Old 05-25-2020, 11:59 PM   #1
Joe90
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Default v6.11+dev0525a - May 25 2020

v6.11+dev0525a - May 25 2020
+ Area selection: add action to duplicate area selection
+ Metadata: support embedding APEv2 tags in Wavpack files
+ ReaEQ: reduce CPU use
+ ReaVerbate: reduce CPU use
+ Wavpack: display metadata in source properties dialog
# Area Selection: prevent creating selections that start at negative times
# Area selection: improve paste behavior when the area selection contains empty space
# Area selection: improve some behaviors when moving an area selection on a single envelope
# Area selection: only support top/bottom edge edit at the top and bottom of contiguous areas
# Area selection: snap to visible grid if configured
# Custom actions: fix bugs with keyboard support

This thread is for pre-release discussion. Please post other requests in the Feature Requests forum.

Full changelog / Latest pre-releases
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Old 05-26-2020, 12:05 AM   #2
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Quote:
v6.11+dev0525a - May 25 2020
+ Area selection: add action to duplicate area selection
+ Metadata: support embedding APEv2 tags in Wavpack files
+ ReaEQ: reduce CPU use
+ ReaVerbate: reduce CPU use
+ Wavpack: display metadata in source properties dialog
# Area Selection: prevent creating selections that start at negative times
# Area selection: improve paste behavior when the area selection contains empty space
# Area selection: improve some behaviors when moving an area selection on a single envelope
# Area selection: only support top/bottom edge edit at the top and bottom of contiguous areas
# Area selection: snap to visible grid if configured
# Custom actions: fix bugs with keyboard support
Thanks!

I must say again, Area selection is amazing. Very intuitive on a Wacom Cintiq, too, when pencil button is set to right click.

With current level of UI intuitiveness, plus scripting and customization, I'd say REAPER is now the Photoshop of DAWs - and with much better licensing terms.
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Old 05-26-2020, 12:17 AM   #3
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Lots of fixes here!

Is envelope editing support (modifiers) planed?

Move envelope segment in area etc

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Old 05-26-2020, 12:18 AM   #4
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Duplicating area of items into automation items on envelopes does not seem to replace automation items:
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Old 05-26-2020, 12:25 AM   #5
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Starting an area selection, then releasing the modifier seems to fallback to doing area selection the old way:

I am not sure if this is intended, but it is a bit odd to use as it distrupts our previous time selection if we accidentally release the key.
I believe it would be better to use if we could release the modifier after we start drawing an area and still be able to draw it until we release the mouse.



Edit: As mentioned by Joe90 it is
* Reverting the area back to a marquee
* Triggering right drag modifier (which is set to time selection in my case)

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Old 05-26-2020, 12:37 AM   #6
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Quote:
# Area selection: only support top/bottom edge edit at the top and bottom of contiguous areas
Thanks! I believe this is a step in the right direction. However when making big area selections we still have quite a bit of bright horizontal lines in our vision: (Currently the horizontal lines are also thicker than the outline of all areas combined as the outlines from multiple tracks stack)

Rendering horizontally aligned areas as a single contiguous rectangle would improve visibility a lot.

An Area Selection -------> Left Drag context modifier to swipe through tracks in the area to remove them from the area would also be very helpful instead of just relying on top/bottom edges to trim.
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Old 05-26-2020, 12:42 AM   #7
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From the implementation point of view it is impossible to get left drag draw?

Left is used for editing so it does not conflict with move and the rest of modifiers?
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Old 05-26-2020, 12:46 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdBird View Post
An Area Selection -------> Left Drag context modifier to swipe through tracks in the area to remove them from the area would also be very helpful instead of just relying on top/bottom edges to trim.
Makes sense!
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Old 05-26-2020, 12:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdBird View Post
Rendering horizontally aligned areas as a single contiguous rectangle would improve visibility a lot..
I believe it won't be possible by the way its implemented. It creates multiple areas per track on the fly. One giant area = multiple per track areas.
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Old 05-26-2020, 12:51 AM   #10
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It's just deciding which pixels to draw, which not... it should be possible Reaper would internally still know what was selected within that main rectangle, it just doesn't need to draw it out.
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Old 05-26-2020, 12:54 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by BirdBird View Post
Starting an area selection, then releasing the modifier seems to fallback to doing area selection the old way:

I am not sure if this is intended, but it is a bit odd to use as it distrupts our previous time selection if we accidentally release the key.
I believe it would be better to use if we could release the modifier after we start drawing an area and still be able to draw it until we release the mouse.
Is this not related to the modifier you have assigned for area selection and time selection? I'm using ctrl+shift+right drag for A.S now, and when I release the modifier it just turns from an area selected window to a standard marquee selected window as you'd expect. Time selection does not change.

