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Old 05-27-2020, 11:45 PM   #1
cohler
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Default Paste items 40058 not behaving correctly in 6.11

The behavior of the Paste Items command (40058) has changed in REAPER 6.11.

In all previous versions of REAPER, 40058 pastes copied selections into the selected tracks whether or not the selected tracks are adjacent.

In 6.11, 40058 pastes copied selections into adjacent tracks whether or not those tracks are selected.

THIS IS A MAJOR BUG.
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Old 05-28-2020, 05:50 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cohler View Post
The behavior of the Paste Items command (40058) has changed in REAPER 6.11.

In all previous versions of REAPER, 40058 pastes copied selections into the selected tracks whether or not the selected tracks are adjacent.

In 6.11, 40058 pastes copied selections into adjacent tracks whether or not those tracks are selected.

THIS IS A MAJOR BUG.
Here is before and after execution of REAPER internal command 40058 in REAPER 6.10 and 6.11 (OSX64 - Mac OSX 10.13.6) executing on the exact same RPP file, and running the exact same code.

Lua Code



REAPER 6.10 - CORRECT



REAPER 6.11 - INCORRECT

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Old 05-30-2020, 01:33 PM   #3
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Can you post a minimal test project with steps to duplicate? What command are you using to copy the items?
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Old 05-30-2020, 03:24 PM   #4
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Can you post a minimal test project with steps to duplicate? What command are you using to copy the items?
I posted the code above.

All you need to know is the state of track selection before and after the execution of 40058 as shown in the GIFs above.

That completely defines the bug and is easily reproducible exactly as I've shown above.
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Old 05-30-2020, 04:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cohler View Post
I posted the code above.

All you need to know is the state of track selection before and after the execution of 40058 as shown in the GIFs above.

That completely defines the bug and is easily reproducible exactly as I've shown above.
We're not able to reproduce this. Based on what you wrote, it seems like the paste in this screencap would not work as expected, but it does:



It would be helpful if you could provide or describe a minimal project that reproduces the problem.
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Old 05-30-2020, 04:16 PM   #6
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We're not able to reproduce this. Based on what you wrote, it seems like the paste in this screencap would not work as expected, but it does:



It would be helpful if you could provide or describe a minimal project that reproduces the problem.
Ok, will do.
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Old 05-30-2020, 06:36 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
It would be helpful if you could provide or describe a minimal project that reproduces the problem.
I have simplified this as much as possible, and am showing plain vanilla REAPER copy and paste commands in plain vanilla versions of REAPER 6.10 and 6.11.

Explanation
  • There are 8 tracks here.
  • The 7th track is invisible in TCP.
  • A grouped item on tracks 5, 6, and 8 is copied, and then
  • pasted starting at track 1.

In 6.10 and all prior versions, it goes into tracks 1, 2, and 4 which is correct.

In 6.11, it goes into tracks 1, 2, and 3 which is incorrect.

Here is the correct behavior from 6.10 and all prior versions:




Here is the incorrect behavior in 6.11:




Please fix this bug and restore the long-standing behavior of this core functionality as soon as possible (I can't imagine any command more core than the Paste function), because beside the fact that the current behavior breaks all software ever written depending on the long-standing behavior, it also makes it difficult to do multi-track audio editing.

And PLEASE don't give me the lecture about not depending on undocumented features, unintended, intended, yada yada... Please just fix the bug.

Thank you for your rapid response on this.
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Old 05-30-2020, 08:15 PM   #8
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Code:
REAPER 6.11

+ Media Items: properly account for hidden tracks when cut/copy/pasting items from/to multiple tracks

This was an intentional change. The previous behavior was inconsistent in the following way.

Track 1 visible
Track 2 visible
track 3 visible
track 4 hidden
track 5 visible

Items copied from tracks 1 and 2 would paste to tracks 3 and 5, but items copied from tracks 3 and 5 would paste to tracks 1 and 3. In other words, hidden tracks were previously accounted for when copying, but not accounted for when pasting. Now they are accounted for on both sides -- what you see when you copy is what you see when you paste.

As this conversation proceeds, I hope that you will remember that discussions do not need to be fights, and explanations do not need to be accusations.
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Old 05-30-2020, 08:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Code:
REAPER 6.11

+ Media Items: properly account for hidden tracks when cut/copy/pasting items from/to multiple tracks

This was an intentional change. The previous behavior was inconsistent in the following way.

Track 1 visible
Track 2 visible
track 3 visible
track 4 hidden
track 5 visible

Items copied from tracks 1 and 2 would paste to tracks 3 and 5, but items copied from tracks 3 and 5 would paste to tracks 1 and 3. In other words, hidden tracks were previously accounted for when copying, but not accounted for when pasting. Now they are accounted for on both sides -- what you see when you copy is what you see when you paste.

