Old 04-11-2018, 10:46 AM   #1
playtimer
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Default v5.79pre12 - April 11 2018

v5.79pre12 - April 11 2018
  • + MIDI editor: better behavior when moving edit cursor
  • + MIDI editor: better resize/zoom/scroll behavior on item selection changes
  • + Notation editor: avoid extending looped items in certain instances
  • + Windows: fix potential accessibility related crash [t=205483]
Changelog - Pre-Releases

Generated by X-Raym's REAPER ChangeLog to BBCode

Last edited by playtimer; 04-11-2018 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 04-11-2018, 11:21 AM   #2
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Ahhhh bliss!


Thank you, devs!



EDIT: For those who like the old behavior, perhaps you could offer new mouse modifieres for "Media item left click" and "Media item double click" contexts, which would be "Select item, MIDI: zoom to content" for left click and "MIDI: open in editor and zoom to content, Subprojects: open project, Audio: show media item properties" for double-click?

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Old 04-11-2018, 11:50 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
EDIT: For those who like the old behavior, perhaps you could offer new mouse modifieres for "Media item left click" and "Media item double click" contexts, which would be "Select item, MIDI: zoom to content" for left click and "MIDI: open in editor and zoom to content, Subprojects: open project, Audio: show media item properties" for double-click?
Great idea!
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Old 04-11-2018, 12:03 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
EDIT: For those who like the old behavior, perhaps you could offer new mouse modifieres for "Media item left click" and "Media item double click" contexts, which would be "Select item, MIDI: zoom to content" for left click and "MIDI: open in editor and zoom to content, Subprojects: open project, Audio: show media item properties" for double-click?
For me at least, this update did not break anything. If you close the midi editor after editing, it will open the next clip zoomed just like it did.

Or i'm not getting what changed here...

Edit: Okay i get it, if you leave the Editor open, it stays on the zoom level. This is a welcome addition.

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Old 04-11-2018, 12:06 PM   #5
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Yeah I never close the MIDI editor (have the option to make it possible for MIDI editor to show no open items enabled).
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Old 04-11-2018, 12:06 PM   #6
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Awesome!! Thank you devs!

Don't have time to check it out yet... @Evildragon, has this version fixed the Apr10 bugs?
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Old 04-11-2018, 12:16 PM   #7
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Only thing i don't like is the the edit cursor is always centered to the Midi Editor.
If you click on an item's beginning to open it, the whole content will be outside the window: https://prnt.sc/j3ylns

Wouldn't it be more sensible to align the edit cursor to the left of the Editor?
Like this: https://prnt.sc/j3ym4o

Last edited by HighVoltage; 04-11-2018 at 12:17 PM. Reason: wrong link
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Old 04-11-2018, 01:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighVoltage View Post
Only thing i don't like is the the edit cursor is always centered to the Midi Editor.
If you click on an item's beginning to open it, the whole content will be outside the window: https://prnt.sc/j3ylns

Wouldn't it be more sensible to align the edit cursor to the left of the Editor?
Like this: https://prnt.sc/j3ym4o
Hmm yeah I suppose it should try to balance the position between the cursor and the edge... lemme see what I can do.
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Old 04-11-2018, 07:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Hmm yeah I suppose it should try to balance the position between the cursor and the edge... lemme see what I can do.
Thanks Justin, I have only positive hopes for these changes and I know most people that are used to other DAWs welcome these changes, again thanks!
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Old 04-11-2018, 08:08 PM   #10
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It becomes very hard to select midi notes which are not inside the activated item... We have to activate each midi item to be able to select notes which are inside them. It takes lots of time for zero benefice !

Is it possible to have an option to be able to select and edit notes (LUA, velocity, etc.) which are not inside an activated item ?

Or better : to make all midi items become always activated (inside the midi editor)! In my own working, having to activate an midi item or activated/unactivated items are just a waste of time...

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Old 04-11-2018, 08:45 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by ovnis View Post
It becomes very hard to select midi notes which are not inside the activated item... We have to activate each midi item to be able to select notes which are inside them. It takes lots of time for zero benefice !

Is it possible to have an option to be able to select and edit notes (LUA, velocity, etc.) which are not inside an activated item ?