Side note - I particularly like that you can marquee select an area using normal right drag, THEN hit the area selection modifier and grab it as an area quickly, that's nice. And it's satisfying with snap on when you see that A.S box snap into place as soon as you hit the shortcut. That is an improvement over other A.S implementations I've used.
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Old 05-26-2020, 12:55 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
It's just deciding which pixels to draw, which not... it should be possible Reaper would internally still know what was selected within that main rectangle, it just doesn't need to draw it out.

Everything is possible just a matter how much core needs to change

Last edited by Sexan; 05-26-2020 at 01:00 AM.
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Old 05-26-2020, 01:06 AM   #13
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Yeah I mean... Studio One:

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Old 05-26-2020, 01:09 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Is this not related to the modifier you have assigned for area selection and time selection? I'm using ctrl+shift+right drag for A.S now, and when I release the modifier it just turns from an area selected window to a standard marquee selected window as you'd expect. Time selection does not change.

Side note - I particularly like that you can marquee select an area using normal right drag, THEN hit the area selection modifier and grab it as an area quickly, that's nice. And it's satisfying with snap on when you see that A.S box snap into place as soon as you hit the shortcut. That is an improvement over other A.S implementations I've used.
Thanks! With your help I have figured out what is going on
Releasing area selection modifier turns the area back into marquee selection, but also triggers the modifier assigned. So in my case it was falling back to marquee + triggering time selection since it is my right drag modifier. (I don't have marquee select on right drag)
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Old 05-26-2020, 01:15 AM   #15
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Can we have some visual feedback what we are copying? Its weird ATM since we need to click for paste destination but then areas are cleared, especially when empty spaces are included. Or can it be like duplicate so the area goes to destination on paste? One of the reasons I've made copy mode is to overcome this issue, when you have different areas across the place you do not know where the paste will land

Paste under mouse cursor would be nice

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Old 05-26-2020, 01:51 AM   #16
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Well my friend Birdy found this:



And this would be nice for normal paste. It happens when you make a copie then cut and paste
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:15 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n997 View Post
Thanks!

I must say again, Area selection is amazing. Very intuitive on a Wacom Cintiq, too, when pencil button is set to right click.

With current level of UI intuitiveness, plus scripting and customization, I'd say REAPER is now the Photoshop of DAWs - and with much better licensing terms.
Can you give a few examples how and when you are using area selection, in which cases it can be especially useful, of course giving precise examples, not abstract terms, we all know already.
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:31 AM   #18
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Can you give a few examples how and when you are using area selection, in which cases it can be especially useful, of course giving precise examples, not abstract terms, we all know already.
The main function people use it for is quick editing of a grid selected 'block' of items.

Say you've edited your drums on chorus 1 and want to fly them over to chorus 2, its now very easy to just grab the lot of them in one swift selection and move them over. Beforehand you had to make a marquee/time selection drag (which is a bit fiddly and easy to miss-select items around the edges) or you could make a time selection, select the all the drum tracks and run an action to select everything on the selected tracks within the time selection, then do your copying/pasting/deleting/duplicating etc. You'd also need to make sure you deleted the drum parts you were planning to replace, which involves all that same fiddly time selection/item selection stuff I just mentioned. It's error prone, especially if you work with lots of small items.

This is just - draw a box around what you want, perform the function, and everything that you can see confined to that box is effected by that function.

Editing multiple different envelopes/media items together is another function A.S provides, and we all know this has not been super easy in Reaper up until now.

Also, copying items via time selection didn't work as you would expect with unsnapped time selections and relative grid mode. It does with A.S.

