. Check the BMI link I just shared with you, for an example of what advice most give on the matter.

[kevinwayne]

Sorry I guess you weren't the one who gave me that link, my bad.

[Eddy]

How many people make a living or get ' discovered' through SoundCloud exposure alone? I would think somewhere around the nobody mark, maybe a bit lower. It doesn't matter at all what quality SoundCloud streams at. SoundCloud ( or bandcamp streams even) are for easy sharing, not for making money or developing a viable career. That happens somewhere else. When SoundCloud had groups it was more supportive of developing a career through building an audience in SoundCloud alone. I don't see how that can happen much in SoundCloud now at all

[kevinwayne]

Originally Posted by Eddy

How many people make a living or get ' discovered' through SoundCloud exposure alone? I would think somewhere around the nobody mark, maybe a bit lower

Hell ya it ain't no MySpace, that's fa sho~!

[jrk]

Originally Posted by kevinwayne

Seriously, Idk what exactly it is you're trying to argue here? You give me a link to a piece of equipment in response to my saying FM stations are pretty much the same. You offer no explanation as to why you think this "thing" at the link makes all that much
difference.

I thought you might read it. My bad :-) Let me read it for you:

"allows you to create a sonic signature for your station with the assurance that your signature will stay locked in, uniquely branding your sound"

and how about:

"Subharmonic synthesizer adds modern-sounding bass punch to older recordings." (eek!)

Also, what pipelineaudio said.

Cheers

[bladerunner]

Originally Posted by kevinwayne

No one's denying that they do stream at the same level.

They don't stream at the same 'level'. Bandcamp streams at 3dB lower - which is the reason you see this sentiment being posted around the internet - it's amazing what a simple volume difference can fool your brain into thinking (ie. guitar/vocal/drums are dull/lost/different etc.).

Originally Posted by kevinwayne

But results are results

What results? What I've read is anecdotal - no test results being given.

The article title is ridiculous. When you hear a piece of music you have nothing to compare it to quality wise so it doesn't even occur to anyone that the quality is 'bad'. Most people listen to music to hear the music - not the quality of the sound/recording etc.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by bladerunner

When you hear a piece of music you have nothing to compare it to quality wise so it doesn't even occur to anyone that the quality is 'bad'. Most people listen to music to hear the music - not the quality of the sound/recording etc.

so true - when people heard the first 78s or wax recordings they couldn't believe how lifelike it was - like being in the room with the person.

[drumphil]

Originally Posted by pipelineaudio

Listening to Mixerman could certainly be harming your career

Tru dat.

[serr]

Originally Posted by bladerunner

The article title is ridiculous. When you hear a piece of music you have nothing to compare it to quality wise so it doesn't even occur to anyone that the quality is 'bad'. Most people listen to music to hear the music - not the quality of the sound/recording etc.

I think I know what you mean there and I'm not disagreeing with that intention but there's obviously a threshold. Generation loss in audio devices can have a signature sound. The sound of a 2" TV speaker as an element in a Pink Floyd mix is interesting because it paints a picture with a familiar kind of generation loss most of us have heard.

If something is lo-fi garage band sounding, for an obvious example, people are going to hear that and they don't need an A/B shootout to do it. "Hey, this doesn't sound very good?!" Lossy compression has a signature sound too. We're at a level now where convenience outweighs that 99% of the time and said signature loss is not usually perceptible unless you have a reference quality system. (Or at least beyond an iThing and ear buds.) Most professionally released things at least sound "good" of course.

That was the striking thing about 24 bit HD audio formats. Not so much a giant leap in sound vs. SD or anything like that but more the complete absence of any kind of signature to the sound no matter what kind of sound you put into the container.

[karbomusic]

They improved wax recordings to better technology without needing to hear better first. It would have been obvious that that recording was far, far, far from what it sounded like in real life. We've been improving that obvious difference since then without the need to compare to what didn't even exist yet because there was no better yet - that's how we got here.

[serr]

The excitement at being able to capture audio at all far outweighed their critiques of the shortcomings of the equipment! And now we've had true virtual reality level of sound reproduction for many years (on the high end systems and with surround sound).

These days people are getting just as excited about the dawn of visual virtual reality. The gaming stuff is pretty crude if you critique it as though it should be true to life in every nuance (eg Star Trek holodeck). But it's just as exciting as those wax recordings were back then.

[kevinwayne]

Originally Posted by bladerunner

They don't stream at the same 'level'. Bandcamp streams at 3dB lower - which is the reason you see this sentiment being posted around the internet

-

I was referring to the quality of the files on each respective site which is the same. Genius

it's amazing what a simple volume difference can fool your brain into thinking (ie. guitar/vocal/drums are dull/lost/different etc.)

Hello??? The research done on how we perceive volume would lead anyone to believe SoundCloud should sound better~! It's the LOUDER volumes our ears associate with a better, fuller, crisper, more professional sound. The fact that most seem to prefer the quieter one says to me something else is going on.

What results? What I've read is anecdotal - no test results being given

And as I already said - if you don't like the tests feel free to run your own.

The article title is ridiculous. When you hear a piece of music you have nothing to compare it to quality wise so it doesn't even occur to anyone that the quality is 'bad'. Most people listen to music to hear the music - not the quality of the sound/recording etc.

Are you trying for #FAIL on 4 points today? You're on a roll~!

Do I really need to explain this to ya. That if the quality was bad you would hear it across the board on all examples?

[kevinwayne]

I have come to the conclusion that in order to be a poster on Cockos forums, you need to be a know-it-all that can deny the sun is in the sky by day, the moon by night, and the grass is green & the sky is blue. Perhaps some day I'll come up to the same level as y'all

[kevinwayne]

Originally Posted by jrk

I thought you might read it

Another Cockos Forums know-it-all. And not even showing anything you know~! How's that work?

"allows you to create a sonic signature for your station with the assurance that your signature will stay locked in, uniquely branding your sound"

and how about:

"Subharmonic synthesizer adds modern-sounding bass punch to older recordings."

I read the thing, Smart Ass. You didn't explain or show any evidence that this is quantifiably any different than what other radio stations that made it out of the 20th century are doing right now. And you still haven't

[Jeffsounds]

All I ever got out of SoundCloud is messages from some Asian girl named Rikki who will do anything I want her to...

[serr]

Originally Posted by Jeffsounds

All I ever got out of SoundCloud is messages from some Asian girl named Rikki who will do anything I want her to...

Well lucky you that she's in your area!


You know, I'm convinced that google even collects stats on the female body types I'm attracted to and filters the appropriate looking models into online ad images.


Wait, what were we talking about?

[narrowroadmusic]

Originally Posted by zeekat

Joke's on them, I'm carefully mixing and mastering mine to sound amateurish everywhere. Tenth-generation-copy C60 cassette releases coming soon.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! You funny!

[jrk]

Originally Posted by kevinwayne

Another Cockos Forums know-it-all. And not even showing anything you know~! How's that work?

Working fine for me, Kev. You may be overdoing the coffee.
Cheers!