Old 10-26-2017, 09:20 PM   #81
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How is an argument even possible here lol. Cubase/StudioOne/Ableton/Protools/Sonar you highlight stuff and then paste it, and it pastes exactly 100% perfectly every time. Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V. Done. If this process had even 3 steps instead of 2 that would be outrageous, let alone the insanity of the current implementation.
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Old 10-29-2017, 07:38 AM   #82
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hopefully it is concluded there is nothing even close in reaper for this feature.

but i wonder! why you think not so many people participate in this thread or request?
You think people do not understand the need? because the way i see this feature is that any one which needs to copy content should feel the hassles! Probably this is just more notorious for "advanced" electronic music production and his envelopes?

If i were always recording my drums or guitar, or composing classical music, probably i would not feel the need of this feature either.
I need more for electronic music production. How about you guys? the same? you need this more for electronic music?

Last edited by deeb; 10-29-2017 at 07:53 AM.
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Old 11-11-2017, 10:48 AM   #83
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Must have this in Reaper!!Coming from Cubase,i miss it a lot!
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Old 11-12-2017, 08:49 AM   #84
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I'm sure it's most important for electronic music producers, but my point this whole time is that So Are Automation Items! The last 6 months were spent perfecting AI, something that directly attracts electronic producers, yet copy and paste doesn't work properly.
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Old 11-16-2017, 08:25 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
hopefully it is concluded there is nothing even close in reaper for this feature.

but i wonder! why you think not so many people participate in this thread or request?
You think people do not understand the need? because the way i see this feature is that any one which needs to copy content should feel the hassles! Probably this is just more notorious for "advanced" electronic music production and his envelopes?

If i were always recording my drums or guitar, or composing classical music, probably i would not feel the need of this feature either.
I need more for electronic music production. How about you guys? the same? you need this more for electronic music?
You are right Reaper have its strong and weak points. Lack of area selection for easy duplicate is pitty but I think the most important in first place is Reapers unability to select more than one envelope, move theirs control pannels (reorganize positions), select points across multiple envelopes. I hope it gonna be improved.

After all Cubase is bigger team, older and more expensive DAW than Reaper...
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Old 11-17-2017, 08:28 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strachupl View Post
You are right Reaper have its strong and weak points. Lack of area selection for easy duplicate is pitty but I think the most important in first place is Reapers unability to select more than one envelope, move theirs control pannels (reorganize positions), select points across multiple envelopes. I hope it gonna be improved.

After all Cubase is bigger team, older and more expensive DAW than Reaper...
sorry i don't consider this less important then reordering envelope tracks or select multiple envelopes in different envelope tracks: ) in fact i feel stuck without it. It is like driving a ferrari which doesn't let me drive more then 30 kmh)

Area / range selection is a feature that will boost the workflow for anything.
select area -> create automation item
select area -> duplicate
select area -> delete

without being concerned with GPS coordinates : ) it is in the right spot, focusing what needs to be focused. (so we don't have to think which track to be selected or timeline range) - it is what you select and Reaper will care if it is an item , envelope , AI on each of the inherent selected tracks and do appropriate actions.

it is not just for envelopes. Envelopes would benefit a lot by this feature but many other will benefit. Also area selection is simple, and any user gets used even without prior experience which is nice to get more new users.

IMO it boost and simplifies any editing job.

Last edited by deeb; 11-17-2017 at 08:48 AM.
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Old 11-17-2017, 09:02 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deeb View Post
sorry i don't consider this less important then reordering envelope tracks or select multiple envelopes in different envelope tracks: ) in fact i feel stuck without it. It is like driving a ferrari which doesn't let me drive more then 30 kmh)

Area / range selection is a feature that will boost the workflow for anything.
select area -> create automation item
select area -> duplicate
select area -> delete

without being concerned with GPS coordinates : ) it is in the right spot, focusing what needs to be focused. (so we don't have to think which track to be selected or timeline range) - it is what you select and Reaper will care if it is an item , envelope , AI on each of the inherent selected tracks and do appropriate actions.

it is not just for envelopes. Envelopes would benefit a lot by this feature but many other will benefit. Also area selection is simple, and any user gets used even without prior experience which is nice to get more new users.