Also, if they decide to flesh it out then A.S could be an excellent envelope editing tool - potentially much quicker and more intuitive for quick moves than the current system.
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:43 AM   #19
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Hi Devs

I think we need two seperate actions for split item at area/time selection

because right know it's buggy

see here :
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mc...ZAqY9MpF-fhl-7

EDIT : and, for consistency, i think we need all the action for time selection to be duplicate and fous on area

example : Envelope: Insert 4 envelope points at time selection
Item: Fit items to time selection, padding with silence if needed
Item: Remove all stretch markers in time selection
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:51 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reno.thestraws View Post
EDIT : and, for consistency, i think we need all the action for time selection to be duplicate and fous on area
Absolutely +1

Maybe add priority to Areas so if there is no area actions apply to Time selection so they do not clash.

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Old 05-26-2020, 02:58 AM   #21
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When selecting multiple areas and using duplicate the areas go out of sync:


It should determine the length of the dupe by looking at the leftmost and rightmost areas instead of duplicating everything seperately.
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:59 AM   #22
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If it's not giving away any secrets, how was CPU use reduced for ReaEQ and ReaVerbate?
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Old 05-26-2020, 03:02 AM   #23
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Default Linking time selection to area selection?

What do people think of having an option to link time selection to area selection? Or new modifiers to move them together?

I have a bunch of actions that are linked to time selection (as I'm sure we all do), i.e this (you can't see the time selection very clearly because of the gif quality, sorry) -



This is an envelope nudger based on time selection that I have assigned to mouse modifiers+double click in the envelope lane. It's not the best example, because for this kind of thing I know we'd rather have the full on envelope editing that Sexan showed in his gif above (or imagine something like Julian's multitool, with that super powerful envelope editing functionality he's created, but accessible via A.S on the main arrange page envelopes... killer!).

It strikes me however that many of these time selection based functions will be things I'd rather do with area selection from now on. If we had a way to have time selection follow area selection (or a new set of modifiers for moving area selection and time selection together) then it could save us assigning a whole new bunch of separate actions to do all these things with area selection that we're currently doing with time selection.

There might be a glaringly obvious reason why this won't work. If there is, I'm sure someone will let me know .
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Old 05-26-2020, 03:03 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdBird View Post
When selecting multiple areas and using duplicate the areas go out of sync:


It should determine the length of the dupe by looking at the leftmost and rightmost areas instead of duplicating everything seperately.
Agreed. +1
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Old 05-26-2020, 03:04 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
What do people think of having an option to link time selection to area selection? Or new modifiers to move them together?

I have a bunch of actions that are linked to time selection (as I'm sure we all do)
I think they should work for time selection if exists. If not, use area selection instead.
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Old 05-26-2020, 03:18 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdBird View Post
When selecting multiple areas and using duplicate the areas go out of sync:


It should determine the length of the dupe by looking at the leftmost and rightmost areas instead of duplicating everything seperately.
I disagree To correctly copy the bottom two items, you must EXACTLY also draw an area selection (4 measures/bars long). Otherwise, it seems to me that the correct algorithm will turn out to be very complicated (if possible)
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Old 05-26-2020, 03:33 AM   #27
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I disagree To correctly copy the bottom two items, you must EXACTLY also draw an area selection (4 measures/bars long). Otherwise, it seems to me that the correct algorithm will turn out to be very complicated (if possible)
It is not complicated. You just calculate the offset of the dupe by looking at the furthest area end, and the smallest area start for all areas instead of doing it seperately for each area. The current behaviour is good for a very rare usecase (polyrhythms) however for most cases you do want the areas to stay in sync, as the areas move together by default as well. My example was perhaps not very good, here is a much better one:

In this case for example, you draw multiple areas because you don't want everything to be duped, just specific things out of multiple tracks. So making the extra areas cover the entire 4 measures wouldn't work.
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Old 05-26-2020, 03:41 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa
If you have an area that contains empty space and you move it somewhere, that means you want empty space there.
i think i don't agree that this is always the case ^ and would like an option to not have empty area-selected space trim whatever it gets pasted on. happy to be convinced otherwise, but i foresee complex selections that i'm trying to merge with later portions of projects without obliterating the target area

particularly when existing AI aren't trimmed when pasting empty space, seems we need to either commit to either [trim, or not trim] or [option]


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Old 05-26-2020, 03:42 AM   #29
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The area selection crosses the timeline even if the top track is the first one in the arrange. This can be irritating for the user, since he assumes there are more tracks at the top.