Or better : to make all midi items become always activated (inside the midi editor)! In my own working, having to activate an midi item or activated/unactivated items are just a waste of time...
Maybe you should enable the options to have one MIDI editor per project or track, then have editability and selection linked, and select all of the items on your track... or open the track list in the midi editor and click the track (selecting all of the items). In this way you can have pretty much everything editable at once.
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Old 04-11-2018, 09:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Maybe you should enable the options to have one MIDI editor per project or track, then have editability and selection linked,
I have already activated all thoses options :


Quote:
and select all of the items on your track...
That's not work, now... If I want to be able to choose midi notes outside the activated midi item, I have to activate midi items inside the midi editor.



Otherwise, I think it's a waste of time to have to select each item inside the arrangement window or the midi editor window to be able to select notes outside an activated item...

Too, when we create an midi item, it should be instantly visible inside the midi editor.

Quote:
or open the track list in the midi editor and click the track (selecting all of the items).
That works but again for me : waste of time.


Quote:
In this way you can have pretty much everything editable at once.
Sadly, not with all scripts and not with the "note velocity" contextual menu.

Look this : https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=168563

Last edited by ovnis; 04-12-2018 at 05:08 AM.
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Old 04-12-2018, 02:27 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Ahhhh bliss!
No, it's frustrating!

When I switch (large) items within the MIDI editor, using the Track List, I get blindly scrolled to the middle of the item. Previously, with automatic zoom-to-fit, I could see the entire item and zoom in to my intended position with a single click. Now I have to check where I am and scroll scroll scroll scroll scroll to my intended position. (Or first zoom out them zoom in again.)

The previous behavior can be improved, though: When opening a MIDI item in a *new* MIDI editor, the editor tries to recall the LAST-USED position and zoom of that item. The same should be done when activating faraway items within an existing MIDI editor, via the Track List.

Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
New option to toggle between auto-zoom and never-zoom:
(Something like "Option: Auto-zoom horizontally when activating item outside current viewport".)**

If NEVER-zoom is on, the MIDI editor will never change horizontal zoom level. (I guess it won't make much difference whether the horizontal zoom level is measured in beats or in time?) When activating and moving to an item that has been viewed before, recall last-used position, without changing zoom level. When moving to an item that has never been viewed before, move to the leftmost edge of the item.

If AUTO-zoom is toggled on, the MIDI editor will recall last-used position *and* zoom level when moving to an item that has been viewed before, or zoom-to-fit if the item has never been viewed before. (The auto-zoom behavior is therefore different from the current default behavior, which doesn't recall last-used position and zoom.)
EDIT: ** Or perhaps switching via arrange view van use never-zoom by default, while switching via the track list can use auto-zoom.

Last edited by juliansader; 04-12-2018 at 08:42 AM.
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Old 04-12-2018, 03:59 AM   #14
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Hm, I guess using the track list it would be a bit frustrating. Perhaps in this case it should fit to content, if you just select a track. If you select an item, it should still scroll first, so that zoom level stays the same, I think.

I'm not using the track list, and I'm not using multiple MIDI editors and I'm never closing MIDI editor ever (it's always on second monitor), so in that case I'm using arrange view to select items I want to see and edit. And for that, this new behavior is indeed bliss...

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Old 04-12-2018, 05:10 AM   #15
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Great update, thanks for the zoom thing - I might have mentioned this once or twice in the past.

I'm in favour of the current new behaviour but also not scrolling anywhere when clicking a *track* on the Track List. Definitely an *item* though, that goes without saying.

eg you have tracks with items spread out at bars like this...

Code:
T1        20         50
T2             30
T3   10
We are admiring bar 50 and surroundings on Track 1. We click on T3 to see if any thing in our technicolour field of notes is happening there, but we are inconveniently beamed to bar 10. Clicking back to T1 we are now at bar 20 instead of 50.

Full manual control with the auto zoom/scroll stuff as options would be ideal for control freaks like me as well as reasonable people.
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Old 04-12-2018, 05:15 AM   #16
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There is disagreement on things I read here and it feels like theres a rush on the devs to to things that have no clear agreements...

I think the wiser choice is in the options you have proposed. Options are better than fixed behaviors that some users will hate and others love. Option check boxes in preferences related to MIDI is the key as for what I am concerned.

I am also a big MIDI user for every projects I do so I understand the frustration that may be related to our work tools here. So please consider sticking with the word OPTIONS rather than everything different and fixed.

Thanks for your time everyone. You make great job of reporting feature requests, testing and all for the good of majority!