IMO it boost and simplifies any editing job.
ok, I meant there must be ability to seleect and ediit multiple envelopes to make area selection FR sense, at least I think so.
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Old 01-31-2018, 12:56 PM   #88
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Hi all, just spent over 3 hours doing time selections, quirkily drawing in empty items overtop envelopes, correcting weird pastes, correcting destroyed envelope points, just to duplicate sections of my project.

With proper area selection, this would have taken 5 minutes.
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Old 01-31-2018, 12:59 PM   #89
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Like I just want to draw a box around stuff, Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V and the contents of that box then exist at a new location. You know?
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Old 01-31-2018, 01:20 PM   #90
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Yes, I know ..

Totally agree here ..

Cockos introduced Automation Items: Amazing stuff.
Now they really should focus on proper & easy area selection handling of Items / Automation Items / envelopes.

It's what you say: you marquee an area, including (parts of) Items / Envelopes / Automation Items with the intuition : That's the area i wanna delete / move / duplicate / cut. No more, no less.

Just to experience that your intuition is completely off.
I hold my breath for Reaper newcomers, having that same intuition regarding area selection, but are let down by it, cause it doesn't work as thought.
And then scratchheads 2.0: "Why the h*ll doesn't it work that way, it should be so obvious !"

As always Folks: Just my very humble 2 cents.
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Old 01-31-2018, 02:19 PM   #91
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Totally with you both. Thanks for continuing to bring this up, as I'm dealing with similar issues in my recent projects since there's more automation during composition than usual for me. The marquee/time selection mouse modifier and "Copy items/tracks/envelope points within time selection, if any" is usable, but has a lot of bugs with automation.

Hopefully if we keep documenting each individual piece of bad behavior (rather than the tempting "it all doesn't work") and propose alternatives it will get sorted out.

For example, the big problems I've noticed here are both missing features and bugs:

- There should be a mouse modifier for "Marquee select items/envelope points" for all this to work, no?

- Native action "Duplicate selected area of items" behaves in a counter-intuitive fashion when "Marquee select items and time" is used. It seems user preference would be to account for any automation inside the marquee. This could possibly be handled by two new actions, hopefully without the current Smart Copy bug where it leaves behind unfocused automation points without an item.

- "Duplicate selected area of items/envelope points"
- "Select all items/envelope points within time selection"

It's hard to say if users would want that as the default factory behavior,
but some people definitely expect an option for that.

- Native action "Copy items/tracks/envelope points within time selection, if any" ignores envelope points and Automation Items that are not associated with an item if the envelope lane is not in focus. This is the default CMD + Shift + C action and it should be the "area selection" action, once it works, from what I can tell. This is more of a bug than an FR, from what I can tell.

Last edited by Allspice; 01-31-2018 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 01-31-2018, 05:19 PM   #92
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I'm fully aware of the time and effort necessary to code a new feature. Truly, with a computer science background, I can fully appreciate that "it's not that easy" to just add stuff.

HOWEVER -- My whole claim with this is that It's So Damned Fundamental that I just can't believe it's not there, and also that not once have the devs even given a shimmer of hope that we're going to get this.

How is this even a special request? It's copy-and-paste in the most obvious possible way - Draw a box around things. Studio One takes it further and lets you 'erase' parts of the box --- Let's go there in 2022 or not at all! But like Jesus it's Murderous trying to copy/paste stuff of any complexity in Reaper, and I just cannot believe it. We have Regions already -- that's 50% of area selection already coded.

Is it so crazy to be able to draw a box around things ON A GRID? lol.
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Old 01-31-2018, 05:56 PM   #93
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Hey ferropop,

I definitely feel your pain Just to stay current on the state of area selection with "Smart Copy" as Reaper calls it, would you mind adding whether or not you can duplicate this behavior in this post?

I'm also trying to get together a list of what is still needed on this front. It seems like smart copy behaves a little differently since your original post, but it still leaves behind automation without items. Which means that working around the fact that there isn't a mouse modifier for "Marquee select items/envelope points" much harder. What other issues are you noticing in your current projects? I bring up everything I notice but I don't use as much automation as some of y'all!

Keep in mind there are also some Automation Item copy/paste/duplicate issues that are collected in a separate thread.

Thanks!

Last edited by Allspice; 01-31-2018 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 02-01-2018, 01:42 AM   #94
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The request has a good chance to get noticed, if you can show a specific need for a specific situation.