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Old 05-26-2020, 03:50 AM   #30
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a mouse modifiers page observation: time to alphabetize this drop-down menu. there's a LOT of entries and it's not easy/quick to find what you're looking for.

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Old 05-26-2020, 03:54 AM   #31
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i think i don't agree that this is always the case ^ and would like an option to not have empty area-selected space trim whatever it gets pasted on. happy to be convinced otherwise, but i foresee complex selections that i'm trying to merge with later portions of projects without obliterating the target area

particularly when existing AI aren't trimmed when pasting empty space, seems we need to either commit to either [trim, or not trim] or [option]

Why would you do that? What is the use case?
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Old 05-26-2020, 03:56 AM   #32
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Why would you do that? What is the use case?
^ complex selections that i'm trying to merge with later portions of projects without obliterating the target area
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Old 05-26-2020, 03:57 AM   #33
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i think i don't agree that this is always the case ^ and would like an option to not have empty area-selected space trim whatever it gets pasted on. happy to be convinced otherwise, but i foresee complex selections that i'm trying to merge with later portions of projects without obliterating the target area
My opinion (and that's all it is) is that area selection is not the best tool for merging areas, and it's not a good idea to treat it as such. At least that's been the case in any DAW I've used that has area selection.

The whole point of area selection is what you see is what you get - if you copy an area from one place to another it should be an exact copy of the original area. The copying of blank spaces is one of the biggest advantages of drag copying A.S over drag copying a time selection with marqueed items (which is what I would personally use to accomplish the type of merging you're describing).

We want those blank spaces, they mean that you don't need to pay any attention to the area you're copying TO, only the area you're copying FROM, which makes it super easy to fly large, complex chunks of items around with ease.

If it's an optional modifier then I guess everyone's happy, but I wouldn't personally consider it a priority.
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Old 05-26-2020, 03:59 AM   #34
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if we have enable "Options: Trim content behind automation items when editing or writing automation," expected behavior would be to not see the AI "stacking" when dragging over each other:

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Old 05-26-2020, 04:02 AM   #35
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Not sure if this is a bug.

What you see in that video:

1. I'm creating an AS over an envelope and delete it, works as expected: the data in the area is deleted

2. I'm resizing the envelope, when I now hit delete, the whole envelope is deleted. Apparently the focus change ignores the area selection. Left clicking on the AS before deleting will re-engage the focus.

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Old 05-26-2020, 04:03 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney View Post
if we have enable "Options: Trim content behind automation items when editing or writing automation," expected behavior would be to not see the AI "stacking" when dragging over each other

Yeah that seem to be inconsistent with the rest of the behavior
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Old 05-26-2020, 04:06 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
The whole point of area selection is what you see is what you get - if you copy an area from one place to another it should be an exact copy of the original area. ...

We want those blank spaces, they mean that you don't need to pay any attention to the area you're copying TO, only the area you're copying FROM, which makes it super easy to fly large, complex chunks of items around with ease.
i agree with this as the default for sure, but i'm seeing scenarios where AS containing pickups, strummed chords, and other elements that don't start at a downbeat will trim unwantedly. EDIT: (as non-default option) i'd expect ITEMs to trim items, but not empty space to trim items

Quote:
The copying of blank spaces is one of the biggest advantages of drag copying A.S over drag copying a time selection with marqueed items (which is what I would personally use to accomplish the type of merging you're describing).
then it seems to me that we're missing one the key functionality of being able to move multiple non-adjoining marqueed lasso selections
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Old 05-26-2020, 04:10 AM   #38
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Resizing tracks oddness:



When resizing envelope hiting del nothing happens
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Old 05-26-2020, 04:11 AM   #39
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Hi devs, since ReaEQ is currently in the optimization cycle:

It would be nice if we could get an HQ option here with de-cramped filters. Thanks
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Old 05-26-2020, 04:22 AM   #40
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overall, this is incredible work - i'm really impressed. this isn't lit, this is luminary.

you have clearly researched this feature HARD, trudging through pages of emotional debate and coming out the other side with a very solid understanding and grasp of the FR. well done.
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