Old 11-13-2020, 04:28 PM   #1
Dork Lard
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Default That glorious modern rock/metal bass guitar tone

I've been trying a few different software sims and they're not bad, but let's say I get as good a sim as there is, what processing moves would you make to it ? I've noticed a lot of bands boost that 60hz area so that's the sub bass, but have found myself the two most significant moves in the lows was a boost at 120hz where the bass gets a harder more present bass boost, and then 250hz to get a bit of those low mids up to contrast with the guitars and give the bass some of that throaty presence (and then of course a few moves in the highs for pick attack). Then some comp and transient shaping. But I'm getting avg results, not glorious yet.

I want that beautiful tight low end that sounds so controlled and tamed yet lush. How do I achieve that ?
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Old 11-21-2020, 08:58 AM   #2
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put a HPF at 50Hz

boost at 125Hz and 300-400Hz
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Old 11-21-2020, 03:54 PM   #3
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put a HPF at 50Hz

boost at 125Hz and 300-400Hz
haha from "Bazzbass" himself. Yeah from my experience mixing I'm a bit wary of that 300-400hz area in particular, horrified of it before now just weary. I'll give that a try. I found even the 250hz zone mentioned in the OP still adds a bit of cardboardiness to the bass, as for most instruments, but it makes it appear in the mix so maybe just a couple db boost, not a big 4 db move there. My gtrs are usually purposely a bit hollow around 400hz (scooped) so maybe the bass filling in there...
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Old 12-05-2020, 08:47 AM   #4
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haha from "Bazzbass" himself....
to clarify my authority on bass tone, MY EARS ARE FOOKED FROM 40 YEARS STANDING AT EAR HEIGHT TO ALL THE DRUMMERS' CYMBALS

WHAT? WHO IS SHOUTING?
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Old 12-05-2020, 09:44 AM   #5
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I do not use software sims for bass so I am no help there, but....I do play a bass in all my recordings, and have found that to lessen mud and an overly booming bottom (which is my biggest fear), I need to pull 'em down a few dbs somewhere in the 175 to 300 Hz range, boosting in the 80 to 120 range to enrich depth and size, and then again anywhere from 500 to 1.5 kHz or so to add clarity. Song, style and instrument dependent. Of course, this is all IMO as musical taste is one of the most diverse flavors we have :-)
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Old 12-11-2020, 05:06 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Bazzbass View Post
to clarify my authority on bass tone, MY EARS ARE FOOKED FROM 40 YEARS STANDING AT EAR HEIGHT TO ALL THE DRUMMERS' CYMBALS

WHAT? WHO IS SHOUTING?
Me too! My left ear is really bad... 70dBhl. Right one not so much, but I used to stand way too close to drummers, too.


It`s a bass player thang....
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Old 12-11-2020, 12:07 PM   #7
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for YEARS I was after this 'Creamy Dreamer' pedal Billy Corgan used on Siamese Dream, no internet back then. turned out it's another variation on the classic EH fuzz pedal.

I'm enjoying a JHS Bonsai in front of a JHS Muffaletta for gain. in front of those I have an MXR Phase 95 and a Moger e-lady for flange to widen the tone up.

Ministry used loads of compressors.

dunno what modern rock is anymore.


FWIW... the rest of the pedal board.
end of the chain are Strymon Ola and Flint with a Boss TE2 Terra Echo in between, also all stereo pedals

Sansamp YYZ on the font end for bass, otherwise bypassed.
Ditto Looper on the left channel output for simple looping.
pretty happy with it.

hope to get more with some Amazon $ at Xmas. probably a compressor.


edit - on That Pedal Show they suggest that you need a Fender Mustang to make shoegazer music. there's nothing like it, they tried and I guess insulted a lot of people.

I think this is the video:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oMBAEX3QsA
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Old 12-18-2020, 08:15 PM   #8
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...on That Pedal Show they suggest that you need a Fender Mustang to make shoegazer music.
F. I guess somebody should have told Kevin Shields (or like any of the other OG shoegazers) about 30 years ago. Those pedal dudes are kinda douches anyway TBH. I donít like that word generally, but every once in a while it just fits.
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Old 12-19-2020, 02:30 AM   #9
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F. I guess somebody should have told Kevin Shields (or like any of the other OG shoegazers) about 30 years ago. Those pedal dudes are kinda douches anyway TBH. I donít like that word generally, but every once in a while it just fits.
Reading how Loveless was made blew my mind a bit, if I had describe it from the top of my head it would be "wide and shitload of effects" - for an album that was made with barely any effects and mono-narrow.