As this conversation proceeds, I hope that you will remember that discussions do not need to be fights, and explanations do not need to be accusations.
It is wrong, by definition. It is not what has been done for ALL PRIOR VERSIONS.

And whether you can rationalize it in some strange way, is not relevant. It is still wrong.

You unilaterally changed the fundamental core behavior of one of the most critical functions without so much as a notice to your thousands of users.

You don't see a problem with that?

I can give you a thousand rationalizations why it is wrong for every one of yours as to why it is right.

But neither is relevant.

What is relevant is YOU CHANGED THE LONG STANDING BEHAVIOR OF A CORE FUNCTION.

Do you not see the problem with that??

How are developers supposed to write software for your system if you willy nilly change the behavior of core functionality?

Sadly, this is how I expected you to respond...

The release note "properly account" perhaps should read "after 15 years, we changed our mind, and so we're changing the core functionality..."

And now, if I rewrite my system to account for your random change, will you guarantee me that on a whim you won't change it back in a few months also unannounced?

Tracks are tracks whether they are hidden or not. In multitrack editing, the PRIMARY use of hidden tracks is for folder tracks which don't hold audio. Whether or not they happen to be visible at any moment is irrelevant, what is relevant is which tracks have audio in them, not which ones are visible or invisible.

The prior behavior was correct. The current behavior is miserably incorrect, and renders the paste function essentially useless for multitrack purposes now.
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Last edited by cohler; 05-30-2020 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 05-30-2020, 09:11 PM   #10
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The new behavior is correct, and more useful, and is consistent with considerable other functionality. You should update your software for the new behavior (or if you do not wish to be dependent on the exact behaviors of a particular action, you can manually add/move/copy items using ReaScript or the extension API).
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Old 05-31-2020, 04:23 AM   #11
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The new behavior is correct, and more useful, and is consistent with considerable other functionality. You should update your software for the new behavior (or if you do not wish to be dependent on the exact behaviors of a particular action, you can manually add/move/copy items using ReaScript or the extension API).
I guess you are leaving us no choice. Anyone who has ever written software depending on your Paste command will have to rewrite at this point.

You might consider a notice to your user base about such a major change.

The new behavior certainly is not "consistent" with uses made by anyone who has ever used it before, because it is unarguably different.

So are you saying here that the behavior of all of your published and well-defined Actions, including even the most central ones (like cut and paste etc...), are subject to, or likely to, undergo redefinition at any time without notice to, or consulting with, the user base?
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Old 05-31-2020, 06:49 AM   #12
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Thank you for your input, it has been noted.
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Old 05-31-2020, 07:31 AM   #13
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Thank you for your input, it has been noted.
Thank you, but what about my question?

Are you saying here that the behavior of all of your published and well-defined Actions, including even the most central ones (like cut and paste etc...), are subject to, or likely to, undergo redefinition at any time?
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Old 05-31-2020, 07:45 AM   #14
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Thank you for your input, it has been noted.
Would you consider creating a new action that still does what the old 40058 did unchanged?

Or leave 40058 unchanged and create a new action that has the new behavior.

Either would make life a lot simpler for a lot of users.
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Old 05-31-2020, 08:46 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by cohler View Post
Would you consider creating a new action that still does what the old 40058 did unchanged?

Or leave 40058 unchanged and create a new action that has the new behavior.

Either would make life a lot simpler for a lot of users.
That is a reasonable request and we will look at implementing it.
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Old 05-31-2020, 08:52 AM   #16
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That is a reasonable request and we will look at implementing it.
Thank you. Please let me know as soon as it is available.

Should be simple and quick to just make a copy of the previous code for 40058.
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Old 06-06-2020, 04:45 AM   #17
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Quote:
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That is a reasonable request and we will look at implementing it.
Any update on when the previously existing functionality of 40058 will be available again? (either in a new function or in 40058)
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Old 06-06-2020, 06:05 AM   #18
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This is done in the 6.11+dev0603 prerelease and later builds. The official 6.12 build may be in about two weeks.

+ Actions: create separate actions to paste items ignoring hidden tracks (wysiwyg) or using the pre-6.11 handling of hidden tracks, wysiwyg version is the default [p=2297051]
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Old 06-06-2020, 06:06 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
This is done in the 6.11+dev0603 prerelease and later builds. The official 6.12 build may be in about two weeks.

+ Actions: create separate actions to paste items ignoring hidden tracks (wysiwyg) or using the pre-6.11 handling of hidden tracks, wysiwyg version is the default [p=2297051]
Great thanks.
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