Area selection is a range selection that is local to track(s) or envelope-lanes.

Some cases where this is useful seem to be covered with existing capabilities. Reapers just too flexible to have a ready made solution you expect at times, so you have to look and twist it a bit.

Other situation are not covered at all. Does Reaper make you do things that cost you a lot more time than they should ?

Explain it step by step. Assume that the person you're explaining it to knows absolutely nothing. That's the important bit, because it improves your explanation a lot. I made the mistake of presuming Cockos held more knowledge than I had any right to assume it did, because I didn't know them. And neither do you.

So, let's hear what the problem is that you have. Cockos have a knack for coming up with good solutions once they understand what the problem is.
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Old 02-01-2018, 06:58 AM   #95
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Airon, I can't be more clear than this (the first post in the thread hehe):

Quote:
Originally Posted by ferropop View Post
ABLETON:


Result: Exact duplication of selection


REAPER:


Result:
1. Track-2 volume automation chopped at edge of item. Bye-bye reverb/delay tail.
2. Track-3 volume automation broken up into pieces. Bye-bye reverb/delay tail.
3. Track-4 automation not even copied because there are no items.

...now throw Automation Items into this mess.

This is just the tiniest example of just how flawed the current duplication is in Reaper Again, Reaper destroys Ableton in a million other ways, but this is Such core functionality that is going to drive the new crop away immediately.

I just want Reaper to be the best it can be!!! This would get it 99% of the way there.
I literally feel anxiety every time I have to do this in Reaper (which is a lot), especially knowing that this (super elementary) function of copy-and-paste just works in every other DAW.

It's a grid! Imagine if Copy/paste in Excel only worked properly horizontally. Like, what?
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Old 02-01-2018, 07:34 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airon View Post

Explain it step by step. Assume that the person you're explaining it to knows absolutely nothing. That's the important bit, because it improves your explanation a lot. I made the mistake of presuming Cockos held more knowledge than I had any right to assume it did, because I didn't know them. And neither do you.

So, let's hear what the problem is that you have.
here is an example: note that the video shows mostly area selection applied on automation envelopes, but it works the same with items or envelopes and mixed.

https://streamable.com/7nrby
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Old 02-03-2018, 09:35 AM   #97
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It's particularly bad when duplicating envelopes.

I mean this sincerely: Reaper is SO BAD and frustrating with duplication that it makes me want to switch DAWs, and yet SO GOOD in every other way that it keeps me here. That's a crazy dichotomy.

It's like when The Beatles have a bad song (and the have a couple), you wonder -- how??

Just spent another 2 hours carefully selecting-time and duplicating items/automation piece-by-piece to try out different arrangements...again a 5 minute thing in Cubase/Ableton, bam-bam-bam copy, paste, ok I like this half let's get rid of that, bam move that there, great all automation intact, perfect.

Ughhhhh!<3
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Old 02-03-2018, 09:38 AM   #98
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Devs, can we just get some kind of answer on this? It must be the most requested feature of all time at this point, just a simple "yeah we're working on this" or "we're not planning on implementing area selection". Is there some reason why it's never addressed? Cause we'll stfu about it lol, but silence just begets squeakier wheels.

Like...we'll all use the hell out of ARA, but could we maybe get non-windows-3.1-style copy and paste going before that maybe?
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Old 02-03-2018, 03:23 PM   #99
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That's a good point regarding specificity, airon. I'm going to put together a list in a new FR of some very specific actions/mouse modifiers that address various common cases where REAPER falls short with copying and duplicating as it relates to ITB-songwriting.

I shot you a PM for feedback ferropop since I have a feeling we're running into similar issues with the current selection, copy, and duplicate toolset.
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Old 02-04-2018, 03:20 AM   #100
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The grouping in ProTools is great, the window showing what is grouped / or not makes editing large projects / track counts is simple.

I am tired of marqueeing everything in Reaper. It is cumbersome.

In ProTools I can have one waveform on the screen, select a portion of it, and paste elsewhere, and everything grouped (including automation) is pasted.
Simple fast effortless.
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Old 02-04-2018, 03:30 AM   #101
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This whole Area selection topic has become so hot the last months ..
Wish Cockos could chime in on this officially.(maybe they already did and i missed that)

Just to let us know they are (maybe) looking into it or otherwise stating it's never gonna happen.

Warm Regards.
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