(as for the OP I don't know, I always make it too muddy and not just because the strings are two years old)
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Old 12-19-2020, 03:39 AM   #10
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Old 12-19-2020, 09:37 AM   #11
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Quote:
I guess somebody should have told Kevin Shields (or like any of the other OG shoegazers) about 30 years ago. Those pedal dudes are kinda douches anyway TBH. I donít like that word generally, but every once in a while it just fits.
this did not need to be posted.
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Old 12-19-2020, 10:03 AM   #12
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Because itís self-evident and everybody already knows?
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Old 12-21-2020, 03:55 AM   #13
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For that rock solid low end you hear on modern rock and metal stuff, try this:

Duplicate bass track, put both into a folder track. On one copy give it a big (BIG) bell boost around 50hz and then smash the hell out of it with a very fast compressor - FET is ideal. Crush that thing, more dbís of gain reduction than the boost you applied. Now blend it underneath the original and on the folder track compress this blend again but with more conservative settings.

If you like the sound of Andy Wallace mixes (which all have incredible, full, solid and clear low end) then you should also be using lots of volume automation too.
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Old 01-04-2021, 05:17 PM   #14
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LAAATE response, but I returned daily to check for a while and no new post was there so I forgot about the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bazzbass View Post
to clarify my authority on bass tone, MY EARS ARE FOOKED FROM 40 YEARS STANDING AT EAR HEIGHT TO ALL THE DRUMMERS' CYMBALS

WHAT? WHO IS SHOUTING?
fooked ears, ay ? That doesn't sound too good (works on multiple levels. So genius).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggrey View Post
I do not use software sims for bass so I am no help there, but....I do play a bass in all my recordings, and have found that to lessen mud and an overly booming bottom (which is my biggest fear), I need to pull 'em down a few dbs somewhere in the 175 to 300 Hz range, boosting in the 80 to 120 range to enrich depth and size, and then again anywhere from 500 to 1.5 kHz or so to add clarity. Song, style and instrument dependent. Of course, this is all IMO as musical taste is one of the most diverse flavors we have :-)
Yes so, thing about that is: (for a modern rock/metal tone) one notices that getting rid of some of the lower low mids (250-450hz) really improves the tone a whole lot, makes the bass immediately sound sexier and 'more dynamic'. Boosting around 60-120hz I agree with you is a must. But then, past that it's a question of what you want to stick out from the bass. Some will boost higher than the 1k range, will boost around 4-5-6k, even higher for pick attack and loose fret noises. But as far as the thread's focus, I'm wondering how to make the bass have that powerful yet smooth, tight presence in the mix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu View Post
For that rock solid low end you hear on modern rock and metal stuff, try this:

Duplicate bass track, put both into a folder track. On one copy give it a big (BIG) bell boost around 50hz and then smash the hell out of it with a very fast compressor - FET is ideal. Crush that thing, more dbís of gain reduction than the boost you applied. Now blend it underneath the original and on the folder track compress this blend again but with more conservative settings.

If you like the sound of Andy Wallace mixes (which all have incredible, full, solid and clear low end) then you should also be using lots of volume automation too.
Thanks mate. I've attempted to do sth like that: have a LOW bass track that's compressed and smooth, not much attack, and the other is my regular bass gtr with a bit of low end but more note articulation and highs to it.
However I'm not sure I'm getting your "blend" instruction. Blend, like, through sidechain or sth ? Or just keep both bass tracks tucked under the folder ?
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Old 01-04-2021, 05:35 PM   #15
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Frequency bracketing is something I do a lot. Recommended.

The simplest I do is low pass, bringing the top end cut down until I hear it slightly changing the sound, and back off a little, then add a slight peak. Removes the all the top end the bass isnt using at all, and the peak helps it cut thru the mix.

Im not saying my simple version is a solution, but its all information that could help depending on the track one is working on.
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Old 01-05-2021, 02:58 PM   #16
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Frequency bracketing is something I do a lot. Recommended.

The simplest I do is low pass, bringing the top end cut down until I hear it slightly changing the sound, and back off a little, then add a slight peak. Removes the all the top end the bass isnt using at all, and the peak helps it cut thru the mix.