Thanks to the devoloppement team... only ones I know is Justin and Schwa??
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Old 04-12-2018, 05:20 AM   #17
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i'm with ovnis on the "time wasting" issue regarding activating/selecting midi items. my desired behavior is for the midi editor to open zoomed to the current item's contents, but once a user is inside the midi editor, for the midi editor to essentially forget that item bounds exist and edit the full track's midi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
Maybe you should enable the options to have one MIDI editor per project or track, then have editability and selection linked, and select all of the items on your track... or open the track list in the midi editor and click the track (selecting all of the items). In this way you can have pretty much everything editable at once.
i mentioned this in the pre10 thread, but to rephrase, selecting all items on tracks works at first, but not after activating subsequent items in the midi editor via double click. such doings result in loss of full-track editability, as seen below.



selecting stuff via tracklist/media lane is undesirable for 2 reasons, 1 being it's very "clicky" and repetitive just to establish a base functionality, and 2, doesn't work well for those of us doing most entering, creation, editing of midi editors from midi controller. i guess a 3rd reason would be that those of us using a full-screen midi editor on a small laptop screen may hide the media lane and track list by default. (in gif, it's visible to serve as navigation guide to those viewing my licecap)

tldr, i want the midi editor to be able to show all midi in project, but only select/edit all midi in track, regardless of which track item is selected/active.

tldr alternative wording: i want the midi editor to open zoomed to current item contents, but once opened, treat track as if it were 1 big midi item even though it's not. potentially even creating additional midi items if midi data is drawn where no item exists.

Quote:
+ MIDI editor: better resize/zoom/scroll behavior on item selection changes
i see how this is useful to some use cases but i do not prefer this behavior.
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Old 04-12-2018, 06:20 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
EDIT: For those who like the old behavior, perhaps you could offer new mouse modifieres for "Media item left click" and "Media item double click" contexts, which would be "Select item, MIDI: zoom to content" for left click and "MIDI: open in editor and zoom to content, Subprojects: open project, Audio: show media item properties" for double-click?
And when double-clicking on looped items it should zoom in to one loop iteration only and not show the whole item
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Old 04-12-2018, 06:24 AM   #19
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And when double-clicking on looped items it should zoom in to one loop iteration only and not show the whole item
+1 on that
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Old 04-12-2018, 06:24 AM   #20
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+ MIDI editor: better resize/zoom/scroll behavior on item selection changes

An option to turn the new behaviour off cuold be welcome by a lot of users (me).

Or top of item old behaviour and bottom new behaviour.
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Old 04-12-2018, 06:26 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stamp View Post
+ MIDI editor: better resize/zoom/scroll behavior on item selection changes

An option to turn the new behaviour off cuold be welcome by a lot of users (me).

Or top of item old behaviour and bottom new behaviour.
Yeah, if anything, the new behaviour should get the new options not the old one that got used by hundreds of people.
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Old 04-12-2018, 06:36 AM   #22
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also, this seems like a bug:



1, set options to "open all midi in project"
2, create multiple tracks of midi
3, select 1st midi item on 1st track with midi data
4, Item: Open in built-in MIDI editor (set default behavior in preferences)
5, issue: lowest track with midi data is opened with Midi Editor focus
6, expected behavior: midi editor shows all project midi, but midi editor selection opens track with selected midi item.
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Old 04-12-2018, 06:40 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
also, this seems like a bug:
1, set options to "open all midi in project"
2, create multiple tracks of midi
3, select 1st midi item on 1st track with midi data
4, Item: Open in built-in MIDI editor (set default behavior in preferences)
5, issue: lowest track with midi data is opened with Midi Editor focus
6, expected behavior: midi editor shows all project midi, but midi editor selection opens track with selected midi item.
Just run into that last night.
It selects and opens the last midi item on the last track
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Old 04-12-2018, 06:48 AM   #24
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maybe part of the same issue:



NOTE: this also occurs with the default "open item in midi editor" action. i've included my custom action contents below because it may be helpful to others, but this issue isn't based on my custom action.

custom action contents:

Code:
sws: show selected track in TCP // if useful track was hidden and user enters via action
view: move edit cursor to play cursor
script: create midi item under edit cursor if none exists.lua
xen/sws: select item under edit cursor
script: openMErunMEaction
-- open selected item in MIDI editor
-- show all note rows
-- hide unused note row
-- select all events
-- zoom to selected notes
-- deselect all
-- zoom to content
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Old 04-12-2018, 07:19 AM   #25
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Something changed in v5.79pre7... CCs used to be sent before notes at the same position but now the notes are put first. For example, while snapped to grid, I can't anymore just put a note + a CC at the same position. For some instruments, the CC must now be written earlier so it can affect the note (which is annoying).



Prior to v5.79pre7:



Now:


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Old 04-12-2018, 07:35 AM   #26
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Quote:
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Something changed in v5.79pre7...
Probably this?
+ MIDI: never sort events based on anything but time position [t=205082]
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:08 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by ovnis View Post
Is it possible to have an option to be able to select and edit notes (LUA, velocity, etc.) which are not inside an activated item ?

Or better : to make all midi items become always activated (inside the midi editor)! In my own working, having to activate an midi item or activated/unactivated items are just a waste of time...
The MIDI editor can have only one Active item, but can have multiple *Editable* items. If an item is editable, you can edit events in them like the active item (but cannot insert new notes or CCs). In the track list, you can see and change the items' four possible state: Active, Editable, Visible, Hidden.

The MIDI editor also has other option (in the menu or right-click on the track list): "Draw and edit CC events on all tracks" / "Edit CC events on all tracks".

In the case of Lua scripts, you are unfortunately out of luck. Lua scripts cannot get or set the list of editable or visible items -- except by using a slow workaround that is not always reliable -- so scripts cannot easily be used to edit any takes other than the active take. Please support the Feature Request: Functions to get and set editable/visible state of takes in MIDI editor.
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:28 AM   #28
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Faraway out-of-view items can be activated in several different ways, and the most appropriate zoom/scroll/move to the new item will probably depend on how it was activated:
* Activating a track that contains multiple items via the Track List
* Activating an individual item via the Track List
* Selecting an item in the arrange view

EDIT: Perhaps switching via arrange view van use never-zoom by default (scroll to edit cursor), switching via the track list can use auto-zoom (to last-used zoom/position).

Last edited by juliansader; 04-12-2018 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:41 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
i mentioned this in the pre10 thread, but to rephrase, selecting all items on tracks works at first, but not after activating subsequent items in the midi editor via double click. such doings result in loss of full-track editability, as seen below.

This is weird. When you double-click an item, another item loses editability. Is this due to some setting, or is it a bug?

Last edited by juliansader; 04-12-2018 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:48 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
EDIT: Perhaps switching via arrange view van use never-zoom by default (scroll to edit cursor), switching via the track list can use auto-zoom (to last-used zoom/position).
Yeah, perhaps.
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:25 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
This is weird. When you double-click an item, another item loses editability. Is this due to some setting, or is it a bug?
Not only that, but you can't prevent last item from being left Editable. Don't think dependent on settings. Maybe not a definite bug but bothers me more than some things that definitely are. I reported it in casa de nitpick midi sticky. Another user from Russia has a thread a day or two ago in bug reports.

I find it hard to maintain Visible only workflow. I don't really want selection linked to either visibility or editabilty. Or selection follows changes in midi editor. Open items stay open visible only. Can add items to midi editor by opening them. Like prior to track list.

I do like multi item editing occasionally, but don't have issues making it so, just preventing it. This doesn't apply to things the ME can't do or scripts. I support that request to get the editable items, etc.
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:25 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
This is weird. When you double-click an item, another item loses editability. Is this due to some setting, or is it a bug?
context:


it looks like i am the opposite of FnA. i want all items on track editable, visible, "active," etc all of the time, while remaining separate items so that i can zoom to content while entering them
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:45 AM   #33
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I'm fixing a ton of weird behaviors/issues for the next build, hopefully it will address most of the (often differing) issues people have above. I haven't added any new options, but I've made the existing options work better, from what I can tell.. anyway stay tuned for the next few minutes and pre13 will be along.
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:51 AM   #34
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A very annoying bug. the note moves somewhere =)
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:53 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin View Post
I'm fixing a ton of weird behaviors/issues for the next build, hopefully it will address most of the (often differing) issues people have above. I haven't added any new options, but I've made the existing options work better, from what I can tell.. anyway stay tuned for the next few minutes and pre13 will be along.
Justin, thank you so very much for doing these quality-of-life improvements!
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Old 04-12-2018, 10:17 AM   #36
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Thanks!
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