Im not saying my simple version is a solution, but its all information that could help depending on the track one is working on.
boy. That was a mouthful on the part of the youtuber. I'm a bit dizzy now.
And FIVE separately processed Bass DIs huh. Well, if that's what it takes ! Thx for the link.
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Old 01-05-2021, 03:18 PM   #17
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boy. That was a mouthful on the part of the youtuber. I'm a bit dizzy now.
And FIVE separately processed Bass DIs huh. Well, if that's what it takes ! Thx for the link.
I gotta say, I think 5 seems quite excessive, and I've never seen another case like this, but then I'm not immersed in metal

Saying that, I have done 2 or 3 differently processed bass tracks, so maybe 5 isnt that unusual?

Sound on Sound do mix reports from producers and all involved, every month, for different albums. I recall recently a Pigsx7 album making of that was quite illuminating about rock production. Dunno if it'll be useful but if you can find it, maybe it'll give some tips
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Old 01-06-2021, 04:48 PM   #18
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I gotta say, I think 5 seems quite excessive, and I've never seen another case like this, but then I'm not immersed in metal

Saying that, I have done 2 or 3 differently processed bass tracks, so maybe 5 isnt that unusual?

Sound on Sound do mix reports from producers and all involved, every month, for different albums. I recall recently a Pigsx7 album making of that was quite illuminating about rock production. Dunno if it'll be useful but if you can find it, maybe it'll give some tips
mmm. Same. I use a couple. One is the main bass, where all the highs are, with audible articulation and pick attack can be heard blablablah, the second is the subpass. I regularly change my mind and switch there btw a bass guitar and a VST synth. Some basic synth that'll just sustain the long notes enough but bring a bit of detail during the faster parts. And I cannot for the life of me find that perfect balance with the sub-bass track. I'll try to make it very big and the compr like crazy, tweak re-tweak, tweak some more... but in the end I never accomplish that "controlled low end". And it's surely got a bit to do with the surrounding mix and other instruments. Would be suuuper easy to accomplish on a drum n bass song, or RnB. But nnnnoooo, I had to be synth / rock-metal hybrid where the bass is a little awkward.
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Old 01-06-2021, 05:05 PM   #19
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I gotta say, I think 5 seems quite excessive, and I've never seen another case like this, but then I'm not immersed in metal
Just to chime in, that isn't some super secret way to get great metal bass tones. It's an example of not having any vision before the tracks are recorded and trying to decide everything after the fact, or just lack of experience in knowing what something is going to sound like beforehand. I don't care who does it.

The main exception is when the person doing the recording isn't involved in any of the decision making and they are taking all these extra tracks because they simply don't know. That should not be the case for any of us because we are the ones both doing the recording, having the vision (hopefully) and making all the decisions.
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Old 01-06-2021, 06:21 PM   #20
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mmm. Same. I use a couple. One is the main bass, where all the highs are, with audible articulation and pick attack can be heard blablablah, the second is the subpass. I regularly change my mind and switch there btw a bass guitar and a VST synth. Some basic synth that'll just sustain the long notes enough but bring a bit of detail during the faster parts. And I cannot for the life of me find that perfect balance with the sub-bass track. I'll try to make it very big and the compr like crazy, tweak re-tweak, tweak some more... but in the end I never accomplish that "controlled low end". And it's surely got a bit to do with the surrounding mix and other instruments. Would be suuuper easy to accomplish on a drum n bass song, or RnB. But nnnnoooo, I had to be synth / rock-metal hybrid where the bass is a little awkward.
Def find those albums that have a remotely similar sound to what youre after and read every thing on how they were made.

Gotta say tho, we are maybe back to your other thread. The thing youre having so much trouble with is the thing that bass traps are there to help with, and the thing that I personally had all my issues with. Chasing your own tail because you cant trust your ears or your speakers because of the room youre in.

Same as the other thread, I dont know your room, but its a very common problem with no treatment in those room corners.
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Old 01-07-2021, 03:22 AM   #21
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Just to chime in, that isn't some super secret way to get great metal bass tones. It's an example of not having any vision before the tracks are recorded and trying to decide everything after the fact, or just lack of experience in knowing what something is going to sound like beforehand. I don't care who does it.

The main exception is when the person doing the recording isn't involved in any of the decision making and they are taking all these extra tracks because they simply don't know. That should not be the case for any of us because we are the ones both doing the recording, having the vision (hopefully) and making all the decisions.
I too have attention span problems, but even without watching the entire vid I'd guess with 99% probability this dude layers the same DI track five times with different processing. It seems to be common in modern metal, there's four bass tracks like this on Archspire's Relentless Mutation, at least three on Textures Drawing Circles (I think they ran one through guitar amp or something) etc.
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Old 01-07-2021, 05:11 AM   #22
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I guess copies of the same track is mildly different then.
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